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[Heckler456]

I'm pretty sure he died.

I actually didn't care for that aspect of the ending. He didn't need to die and it felt a little cliched, succumbing to a wound at the end of the story. I'd rather he hobbled off into the snow.

Well remember, he was a dead man anyway. They were basically going to retire him after his next baseline. Maybe he could have joined the resistance, but I feel like he renounced them as well with his decision regarding Deckard.

Besides, I just think he had nothing left to live for after losing Joi.

But who knows.

 

[Zakalwe]

I'm pretty sure he died.

I actually didn't care for that aspect of the ending. He didn't need to die and it felt a little cliched, succumbing to a wound at the end of the story. I'd rather he hobbled off into the snow.

It's the perfect end to his arc. He found out he wasn't special in that he wasn't "the one", yet in the end he was special because he gave his life for the cause.

Or perhaps he said "fuck the cause" and was simply interested in reuniting a man and his daughter.

Either way he seemed happy at the end.

His arc is tragic and quite beautiful.

 

[Aurongel]

The cinematic language of the scene leans on him being dead. If it was intended to be ambiguous then I think it should have been handled differently.

Honestly, I found that to be the ONE piece of the ending that I wasn't satisfied with, feels very cliche. What keeps me from disliking it is that the repeated imagery with the snow and it having a different meaning to his character each time was excellent.

But the way the final scene plays makes it feel a bit cliche.

 

[Heckler456]

I wonder if there was any meaning behind him looking up at the snow after seeing it fall down on his hand. I wanna say he did that at the end there, but not when he first left after his meeting with Ana and finding out he was special.

 

[moltonasty]

I love the fact that his death wasn't definitive, and they left it more or less open to interpretation or possible sequels (lol).

If he dies it's still a satisfying self-contained story and arc for him, if he lives he could possibly join the resistance.

 

[Ushojax]

I think Denis said there would be a sequel if the movie was successful. Obviously it's underperformed at the box office but the critical acclaim will probably be enough for a studio to pay for a less expensive sequel. If Harrison Ford isn't in it then straight away you are chopping $20m off the budget.

 

[Zakalwe]

His death was pretty much definitive with the music, I don't really see any way to argue against it with the track being named the way it is.

Also

Now, the movie doesn't definitively show K dying. He could just be taking a power nap on those steps, after all. Though it's technically left open to interpretation, screenwriter Michael Green pretty much confirmed that K does die at the end. In an interview with Entertainment Weekly, Green said, "I was surprised to find out that anyone thought he didn't die. And I can say this: the noncasual fan might recognize the music cue that plays in that moment."

 

[moltonasty]

Oh shit, somehow I missed that they were playing Tears in the Rain.

Well that's pretty definitive then, but of course something they could easily retcon (if they wanted to). Deckard could tell Stelline how he found her, and could find K on the verge of death/resuscitate him/whatever.

Not that he needs to live though, his story was very satisfying and emotional as is.

 

[moltonasty]

I think Denis said there would be a sequel if the movie was successful. Obviously it's underperformed at the box office but the critical acclaim will probably be enough for a studio to pay for a less expensive sequel. If Harrison Ford isn't in it then straight away you are chopping $20m off the budget.

I'd imagine their definition of success is strictly financial, but fuck, that would be great

 

[Adry9]

To be honest I'd be fine with not revisiting this topic for another 15 years or so. This movie was great and I wouldn't like to see a sequel filled with clichés or repeating itself.

 

[Mr. Sam]

I wonder if there was any meaning behind him looking up at the snow after seeing it fall down on his hand. I wanna say he did that at the end there, but not when he first left after his meeting with Ana and finding out he was special.

I thought the significance of the snow is that snowflakes are like replicants (or humans) - i.e. entirely unique, but also unfathomably numerous, commonplace and ordinary.

That would certainly be a nice thought to have just prior to death.

