maquiladora
Member
The visuals and the sound - amazing.
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Blade Runner 2049 |OT| Do Androids Dream of Electric Boogaloo? [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
- Start date
Warm Machine
Member
No it wasnt. It was shot for the movie and intended to be in the edit. The director is the one who holds the vision for the film. He is he one that visualizes and moves production forward. Like it or not, the director is the vision holder.
Shit. This is good
Everybody should read it. Made me realize I missed a lot of themes presented in the film.
I gotta watch this film again now.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Even in the final cut, it's not definitive that Deckard's a replicant. Could simply be coincidence.
It's dumb and adds nothing to the story.
AdmiralSnackbar
Member
Saw this last night and loved it, I still don't really get what everyone's motivation was, and that might be because I never saw the first movie.
When Luv kills Robin Wright's character it looks like she is sort of going rogue. She has is attitude like she's mad at her for underestimating replicants, "of course none of us would ever lie to you", but later she doesn't hesitate to kill the Rachel replicant as soon as Deckard mentions the eye thing.
Robin Wright wanted the child dead because it would destroy society's perception on the human / replicant dynamic, but Wallace and Luv just wanted it to experiment with?
I also can't figure out what the scene with Wallace killing the newborn replicant was all about.
When Luv kills Robin Wright's character it looks like she is sort of going rogue. She has is attitude like she's mad at her for underestimating replicants, "of course none of us would ever lie to you", but later she doesn't hesitate to kill the Rachel replicant as soon as Deckard mentions the eye thing.
Robin Wright wanted the child dead because it would destroy society's perception on the human / replicant dynamic, but Wallace and Luv just wanted it to experiment with?
I also can't figure out what the scene with Wallace killing the newborn replicant was all about.
Sectorseven
Member
I thought it was leftover footage from Legend, which was filmed several years after Blade Runner?
Why cant they make memories from a human?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I guess they could, but I didn't think that was the assertion being made.
Gaff's got no connection to Tyrell though, why would his memories be involved?
Heckler456
Banned
You know, thinking about it: Wallace really wants replicants to be able to procreate. Luv sees him eviscerate one just because she's barren. Through some fucked up oedipal complex, she really wants to live up to Walllace's expectations. Maybe finding the child replicant is Luv's way to live up to that expectation of "being able to procreate"; of not being barren.
I was under the impression that all that stuff was an afterthought.
I know that the director is the one that holds the vision, but again, I was under the impression that along the years, he just sort of decided by himself that Deckard was supposed to be a replicant - and then added the unicorn scene to make that clear.
Heckler456
Banned
Replicants are basically humans I think. Just born from a bag or a vat or whatever.
The Bookerman
Member
Not to me, but it's simply my interpretation. There shouldn't be a definitive answer, to keep the mystique of the first movie.
I also don't think deckard really cares.
This is a myth. The unicorn footage was shot specifically for Blade Runner. There is good info on this in the doc Dangerous Days
Slackbladder
Member
Why not? Although yeah, not conclusive but it makes the Deckard is a replicant idea a little less solid, for me anyway. I can't imagine it's just lack of continuity. I'm sure all angles were covered.
But still, did Gaff know Deckard was a replicant (because of the unicorn origami)? And if he did why didn't he tell K? I certainly don't think there is a definitive answer but it sways my opinion into the Deckard is a human camp.
tonysidaway
Member
It's human DNA, albeit subject to some unspecified genetic engineering. These androids, or replicants as they are called in the film, are humans created for use as slaves.
I tend to think of Rick as human too, but there is a ready explanation of Gaff's silence.
K is a blade runner for LAPD and Rick was a colleague of Gaff. Gaff could have gone after Rick in 2019, but he didn't. Having held his peace for 30 years, why would he out Rick now, to a person who would hunt Rick down and kill him?
Incitemaybe
Member
About to go see this in an hour, I'm excited 😍
Robo-jizz sounded better than repli-jizz.
And yes, they made DNA a key part of the film.
Being able to mix with regular humans or with just with other replicants is basically where I'm thinking only replicants.
Though who knows.
Glass Shark
Banned
.
Robot Pants
Member
Ok going tomorrow morning for this very reason.
Such a quick run :/
tearsintherain
Member
I was debating as well, it leaves Dolby Digital/IMAX this week at all the theaters around me. I decided against it though, I've seen it twice and I don't really feel like sitting through it again.
I will definitely buy the blu ray and enjoy it a lot at home though in a few months. Hope it comes out before Christmas.
