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Breaking Bad - Season 5 interim thread - the series concludes Summer 2013 on AMC

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Walt thinks this is the real him, but it's still not totally believable. Like he's tryin really hard to be tough, an it's working. I get the feeling the facade will be completely shattered and he'll go back to powerless Mr. White.
 

big ander

Member
So my wife, who is a feminist, is a misogynist? lol Jesus fucking Christ.
Didn't say that, just said your argument was, well, bullshit. You can't counter "many skyler haters are misogynists" with "WELL, my WIFE hates Skyler! So. Case closed!" it's a shit argument that demonstrates you don't actually understand what's being discussed
Sorry my reasons don't add up with yours but god fucking damn, just because I don't like a character or her actions doesn't mean I'm a misogynist. Notice I didn't say that I thought Walt was correct. I assume that this argument of misogyny is predicated on people liking Walt and hating Skyler. I think Walt is a monster, but just because he's a monster doesn't mean that Skyler is some amazing character that was brought down by New Mexico's Scarface Jr. She's fucking annoying and irrational. She cheated on Walt, she's used his children against him, and I think she's probably the poorest written character out of the entire show besides her sister. But I guess cause I don't like her I'm a misogynist. Good to know.
Lol again keep throwing yourself on a cross like a good little martyr, but you're missing what the actual argument here is: that many skyler haters are misogynists. because they can't justify their hate for her beyond "she is a BITCH I hate when she get in walt's way he is trying to HELP HIS FAMILY" which is a full-on misreading of the show in so many ways. if you think your reasons for hating the character are justified and not sexist: good for you! post them and try to be reasonable.
For instance, what about her do you find annoying? Her being frustrated at her husband disappearing for days and lying about where he's going and finally revealing he's deep in the drug business and is putting his family in danger? Why does her frustration annoy you? Or what is it about her that annoys you?
What about this irrationality? I'd argue that her actions are completely rational considering her situation: she's backed into a corner by a husband who refuses to be reasonable and talk with her. He manipulates her constantly. He lies, he blows up. Oh, and he cooks meth. And criminals are after him. I'd be pretty fucking scared.
How about using the children. Honestly, where has she done this? I can think of examples where she's moved them to try and protect them from her drug-chef husband. I can think of examples where Walt has used the kids, like how he constantly plays the good guy in front of them so their mother looks like a shrew and they crawl to him, unaware of the awful shit he's done. But I can't think of when she's done something with the children solely to hurt Walt.
Poorly written: general complaint that you haven't backed up.
Besides her sister: what do you think is poorly written about Marie?

So if you wanna respond to any of those, explain how your opinion differs and isn't based on gender, awesome. I'll read any arguments. But know I haven't seen very many reasonable ones...ever. Surprise me.
"I know lots of women who hate Sklyar too!" is a weak argument, but apparently "everyone who hates this particular television character is a misogynist" is bulletproof logic.
Again not what anyone is saying in here, but do continue to martyr yourself!
For me, understanding Skyler's role and why she is the way she is is a crucial part of understanding Walt himself. Walt was a man with a certain ambition and as that floundered (because of his pride, likely), they settled into a mundane 9-to-5 existence. Skyler represented in a way that part of his life that reminded him of his failure, of his mediocre life.

What follows for me would be the way it would devolve in a normal relationship. Why wouldn't Skyler constantly hound Walt for lying? Why wouldn't she be furious considering she has a kid with Cerebral Palsy and a new baby on the way? Why wouldn't it shock her that the man who before was a simple chemistry teacher turned out to be cooking meth? Why wouldn't she stand in the way of that at times? How else is she supposed to react?

Anna Gunn's performance is perhaps not the most nuanced, but her character is acting -precisely- how most normal people in that situation would react (right up until the moment she decided to go along with the money laundering). In fact, I was constantly hoping she would find Walt out early on, because of the danger he was putting his families life in.

She fucked Ted because in her position she felt it was one of the few ways she could exercise a sort of power to take advantage of Walt. When we see later in the show how trapped she really is, it's no surprise she handles this the way she does. It wasn't even like it was an affair, at that point things were starting to unravel and frankly Walt deserved it. But even if he didn't, doesn't it make sense from a character perspective that an increasingly desperate individual who found how such a shocking thing would make decisions that seem at times impulsive?

Anyway, this is an open-ended comment, but hating Skyler isn't misogynistic. The REASON some people hate Skyler certainly is, given the debates I got into with people on NeoGAF alone :D
All this pretty much.
 
I said it before and I'll say it again.


If you hate Skyler because Skyler is the only character to date that has been able to obstruct or even slow Walt down (whereas he overcomes everyone else from Tuco to Gus to Mike to Jesse to even Hank til now), then that's fine. You are openly rooting for Walt to be successful, which is your right, and Skyler stands in the way.