 

[NateDog]

On the subject of the snow, I know it was brought up already but I think I missed the discussion on it. What's the consensus about the ending scene where we watch the snow falling on K and simultaneously see Stelline working with snow in a "memory"? Do you guys think it's merely paralleling the snow outside? I only noticed it the second time. I felt like it was symbolic regarding a sort of purifying of K (at least in terms of him making his own decision on what he felt was right and perhaps finally feeling human) and perhaps paralleling the circle of life and the interconnection and beauty (particularly in this universe) of life and death.

 

[Heckler456]

On the subject of the snow, I know it was brought up already but I think I missed the discussion on it. What's the consensus about the ending scene where we watch the snow falling on K and simultaneously see Stelline working with snow in a "memory"? Do you guys think it's merely paralleling the snow outside? I only noticed it the second time. I felt like it was symbolic regarding a sort of purifying of K (at least in terms of him making his own decision on what he felt was right and perhaps finally feeling human) and perhaps paralleling the circle of life and the interconnection and beauty (particularly in this universe) of life and death.

After K finds out that he's "special", and that he was born, he walks outside of the upgrade center and does the same thing with the falling snow and looking at his hand, paralleling what Joi did with the rain. I think it symbolizes that they feel more "real" at that particular point in time. At the very least, I think it has something to do with "being real".

At the end, he does the same thing, and it's basically the same visual. I think that's meant to symbolize that even though he found out that he wasn't born after all, he's still equally "real". The Ana scene inside, I don't know. I think it can be seen both ways. Either it's meant to show that her experiences inside that glass box are equally real, because she experiences it as real. Or the snow falling through her hand is meant to show that even though she in fact was born, she is less "real" than K at that particular point in their lives.

I feel like there's definitely some kind of intent there, but I can't entirely place it. I also feel like the hand with the bees on it should be incorporated somehow as well, but who knows.

 

[The Jackdog]

It's the perfect end to his arc. He found out he wasn't special in that he wasn't "the one", yet in the end he was special because he gave his life for the cause.

Or perhaps he said "fuck the cause" and was simply interested in reuniting a man and his daughter.

Either way he seemed happy at the end.

His arc is tragic and quite beautiful.

i took it slightly different, more happy spin.

he rejects both what he was made for and the resistance, he makes a decision purely based on what he feels is right, on his own, with no one telling him what to do.

he decides his fate himself, something truely human

 

[tattooed_dwarf]

But what happened to the dog?

 

[Surfinn]

But what happened to the dog?

That poor doggie. I felt terrible for him

 

[BorkBork]

But what happened to the dog?

Ask him.

 

[smisk]

But what happened to the dog?

In my mind he's living happily with the replicant rebellion dudes.

Ask him.

Really loved that exchange. If you can't tell the difference between real and synthetic does it matter?

 

[Haloid1177]

Received this in the mail today.

Not sure if I'll open it, but cool that they decided to do this.

 

[Heckler456]

That's awesome.

 

[NateDog]

After K finds out that he's "special", and that he was born, he walks outside of the upgrade center and does the same thing with the falling snow and looking at his hand, paralleling what Joi did with the rain. I think it symbolizes that they feel more "real" at that particular point in time. At the very least, I think it has something to do with "being real".

At the end, he does the same thing, and it's basically the same visual. I think that's meant to symbolize that even though he found out that he wasn't born after all, he's still equally "real". The Ana scene inside, I don't know. I think it can be seen both ways. Either it's meant to show that her experiences inside that glass box are equally real, because she experiences it as real. Or the snow falling through her hand is meant to show that even though she in fact was born, she is less "real" than K at that particular point in their lives.

I feel like there's definitely some kind of intent there, but I can't entirely place it. I also feel like the hand with the bees on it should be incorporated somehow as well, but who knows.

I feel dense for not even applying anything in that scene to her and only to K. Interesting take, I didn't even notice it fell through her hand (although that makes sense). I also am just remembering Villeneuve talking about the significance of colours used in a lot of scenes in the movie, and Deakins about the particularities of a lot of designs for certain indoor locations like K's apartment. Weirdly enough I've not really thought much about Stelline's place in all of this despite her being so central to the narrative and universe. Perhaps in a way that was an intention, with the audience's focus on K and his story, we forget about someone who's story was shut away and effectively ended for a number of years as her family tried to give her room to have one later on that wasn't cut short.

