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[robotrock]

Wait, was Stelline not in on the whole plan? She knows she’s born from a replicant right? And that the rebels were the ones who hid her?

Kind of doubt that she knows, seems pointless considering she never got to meet her parents. But maybe she would because Freysa was gonna drop a huge job on her at some point.

Just remember her talking about her two parents though. So if she knew that I doubt she ever thought she could be a replicant, unless Freysa told her.

 

[BorkBork]

Yeah, I had a problem with that as well. It was why I was trying to figure out whether there was some kind of connection between Deckard/Stelline and K.

The twist is good, he's not the chosen one, but then he still kind of is because of like you said, that impossible coincidence that he both has that memory AND is investigating that case.

Lots of replicants have that memory. It's generic horse memory file_01. K is the only one to have proof of it in the real world. Date by the tree. Secret horse in the furnace. He goes to Stelline to confirm if the memory is real. She says yes. He assumes he is special because he is super invested.

As for Stelline lying about using real memories, well...duh. K is a cop. She is engaged in an activity that is the only way she can interact with the world but is deemed illegal. Of course she denies it. Now a perceptive K might have caught on when he asked her to verify his memory (As an aside, we do not know how the memory is portrayed on her end, whether it is the whole thing or some sort of waveform function that helps her immediately discern that it's real), but he was on another line of inquiry entirely and was freaking out when he got his answer.

Wait, was Stelline not in on the whole plan? She knows she's born from a replicant right? And that the rebels were the ones who hid her?

My reading is Stelline knows nothing and is a complete innocent. She does not know anything except that she is an orphan who was adopted by a rich family but can't leave offworld because of her disease. Everyone who hid her made sure no one knew the entire puzzle. Deckard himself with his Blade Runner background saw to it that everything got scrambled. Even he doesn't know. Freya only knew that it was a girl but that was it.

This reading would mean that Stelline chose to comfort her own kind out of the goodness of her heart, while at the same time damning them by making them easier for Wallace to control.

Someone on reddit transcribed the full baseline test.

I want this in the director's cut please. I can see why they trimmed it down though.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

I was under the impression that Stelline was briefed and knew her true nature, but was keeping up a facade. And inplanting a memory of hers in K was to be another red herring for potential investigators. Otherwise why wouldn’t she tell K that his memory is hers?

 

[Xun]

I was under the impression that Stelline was briefed and knew her true nature, but was keeping up a facade. And inplanting a memory of hers in K was to be another red herring for potential investigators. Otherwise why wouldn’t she tell K that his memory is hers?

Likely because it's illegal to use real memories, right?

I don't think she knew who she was.

 

[Ushojax]

I was under the impression that Stelline was briefed and knew her true nature, but was keeping up a facade. And inplanting a memory of hers in K was to be another red herring for potential investigators. Otherwise why wouldn’t she tell K that his memory is hers?

K is a police officer, why would she confess to a crime under the circumstances? She doesn't know K or his story.

My impression was that Stelline was completely oblivious.

 

[Simo]

Someone on reddit transcribed the full baseline test.

Yeah it's from the artbook which has the full baseline Gosling originally wrote and was 8 minutes long when they shot it.

 

[Robot Pants]

Yeah it's from the artbook which has the full baseline Gosling originally wrote and was 8 minutes long when they shot it.

Does the book also say what the original baseline test was like before Gosling did his version?

 

[robotrock]

was just watching a Villeneuve interview where he said gosling made his favorite scene in the movie happen. wonder if he was talking about the baseline test

 

[Fallout-NL]

Lots of replicants have that memory. It's generic horse memory file_01. K is the only one to have proof of it in the real world. Date by the tree. Secret horse in the furnace. He goes to Stelline to confirm if the memory is real. She says yes. He assumes he is special because he is super invested.

But there is nothing to indicate that 'lots of replicants have that memory.'

Freysa does say 'we all want it to be us,' but that was metaphorical, not specifically with regards to that memory. After all, all the other replicants that supposedly have that memory - even if they do have it - can not 'want' anything when it comes to that memory because they are not aware of its significance.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Lots of replicants have that memory. It's generic horse memory file_01. K is the only one to have proof of it in the real world. Date by the tree. Secret horse in the furnace. He goes to Stelline to confirm if the memory is real. She says yes. He assumes he is special because he is super invested.