But if you hate Skyler because she's a "bitch," or a "ball-buster" or "had an affair," or seems "mean" or "controlling" or anything of the sort, then that's a misogynist take.

I'm even okay if you find her scenes boring but if you actually hate who Skyler is as a person, I'm sorry there's something wrong about that.

Misogyny has nothing to do with hating a female character but rather the reason for it. FFS, if you think Skyler is a bitch, god help you if you meet a real bitch (male or female). Skyler's big flaw is that she's too protective of the people she love. She should have divorced and turned Walt in when she had the chance.
 

Gobias

Banned
Hating Skyler because she had an affair is the one thing I have a problem with. I mean, yes, she chose a fuck mate very poorly, but saying she's a bitch because of it? She wanted a divorce, but Walt is an asshole and wouldn't let her get one. She doesn't love Walt, and she was just trying to get him out of her life.
 

10dollas

Banned
Lol again keep throwing yourself on a cross like a good little martyr, but you're missing what the actual argument here is: that many skyler haters are misogynists. because they can't justify their hate for her beyond "she is a BITCH I hate when she get in walt's way he is trying to HELP HIS FAMILY" which is a full-on misreading of the show in so many ways. if you think your reasons for hating the character are justified and not sexist.

So unjustified hate resulting from someone empathizing with the protagonist and getting frustrated with character obstacles is automatically sexist/misogynistic? That's a mighty leap in logic there.

oh and edit: On a side note, unilaterally calling people misogynist is such fantastic troll bait. I don't understand why anonymous people fall victim to this so easily and so voluntarily. If there is the slightest inference that someone may be misogynist it suddenly becomes tantamount that one defends oneself from this defamation/attack on ones chivalrous character. Yet, the word is thrown around so haphazardly that it loses all legitimacy. People need to stop worrying about falsely/lazily thrown around labels so much. Hell, call me misogynist, see if I give two fucks. I'll just facetiously agree with you and play along...
 
Literally the only reason i've heard in real life why friends hate skyler is because she is a bitch/cunt, so yes it's pretty hard for me to accept misogyny isn't a large part for the hate. I've read good arguments against her on here, but i still think without her this show isn't nearly as good. The only wrong thing she did was letting him back in/money laundering in S4.
 
Literally the only reason i've heard in real life why friends hate skyler is because she is a bitch/cunt, so yes it's pretty hard for me to accept misogyny isn't a large part for the hate. I've read good arguments against her on here, but i still think without her this show isn't nearly as good. The only wrong thing she did was letting him back in/money laundering in S4.
so people who can't stand skyler hate women? because they didn't use gender neutral terms to describe how her character is chock full of abrasive undesirable properties? would you rather they call her a poopyhead or something?
 

BigAT

Member
This thread...

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so people who can't stand skyler hate women? because they didn't use gender neutral terms to describe how her character is chock full of abrasive undesirable properties? would you rather they call her a poopyhead or something?

There are female characters that are bitches. Skyler isn't one of them.

If you think Skyler is a bitch, you have a misogynist outlook on women, IMO.
 

Amir0x

Banned
so people who can't stand skyler hate women? because they didn't use gender neutral terms to describe how her character is chock full of abrasive undesirable properties? would you rather they call her a poopyhead or something?

Well, describe on your terms what about Skyler makes her an inherently negative character and why you dislike her. I'm still waiting to hear an argument about why people hate her other than

a.) "She stands in Walt's way!" (which, I mean, is fine and not necessarily misogynist, just means you want Walt the child poisoning murderer monster to succeed. Which is fine, but I think in real life, most people would stand in Walt's way).

b.) She's a bitch/she complaints too much (which is straight up 'get back in the kitchen' talk most of the time; this is misogynist)
 

Bigfoot

Member
But if you hate Skyler because she's a "bitch," or a "ball-buster" or "had an affair," or seems "mean" or "controlling" or anything of the sort, then that's a misogynist take.
Hating somewhere for having an affair is by no means a "misogynist take". I'm not sure what world you live in but lots of people look down on people that have affairs, man or women. The reason for doing it doesn't matter. Nothing wrong with hating someone for being mean either.

Yes, in before "but but they were on a break".
 
Enough with the Skyler talk, what do you guys think the "Fly" episode?

Loved the episode. I think it was pretty huge in terms of Walt's character. It was the moment he realized that he was in over his head.

Hating somewhere for having an affair is by no means a "misogynist take". I'm not sure what world you live in but lots of people look down on people that have affairs, man or women. The reason for doing it doesn't matter. Nothing wrong with hating someone for being mean either.

Yes, in before "but but they were on a break".

