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[Chobel]

Welcome to the future. In 2015, holograms are real

Spoiler

with limited FoV

.

Damn! I have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[Neuromancer]

An (unfunny) attempt to pile on after what George said?

I thought it was funny. But here's a more detailed reason I posted it. I would think that if you're a developer relations team that is getting criticized for forcing developers to meet with you and sign NDAs just get around your own policy that restricts them from bringing their games to your platform, that you wouldn't make tweets joking about (presumably) those secret meetings.

 

[GayForMaster]

In light of Shovel Night's release on Xbone much later than PS4's, does this pretty much mean the parity clause has been destroyed? If not, then in the process of being destroyed or just regarded as something not worth caring about anymore?

Unless the clause applies to launch games then nevermind. Outlast and Shovel Night were not launch I believe.

 

[FranXico]

In light of Shovel Night's release on Xbone much later than PS4's, does this pretty much mean the parity clause has been destroyed? If not, then in the process of being destroyed or just regarded as something not worth caring about anymore?

Unless the clause applies to launch games then nevermind. Outlast and Shovel Night were not launch I believe.

All indies are equal, but some are more equal than others.

 

[LiquidSolid]

That's a really interesting analysis he's done there. Most interesting of all are the ten points he suggests to improve XBLA and make it more appealing for indie games:

To survive:
1. Create a fair contract that doesn’t require negotiation
- Obviously not happened, hence the whole 'talk to us' narrative
2. Solve the content discovery problem.
- I don't have an Xbone so can't talk about that. Although I have read that finding indie games has not got easier since MS disbanded the XBLA label.
3. Stop requiring independent developers to publish through MGS.
- This has happened.
4. Drop the TCRs, make updating easy.
- I don't know what TCRs are, although I don't think there are any costs for patches/updates any more.
5. Get rid of the exclusivity requirement for independent developers.
- Again, not happened as this is the 'first class' thingy they push with ID@Xbox.

To thrive:
1. Drop the greenlight process and open up development to everyone.
- I guess this has happened?
2. Make every console a dev kit.
- Not happened and I don't think they're doing this any more, right?
3. Automate everything.
- No idea but I doubt it.
4. Drop the ESRB in favor of a self administered rating system.
- No idea about ESRB but on PSN UK all games have a PEGI rating, so I imagine it's the same deal for XBL
5. Make avatar related requirements optional.
- I guess this has happened? I mean, they still want exclusive content for games on their platform, but it doesn't appear to be mandatory.

Basically the summary of his findings was that XBLA was the hardest platform to develop for and MS sat on its laurels for too long when it was at the top of the pile and Steam/iOS stole its lunch.

TCRs == Certification

If they were the outliers then wouldn't I be hearing from more people that the experience has been poor?

Not like anything is keeping the dev from lying to me or anything mind you

You think you're better connected than George Broussard? That's cute.

 

[RedSparrows]

2. Solve the content discovery problem.
- I don't have an Xbone so can't talk about that. Although I have read that finding indie games has not got easier since MS disbanded the XBLA label.

I'm not really sure where this comes from. There's an 'All Games' tab, for starters, and a dedicated 'ID@Xbox' list of releases with a cutoff of some months (or something). Plus any new game is listed in 'new releases', and then there's tiles on the Home and Store pages about particular games, or groups there of.

The XBox UI is hardly perfect, far from it, but I get the impression some people are chimps. Seriously.

 

[Steverulez]

I thought this whole thread, and many others, rested upon devs making vocal complaints?

It does, I said "less likely" not "no-one ever says them ever". As far as I can see, a lot of people making vocal complaints are those that havent launched yet (Chubigans, Ravi and others whether via Gaf or something like the Broforce article) who want MS to change their policy rather than developers who have or are about to launch games.

Thats not a criticism of the people being vocal btw, just an observation.

I thought it was funny. But here's a more detailed reason I posted it. I would think that if you're a developer relations team that is getting criticized for forcing developers to meet with you and sign NDAs just get around your own policy that restricts them from bringing their games to your platform, that you wouldn't make tweets joking about (presumably) those secret meetings.

