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[Squeak]

Maybe the Spectrum/other platform ports. Most Native C64 games were too bloody low res to be ahead of anything in terms of graphics ;P

What it lacked in resolution it more than made up for in flexibility IMO. You weren't confined to having the screen composed of square 8x8 character blocks picked from the ROM, where a lot of them had to repeat because of hardwired memory limitations.
Respecting the colours per block limitation of the VIC, you could place anything anywhere. Also if you were willing to go with more colour limitations, you could have higher res than NES (320x200).
This allowed for some pretty detailed games such as Elite and Head Over Heels.
Also you can mix resolutions per scanline and per sprite if need be.
The scrolling of the C64 was much better. 4 way scrolling could be made butter smooth, while it required extra hardware on the NES.
In theory the NES could do far more sprites but few games actually use them...
The C64 had higher resolution sprites.

To fully appreciate the difference between an (unassisted) NES game and a C64 game made by people adept at the machine, you really have to see them in motion and play them.

And again, it can't be said too many times: The SID destroys the NES soundchip!

 

[Lord Helmet]

Hi Nintendo,
Still no real storage solution, and obnoxious price points?... No thanks!
I probably would have bought another 15 games or so by now if it weren't for this nonsense.

 

[jarrod]

That's not exactly what market forces indicate. An honest attempt to do a market comparison would also look at comparable digital distribution services -- and whether it's Xbox Live Arcade, PSN, or a rental service like GameTap, the Wii's price range is far above the norm. And while it's true that it's offering a greater quantity of options than, at least, the first two, that's not exactly a reality that gives the system carte blanche to be so high over the others in pricing. The fact that Virtual Console's sales are so anemic compared to these others is grounds in support of this. And sales are the ultimate arbiter of what the market is saying.

No, looking at actual market forces would be evaluating the returns and performance from all competitive retro services, not just pricepoints. The argument could be made that competitors are undervaluing their pricepoints for competitive reasons, especially if Virtual Console titles are still performing well comparatively.

Still, the used market likely gives the best indication for actual value per game, as pricepoints there are literally set by the market itself (unlike Gametap, Xbox Originals, PS Classics, Virtual Console, Woomb, etc).

There's really absolutely no reason why the Virtual Console couldn't be offering the best lineup and still maintain a competitive pricing value (which it is absolutely not doing right now). But the service has, generally, been handled ineptly from the start... which is unfortunate given how much promise it had and still has. Hey, I've bought plenty of Virtual Console games myself, so I'm no stranger to the service... but I'd have bought even more if the prices were reasonable, and I'm sure many others would be, too. And I'd have bought more if there was a half-decent storage solution in the works. And if there were a greater variety/quantity of games being released regularly. Or if there were demos. Or if online play was made an option for multiplayer games (something possible in just about any emulator). And actually advertising the service wouldn't hurt for all the people who aren't even that on top of it.

Oh I agree, the storage management issue is an especially bad blemish imo and the empty PR "solution" is flat out insulting... but I'm not sure devaluing their product wholesale is really the remedy for Nintendo, the big issues with the Virtual Console really center around their hackneyed implementation moreso. That's what *really* needs work imo.

 

[DDayton]

what a f------ joke, the games actually cost more than most did new back in the day, people moan at MS pricing, but nintendo taking not only the biscuit, but the whole f------ biscuit making factory

Now, I must admit I'm not up on the Euro prices for Wii points, but I'm seeing 500 points as $5.00, and I don't recall any 8-bit era computer titles retailing for that price ... until they failed horribly and were cleared out in the late 80s.

Were C64 games remarkably cheaper in Europe, or are your Wii points just that much more expensive than American ones?

 

[Odrion]

God dammit I want titles for under 500 points, >:[

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Now, I must admit I'm not up on the Euro prices for Wii points, but I'm seeing 500 points as $5.00, and I don't recall any 8-bit era computer titles retailing for that price ... until they failed horribly and were cleared out in the late 80s.

Were C64 games remarkably cheaper in Europe, or are your Wii points just that much more expensive than American ones?

