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[theclosetfan]

I read through the whole Steele Dossier with the idea that Russia also bankrolled it. All of the sudden what it does say and what it doesn't say is more interesting. The vague dates and certain names being kept anonymous, no mention of the meeting at Trump tower. The Trump Jr. meeting matches up with the timeline of what source D says regarding the Trump campaign receiving "very helpful" information in June 2016. Is source D Goldstone or Agalarov? It looks like this is actually being reported:

http://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/07/18/trumps-buddy-aras-agalarov-in-the-steele-dossier/

Then we have Grassley requesting every documented interaction between Trump and the names in the dossier:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3897968-2017-07-19-CEG-DF-to-Donald-Trump-Jr-Document.html

So it's very obvious parts of the dossier have been corroborated. Grassley even mentioned Akhmetshin back in April relating to Fusion Gps:

https://www.grassley.senate.gov/new...ation-fbi’s-inconsistent-info-dossier-inquiry

If the Trump Jr. and Russia meeting was news to this committee and they were already looking at Akhmetshin then WTF is going on? Trump's team has been trying to say this is all the work of the democrats and to tie the Magnitsky repeal and the Dossier together for that purpose. This is suspect to me because if that was the case they would have been upfront about this meeting occurring in the first place.

With the knowledge that Russia funded both the Dossier and gave intelligence to the Trump campaign then it's even more obvious they're playing both sides. Probably trying to force Trump to make moves in their favor by insuring there's a Russian "cloud" over him his entire presidency.

I'm not entirely convinced that Fusion GPS was funded by Russia for all of this. It's very possible they are just mercenaries and do work for whoever pays them. They worked for Russian lobbyists on the Magnitsky stuff, and worked for the GOP donor who commissioned the Steele dossier. Two different clients.

 

[BrassDragon]

One thing I hope is that Mueller already knew all this information. Like I hope the investigation didn't find out about all this information from C-Span.

This is a must watch by everyone, thread title should really focus in on the severity of the revelations.

I'm like in complete awe at all this. How is Trump still in power after all this? The corruption and the links to Russia is so clear and evident.

Edit: this man is a god damn hero.

Mueller can easily ask the intelligence community to confirm Browder's assertions because his testimony is incredibly specific and backed up by detailed documentation on both the business side and even Magnitsky's careful notes on his incarceration.

Several human rights organizations and the Steele dossier managed to confirm parts of his claims without even a fraction of the sources and resources the IC has available.

The Russian disinformation campaign to discredit Browder and Magnitsky is laughably transparent to anyone with a brain.

 

[vsMIC]

mueller is surely on it after announcing to look into trumps finances as well some weeks back. he is following the money ...

 

[SeeThree]

I say fuck the must read article. Watch the must see testimony. It covers everything but has more detail.

Then think about how Trump wants Putin to be his new best friend? He wants to get along better with these people? Lets collect every states voter info (what do you have to hide?) and team up with Russia for the best cyber security of all time?

This motherfucker is beyond compromised.

 

[shiba5]

mueller is surely on it after announcing to look into trumps finances as well some weeks back. he is following the money ...

I liked that the committee was establishing that "following the money" is well within the scope of the Mueller investigation and not an overstep like Trump keeps saying. So if Trump tries to use that excuse to fire Mueller, it's not going to fly.

 

[shiba5]

One of the Russian lawyers that works for Putin to try and lobby to overturn the Maginistky Act was one of the people that was at that one meeting with Don Jr. where they were offering him collusion in the election most likely in return for repealing the Act.

Also, one of the other people, Akhmetshin, was ex-KGB.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

I just don't know how you make this stuff stick with a particular demographic.

They'll always be convinced this is "fake news" and then immediately turn the question to "What about Hillary?" or "Obama's an even bigger crook."

Whoever still supports Trump is truly lost and either has to come to a self realisation of what is happening or is gone from the real world of facts.

His core base will forever be his core base.

So we should stop give a damn what they think and believe. Facts > their precious little trigger-happy feelings. They either choose to live in a fact oriented world or stay in their bubble.

Hillary lost by slim margins. Plenty of non voters out there and people with buyers remorse, to out-vote the delusional crowds of zombified Fox news followers that will never change.

 

[Randy Monk]

There is no doubt that Putin has bankrolled Trump, how the American system is going to handle the whole mess is going to interesting.

 

[mariachi507]

Now I'm watching the testimony, this is unreal. That's what makes it so scary.

 

[Diggler]

Anyone who has Trump supporting family/friends, can you please get them to watch at least the opening 20 mins of this and tell us their reaction.

Ideally the whole thing, but I'm not expecting miracles.

 

[dofry]

Trump wants to be like Putin, that is why he wants to be close to him. For him he's the American Idol.

The problem is, The US is not like Russia, so the papertrails you leave willl be checked. You can't just assassinate dudes. Secondly, Donald is not smart. He wishes and tries to project that but he just isn't Putin-level. He's just too open with himself even though some of the tweets are just a distraction. When compared to Putin, if Putin would ever get angry, he'd just smile, shake your hand, and then would fuck your life up behind the scenes. And no one would know it was him. Except through some speculation. The opposite of Donald. Bonus points also for being physically the opposite

 

[BrassDragon]

Also, one of the other people, Akhmetshin, was ex-KGB.