E3 is round the corner, I think you're looking into it way too much.

 

[pastrami]

In light of Shovel Night's release on Xbone much later than PS4's, does this pretty much mean the parity clause has been destroyed? If not, then in the process of being destroyed or just regarded as something not worth caring about anymore?

Unless the clause applies to launch games then nevermind. Outlast and Shovel Night were not launch I believe.

Shovel Knight is too big a game to reject. But some random unproven indie team? XBox first or else. Unless your title gets big. Then we'll roll out the red carpet.

At least, I think that's the prevailing theory.

 

[RedSparrows]

In light of Shovel Night's release on Xbone much later than PS4's, does this pretty much mean the parity clause has been destroyed? If not, then in the process of being destroyed or just regarded as something not worth caring about anymore?

Unless the clause applies to launch games then nevermind. Outlast and Shovel Night were not launch I believe.

Shovel Knight released 1 week later on X1. Both versions had unique content, asfaik.

 

[RexNovis]

What on earth is going on here?

1) If the game is delayed, it's delayed. That happens. Winter 2014 release postponed, it's now May 2015. Could be out next month, could be 2 years. This happens.

2) This kind of speculation is nonsense. The game has not been released.

Google? http://wulverblade.com/blog/

What are you even talking about? I was explaining my thought process upon seeing their release tag at the end of the video. Your outrageously confrontational defensiveness is totally unnecessary and uncalled for. The game looks cool hence why I'm surprised I've never heard of it before. Fuck's sake I make a comment about a developer overshooting their publicly announced release timeline by nearly an entire year and people jump on me like I've said something fallacious or libelous.

In light of Shovel Night's release on Xbone much later than PS4's, does this pretty much mean the parity clause has been destroyed? If not, then in the process of being destroyed or just regarded as something not worth caring about anymore?

Unless the clause applies to launch games then nevermind. Outlast and Shovel Night were not launch I believe.

Pretty much this

All indies are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Some indies are special (read: acclaimed) enough to get exceptions which are NDAd so that others don't get any bright ideas of being treated the same way.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

In light of Shovel Night's release on Xbone much later than PS4's, does this pretty much mean the parity clause has been destroyed? If not, then in the process of being destroyed or just regarded as something not worth caring about anymore?

Unless the clause applies to launch games then nevermind. Outlast and Shovel Night were not launch I believe.

Shovel Knight was released a week apart, I think you mean Rogue Legacy(?)

You think you're better connected than George Broussard? That's cute.

Yep, I definitely said that

 

[Chobel]

The people I've talked to that launched games have said that it is a good experience, but heck, what do they know about the game they launched

I will add from what I hear they are a bit understaffed though, and with over 1000 devs making games, I'm sure that doesn't help

Can you give us an idea how many devs contacted you (or you contacted them)?

 

[LiquidSolid]

In light of Shovel Night's release on Xbone much later than PS4's, does this pretty much mean the parity clause has been destroyed? If not, then in the process of being destroyed or just regarded as something not worth caring about anymore?

Unless the clause applies to launch games then nevermind. Outlast and Shovel Night were not launch I believe.

Shovel Knight arrived on Xbone a week after PS4 and the parity clause has always been a rule that Microsoft enforces arbitrarily depending on the game. That's why they keep saying "talk to us," and then hide those talks behind NDAs. Some indie devs are denied entirely, some get a free pass and others are forced to include new content in their games based on Microsoft's demands.

Nothing has changed and they've made it perfectly clear they have no intention of doing so. They'll ride out all the bad publicity they get, give out exceptions left and right for now and wait until they're in a position of strength, when they can once again wield it as a weapon and force indies to go Xbox timed exclusive just to get on their platform. You know, the same bullshit they pulled with XBLA.

Yep, I definitely said that

Why try to place doubt on what he said based entirely on your anecdotal evidence then?

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Can you give us an idea how many devs contacted you (or you contacted them)?