 

[tattooed_dwarf]

In my mind he's living happily with the replicant rebellion dudes.



Really loved that exchange. If you can't tell the difference between real and synthetic does it matter?

Me too, on both.I love the fact they showed dog alive and didn't play that "we killed dog so we are really bad people"-card.

 

[Vectorman]

It suddenly occurred to me that the LAPD could have still been keeping tabs on K as he was able to be found in Las Vegas and after that as well. Wouldn't people start asking questions if his last known location was at one of the places he visited before?

 

[Glass]

I hope the answer as to whether K dies is meant to be ambiguous by the movie makers, I really couldn't tell, but having Tears in the Rain play does seem to heavily imply one more then the other. Either way a perfect ending.

 

[Einchy]

I hope the answer as to whether K dies is meant to be ambiguous by the movie makers, I really couldn't tell, but having Tears in the Rain play does seem to heavily imply one more then the other. Either way a perfect ending.

I really don't think it's supposed to be ambiguous, we saw that he had to get patched up last time he got stabbed, then this time not only did he not get help but Luv twisted the blade pretty badly in his guts. It looked, at least to me, pretty obvious that K laid down to watch the snow as he drifted away and him being completely still at the end is him dying. Even if he didn't die on screen then he would die shortly after.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Received this in the mail today.



Not sure if I'll open it, but cool that they decided to do this.

who and why?

 

[Haloid1177]

who and why?

Johnnie Walker did a limited release of a new blend for the movie. Developed with Denis' input, all that marketing bullshit. Basically it's a replica of the bottle from the movie, and is limited to 27000 bottles in the US distributed among 15 states. 10,000 in Europe I believe. It's just a cool marketing promotion. Seems to have hit most prevalent in Cali, with Costos getting the most allotment. Not sure if people in the thread cared about movie collectibles or not, just thought it was cool.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

It's the perfect end to his arc. He found out he wasn't special in that he wasn't "the one", yet in the end he was special because he gave his life for the cause.

Or perhaps he said "fuck the cause" and was simply interested in reuniting a man and his daughter.

Either way he seemed happy at the end.

His arc is tragic and quite beautiful.

Oh, it's a great arc, I just didn't think he needed to die for closure.

But as pointed out, he was going to get killed next baseline or become a fugitive, and that's not really better-- so I guess I am OK with him dying.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Consider this: Stelline doesn't seem to get many visitors, and probably even fewer who would come to ask about one of her most heartfelt memories. Other replicants don't ask because they're slaves and are not in the business of investigating memories. Remember how Joshi gets super pissed at K for even detouring out to an upgrade center? This sort of event doesn't happen in Stelline's life, so naturally she is overwhelmed at being shown her own memory, likely the first time since she made it, which must be at least as long ago as K is old.

Yes, that makes sense. Would be the only viable explanation I think. Also, Mariette seems to recognise the horse in that scene with Joi, lending further credence to that idea.

That does however create some problems with the Freysa scene. 'We all wanted to be the child' could then be literal, not metaphorical. But how would they understand the significance of that dream if K is the only one who has the information necessary to know it is real?

I'm telling you man. This part of it is messy

 

[Creamium]

Listening to Sea Wall, makes me want to go see this a third time.

That transition from embers into rain/snow and the cityscape + soundtrack

 

[Heckler456]

Yes, that makes sense. Would be the only viable explanation I think. Also, Mariette seems to recognise the horse in that scene with Joi, lending further credence to that idea.

That does however create some problems with the Freysa scene. 'We all wanted to be the child' could then be literal, not metaphorical. But how would they understand the significance of that dream if K is the only one who has the information necessary to know it is real?

I'm telling you man. This part of it is messy

I don't think it can be literal by the mere fact that Freysa say "we" and not "they".

Freysa for sure doesn't have the memory, seeing as she's a Nexus 8.

Listening to Sea Wall, makes me want to go see this a third time.