'Former' GRU to be precise, which is military intelligence - from what we can tell he was involved with counterintelligence and vague law enforcement duties (so he can claim he was technically not a 'spy'). Also the law enforcement angle gives pause when you consider the state-sponsored asset seizing that Browder exposed. Additionally, he is alleged to have run disinformation campaigns as a lobbyist in the US to discredit opponents of his clients and the Putin regime.

Akhmetshin might also have been one of US congressman Dana Rohrabacher's recruiters/handlers.

I fear the rabbit hole goes deeper than just the Trump clique.

 

[shiba5]

'Former' GRU to be precise, which is military intelligence - from what we can tell he was involved with counterintelligence and vague law enforcement duties (so he can claim he was technically not a 'spy'). Also the law enforcement angle gives pause when you consider the state-sponsored asset seizing that Browder exposed. Additionally, he is alleged to have run disinformation campaigns as a lobbyist in the US to discredit opponents of his clients and the Putin regime.

Akhmetshin might also have been one of US congressman Dana Rohrabacher's recruiters/handlers.

I fear the rabbit hole goes deeper than just the Trump clique.

Thanks.
I'm sure he was just there to talk about Russian orphans. /s

Rohrabacher needs to go too.

 

[Windu]

c-span interview http://podcast.c-span.org/podcast/SBBRO0728.mp3

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Whoever still supports Trump is truly lost and either has to come to a self realisation of what is happening or is gone from the real world of facts.

His core base will forever be his core base.

So we should stop give a damn what they think and believe. Facts > their precious little trigger-happy feelings. They either choose to live in a fact oriented world or stay in their bubble.

Hillary lost by slim margins. Plenty of non voters out there and people with buyers remorse, to out-vote the delusional crowds of zombified Fox news followers that will never change.

Dolt 45 is already laying the foundations to turn on any establishment GOP as the "Enemy" to be jeered alongside Soros, Obama, the IC, DEEP STATE, etc.

He's gotten wind of this hearing and along with the healthcare fiasco, is preparing that core for the next round of fucking fantasy land. Watch.

 

[BrassDragon]

c-span interview http://podcast.c-span.org/podcast/SBBRO0728.mp3

Summary of Bill Browder's main points in this interview:

- Dealing with Vladimir Putin requires understanding he is not like other heads of state but rather a criminal running a criminal regime comparable to Pablo Escobar.

- With enrichment as his main goal, Putin has been running different schemes to take money out of the Russian state and its citizens. One example of such a scheme is international pipelines being built for 10 billion USD against a real cost of 1 billion USD.

- Totaling up the profits form all these scams means Putin is likely the wealthiest man in the world

- One reason he has been in power for 17 years is because rising oil prices meant the standard of living in Russia was improving which citizens associate with his authority.

- By 2013, this positive perception was fading and Putin switched to painting his country as besieged by enemies from all sides, within and without and he effectively became a war president (sending military into Ukraine, Syria etc.)

- Putin controls all media and the electorate through ballot stuffing, there is no parliamentary oversight so he is effectively a dictator but his control is tenuous since he has to keep his populace docile.

- Powerful oligarch Michail Chodorkovski was made an example by Putin in 2003 with a very public arrest and corruption trial. The other 22 oligarchs fell in line after this; Browder claims Putin personally demanded 50% of their earnings in exchange for protection.

- There is no rational end goal behind Putin's accumulation of wealth; to stay on top, he has to be richest, always.

- He can't keep these riches in his own name because then it becomes a liability so he created a network of 'oligarch trustees' to hold and spread his money around in the west (banks, hedge funds, trophy properties etc.)

- Short recap of Sergei Magnitsky's investigation into the theft of Browder's Russian holdings and his arrest, torture and death at the hands of the perpetrators.

- After Browder convinced US Congress to pass the Magnitsky Act, Putin was 'apoplectic' and he banned the adoption of Russian orphans by American families in response.

- Browder has taken multiple (secret) security measures to protect himself and his family but the most important one is getting this story out into the world.

- There are 'hundreds of thousands' of Russian businessmen sitting in jail because the state wanted to seize their assets.

- 'If you fight the regime and you're in Russia, there is a pretty good chance you'll die.'

- The average Russian, with no business interests, only sees the positive and nationalist image of Putin offered up by the state media.

- Putin is 'a very small, insecure, angry man' who will hugely overreact to any perceived threat or slight. Browder calls him a sociopath with no understanding of other people's pain.

- Anyone reporting on Putin's two daughters gets arrested so we barely know anything about them or his grandchildren. He has no wife anymore is apparently a loner living in the presidential palace.

- There is no actual relationship between Trump and Putin. The Russian president has a wishlist (end the Magnitsky Act, dismantle NATO and the EU, project military force with impunity) that he would like Trump to acquiesce to; it's unclear what Trump gets out of going along with this and calling Putin a great guy.

- Russia definitely intervened in the 2016 US election, the only question mark is whether it was unilateral or with the cooperation of forces inside the USA.