I'm sorry, but in what world did she have an affair? She already served him with divorce papers and asked him to sign them which he refused. She only slept with Ted after Walt broke back into the house, refused to leave, and asserted domination over her because he knew she wouldn't tell the police about the meth. What she did was not an affair it was her only mode of asserting some kind of control back against Walt's savagery.

It's not even right to argue "they were on a break." They were not. At that moment, the marriage was over. In fact, it's been over since that time and has been over until possibly the very end of the first half of season 5.

And Skyler isn't mean at all. Everyone else is mean to her. Walt, Ted, Marie have all done vicious things to her.

If you think Skyler is mean, that must mean you think 99% of women are mean.
 

Mr.Swag

Banned
Gaf, is the golden age of TV drama coming to an end? This is ending soon, Mad Men should be ending soon as well, lost ended, the shield ended, the wire ended, sopranos ended,The Bridge was disappointing, I don't see any shows replacing these.
Anything I missed?
 

EBCubs03

Banned
Gaf, is the golden age of TV drama coming to an end? This is ending soon, Mad Men should be ending soon as well, lost ended, the shield ended, the wire ended, sopranos ended,The Bridge was disappointing, I don't see any shows replacing these.
Anything I missed?

I don't know why you're putting Lost in that list but yes I have similar feelings. After these 8 episodes of breaking bad I don't have much left to watch. I'll probably start on all the films I missed over this past decade
 
There's lots of stuff.

I don't think "the Golden Age" is going to end, personally. Basically, this will likely become the dominant form of filmed storytelling for serious-minded writers/directors going forward.
 
Well, describe on your terms what about Skyler makes her an inherently negative character and why you dislike her. I'm still waiting to hear an argument about why people hate her other than

a.) "She stands in Walt's way!" (which, I mean, is fine and not necessarily misogynist, just means you want Walt the child poisoning murderer monster to succeed. Which is fine, but I think in real life, most people would stand in Walt's way).

b.) She's a bitch/she complaints too much (which is straight up 'get back in the kitchen' talk most of the time; this is misogynist)
I don't really have a problem with her character myself, I just have a problem with blanket misogyny accusations solely based on the fact that someone isn't using gender neutral terms to describe someone's personality, and bold declarations such as "There are female characters that are bitches. Skyler isn't one of them."
 
I don't really have a problem with her character myself, I just have a problem with blanket misogyny accusations solely based on the fact that someone isn't using gender neutral terms to describe someone's personality, and bold declarations such as "There are female characters that are bitches. Skyler isn't one of them."

That statement is the opposite of bold. It is plain.
 

demolitio

Member
I don't hate Skyler. I don't like her either. She's just a tragic character in the story really...

But to generalize EVERYONE that dislikes her as misogyny in action is absolutely absurd and nothing but pure sensationalism. Sure, it might be a factor for SOME people, but to make that statement about everyone here is pretty low and isn't doing anything to change people's minds.

I don't like a lot of characters of various races, cultures, genders (well, two...), ages, demographics, etc. That doesn't automatically make me a bigot in any way without understanding WHY someone might dislike a character. I know people like to be edgy and emotional these days, but not EVERYTHING is related to some sort of prejudice for crying out loud.

We all have opinions but that doesn't make you a better person than anyone else here just because you like a character they don't. Let's get real here...No one's view of a character is 100% right to where everyone else has to be wrong about them. If you disagree with someone, that doesn't make them a bigot of any kind.

Anyway, I can't wait for 5.5 to start simply so I can see Dean Norris in his proper role again. Seeing him in Under the Dome is messing with me too much considering the type of character he plays. He's got to be my favorite character on BB afterall...
 

psykomyko

Member
Fifty-One is one of the freakiest episodes ever. I hate watching Walt chase Skyler around the room telling her that she'll never win. It's horrifying. Walt's a fucking monster.

And Anna Gunn is a fine actress.

That scene was fantastic. One of my favorite episodes of the whole series.
 
That scene was fantastic. One of my favorite episodes of the whole series.

Same.


And again, no one has argued hating skyler is mysoginist or that you can't dislike her. This is a straw man. People have only pointed out the mysoginist reasons given by some people for disliking her. Others have had valid reasons.
 
I don't hate Skyler. I don't like her either. She's just a tragic character in the story really...

But to generalize EVERYONE that dislikes her as misogyny in action is absolutely absurd and nothing but pure sensationalism.

I don't disagree, but nobody is doing that in this thread, though.
 

ezekial45

Banned
Gaf, is the golden age of TV drama coming to an end? This is ending soon, Mad Men should be ending soon as well, lost ended, the shield ended, the wire ended, sopranos ended,The Bridge was disappointing, I don't see any shows replacing these.
Anything I missed?
Hannibal, Hannibal, Hannibal, Hannibal.