So let me clarify,

The understaffed comments are from what I have seen other people post about on Twitter, not personal things told to me.

As for devs saying they have had good experiences, I would say maybe 20 or so. Conversations just stem from me being a game reviewer and having small talk with them at trade shows like PAX. When I can speak to an unknown dev, with no prior success to show for, say that his experience has been amazing, then it makes me roll my eyes when the excuse of "oh you're only saying it has been good because you are an exclusive game or a big named indie!" What do these small guys benefit from lying to me? Could they be? Sure

Edit: as I typed this I saw this tweet also: https://twitter.com/bigpixelstudios/status/601029344782327808

I've also been pretty vocal about what I think ID@Xbox has been doing wrong, mainly revolving around the parity clause, so don't get some idea that I'm sticking up for MS here. I'm mainly just saying that I think experiences can vary, and thinking that the overall consensus that ID is a mess just doesn't seem to add up with conversations with the developers in the program.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Why try to place doubt on what he said based entirely on your anecdotal evidence then?

Im placing doubt in the blanket statement of the program where he insinuates that it's some huge mess that people that have positive experiences must just be having them because they are an exclusive game or a big named indie.

I don't doubt that experiences vary and that some people have been very displeased, Rav is a fine example of that in this very thread. I get that.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

In light of Shovel Night's release on Xbone much later than PS4's, does this pretty much mean the parity clause has been destroyed? If not, then in the process of being destroyed or just regarded as something not worth caring about anymore?

Unless the clause applies to launch games then nevermind. Outlast and Shovel Night were not launch I believe.

The clause is often dismissed for popular games which have sold lots and had lots of hype on other platforms. Plus, Shovel Knight had an extensive three-stage boss battle with the Battletoads.

 

[miserable]

All indies are equal, but some are more equal than others.

#notallindies

 

[Goodacre0081]

No need for cheap shots like that.

Anyways, I'd be curious to know who else that developer has worked with. I'm sure Olive Garden is amazing if the only other place you eat at is McDonalds. Not that it's impossible that Microsoft could be treating an indie developer well. But I'd be more inclined to take the word of someone who has worked with the other platform holders over one who has had just one experience to call upon.

ask Jonathan Blow
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/411589410304425985

 

[Triggerhappytel]

ask Jonathan Blow
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/411589410304425985

I mean sure, but that was quite a few years ago now and it doesn't seem that they're as harsh any more. It would be interesting to hear from a developer who worked with MS at the height of XBLA about five years ago, and then who have worked with them again this generation. I'm thinking someone like Playdead or Capy, but then we couldn't trust in getting an honest opinion from either of them for at least a couple of years.

I do find it quite ironic that all three of the developers who featured in Indie Game: The Movie no longer want to work with MS.

 

[keit4]

Tweet

*Bump*

So subtle, Bundy.

 

[myharlequin]

Well at least MS with the Parity Clause is making the developers to think of a "strategy".
Without the parity clause this is going to happen:

- Choose PS4 and if you get revenues then go to the XB1.

With the Parity:
- Work hard to go simultaneous
- Go first XB1 and then PS4
- Go first PS4 but when you release to XB1 add some relevant stuff, or cheaper

This sucks but works most of the time. Some Indies were released cheaper in the XB1 (as if the game were released the same date)

Please do not think that I agree with this but If we think about it with MS eyes maybe it is a good move.

At the end of the day maybe this will be the formula to follow:
(Release your game exclusive to the PS4 and sell 70% of your possible sales) VS
(Make a strategy to approach the 100% of sales (XB1&PS4))

 

[Steverulez]

This is going to go down like a lead balloon, but the cricket is on and I'm playing Rayman so here goes:

Gaming Bolt 7th May 2014: MouseCraft, The Swapper, Titan Attacks Not Coming to Xbox One Due to ID@Xbox Parity Clause - Link

Microsoft’s ID@Xbox program, which is responsible for bringing indie titles to the Xbox One, may have a wide range of titles scheduled for the next few months but some developers are still avoiding it due to the parity clause. Speaking to Digital Spy, Curve Digital’s managing director Jason Perkins says it’s the reason that titles like MouseCraft, The Swapper and Titan Attacks won’t be on the Xbox One.