As for Stelline lying about using real memories, well...duh. K is a cop. She is engaged in an activity that is the only way she can interact with the world but is deemed illegal. Of course she denies it. Now a perceptive K might have caught on when he asked her to verify his memory (As an aside, we do not know how the memory is portrayed on her end, whether it is the whole thing or some sort of waveform function that helps her immediately discern that it's real), but he was on another line of inquiry entirely and was freaking out when he got his answer.

Agreed, that's exactly how I felt.

 

[Atraveller]

could watch and listen to denis villeneuve interviews all day

Denis on podcasts is basically ASMR.

 

[EVOL 100%]

It would have been a hard secret to keep, considering everyone would be asking Ford about it.

But as it stands, I'm pretty surprised how they were able to keep most of the details of the plot under wraps until the movie came out.

Yes, this so much.

I only watched the first trailer, but K being a replicant, and JOI being a hologram were both things that I'm really glad that I didn't know going into the movie.

 

[Rydeen]

But there is nothing to indicate that 'lots of replicants have that memory.'

Freysa does say 'we all want it to be us,' but that was metaphorical, not specifically with regards to that memory. After all, all the other replicants that supposedly have that memory - even if they do have it - can not 'want' anything when it comes to that memory because they are not aware of its significance.

Yeah a lot of people in this thread are either misremembering or misinterpreting what Freysa says to K. I saw it again on Friday and specifically was listening for her referencing the dream but she doesn't, it's about how all the replicants want to be the "special" one, the one that was born that can change the course of their existence, not the dream. It's still a mystery why K had Stelline's memory implanted into him.

I also don't think Stelline is aware of her importance. She recognizes the memory of hers but doesn't tell K other than to acknowledge it's real (because it's hers, which is why she also cries) and also wouldn't know why it's in his mind unless she herself mentions putting it in other replicant's minds.

We also don't know how long in the world of the film replicants have been given artificial memories. In the original film they weren't manufactured, just re-purposed from already existing human memories like Tyrell's niece's memories in Rachael.

 

[firehawk12]

SS Rare gacha memory?

Is it an SSR if it's like the worst thing to get and makes you feel worthless? lol

 

[robotrock]

Denis on podcasts is basically ASMR.

for real. so soothing

 

[HariKari]

It's still a mystery why K had Stelline's memory implanted into him.

It's not really a mystery because it's a memory other replicants have. K is the first one to piece it all together because he has the resources and the inspiration, so that's why he finds the horse.

 

[Number45]

As for Stelline lying about using real memories, well...duh. K is a cop. She is engaged in an activity that is the only way she can interact with the world but is deemed illegal. Of course she denies it. Now a perceptive K might have caught on when he asked her to verify his memory (As an aside, we do not know how the memory is portrayed on her end, whether it is the whole thing or some sort of waveform function that helps her immediately discern that it's real), but he was on another line of inquiry entirely and was freaking out when he got his answer.

Surely she recognised the memory as one of her own, otherwise why the tears?

 

[HariKari]

Surely she recognised the memory as one of her own, otherwise why the tears?

We're shown memories extracted from replicants and played on a display with Luv. I'm sure Stelline's machine can do something similar. It's an upgrade shop.

 

[Simo]

Does the book also say what the original baseline test was like before Gosling did his version?

Yeah it was basically a lot shorter and to the point with K reading a direct passage from the book of I remember correctly.

 

[Rydeen]

It's not really a mystery because it's a memory other replicants have. K is the first one to piece it all together because he has the resources and the inspiration, so that's why he finds the horse.

Where is it ever said other replicants have that memory? If you're talking about the scene where Freysa tells K he's not the child, that's not what she says.

 

[polyh3dron]

Did Deckard's daughter really have a disease or was that just a cover to hide her in plain sight?

It doesn't explicitly say either way, but my guess is that there never was a disease.

My only issue with the whole movie is, how the fuck does K become a LAPD Blade Runner made to hunt remaining Nexus models when he himself is a Nexus? How does he get to the point he is at in the beginning of the movie without his eyeball being checked for his serial number at some point?

 

[Vampirolol]

There are some things I didn't understand.

The first is: why didn't Luv kill agent K when she found him and Deckard? It was estabilished before that she was a murder, so why did she leave K there?

Second: did the replicant freedom movement need Deckard's daughter to rise? Were they waiting the whole time?

 

[BorkBork]

But there is nothing to indicate that 'lots of replicants have that memory.'