I can't recommend this show enough, the first season was marvelous. It's my go-to show after Breaking Bad is done.
 

demolitio

Member
Hannibal, Hannibal, Hannibal, Hannibal.

I can't recommend this show enough, the first season was marvelous. It's my go-to show after Breaking Bad is done.

Agreed. I expected it to suck just like everything else that's come out recently, but it was surprisingly well done. It's amazing how ballsy they were on national TV too.

At least Sons of Anarchy is starting soon too.
 

squidyj

Member
Gaf, is the golden age of TV drama coming to an end? This is ending soon, Mad Men should be ending soon as well, lost ended, the shield ended, the wire ended, sopranos ended,The Bridge was disappointing, I don't see any shows replacing these.
Anything I missed?

Rectify was great, can't wait for more of that.
 

big ander

Member
So unjustified hate resulting from someone empathizing with the protagonist and getting frustrated with character obstacles is automatically sexist/misogynistic? That's a mighty leap in logic there.

oh and edit: On a side note, unilaterally calling people misogynist is such fantastic troll bait.
jeeze do you people use the term "protagonist" incorrectly. protagonist is by definition someone you're supposed to fully identify with; the show has gone out of its way to divorce us from aligning with walt. we identify with elements of him sure, but we have never been rooting for him. since like, Gray Matter, you shouldn't really have been rooting for him. at least, that's the reading I've taken from the show. And many others have taken, it seems. If you want to argue that we're supposed to be rooting for him to poison kids and endanger his infant daughter and lock his wife in an emotionally taxing marriage and manipulate a man who treats him like a father, I'd love to read that argument. see what about the show has convinced you that that is a logical reading. at the moment I don't really see it, but I bet it's feasible.

the problem is that I haven't really seen that argument, still, after pages and pages (and that's just in this thread, the bb threads have been–i guess this word works–plagued by this argument for seasons now). Once again that doesn't mean I'm calling everyone who hates skyler sexist. unilaterally calling people misogynist is literally the thing I said I wasn't doing? I was observing, like many others, that a ton of skyler hate I run into appears to be rooted in nothing more than misogyny because those viewers can do nothing to provide even a shred of further justification for disliking skyler. Like I said in the very post that you quoted if you can provide that justification then good for you
Gaf, is the golden age of TV drama coming to an end? This is ending soon, Mad Men should be ending soon as well, lost ended, the shield ended, the wire ended, sopranos ended,The Bridge was disappointing, I don't see any shows replacing these.
Anything I missed?
No, it's moving off actual television though. cable is going to cater to smaller and smaller niches, continually specializing, as broadcast continues to turn out more and more homogenous content. maybe the reality tv cycle will end, maybe it will only grow larger.
meanwhile better and better internet "tv" infrastructure is going to develop and quality content will frequently turn up there, where the form can be played with more and artists can sort of pick and choose what televisual elements they want to utilize to tell their stories. (by this I kind of mean that, when most people discuss netflix originals or whatever, they say "this allows them to say 'i want to make 10 hour long episodes and no more'" and stuff like that. but I'm imagining that, on the alternate end, someone could want to use the indefinite seriality of television to tell their story best and would produce some cheap show with no end date and no number of seasons, just continual short episodes on and on for years, open-ended, until they find their ending.)
I dunno. this is all crackpot theory. but basically what I'm expecting is for TV to get more radically good in smaller niches. buuuuut if you were looking for like, specific shows as opposed to conjecture–I can't help ya. woefully behind on what's going on in TV, really. Need to watch Hannibal, Orphan Black, Top of the Lake, so much more.
 
Again not what anyone is saying in here, but do continue to martyr yourself!

Wait, that's not right, I could've sworn that THIS:

many skyler haters are misogynists. because they can't justify their hate for her beyond "she is a BITCH I hate when she get in walt's way he is trying to HELP HIS FAMILY"

was really the actual thing that nobody was saying in here.

Oh wait no, I see you've already found a way to ignore all the valid criticisms and conveniently transform them into the strawman above. Impressive work!

So if you wanna respond to any of those, explain how your opinion differs and isn't based on gender, awesome. I'll read any arguments. But know I haven't seen very many reasonable ones...ever.

So let me get this straight:

1.) You claim that people who hate Skylar for the wrong reasons are misogynists
2.) You you say you haven't ever seen any reasonable non-misogynistic arguments for disliking Sklyar...ever.
3.) You claim that nobody is saying that all Skylar haters are necessarily misogynists.... except for you of course, since considering claims 1 and 2, it logically follows that that's exactly what you're saying.

But don't mind me, I'll just continue martyring myself here in a corner. Feel free to continue your valiant crusade against the perceived misogyny of discussion forum posters against television characters.
 
D

Deleted member 57681

Unconfirmed Member
Someone know if there will be a complete S5 DVD/Blu box?
 
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