Seriously, I was a late adopter on 1080p, and I've been gaming and watching my movies on a 32 inch 1080p for the past 4 or so years.

This movie makes me want to get a 4K HDR set and a decent surround sound system.

 

[Creamium]

Seriously, I was a late adopter on 1080p, and I've been gaming and watching my movies on a 32 inch 1080p for the past 4 or so years.

This movie makes me want to get a 4K HDR set and a decent surround sound system.

Yeah I'm still rocking 1080p too, but I might have to upgrade at some point if I want to enjoy movies like this at their best.

 

[BorkBork]

I read his review on the Guardian, but this is the first time I've seen Mark Kermode's video review on 2049. It's really good and from someone who really loves the original. In one section he goes into the pacing, and how 2049 is edited more like a movie from the 1970's.

 

[Megalosaro]

I cant believe they pulled this movie off.

 

[Sub_Level]

Listening to Sea Wall, makes me want to go see this a third time.

That transition from embers into rain/snow and the cityscape + soundtrack

Harrison Ford described this as a "cathedral of a movie".

Very apt.

 

[hendersonhank]

Like I said, obtuse.

Your argument hinges on the notion that literally nothing is going on underneath the surface level of anything, ever. You want to believe that? Fine. But that's just not the case, so we're at kind of an impasse here.

I agree we're at an impasse, but I would more accurately characterize my opinion on this as "given every single thing we are told or are shown by the writer and director, it would not make sense for this character [Stelline] to have done this [sell her own memories and then lie about it]".

Is it really that out there for her to shed some tears after seeing how one of her memories has affected a replicant?

In what way does she see how it has "affected a replicant"? K asks with his usual stoneface if the memory is real or not, that's it. She is the one affected by it. He doesn't break down until she tells him it's real.

the audience is supposed to believe that she is simply merely reacting to the beauty of the constructed memory because she is portrayed as a sensitive soul and is a master who is moved by great craft,

Why would the audience think that? She says flat-out it's a real -- not constructed -- memory. That's why K breaks down and why he thinks he is the miracle child, because she tells him it's not a constructed memory.

 

[Heckler456]

I agree we're at an impasse, but I would more accurately characterize my opinion on this as "given every single thing we are explicitly told or are shown by the writer and director, it would not make sense for this character [Stelline] to have done this [sell her own memories and then lie about it]".

I corrected that for you. You're completely ignoring everything that's said implicitly. Like how she's clearly lonely, and sharing her memories with others is a way to have some sort of connection with some outside herself. Stuff like that.

In what way does she see how it has "affected a replicant"? K asks with his usual stoneface if the memory is real or not, that's it. She is the one affected by it. He doesn't break down until she tells him it's real.

What? No. He hadn't been his "usual stoneface self" for a good long while by then. He even nearly broke at the orphanage, after his lead ended up dead with those torn pages from the book.

 

[Raziel]

What felt long to you? Drawn out scenes or unnecessary plot/content?

Personaly i didn't felt that it was long so it is interesting for me why people felt that way.

Appreciate how Villeneuve introduces things with longer, quiter scenes. Liked that in Sicario too.

Sicario was 42 mins shorter.

 

[Arkeband]

Dunno if this was posted here yet or not, but guest on Mega64 and fellow GAFfer Frank Howley made an absolutely hilarious skit based on BR2049.

I present to you

Waifu 2049

 

[BorkBork]

Why would the audience think that? She says flat-out it's a real -- not constructed -- memory. That's why K breaks down and why he thinks he is the miracle child, because she tells him it's not a constructed memory.

Remove the word constructed then. As a craftsperson of the medium she would still be moved by the beauty and intensity of it.

 

[Mikado]

Came back from third viewing.

The tin with the sock was hidden behind the "E" key of Sapper's piano.
Pretty sure that the single note that K plays in the Vegas Casino is also an "E"?

When Deckard asks him why he is there, K says "I heard the Piano".

I love this damn movie so much.

Spoiler

"E" is also the first main note of the bladerunner opening theme.