Now the real question is do I see GeoStorm on Friday 😐
Turbo Killer
Member
lol @ geostorm, every time I see that trailer I laugh at how stupid it looks, but now Im in the same boat as you Im thinking about watching it.
In no way are they androids
They are Engineered humans, there is no machinery inside of them, otherwise you wouldn't have needed the test to find hidden ones, you could use a scanner or something
Theodoricos
Member
Saw it for a second time.
My impression of the K/Joi romance scene has considerably improved. At first I thought it sort of overstayed its welcome, but I didn't have that feeling this time, weirdly enough. It's really well done - there's an ethereal quality to it I can't put into words. Also, Joi is actually a really good track for that scene.
However, some plot holes are even more glaring on a rewatch, which I'd appreciate someone clarifying for me in the case that I simply didn't fully understand the scenes.
Perhaps my biggest issue with the story is Luv stealing the bones and murdering that one guy without a single surveillance camera capturing the footage or a single guard stopping her. In a dystopian world where you've got surveillance lights and drones on every corner following your every move, it's almost funny how easy stealing from those files appears to be. It's like you can just walk right in and take what you want. And this was extremely sensitive information that she got away with, too.
Lt. Joshi believing K destroyed all traces of the child without any evidence also seems rather forced. Especially since he completely failed the baseline test, which at the very least should've cast some doubt on him.
Also, I'm not quite sure how Wallace came to realize that there is a child Replicant. Have Wallace and Luv bugged the police station and the forensics lab or something? Because that's the only explanation that I can see. He pretty quickly seemed to jump from "I still can't make Replicants bear children" to "Find the child".
My impression of the K/Joi romance scene has considerably improved. At first I thought it sort of overstayed its welcome, but I didn't have that feeling this time, weirdly enough. It's really well done - there's an ethereal quality to it I can't put into words. Also, Joi is actually a really good track for that scene.
However, some plot holes are even more glaring on a rewatch, which I'd appreciate someone clarifying for me in the case that I simply didn't fully understand the scenes.
Perhaps my biggest issue with the story is Luv stealing the bones and murdering that one guy without a single surveillance camera capturing the footage or a single guard stopping her. In a dystopian world where you've got surveillance lights and drones on every corner following your every move, it's almost funny how easy stealing from those files appears to be. It's like you can just walk right in and take what you want. And this was extremely sensitive information that she got away with, too.
Lt. Joshi believing K destroyed all traces of the child without any evidence also seems rather forced. Especially since he completely failed the baseline test, which at the very least should've cast some doubt on him.
Also, I'm not quite sure how Wallace came to realize that there is a child Replicant. Have Wallace and Luv bugged the police station and the forensics lab or something? Because that's the only explanation that I can see. He pretty quickly seemed to jump from "I still can't make Replicants bear children" to "Find the child".
brianmcdoogle
Member
Blade runner is leaving all fancy showtimes and theaters for me this Friday to be replaced by Geo storm and only the brave so I would suggest if anyone wants to go see it in 3-D or IMAX or whatever do so today or tomorrow!
tonysidaway
Member
The term android is not synonymous with mechanical humans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(robot)
The androids of the novel (the word is in the title) are indistinguishable from humans except through psychometric reaction tests like the Voight-Kampff test in the novel and the films, or a laborious bone marrow test in the novel only. The term replicant is used in the films, and can be assumed to synonymous with the term "android."
Rktk
Member
I have just come back from a second viewing, it held up well, I was emotional by the end, again.
One could assume that Wallace, with enough power to find out about the child in the first instance, would also be able to handle recorded security.
This is probably my biggest gripe, K says it's taken care of and Joshi gives a sigh of relieve just after he's failed his baseline to the point of likely getting terminated.
One could assume that Wallace, with enough power to find out about the child in the first instance, would also be able to handle recorded security.
This is probably my biggest gripe, K says it's taken care of and Joshi gives a sigh of relieve just after he's failed his baseline to the point of likely getting terminated.
He finds out when the police do, so we assume he has insider information / influence.
jellies_two
Member
I figured as joi said to the chief "because replicants can't lie, right?" That replicants were programmed not be able to lie?
Maybe in the future corporations are so dominant it wouldn't even matter that she was seen, she was untouchable.
Since the genetic record was tagged with an alert I figured Wallace knew it was a tyrell corp experiment with reproduction but didn't get confirm until he queried for it, and then perhaps bugged Joi to find out what he had found?