- Browder is formally a fugitive from Russia and they want they have him extradited so they can put him in a gulag. He is currently under the protection of the UK as a newly minted British citizen.

- Magnitsky's surviving family is living in London and protected.

- Putin's regime, by its very nature, cannot sustain itself indefinitely and must eventually collapse.

 

[shiba5]

Thanks for the summary BrassDragon. Truth is stranger than fiction.
Now I wonder what happens if/when this whole thing gets blown wide open.

 

[weekev]

Thanks for the summary BrassDragon. Truth is stranger than fiction.
Now I wonder what happens if/when this whole thing gets blown wide open.

Yeah man, fuck being anything to do with the Russian government. Sounds like a scary thing to even slightly be associated with. Trump is likely shitting himself permanently.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Summary of Bill Browder's main points in this interview:

- Dealing with Vladimir Putin requires understanding he is not like other heads of state but rather a criminal running a criminal regime comparable to Pablo Escobar.

- With enrichment as his main goal, Putin has been running different schemes to take money out of the Russian state and its citizens. One example of such a scheme is international pipelines being built for 10 billion USD against a real cost of 1 billion USD.

- Totaling up the profits form all these scams means Putin is likely the wealthiest man in the world

- One reason he has been in power for 17 years is because rising oil prices meant the standard of living in Russia was improving which citizens associate with his authority.

- By 2013, this positive perception was fading and Putin switched to painting his country as besieged by enemies from all sides, within and without and he effectively became a war president (sending military into Ukraine, Syria etc.)

- Putin controls all media and the electorate through ballot stuffing, there is no parliamentary oversight so he is effectively a dictator but his control is tenuous since he has to keep his populace docile.

- Powerful oligarch Michail Chodorkovski was made an example by Putin in 2003 with a very public arrest and corruption trial. The other 22 oligarchs fell in line after this; Browder claims Putin personally demanded 50% of their earnings in exchange for protection.

- There is no rational end goal behind Putin's accumulation of wealth; to stay on top, he has to be richest, always.

- He can't keep these riches in his own name because then it becomes a liability so he created a network of 'oligarch trustees' to hold and spread his money around in the west (banks, hedge funds, trophy properties etc.)

- Short recap of Sergei Magnitsky's investigation into the theft of Browder's Russian holdings and his arrest, torture and death at the hands of the perpetrators.

- After Browder convinced US Congress to pass the Magnitsky Act, Putin was 'apoplectic' and he banned the adoption of Russian orphans by American families in response.

- Browder has taken multiple (secret) security measures to protect himself and his family but the most important one is getting this story out into the world.

- There are 'hundreds of thousands' of Russian businessmen sitting in jail because the state wanted to seize their assets.

- 'If you fight the regime and you're in Russia, there is a pretty good chance you'll die.'

- The average Russian, with no business interests, only sees the positive and nationalist image of Putin offered up by the state media.

- Putin is 'a very small, insecure, angry man' who will hugely overreact to any perceived threat or slight. Browder calls him a sociopath with no understanding of other people's pain.

- Anyone reporting on Putin's two daughters gets arrested so we barely know anything about them or his grandchildren. He has no wife anymore is apparently a loner living in the presidential palace.

- There is no actual relationship between Trump and Putin. The Russian president has a wishlist (end the Magnitsky Act, dismantle NATO and the EU, project military force with impunity) that he would like Trump to acquiesce to; it's unclear what Trump gets out of going along with this and calling Putin a great guy. [Morri's guess: Putin has dirt/blackmail material on him, and/or Trump is just really that fucking stupid]

- Russia definitely intervened in the 2016 US election, the only question mark is whether it was unilateral or with the cooperation of forces inside the USA.

- Browder is formally a fugitive from Russia and they want they have him extradited so they can put him in a gulag. He is currently under the protection of the UK as a newly minted British citizen.

- Magnitsky's surviving family is living in London and protected.

- Putin's regime, by its very nature, cannot sustain itself indefinitely and must eventually collapse.

Thank you for this. I highlighted in bold the parts that weren't in the article/written testimony (or at least if they were I forgot...), so this interview seems like it has even more information. I should watch it some time.

 

[Nerazar]

This is the very thing we all should fear. Trump has the same basis and the same logic to everything. He must be checked by every branch on all issues.

And just like with the IS, if Putin and his underlings are hurt (financially), Russia will grow bolder militarily and attack other places or try to arm NK or whatever state they want as an ally. This will be a long and hard battle about everything which we value. The corruption has to be stopped wherever we are.

 

[BrassDragon]

Morri's guess: Putin has dirt/blackmail material on him, and/or Trump is just really that fucking stupid.

You're not wrong on either count but let me introduce a third option: it's all about the money it's all about the dum dum dum dee dum dum. Trump is not a complicated man; my best guess is that his businesses are basically laundromats for one or more of these oligarch trustees. That's why his tax returns and finances are such taboos - they don't hold up to common sense accounting.

As per Eric Trump:

”I said, 'Eric, who's funding? I know no banks — because of the recession, the Great Recession — have touched a golf course. You know, no one's funding any kind of golf construction. It's dead in the water the last four or five years.'" the writer said.