Well, in the UK we buy 2000 Wii points for approx. £15 / $29 and the VC prices break down something like this for the main divisions:

500 points / £3.75 / $7.36
800 points / £6.00 / $11.78
1000 points / £7.50 / $14.72

From my POV, if I want a legit copy of most of the titles available on VC, it is cheaper for me to purchase from the VC than it is to try and track down a decent cart, both in terms of actual cost and in terms of the cost of my own time.

 

[Starchasing]

At least 50% of the worthwhile Amiga titles are owned by Sony.

If there's anything to get annoyed about (on top of pricing, usage, and all the other various flaws of VC), it's that the already sluggish release schedule is going to get even more bogged down with trash and we'll never see Pilotwings.

50%????

Would you care to give some examples?

 

[DDayton]

Well, in the UK we buy 2000 Wii points for approx. £15 / $29 and the VC prices break down something like this for the main divisions:

500 points / £3.75 / $7.36
800 points / £6.00 / $11.78
1000 points / £7.50 / $14.72

I find it hard to believe that Europe had normal C64 games retailing for less than £3.75 / $7.36 when the games were new on the market.

 

[alex1893]

Now, I must admit I'm not up on the Euro prices for Wii points, but I'm seeing 500 points as $5.00, and I don't recall any 8-bit era computer titles retailing for that price ... until they failed horribly and were cleared out in the late 80s.

Were C64 games remarkably cheaper in Europe, or are your Wii points just that much more expensive than American ones?

500 points = 5 euro, when you exchange that to dollars it's nearly $7.50.

As for "the games actually cost more than most did new back in the day" I think he overreacted a little bit. Just checked some old magazine scans, games like the mentioned Uridium and International Karate retailed at about 20 to 30 euro back then.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Now all we need is the Saturn, Atari (All versions) Amiga and Spectrum and that's all the consoles that could possibly come to the VC! (Add Dreamcast to that list if Nintendo truly fix the storage!)

 

[DECK'ARD]

I find it hard to believe that Europe had normal C64 games retailing for less than £3.75 / $7.36 when the games were new on the market.

As someone else has already said, Mastertronic made a selling point of that fact. It's games were £1.99, so were Firebird's.

Including some classics like Thrust.

 

[DDayton]

As someone else has already said, Mastertronic made a selling point of that fact. It's games were £1.99, so were Firebird's.

Including some classics like Thrust.

But the vast majority of C64 games weren't at that price, right? Although now I am aware that there was a super-budget C64 European publisher in the 80s...

 

[speedpop]

If you're all so hard up for a penny then don't bother buying them. It'll save us having to read your shit of "woe is me" and you look smarter in the process.

Fuck. Common sense people.

 

[Mar]

But the vast majority of C64 games weren't at that price, right? Although now I am aware that there was a super-budget C64 European publisher in the 80s...

Exactly. People are full of shit in this thread.

Mastertronic and a few other budget devs sold their games for uber cheap, but 99% of them were utter trash. That's fine, you paid for what you got. They did release some master pieces though.

For everything else, you know, normal games. They were the same price as what we are paying now. I still have receipts for some of my C64 games when they were bought brand new out of the store. They could range from $60 to $80.

If there's one thing that's stayed consistent in video games. It's the price. We've been ripped off since the 70s.

Edit: Oh and I might add. Those claiming "lololol you can buy them now for less on eBay" are also, full of shit. Yeah, you can buy the trash that no one wants for less. But any good game will go for a reasonable amount of money. Many for around $100, some more. I know this for a fact, because I'm a collector and buy regularly. For instance I just bought Bubble Bobble a few days ago. Cost me around $50.

 

[Jiggy]

Now all we need is the Saturn, Atari (All versions) Amiga and Spectrum and that's all the consoles that could possibly come to the VC! (Add Dreamcast to that list if Nintendo truly fix the storage!)

Well, even if you count Sega CD and 32x under the Genesis label (reasonable considering what's being done with Game Gear and TGCD), we could still get Game Boy and Game Boy Color. And the Game & Watch games, I suppose. And failure systems like PC-FX, Jaguar, and 3DO.