Freysa does say 'we all want it to be us,' but that was metaphorical, not specifically with regards to that memory. After all, all the other replicants that supposedly have that memory - even if they do have it - can not 'want' anything when it comes to that memory because they are not aware of its significance.

You are right. We do not have definitive proof either way. But I have no issues reconciling my version of what happened, and my version fits with the key theme of the movie, which is that one doesn't have to be special to make an impact - the act is what matters. Stelline makes memories for a living. It makes more sense that she makes memories for many replicants (note I didn't say all, because it can be just some and achieve the same effect of robbing K of his special status) versus one unique memory implanted in some cop who may or may not discover its significance after being triggered by a date on a dead tree.

Also, K tells Joshi about the memory and Joshi thinks nothing of it, except "hey neat, wanna bone?" If it was so super secret and significant, wouldn't there be some safeguard around spilling it to anyone who asks? Especially for a cop who can be ordered to pour his head out at any time?

Freysa's comment lets K and the audience in on the revelation that K is not unique, no matter how much he wishes to be. That's it. But through his detective work, K becomes the one to discover the child's identity (again, theme, action is what matters, not what you were given) If he himself isn't special, by extension Stelline must be.

Funny this is probably one of the few things that seemed pretty clear to me. If you have another interpretation, I am game to hear it.

 

[HariKari]

Where is it ever said other replicants have that memory? If you're talking about the scene where Freysa tells K he's not the child, that's not what she says.

Mariette (the prostitute) picks up the horse and says "I've been dreaming about this."

 

[Atraveller]

Mariette (the prostitute) picks up the horse and says "I've been dreaming about this."

What? No. It was "It was made from a tree".

 

[BorkBork]

We're shown memories extracted from replicants and played on a display with Luv. I'm sure Stelline's machine can do something similar. It's an upgrade shop.

Ok then, that was just me speculating. We never see it from Stelline's eyes so I thought it might be interesting for her to see memories differently. She does have a trade secret in making them special.

There are some things I didn't understand.

The first is: why didn't Luv kill agent K when she found him and Deckard? It was estabilished before that she was a murder, so why did she leave K there?

Second: did the replicant freedom movement need Deckard's daughter to rise? Were they waiting the whole time?

1. It's the way the movie is telling you that K is not important. They wanted and got Deckard when you think they wanted K. K is useless refuse after he is incapacitated and Luv already hurt him in the worst way possible by killing Joi.

2. General savior and giving hope stuff. Also a replicant that has not been tampered with by Wallace. I like that the whole damn revolution is just a tiny side plot. Again, I find the irony of this revolution pinning their hopes on an innocent who can't leave her bubble and is also partly responsible for their kind's subjugation tragic and compelling.

 

[polyh3dron]

BTW I'm really bummed we will never get to hear Johann Johannson's score. I'm willing to bet it was way better than the "just kind of there" score that just tried to half-copy the Vangelis score but not go all the way with it.

 

[Iriscomeback]

Saw it yesterday in IMAX and it's a masterpiece, completely blown away.

Holy shit.

That scene with Elvis was incredible. Sound design gave me goosebumps several times throughout the movie.

Going to see it again before it's gone from theatres.

 

[Vampirolol]

Ok then, that was just me speculating. We never see it from Stelline's eyes so I thought it might be interesting for her to see memories differently. She does have a trade secret in making them special.



1. It's the way the movie is telling you that K is not important. They wanted and got Deckard when you think they wanted K. K is useless refuse after he is incapacitated and Luv already hurt him in the worst way possible by killing Joi.

2. General savior and giving hope stuff. Also a replicant that has not been tampered with by Wallace. I like that the whole damn revolution is just a tiny side plot. Again, I find the irony of this revolution pinning their hopes on an innocent who can't leave her bubble and is also partly responsible for their kind's subjugation compelling.

Thanks for the answers. The more I think about the movie, the more I like it.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Mariette (the prostitute) picks up the horse and says "I've been dreaming about this."

Definitely did not say that.

We're shown memories extracted from replicants and played on a display with Luv. I'm sure Stelline's machine can do something similar. It's an upgrade shop.

Also no? That was just footage from the VK test, right? All you saw was the close up of Rachel's iris.

 

[HariKari]

Definitely did not say that.

I must be going crazy then. I remember the tree line as well. The impression I got was that she recognized it.