”And this is what he said. He said, 'Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.' I said, 'Really?' And he said, 'Oh, yeah. We've got some guys that really, really love golf, and they're really invested in our programmes. We just go there all the time.'"

So it's basically a triple whammy: he earns dirty Russian money, they can blackmail him with this fact, and he is that fucking stupid to then proceed to run for and win the presidency.

 

[RustyNails]

You're not wrong on either count but let me introduce a third option: it's all about the money it's all about the dum dum dum dee dum dum. Trump is not a complicated man; my best guess is that his businesses are basically laundromats for one or more of these oligarch trustees. That's why his tax returns and finances are such taboos - they don't hold up to common sense accounting.

But isn't IRS supposed to alert authorities if they suspect money laundering? Or launch their own investigation?

 

[rambis]

You're not wrong on either count but let me introduce a third option: it's all about the money it's all about the dum dum dum dee dum dum. Trump is not a complicated man; my best guess is that his businesses are basically laundromats for one or more of these oligarch trustees. That's why his tax returns and finances are such taboos - they don't hold up to common sense accounting.

As per Eric Trump:



So it's basically a triple whammy: he earns dirty Russian money, they can blackmail him with this fact, and he is that fucking stupid to then proceed to run for and win the presidency.

There is no doubt Trumps money tells a story. I remember the leaks now that said Trump was basically only able to obtain loans from Russian oligarch types and it all makes so much sense.

 

[shiba5]

There is no doubt Trumps money tells a story. I remember the leaks now that said Trump was basically only able to obtain loans from Russian oligarch types and it all makes so much sense.

RustyNails has a good question that I've been wondering about as well: Where is the IRS? Aren't they supposed to identify anything suspicious on his taxes and investigate? Does no one look at them?
I think the Trump Org is a big Russian money laundering setup, but maybe it's so hidden, the money trail isn't in his tax returns.

 

[rambis]

RustyNails has a good question that I've been wondering about as well: Where is the IRS? Aren't they supposed to identify anything suspicious on his taxes and investigate? Does no one look at them?
I think the Trump Org is a big Russian money laundering setup, but maybe it's so hidden, the money trail isn't in his tax returns.

Who knows but the remember the IRS has been one of Trumps biggest targets. He has suggested abolishing it before.

 

[BrassDragon]

RustyNails has a good question that I've been wondering about as well: Where is the IRS? Aren't they supposed to identify anything suspicious on his taxes and investigate? Does no one look at them?
I think the Trump Org is a big Russian money laundering setup, but maybe it's so hidden, the money trail isn't in his tax returns.

This may have been happening behind the scenes through the US Treasury's money laundering investigation unit, as we learned a few months ago (can't link the original WSJ source because it's paywalled.)

These cases move always move slowly (see Enron) and the fact that this guy became the GOP's presidential candidate and then the commander in chief must have complicated the matter immensely so I'm not surprised it's all under wraps for now.

 

[shiba5]

This may have been happening behind the scenes through the US Treasury's money laundering investigation unit, as we learned a few months ago (can't link the original WSJ source because it's paywalled.)

These cases move always move slowly (see Enron) and the fact that this guy became the GOP's presidential candidate and then the commander in chief must have complicated the matter immensely so I'm not surprised it's all under wraps for now.

Trump demanding Mueller not look at his finances is like the kid with crumbs all over his face telling his mom not to look in the cookie jar.

This stuff is so nuts, I bought Browder's book.

 

[BrassDragon]

This last tangent reminded me that the Treasury Department is now under Steven Mnuchin, a Trump loyalist with, duh, business ties to oligarch Leonard Blavatnik who is generously helping him divest from his commercial ventures as he serves the president.

I suspect that money laundering investigation into Trump is not proceeding at full speed right now. Hopefully the hand-over to Mueller cited earlier will keep it moving without political interference.

Hot damn, there is a lot riding on that special counsel office. Godspeed, Bob - our hopes go with you.

 

[shiba5]

This last tangent reminded me that the Treasury Department is now under Steven Mnuchin, a Trump loyalist with, duh, business ties to oligarch Leonard Blavatnik who is generously helping him divest from his commercial ventures as he serves the president.

I suspect that money laundering investigation into Trump is not proceeding at full speed right now. Hopefully the hand-over to Mueller cited earlier will keep it moving without political interference.

Hot damn, there is a lot riding on that special counsel office. Godspeed, Bob - our hopes go with you.

Is there anyone who Trump nominates who isn't tied to Russia in some fashion? He just nominated a guy who had Alfa Bank as a client. All these people in top positions in the U.S. Government has frightening connotations - like a silent coup going on.

 

[BrassDragon]

Is there anyone who Trump nominates who isn't tied to Russia in some fashion? He just nominated a guy who had Alfa Bank as a client. All these people in top positions in the U.S. Government has frightening connotations - like a silent coup going on.

Well, to be fair he did get a lot of Russia hawks into mix either through incompetence or political pressure (Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, CIA Director Mike Pompeo, Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley, Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly all appear wary of Putun.)

Then there are amoral opportunists like Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller, Kellyann Conway, Ben Carson and Anthony Scaramucci etc. who don't seem to care either way.