18th May 2015: The Swapper coming to Xbox One 5th June - Link

Having launched for PlayStation platforms last year and on PC before that, Curve Digital will be bringing The Swapper to Xbox One in June, courtesy of developer Facepalm Games. You can get better acquainted with the game in the old PlayStation trailer below.

21st May 2015: Mousecraft coming to Xbox One - Youtube

MouseCraft - the ultimate game of cat and mouse, developed by Crunching Koalas, will squeak onto Xbox One in the 3rd quarter of 2015. MouseCraft is an A to B puzzle game where players help mice in their relentless quest for cheese by stacking the world's most famous blocks: Tetrominos. And most importantly - it's pretty edam good..

I don't really have much to say, just thought it was interesting. Intrigued by The Swapper

 

[SEGAvangelist]

This is going to go down like a lead balloon, but the cricket is on and I'm playing Rayman so here goes:

Gaming Bolt 7th May 2014: MouseCraft, The Swapper, Titan Attacks Not Coming to Xbox One Due to ID@Xbox Parity Clause - Link



18th May 2015: The Swapper coming to Xbox One 5th June - Link



21st May 2015: Mousecraft coming to Xbox One - Youtube



I don't really have much to say, just thought it was interesting. Intrigued by The Swapper

I wonder what changed.

 

[PhatSaqs]

I wonder what changed.

Talking is the red pill.

 

[Beautiful Ninja]

I wonder what changed.

Microsoft caught win of the bad press from the first article and decided to try to save face and give these devs permission to release on XB1? Seems like one of the best ways to get your indie game released on XB1 is to call them out on the parity clause publicly.

 

[hawk2025]

Guys, we are months past the "but THESE games came out after!" phase of the discussion.

 

[John Bender]

*Bump*

So subtle, Bundy.

He's a WWE legend!

 

[Neuromancer]

This is going to go down like a lead balloon, but the cricket is on and I'm playing Rayman so here goes:

Gaming Bolt 7th May 2014: MouseCraft, The Swapper, Titan Attacks Not Coming to Xbox One Due to ID@Xbox Parity Clause - Link



18th May 2015: The Swapper coming to Xbox One 5th June - Link



21st May 2015: Mousecraft coming to Xbox One - Youtube



I don't really have much to say, just thought it was interesting. Intrigued by The Swapper

It's great those games are coming to Xbox One. (Especially The Swapper which I think you will enjoy.) But the intention of the clause is to strong arm developers into releasing on Xbox One first, which still sucks. Just because a few developers managed to find their way around it, doesn't make it ok.

 

[funkystudent]

The strategy of "Make the safe bet of putting your resources into a PS4 and PC version. Try and probably fail to get game on Xbox at a later date. Make a stink on twitter about ID@Xbox issues. Wait for MS to do damage control and make the call to let you on the platform" seems to be the way to go.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

This is going to go down like a lead balloon, but the cricket is on and I'm playing Rayman so here goes:

Gaming Bolt 7th May 2014: MouseCraft, The Swapper, Titan Attacks Not Coming to Xbox One Due to ID@Xbox Parity Clause - Link



18th May 2015: The Swapper coming to Xbox One 5th June - Link



21st May 2015: Mousecraft coming to Xbox One - Youtube



I don't really have much to say, just thought it was interesting. Intrigued by The Swapper

It will be interesting to see if they launch with exclusive content.
If they do launch with exclusive content we will now know the parity clause, forces developers to work more on their game to earn a spot on Xbox One. Which is what Bish is angry about, no developer should work more to earn money they would have gotten anyway.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

The Swapper is great. It's isolated and atmospheric and creepy and I recommend everyone give it a try. Reminded me of creepy isolated sci-fi films like Sunshine, Silent Running, Moon, etc.