I don't get the hangup on those memories being specific to K. It makes far more sense if Stelline is illegally putting real memories in a number of replicants and that in turn causes the 'deviant' behavior, hence why they are illegal.

 

[Diprosalic]

The more i think about the movie the more i like it.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I must be going crazy then. I remember the tree line as well. The impression I got was that she recognized it.

I don't get the hangup on those memories being specific to K. It makes far more sense if Stelline is illegally putting real memories in a number of replicants and that in turn causes the 'deviant' behavior, hence why they are illegal.

You are right. We do not have definitive proof either way. But I have no issues reconciling my version of what happened, and my version fits with the key theme of the movie, which is that one doesn't have to be special to make an impact - the act is what matters. Stelline makes memories for a living. It makes more sense that she makes memories for many replicants (note I didn't say all, because it can be just some and achieve the same effect of robbing K of his special status) versus one unique memory implanted in some cop who may or may not discover its significance after being triggered by a date on a dead tree.

Also, K tells Joshi about the memory and Joshi thinks nothing of it, except "hey neat, wanna bone?" If it was so super secret and significant, wouldn't there be some safeguard around spilling it to anyone who asks? Especially for a cop who can be ordered to pour his head out at any time?

Freysa's comment lets K and the audience in on the revelation that K is not unique, no matter how much he wishes to be. That's it. But through his detective work, K becomes the one to discover the child's identity (again, theme, action is what matters, not what you were given) If he himself isn't special, by extension Stelline must be.

Funny this is probably one of the few things that seemed pretty clear to me. If you have another interpretation, I am game to hear it.

No, I'm with you guys on your interpretation and how it makes sense thematically. Just wish they could have tied up that end of it a bit tighter.

 

[Zakalwe]

1. It's the way the movie is telling you that K is not important. They wanted and got Deckard when you think they wanted K. K is useless refuse after he is incapacitated and Luv already hurt him in the worst way possible by killing Joi.

It is this, but it's more Luv's character's development of sadism, and her desire to be the best. Leaving K alive makes him suffer more (she clearly revels in that) and challenges him "come and get me if you think you can beat me".

 

[Diprosalic]

Luv and her arc are basically the only thing i didn't like. Anybody got a good explanation how she fits in all of this?

 

[BorkBork]

It is this, but it's more Luv's character's development of sadism, and her desire to be the best. Leaving K alive makes him suffer more (she clearly revels in that) and challenges him "come and get me if you think you can beat me".

Right Villeneuve also talked about it as something akin to a sibling rivalry (all in Luv's mind, of course). Hoeks' delivery of the "I'm the best" line was really memorable and bratty, like it was from a petulant and vindictive child.

Man the rewatch on Tuesday can't come soon enough.

 

[s_mirage]

I don't get the hangup on those memories being specific to K. It makes far more sense if Stelline is illegally putting real memories in a number of replicants and that in turn causes the 'deviant' behavior, hence why they are illegal.

I think the main hang up is that there's no real evidence presented in the film that other Replicants do have this same memory; the details of why the memory was implanted are non-existent and therefore open to interpretation. You believe that it makes sense for lots of Replicants to have that same memory, and that's true to an extent, but that would be extremely dangerous for Stelline since she's eventually going to get caught if the real memories are causing errant behaviour.

 

[Zakalwe]

Luv and her arc are basically the only thing i didn't like. Anybody got a good explanation how she fits in all of this?

She's great.

Little girl with a daddy-complex. Desperately trying to show Wallace how significant she is, desperately trying to prove she's the best Vs other Replicants.

It seems she's been told her entire life how special she is, she's been given all the shady/violent tasks, and she's pretty much developed into a full on psychopath by the time we meet her in 2049.

 

[Fallout-NL]

She's great.

Little girl with a daddy-complex. Desperately trying to show Wallace how significant she is, desperately trying to prove she's the best Vs other Replicants.

It seems she's been told her entire life how special she is, she's been given all the shady/violent tasks, and she's pretty much developed into a full on psychopath by the time we meet her in 2049.

I read her as a bit more conflicted than that. The tear when she witnesses how Wallace disposes of the new replicant model for instance.

 

[robotrock]

I read her as a bit more conflicted than that. The tear when she witnesses how Wallace disposes of the new replicant model for instance.

I thiiiiiink that tear comes before that? I always thought she was tearing up just at seeing a replicant enter the world.