Because all these factions are at each other's throats and Trump is a mediocre leader, that silent coup isn't going anywhere. It's all they can do to keep the cover-up intact.

 

[shiba5]

Well, to be fair he did get a lot of Russia hawks into mix either through incompetence or political pressure (Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, CIA Director Mike Pompeo, Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley, Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly all appear wary of Putun.)

Then there are amoral opportunists like Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller, Kellyann Conway, Ben Carson and Anthony Scaramucci etc. who don't seem to care either way.

Because all these factions are at each other's throats and Trump is a mediocre leader, that silent coup isn't going anywhere. It's all they can do to keep the cover-up intact.

It's a good thing Trump is a truly stupid person.

 

[Das Ace]

Holy shit just caught up on all this. Absolutely bonkers.

 

[Dan]

You're not wrong on either count but let me introduce a third option: it's all about the money it's all about the dum dum dum dee dum dum. Trump is not a complicated man; my best guess is that his businesses are basically laundromats for one or more of these oligarch trustees. That's why his tax returns and finances are such taboos - they don't hold up to common sense accounting.

As per Eric Trump:



So it's basically a triple whammy: he earns dirty Russian money, they can blackmail him with this fact, and he is that fucking stupid to then proceed to run for and win the presidency.

There is no doubt Trumps money tells a story. I remember the leaks now that said Trump was basically only able to obtain loans from Russian oligarch types and it all makes so much sense.

Never forget, Donald Trump Jr in 2008:
"And in terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets; say in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia. There’s indeed a lot of money coming for new-builds and resale reflecting a trend in the Russian economy and, of course, the weak dollar versus the ruble."

 

[paskowitz]

Well... now that we know what "adoptions" means... this story suddenly becomes more interesting...

On the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit in Germany last month, President Trump’s advisers discussed how to respond to a new revelation that Trump’s oldest son had met with a Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign — a disclosure the advisers knew carried political and potentially legal peril.

The strategy, the advisers agreed, should be for Donald Trump Jr. to release a statement to get ahead of the story. They wanted to be truthful, so their account couldn’t be repudiated later if the full details emerged.

But within hours, at the president’s direction, the plan changed.

Flying home from Germany on July 8 aboard Air Force One, Trump personally dictated a statement in which Trump Jr. said that he and the Russian lawyer had “primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children” when they met in June 2016, according to multiple people with knowledge of the deliberations. The statement, issued to the New York Times as it prepared an article, emphasized that the subject of the meeting was “not a campaign issue at the time.”

 

[Linkura]

Someone posted an article about this on Facebook today and some dumbshit commented that it's no big deal because this all happened under Obama and because everyone at the Trump Jr meeting said nothing came of it. Wait.... what?

People will make excuses for anything.

Fakeedit: Guy replied and claimed Kushner testified under oath about the Jr meeting AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Summary of Bill Browder's main points in this interview:

- Dealing with Vladimir Putin requires understanding he is not like other heads of state but rather a criminal running a criminal regime comparable to Pablo Escobar.

- With enrichment as his main goal, Putin has been running different schemes to take money out of the Russian state and its citizens. One example of such a scheme is international pipelines being built for 10 billion USD against a real cost of 1 billion USD.

- Totaling up the profits form all these scams means Putin is likely the wealthiest man in the world

- One reason he has been in power for 17 years is because rising oil prices meant the standard of living in Russia was improving which citizens associate with his authority.

- By 2013, this positive perception was fading and Putin switched to painting his country as besieged by enemies from all sides, within and without and he effectively became a war president (sending military into Ukraine, Syria etc.)

- Putin controls all media and the electorate through ballot stuffing, there is no parliamentary oversight so he is effectively a dictator but his control is tenuous since he has to keep his populace docile.

- Powerful oligarch Michail Chodorkovski was made an example by Putin in 2003 with a very public arrest and corruption trial. The other 22 oligarchs fell in line after this; Browder claims Putin personally demanded 50% of their earnings in exchange for protection.

- There is no rational end goal behind Putin's accumulation of wealth; to stay on top, he has to be richest, always.

- He can't keep these riches in his own name because then it becomes a liability so he created a network of 'oligarch trustees' to hold and spread his money around in the west (banks, hedge funds, trophy properties etc.)

- Short recap of Sergei Magnitsky's investigation into the theft of Browder's Russian holdings and his arrest, torture and death at the hands of the perpetrators.

- After Browder convinced US Congress to pass the Magnitsky Act, Putin was 'apoplectic' and he banned the adoption of Russian orphans by American families in response.

- Browder has taken multiple (secret) security measures to protect himself and his family but the most important one is getting this story out into the world.

- There are 'hundreds of thousands' of Russian businessmen sitting in jail because the state wanted to seize their assets.

- 'If you fight the regime and you're in Russia, there is a pretty good chance you'll die.'

- The average Russian, with no business interests, only sees the positive and nationalist image of Putin offered up by the state media.

- Putin is 'a very small, insecure, angry man' who will hugely overreact to any perceived threat or slight. Browder calls him a sociopath with no understanding of other people's pain.