 

[hendersonhank]

I corrected that for you. You're completely ignoring everything that's said implicitly. Like how she's clearly lonely, and sharing her memories with others is a way to have some sort of connection with some outside herself. Stuff like that.

I'm saying that not only is that not said implicitly, but that they already have her EXPLICITLY state how she has "some sort of connection with some outside herself" -- through her exceptional imagination.

 

[soundscream]

Just saw it and loved it.

But there is now way they thought this would make huge bank right?

Its so deliberately paced, the general movie going audince isnt conditioned for a movie like this.

 

[hendersonhank]

With regards to luck, it's not a big deal. Without K finding the clue on the tree, there would be no story and no movie. He would just continue to do his job and come home to Joi. The trigger happens to be during a job retiring a replicant, which happened to be connected to this Deckard/Rachel saga. If you can't accept that premise, I don't know what to tell ya. It's akin to asking why there are sentient beings in the universe. Well, if there are no sentient beings then no one would be there to ask the question. There would be no starting point.

Not really. The absurd coincidence of the same replicant with Stelline's memory being the one assigned to this case is only necessary for the unnecessary twist of "of course Ryan Gosling is the chosen one -- oh wait no he isn't!"

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Received this in the mail today.



Not sure if I'll open it, but cool that they decided to do this.

Man I didn't know this was a thing. I'd have been all over this thing before. I love black label so much and immediately recognized the bottle as black label within the first few frames it came up in 2049. Definitely won't be able to find one of these in Canada now.

 

[BorkBork]

Not really. The absurd coincidence of the same replicant with Stelline's memory being the one assigned to this case is only necessary for the unnecessary twist of "of course Ryan Gosling is the chosen one -- oh wait no he isn't!"

Sigh. I never subscribed to the idea that he was the only replicant with the memory.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Came back from third viewing.

The tin with the sock was hidden behind the "E" key of Sapper's piano.
Pretty sure that the single note that K plays in the Vegas Casino is also an "E"?

When Deckard asks him why he is there, K says "I heard the Piano".

I love this damn movie so much.

Spoiler

"E" is also the first main note of the bladerunner opening theme.

Truly a lot of love went into this film.

 

[robotrock]

Came back from third viewing.

The tin with the sock was hidden behind the "E" key of Sapper's piano.
Pretty sure that the single note that K plays in the Vegas Casino is also an "E"?

When Deckard asks him why he is there, K says "I heard the Piano".

I love this damn movie so much.

Spoiler

"E" is also the first main note of the bladerunner opening theme.

I'm going to watch this ten more times before it leaves cinemas

 

[Theodoricos]

Watched Dark City and OG Blade Runner this weekend.

I really feel that Blade Runner 2049 enhances my experience watching Blade Runner 2019. I feel a lot more attached to Deckard's and Rachel's characters moreso then I did when I watched it as a standalone piece. I also feel I was able to appreciate 2019's ideas about how demonizing replicants can be, compared to how we see Officer K and his interactions with other replicants in 2049. 2049 feels like replicants are in abit more of a greyer area, where as 2019 the film seemed to paint them in more black/white strokes.

Wait, what? The entire point of noir is the grey area between the protagonist (the detective) and the antagonists (the criminals, or in this case the Replicants). OG BR explores the complex nature of the rebellious, murdering Replicants that are nonetheless slaves to humanity. The final scene with Roy bookends this beautifully - casting a new light on what we previously perceived as the enemy.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Just saw it and loved it.

But there is now way they thought this would make huge bank right?

Its so deliberately paced, the general movie going audince isnt conditioned for a movie like this.

No, its too slow, takes too long. Its not witty. Its not Guardians.

A shame because lets face it, this movie buries all Marvels even though some of them are absolutely solid movies.

In this day and age of fast cuts, slow mo action, witty one liners et al I found Blade Runner to be a god send. I was sitting there, kick back, just enjoying the cinematography, top notch acting and slower pace. I enjoyed the fuck out of every second and in the end thats what matters when I pay up.

On the flip side, no billion profit also means we don't get a universe with after credits scenes. And hopefully no answer on Deckard's being.