Just got back from seeing this. Its fantastic and you really need to see it in the cinema. The direction, visuals and audio really combine to create something very intense. Its definitely not an easy watch, very oppressive in parts, but I appreciated it immensely. Roll on Villeneuve's Dune!
The_Shepherd
Neo Member
I thought this was kinda strange at first too. If I had to guess, maybe she thought that his failing of the baseline test was a result of him killing the child. It had such an impact on him and so she assumed that he was being truthful when he told her he killed it, especially since he had displayed in front of her earlier in the film some concerns about having to kill something that was born. That or she just trusts him based on his past performances and that replicants aren't supposed to lie.
Also, great film I need some behind-the-scenes material to see all of the work that was done for the sets and visuals.
Theodoricos
Member
Thanks for the quick replies. I suppose these explanations about Wallace and Luv's power over the police make sense, considering that Tyrell Corporation had bugged even K's Joi (though Joi is their product, so that would be easier to do). I guess it might not have hurt to have some throwaway world-building line - by Lt. Joshi for example - about how difficult it would be to pursue action against the Tyrell Corporation, if she knew it was them. After all, in the scene between Lt. Joshi and Luv, before Luv kills her that is, Lt. Joshi seems to know (or realizes in that moment) that it was Luv who took the bones.
That does make sense, it's just that the scene ends a bit too quickly. Lt. Joshi should've been a bit more doubtful at first and asked some follow-up questions about the child and the circumstances surrounding its termination, especially considering how important of a task it was for maintaining order.
Joshi sees K express... disquiet on his orders to retire the baby: "I've never retired anything that's been born". He was never made for this, it's not really compatible with his purpose and programming but he still affirms her orders.
K returns to Joshi frazzled and failing his baseline test telling her he did the thing he was never engineered or programmed to do.
IMO to her, his mental state and baseline test failure is the result of acting on her orders which contravenes his purpose as a replicant- to only retire other replicants. Combine this with how Joshi thinks that Replicants can't lie and you get a picture of why she believed him and why her guilt motivated her to try to get K out of the building alive.
Edit: this is a world where a replicant breaking their programming and lying is a bigger stretch than him acting independently.
K returns to Joshi frazzled and failing his baseline test telling her he did the thing he was never engineered or programmed to do.
IMO to her, his mental state and baseline test failure is the result of acting on her orders which contravenes his purpose as a replicant- to only retire other replicants. Combine this with how Joshi thinks that Replicants can't lie and you get a picture of why she believed him and why her guilt motivated her to try to get K out of the building alive.
Edit: this is a world where a replicant breaking their programming and lying is a bigger stretch than him acting independently.
tonysidaway
Member
My UK city's main town centre cinema (Empire cinema, Sunderland) is dropping the 3D version from Friday 20th. Last weekend the film fell to number 2 in the UK behind Lego Ninjago, dropping in weekend revenue here from £6 million to £3 million.
I'll be surprised if the film is retained at my local past Thursday 26th. An audience of mainly male, older cinema-goers can't sustain a film release for long. A lot of schools in England and Wales have a half-term holiday coming up next week so it's a wonder Blade Runner 2049 isn't being rotated out in favour of a more child-friendly film this weekend.
Theodoricos
Member
Aside from what you said, I suppose the fact that Lt. Joshi and K had that heart-to-heart conversation (as much as it can be "heart-to-heart" considering their relationship) in which Lt. Joshi asks for K to tell her one of his memories helps mitigate the issue. It shows that K has been reliable and trustworthy for a long time that Lt. Joshi is able to relax around him and have that talk with him. This, combined with the "using a tool for a purpose it was not intended for" argument, is solid enough I suppose.
hendersonhank
Member
Aside from her working with K a long time and really trusting him, replicants are not supposed to be able to lie. Hence Luv's taunt before killing her. As for the baseline, she probably thought, not illogically, that it was killing "something that was born" that fucked K up.
I agree on everything else re: the police department. No surveillance, Luv walks in and out whenever she wants, blood all over the place, kills the chief, no problemo.
People gush about Sea Wall, but Joi is my favourite piece of music by far. Rain has a bit of the same motif as well.
Ethereal is a good word to describe the dynamic.
It's clear from their earlier scenes that Joshi harbours a soft spot for K. That clouds her judgement when K comes back with a failed baseline and she chose to believe that it's the secretive nature of his mission that's causing his erratic behaviour and not K deliberately hiding something from her. Going along with the ideas introduced in the film, it's also a case of hearing "everything you want to hear".