- Anyone reporting on Putin's two daughters gets arrested so we barely know anything about them or his grandchildren. He has no wife anymore is apparently a loner living in the presidential palace.

- There is no actual relationship between Trump and Putin. The Russian president has a wishlist (end the Magnitsky Act, dismantle NATO and the EU, project military force with impunity) that he would like Trump to acquiesce to; it's unclear what Trump gets out of going along with this and calling Putin a great guy.

- Russia definitely intervened in the 2016 US election, the only question mark is whether it was unilateral or with the cooperation of forces inside the USA.

- Browder is formally a fugitive from Russia and they want they have him extradited so they can put him in a gulag. He is currently under the protection of the UK as a newly minted British citizen.

- Magnitsky's surviving family is living in London and protected.

- Putin's regime, by its very nature, cannot sustain itself indefinitely and must eventually collapse.

Much appreciated for the summary

 

[EdibleKnife]

- There is no rational end goal behind Putin's accumulation of wealth; to stay on top, he has to be richest, always.

- 'If you fight the regime and you're in Russia, there is a pretty good chance you'll die.'

- Putin is 'a very small, insecure, angry man' who will hugely overreact to any perceived threat or slight. Browder calls him a sociopath with no understanding of other people's pain.

- There is no actual relationship between Trump and Putin. The Russian president has a wishlist (end the Magnitsky Act, dismantle NATO and the EU, project military force with impunity) that he would like Trump to acquiesce to; it's unclear what Trump gets out of going along with this and calling Putin a great guy.

- Russia definitely intervened in the 2016 US election, the only question mark is whether it was unilateral or with the cooperation of forces inside the USA.

- Putin's regime, by its very nature, cannot sustain itself indefinitely and must eventually collapse.

Thanks Brass. Sort of inspiring but overwhelmingly frightening. Forget just Trump and his other Russian serving lackeys in and pushed out of his administration, any citizen soft on Putin and the current Russian government, I feel free to write off. Enabling, benefiting from and even praising anything Putin or Putin-related is sick and is tacit approval of some of the worst kind of governmental, human rights, and ethical abuses mankind is capable of. This is fucking chilling. And it's even more chilling that Putin is becoming a "buddy" and "icon" for so many people just because of Trump being sweet on him.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Well, to be fair he did get a lot of Russia hawks into mix either through incompetence or political pressure (Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, CIA Director Mike Pompeo, Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley, Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly all appear wary of Putun.)

While I'm not a fan of much of what John F. Kelly does, he's not a Putin fan and he was unhappy with Trump's decision to fire Comey.

Hiring Kelly as Chief of Staff is a big mistake by Trump. Just wait. I'm pretty certain Kelly will fight Trump on attempts to shut Mueller down. Trump should have gone with a puppet for his new chief.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Thanks Brass. Sort of inspiring but overwhelmingly frightening. Forget just Trump and his other Russian serving lackeys in and pushed out of his administration, any citizen soft on Putin and the current Russian government, I feel free to write off. Enabling, benefiting from and even praising anything Putin or Putin-related is sick and is tacit approval of some of the worst kind of governmental, human rights, and ethical abuses mankind is capable of. This is fucking chilling. And it's even more chilling that Putin is becoming a "buddy" and "icon" for so many people just because of Trump being sweet on him.

Also note that Stein and Cernovitch are sweating, and firms like the NRA have gotten crazier lately.

 

[reKon]

holy shit at this testimony I just watched..

I don't a give shit if the masses are going to keep being ignorant. This HAS to be keep getting pushed out no matter what. There is so much pure evil here and all Americans need to understand why this is NOT a joke.

 

[SpaceCadetKeon]

I'm ashamed to admit that I was so caught up in the other crazy shit going on last week (transgender soldier ban, skinny repeal, Priebus firing, but didn't care about Scaramucci shit until he resigned) that I completely missed this until tonight when someone I follow on Facebook shared the Huffington Post article covering the testimony. I'll check out the recording of the testimony after I wake up tomorrow.

I already knew Putin was the bane of humanity, but somehow he's actually worse than I thought. Fuck him and fuck anyone who likes him. Especially the unpatriotic shits here in America who have praised him while also trashing Obama.

 

[dofry]

Summary of Bill Browder's main points in this interview:

- Dealing with Vladimir Putin requires understanding he is not like other heads of state but rather a criminal running a criminal regime comparable to Pablo Escobar.

- With enrichment as his main goal, Putin has been running different schemes to take money out of the Russian state and its citizens. One example of such a scheme is international pipelines being built for 10 billion USD against a real cost of 1 billion USD.

- Totaling up the profits form all these scams means Putin is likely the wealthiest man in the world

- One reason he has been in power for 17 years is because rising oil prices meant the standard of living in Russia was improving which citizens associate with his authority.

- By 2013, this positive perception was fading and Putin switched to painting his country as besieged by enemies from all sides, within and without and he effectively became a war president (sending military into Ukraine, Syria etc.)

- Putin controls all media and the electorate through ballot stuffing, there is no parliamentary oversight so he is effectively a dictator but his control is tenuous since he has to keep his populace docile.