 

[fennec fox]

Europeans justifying piracy itt

 

[pilonv1]

loul @ pricepoint. Get fucked.

 

[No6]

50%????

Would you care to give some examples?

Psygnosis.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Well, even if you count Sega CD and 32x under the Genesis label (reasonable considering what's being done with Game Gear and TGCD), we could still get Game Boy and Game Boy Color. And the Game & Watch games, I suppose. And failure systems like PC-FX, Jaguar, and 3DO.

I was talking about consoles not handhelds or arcade systems (Virtual Handheld/Arcade please Nintendo!)

You did get me on Sega CD and 32X though I suspect that they'll pull a TGCD and put it under the same name as the MegaDrive/Genesis.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Exactly. People are full of shit in this thread.

Mastertronic and a few other budget devs sold their games for uber cheap, but 99% of them were utter trash. That's fine, you paid for what you got. They did release some master pieces though.

For everything else, you know, normal games. They were the same price as what we are paying now. I still have receipts for some of my C64 games when they were bought brand new out of the store. They could range from $60 to $80.

If there's one thing that's stayed consistent in video games. It's the price. We've been ripped off since the 70s.

Edit: Oh and I might add. Those claiming "lololol you can buy them now for less on eBay" are also, full of shit. Yeah, you can buy the trash that no one wants for less. But any good game will go for a reasonable amount of money. Many for around $100, some more. I know this for a fact, because I'm a collector and buy regularly. For instance I just bought Bubble Bobble a few days ago. Cost me around $50.

$60-$80?! What?! Were they goldplated?

They were not the same price as today's games. Top of the tree C64 games were £9.99 for Ultimate's later games (Knightlore onwards, in the fancy boxes), which was quite a shocking price at the time.

Most games were £5-£7 ish till then, things standardised after Ultimate's move to £9.99. Disk games were £12.99-£14.99.

Amiga games were £19.99, standardising at around £24.99 by the end of the Amiga's life.

 

[fennec fox]

And modern games are no longer anywhere near that price in the uk, so woss your point?

 

[DECK'ARD]

And modern games are no longer anywhere near that price in the uk, so woss your point?

Hey, I don't mind the VC price. As I've already said, Paradroid and others are more than worth it.

I'm just correcting some of the bonkers revisionist history.

 

[SpoonyBard]

But the vast majority of C64 games weren't at that price, right? Although now I am aware that there was a super-budget C64 European publisher in the 80s...

Not to mention what inflation has done to the value of money in 20 years. This thread is full of utter garbage yet again...

But anyways, bring on Airborne Ranger, World Games, California Games, Rambo, Commando and IK+. I'll gladly pay 5 euros a pop for those.

 

[Mar]

$60-$80?! What?! Were they goldplated?

They were not the same price as today's games. Top of the tree C64 games were £9.99 for Ultimate's later games (Knightlore onwards, in the fancy boxes), which was quite a shocking price at the time.

Most games were £5-£7 ish till then, things standardised after Ultimate's move to £9.99. Disk games were £12.99-£14.99.

Amiga games were £19.99, standardising at around £24.99 by the end of the Amiga's life.

I'm in Australia, granted our prices have always been stupid. But 10 pounds would have been almost $50 AU here, so that sounds about right. Include the 'rip off fee' for us here down under and you get the prices I'm suggesting.

Either way, they are a long way off the hilarious claims in this thread that back in the day they were less than $5.

 

[Fafalada]

To fully appreciate the difference between an (unassisted) NES game and a C64 game made by people adept at the machine, you really have to see them in motion and play them.

To be fair I really have very little basis for comparison with NES, my first console/PC was a Speccy, and C64 games always struck me as colorful but lowres in comparison. (Most of them... The likes of Elite had a different problem - the 1Mhz 6502 just wasn't up to 3d as well as its contemporaries).
But yea, SID always made me want one (until I got an Amiga that is).

 

[DDayton]

Most games were £5-£7 ish till then, things standardised after Ultimate's move to £9.99. Disk games were £12.99-£14.99.