I personally don't have an issue with the police stuff. No one can touch Wallace, and by extension Luv.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Just got from watching the movie. Theater was packed (spain, but this last 3 days has been festival of movies were every ticket costs 2.90 euro no matter the theater you go)
Really liked it, the sound was amazing in the theater I watched, really am experience.
So what do people think about the AI waifu Joi? We know Ana de Armas in spain as she was one of the main actress of one of the first mystery/adventure series in Spain called El Internado (she was a (clearly grown up) high school girl on thay series, so if you want to watch her dressed with a hogwarts private school attire, just look for her on google).
As cute as she is I never thought she was a good actress on El Internado, but I really liked her a lot here, she did great and was sad when the villain brakes the portable disk were she is stored.
Really liked it, the sound was amazing in the theater I watched, really am experience.
So what do people think about the AI waifu Joi? We know Ana de Armas in spain as she was one of the main actress of one of the first mystery/adventure series in Spain called El Internado (she was a (clearly grown up) high school girl on thay series, so if you want to watch her dressed with a hogwarts private school attire, just look for her on google).
As cute as she is I never thought she was a good actress on El Internado, but I really liked her a lot here, she did great and was sad when the villain brakes the portable disk were she is stored.
I think Luv might be my favorite person in this movie. I had to look it up on youtube to see if this scene got a featurette and it did. It's so interesting how despite how enforcing she comes across she has "softer" side. As seen by her getting nails done with (hologram?) etchings of what looks like an elk/bambi to her shedding tears in times of violence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeuOYUSXyi8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeuOYUSXyi8
Heckler456
Banned
Fuck, when that bass kicks in.
I really liked her performance. She played all the facets of her character very well.
Theodoricos
Member
Most badass scene in the film by far. I got goosebumps the first time I saw the eye close-up and heard the softly spoken fire commands.
Did anyone else see that scene as a bit of a tongue-in-cheek play on the "enhance" sequence in the original, since people complained about it being boring?
I must have taken this scene entirely different to everyone else. I took this entire scene to mean what K thought without him uttering it, that he was the child. He said he had taken care of it, as in the evidence, but as far as I remember he never said "I found and killed the child". Joshi told him he has 48 hours to get away before people will come for him, and I took that to mean "this is the most I can get you without raising suspicion that I knew about this, but I'll do this for you". I think they understood each other fairly well and she clearly had a soft spot for him for his work for the department and although it's not "supposed" to be that way, she sees something unique in him. I didn't feel any different about this scene during my second viewing.
Also I agree about Luv, I found her character one of the most interesting parts about this movie.
Theodoricos
Member
I actually thought the scene with K analyzing the Las Vegas ruins before getting out of the vehicle was a closer equivalent to the "enhance" sequence. But this one also has shades of this, especially at the end after she's stopped firing.
For the record, I think all the "enhance" sequences are awesome.
jellies_two
Member
Speaking of bugging joi I find it incredibly naive of K to go to the makers of his own AI companion and get quizzed by luv intensely - he clearly maintains a nice blank face - then go home to and spill all the beans to the AI.
And keep talking right up until she advises him to break her transmitter because she is a risk to him.
That doesn't seem believable (that he isn't worried) for a savvy LAPD sub contractor who is told by the boss that the whole world is teetering on his mission.
I mean, shit, if I discovered a plot involving Amazon Inc and had to murder a child Bezos was potentially intensely interested in, would I go home and have a heart to heart with Alexa? Nope I would, at the very least, put it in a damn faraday cage.
And keep talking right up until she advises him to break her transmitter because she is a risk to him.
That doesn't seem believable (that he isn't worried) for a savvy LAPD sub contractor who is told by the boss that the whole world is teetering on his mission.
I mean, shit, if I discovered a plot involving Amazon Inc and had to murder a child Bezos was potentially intensely interested in, would I go home and have a heart to heart with Alexa? Nope I would, at the very least, put it in a damn faraday cage.
jack_package_200
Banned
Soooooooo...when do expect the Blu Ray to release?
Earliest I'm thinkin is January/Feburary
Earliest I'm thinkin is January/Feburary
I saw it twice too and made the same decision. Guess we'll just have to settle for a standard screening in a smaller auditorium if we want to see it in theaters one last time 😏
cantona222
Member
The visuals/art of the movie is very impressive. That alone makes it worth watching in theaters. However, I didn't like the story and the movie is too long and bored me at times.
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