- Powerful oligarch Michail Chodorkovski was made an example by Putin in 2003 with a very public arrest and corruption trial. The other 22 oligarchs fell in line after this; Browder claims Putin personally demanded 50% of their earnings in exchange for protection.

- There is no rational end goal behind Putin's accumulation of wealth; to stay on top, he has to be richest, always.

- He can't keep these riches in his own name because then it becomes a liability so he created a network of 'oligarch trustees' to hold and spread his money around in the west (banks, hedge funds, trophy properties etc.)

- Short recap of Sergei Magnitsky's investigation into the theft of Browder's Russian holdings and his arrest, torture and death at the hands of the perpetrators.

- After Browder convinced US Congress to pass the Magnitsky Act, Putin was 'apoplectic' and he banned the adoption of Russian orphans by American families in response.

- Browder has taken multiple (secret) security measures to protect himself and his family but the most important one is getting this story out into the world.

- There are 'hundreds of thousands' of Russian businessmen sitting in jail because the state wanted to seize their assets.

- 'If you fight the regime and you're in Russia, there is a pretty good chance you'll die.'

- The average Russian, with no business interests, only sees the positive and nationalist image of Putin offered up by the state media.

- Putin is 'a very small, insecure, angry man' who will hugely overreact to any perceived threat or slight. Browder calls him a sociopath with no understanding of other people's pain.

- Anyone reporting on Putin's two daughters gets arrested so we barely know anything about them or his grandchildren. He has no wife anymore is apparently a loner living in the presidential palace.

- There is no actual relationship between Trump and Putin. The Russian president has a wishlist (end the Magnitsky Act, dismantle NATO and the EU, project military force with impunity) that he would like Trump to acquiesce to; it's unclear what Trump gets out of going along with this and calling Putin a great guy.

- Russia definitely intervened in the 2016 US election, the only question mark is whether it was unilateral or with the cooperation of forces inside the USA.

- Browder is formally a fugitive from Russia and they want they have him extradited so they can put him in a gulag. He is currently under the protection of the UK as a newly minted British citizen.

- Magnitsky's surviving family is living in London and protected.

- Putin's regime, by its very nature, cannot sustain itself indefinitely and must eventually collapse.

Add this to the OP OP, please.

 

[BrassDragon]

Thanks for the OP update, Windu. The whole testimony is a must-read but I want to call attention to a few other victims of Putin's corruption other than Magnitsky that Browder mentions:

Boris Nemtsov

For these reasons, Putin has stated publicly that it was among his top foreign policy priorities to repeal the Magnitsky Act and to prevent it from spreading to other countries. Since its passage in 2012, the Putin regime has gone after everybody who has been advocating for the Magnitsky Act.

One of my main partners in this effort was Boris Nemtsov. Boris testified in front of the U.S. Congress, the European Parliament, the Canadian Parliament, and others to make the point that the Magnitsky Act was a ”pro-Russian" piece of legislation because it narrowly targeted corrupt officials and not the Russian people. In 2015, Boris Nemtsov was murdered on the bridge in front of the Kremlin.

Vladimir Kara-Murza

Boris Nemtsov's protégé, Vladimir Kara-Murza, also traveled to law-making bodies around the world to make a similar case. After Alexander Bastrykin, the head of the Russian Investigative Committee, was added to the Magnitsky List in December of 2016, Vladimir was poisoned. He suffered multiple organ failure, went into a coma and barely survived.

Nikolai Gorokhov

The lawyer who represented Sergei Magnitsky's mother, Nikolai Gorokhov, has spent the last six years fighting for justice. This spring, the night before he was due in court to testify about the state cover up of Sergei Magnitsky's murder, he was thrown off the fourth floor of his apartment building. Thankfully he survived and has carried on in the fight for justice.

It takes real courage to stand up for justice in a criminal state. The Magnitsky Act has put an estimated 200 billion USD out of the oligarchs' reach; it's an inconceivable amount of money and the people fighting to get their hands on it (and their willing foot soldiers in the US, Europe and elsewhere) will not be stopped by appeals to rule of law, patriotism or common decency.

 

[Killa Sasa]

This is fucking bananas. Completely swallowed by the Mooch but this paints one hell of a picture.

Hope ya'll can fix your country with this picture and the piles and piles of past information in mind. This is also something the entire West populace needs to know.

 

[Shadow Puppetry]

Someone posted an article about this on Facebook today and some dumbshit commented that it's no big deal because this all happened under Obama and because everyone at the Trump Jr meeting said nothing came of it. Wait.... what?

People will make excuses for anything.

Fakeedit: Guy replied and claimed Kushner testified under oath about the Jr meeting AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA

Yeah, still with the emails and uranium.

 

[Tye The Czar]

We've gotta keep spreading this around. Make sure it gets on Late Night with Stephen Colbert and SNL.

 

[Journeywalker]

We've gotta keep spreading this around. Make sure it gets on Late Night with Stephen Colbert and SNL.

Agreed. It's a compelling, insightful look into Russia's Mafia state.

But there's a niggling feeling in the back of my mind. It's a doubt put there as a precautionary measure after Condaleeza Rice and Colin Powell truly had me believing that we should go to war with Iraq.