Imagine seeing an adult getting born

 

[HariKari]

You believe that it makes sense for lots of Replicants to have that same memory, and that's true to an extent, but that would be extremely dangerous for Stelline since she's eventually going to get caught if the real memories are causing errant behaviour.

The rebels are numerous and haven't been retired. They have some way of organizing, staying hidden or concealing their condition, and gathering together sympathetic replicants. Given that and K having illegal memories, it appears the controls put in place by humans aren't exactly air tight. Given enough time, Stelline would probably be found out, but the movie renders that a moot point. I'm also operating under the assumption that what she was told as a child was a lie and that she doesn't understand the risks in what she is doing but has the rebels looking out for her regardless. It seems a lot more plausible than the alternatives.

I think a more interesting question is if someone specifically chose K to receive these illegal (potentially and probably shared) memories knowing that he'd be a blade runner. He is really the first one with the ability and resources to piece together the puzzle. Both sides need him, in a way.

 

[Zakalwe]

I read her as a bit more conflicted than that. The tear when she witnesses how Wallace disposes of the new replicant model for instance.

That tear isn't for the Replicant, it's for herself.

Wallace views the newborn as imperfect because it's barren, Luv is desperate to be the best in her daddy's eyes and from this point on she goes out of her way to prove it so she doesn't become obsolete too.

 

[Heckler456]

I thiiiiiink that tear comes before that? I always thought she was tearing up just at seeing a replicant enter the world.

Imagine seeing an adult getting born

The tear definitely happens before the replicant woman was killed.

That tear isn't for the Replicant, it's for herself.

Wallace views the newborn as imperfect because it's barren, Luv is desperate to be the best in her daddy's eyes and from this point on she goes out of her way to prove it so she doesn't become obsolete too.

Yeah, I think that she, like most of the replicants in the movie, wants to be more than just a replicant. The problem in her specific case is that the only person who can validate that for her is Wallace, who despite all his "angel" and "a child is born" talk, only views replicants as a tool/slaves/means to an end for humans to conquer the stars. I think it's been said before, but the tear just seems to me to be repressed feelings coming to the surface.

 

[Zakalwe]

The tear could also be simply sibling jealousy.

The tear definitely happens before the replicant woman was killed.

But while Wallace is explaining that the newborn is not what he needs, right?

I really need to see this film again to get all this shit straight...

 

[robotrock]

But while Wallace is explaining that the newborn is not what he needs, right?

I really need to see this film again to get all this shit straight...

Nah I think he’s just rambling about bullshit when she’s tearing up

 

[Zakalwe]

Nah I think he’s just rambling about bullshit when she’s tearing up

I need to see it again, but I'm pretty sure all his rambling is about his desires to make Replicants who can procreate.

Regardless, I don't think that tear is for anyone but Luv.

 

[Heckler456]

The tear could also be simply sibling jealousy.



But while Wallace is explaining that the newborn is not what he needs, right?

I really need to see this film again to get all this shit straight...

I don't remember 100%, but I want to say it's before he puts his hand on the replicants belly and does that whole "barren" speech.

 

[robotrock]

I need to see it again, but I'm pretty sure all his rambling is about his desires to make Replicants who can procreate.

Regardless, I don't think that tear is for anyone but Luv.

You’re right but I don’t think that point had been clear in time for that tear. Buuuut yeah I need to see this again too.

 

[s_mirage]

The tear definitely happens before the replicant woman was killed.

It did occur to me that perhaps the tear isn't sadness, regret, or joy, but instead zealous devotion. Luv is utterly devoted to Wallace and his cause, and the other time we see it happen she also has a mini rant at Joshi about something along the lines of not embracing the future, and therefore Wallace's vision, before she kills her.

 

[Heckler456]

It did occur to me that perhaps the tear isn't sadness, regret, or joy, but instead zealous devotion. Luv is utterly devoted to Wallace and his cause, and the other time we see it happen she also has a mini rant at Joshi about something along the lines of not embracing the future, and therefore Wallace's vision, before she kills her.

Yeah, I thought that as well, but I don't know if that's entirely reconcilable with the "little girl" thing she's got going on. Like her "imitating her dad" when she fights K at the end, and going "I'm the best" in response to Wallace's "you're the most special Angel of them all", or something to that respect.

It could be either zealous devotion, or conflicted and repressed emotions.