I need to remember that this is one man's testimony, and nobody has really tried to poke holes in it. How does he know what he knows with such certainty? Are there any other people we could ask to corroborate the story? Does he have connections to any political interests in the United States? These are questions worth asking, especially because I WANT to believe the testimony.

 

[Tye The Czar]

Agreed. It's a compelling, insightful look into Russia's Mafia state.

But there's a niggling feeling in the back of my mind. It's a doubt put there as a precautionary measure after Condaleeza Rice and Colin Powell truly had me believing that we should go to war with Iraq.

I need to remember that this is one man's testimony, and nobody has really tried to poke holes in it. How does he know what he knows with such certainty? Are there any other people we could ask to corroborate the story? Does he have connections to any political interests in the United States? These are questions worth asking, especially because I WANT to believe the testimony.

The fact that the youtube videos with his testimony are being infested by Russian trollbots means that they really, REALLY don't want people to listen.

I have enough faith to share first, ask questions later when we have a spotlight.

 

[BrassDragon]

Agreed. It's a compelling, insightful look into Russia's Mafia state.

But there's a niggling feeling in the back of my mind. It's a doubt put there as a precautionary measure after Condaleeza Rice and Colin Powell truly had me believing that we should go to war with Iraq.

I need to remember that this is one man's testimony, and nobody has really tried to poke holes in it. How does he know what he knows with such certainty? Are there any other people we could ask to corroborate the story? Does he have connections to any political interests in the United States? These are questions worth asking, especially because I WANT to believe the testimony.

It's good to be critical of things like this and you're right Browder's testimony is only a single albeit authoritative source. However there is plenty of circumstantial evidence in favor of his story being true like:

- Reputable Human rights organisation Redress filed a detailed complaint about Magnistky's unlawful detainment, torture and death with the Office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights who is investigating the abuses. I don't blame you if you don't want to read the whole report but it has tons of sources (most of them government agencies in the US and EU) that corroborate the allegations of state-led criminal enterprises in Russia.

- The bipartisan passing of the Magnisky Act by the US Congress, going directly against the Russian-friendly policy posture of President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton at the time, bolsters Browder's credibility. While his influence is the officially cited reason for the law, it's logical that the intelligence services secretly weighed in on his credibility before US representatives adopted his perspective. Since Obama was trying to improve the US-Russia dynamic, it would have been common sense for him to sway the votes with classified intelligence showing Browder to be unreliable if such intelligence existed. The fact that the Act was signed into law and Browder's integrity never openly challenged by the US government until the Trump era should give one pause.

- Activist shareholder/blogger/politician Alexei Navalny has spoken and written at length about the corruption mechanics of Putin and government-sponsored elite/'stoligarchs'. Most recently, he published a documentary about the wealth of Prime Minister Medvedev which shows, on a smaller and more personal scale, how wealth from the state flows through Putin to cronies and then into western properties, primarily real estate... mirroring the claims that Browder just made before the Senate. Navalny, by the way, has suffered false imprisonment and a fucking acid attack to the face for his efforts.

- The European Union also made a direct connection between Magnitsky's murder and the overseas holdings of Russian oligarchs, responding by freezing financial assets of Russian persons accused by Browder and others of corruption. It should be noted that the EU is historically wary of hawkish policy towards Russia and the credibility of US intelligence has taken a huge hit since the Iraq war; they've likely connected these dots on their own and some member states are in a better position to do so than their American counterparts (the Dutch have a huge money trail that goes through false business fronts / 'mailbox offices' in Amsterdam, the Germans have an eye on Deutsche Bank a.k.a. the Russian laundromat and the British have the largest swath of Russian-held property in their territory outside of the US and Cyprus.)

- The effort to discredit Bill Browder, through official diplomatic channels, propaganda efforts and incessant social media engineering is truly staggering. As noted above, just check the comments of any Tweet, Facebook post or YouTube video that brings him up. If he was just a paranoid loon, Putin could respond to him like Obama reacts to, say, Alex Jones - an annoyance to be shrugged off, not a mortal enemy to be buried in the public eye.

You really don't have to dig that deep before you see all the machinations by Russians with seemingly limitless pockets. The question is, why are they allowed to operate with impunity when Putin has already demonstrated that he can swat down the richest of them, like Chodorkovsky, at any time, on a whim.

So yes, Vladimir Putin might be a stand-up guy trying to slowly inch his country towards prosperity and freedom while fighting ethnic terrorism, organized crime and western meddling in his democratic society (which is how it's portrayed on Russia Today.) Anything is possible in this crazy world.

But all things being equal, I'll side with Bill Browder in condemning this regime for the evil sham that it is.

 

[Journeywalker]

Thank you Brass for the comprehensive response. I was already convinced that Russia was a mafia state, but I FUDed myself. I was posting based on a feelings, not facts, and I should have done more research.

I'll have to read all of the sources, but I'm already more willing to accept Bill Browder's testimony as the truth. I think bringing up Fusion GPS as the source of both the Steele dossier and anti-Magnitsky lobbying is an avenue for convincing conservatives that Russia is not a country to be trusted.