Wait... folks were talking about tape-based games? I assumed we were talking about disk based games... then again, I had the impression that tapes were more popular in Europe than they were in the USA for storage, even with the C64. All I can remember about tape games is that they always seemed much cheaper (and extremely uncommon) in comparison to disk games, although that might just have been the games clearing out.

Let me make this clear, though -- I didn't buy/use an 8-bit computer during most of the 8-bit period, although I did use 'em in school and I got myself an Atari 8-bit system in about '89 or so. I am, however, rather familiar with the period/pricing/etc. on the USA side due to an unhealthy interest in the early days of computing which tied into having an "older model" computer, access to early 80s copies of things like Compute!, and a tendancy to buy loads of dirt cheap books from used book stores while a teenager.

Early 80s books written as "guides" to folks buying systems are rather amusing.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Wait... folks were talking about tape-based games? I assumed we were talking about disk based games... then again, I had the impression that tapes were more popular in Europe than they were in the USA for storage, even with the C64. All I can remember about tape games is that they always seemed much cheaper (and extremely uncommon) in comparison to disk games, although that might just have been the games clearing out.

Let me make this clear, though -- I didn't buy/use an 8-bit computer during most of the 8-bit period, although I did use 'em in school and I got myself an Atari 8-bit system in about '89 or so. I am, however, rather familiar with the period/pricing/etc. on the USA side due to an unhealthy interest in the early days of computing which tied into having an "older model" computer, access to early 80s copies of things like Compute!, and a tendancy to buy loads of dirt cheap books from used book stores while a teenager.

Early 80s books written as "guides" to folks buying systems are rather amusing.

Yeah, disk games were quite rare during the 8-bit days in the UK. Most of the chain stores didn't even carry them, it was only the specialist computer shops. And even then it was just a little section.

Finding a disk version of some of the games was like winning the lottery. Although with the C64's retarded disk drive system, tape versions with turbo loaders often loaded quicker anyway.

Plus with the Rob Hubbard or Martin Galway music on a lot of the games, loading them was half the fun anyway

 

[DECK'ARD]

I'm in Australia, granted our prices have always been stupid. But 10 pounds would have been almost $50 AU here, so that sounds about right. Include the 'rip off fee' for us here down under and you get the prices I'm suggesting.

Either way, they are a long way off the hilarious claims in this thread that back in the day they were less than $5.

Ah, Australian dollars.

Makes more sense now

 

[GaryD]

NEEDS MORE AMIGA

 

[Monsterland]

I'm not sure who they're catering to. Most of the older gamers that grew up with the system have been bitten by the nostalgia bug and downloaded all the roms. The other diehards are collecters that buy stuff off ebay.

I loved the c64, but there's no way in hell I would pay these prices. A lot of the classics - Paradroid, Bruce Lee etc..have been remade and are free to download. Unless these games get a fresh coat of paint, they're not going to have much appeal to anyone.

 

[jarrod]

I dunno...maybe just cut the motherfucking prices altogether? At least with, for example, the NES games all being cheaper than SNES games, there's a darn-near-objective reason (i.e., NES games are generally older, generally have less content, generally have worse graphics, etc.).

What you're proposing is ridiculous. Whereas the current system has SOME objectivity, your system would basically be "Well, I like this game, so make it a higher price."

No, "my system" would set pricepoint on a per title basis, depending on content and brand value. Your fatal mistake is on the assumption that I'm arguaing value based on personal preference... I'm not. The Crystalis versus Mappy setup exemplified the former being a newer, better looking release with more content... it's basically identical to your NES/SNES comparison, only more specific and not generally rounding out everything by format alone (which we have already and obviously isn't working).

Crystalis might be worth less than Mappy *to you*, but objectively it's by far the more valuable release.

 

[DDayton]

Yeah, disk games were quite rare during the 8-bit days in the UK. Most of the chain stores didn't even carry them, it was only the specialist computer shops. And even then it was just a little section.

It seems like it was quite the opposite over here in the USA... even the Apple and TRS-80 line was heavy in disk software. I had the impression that disk software was the majority of what we had after about 1981 or so.

Unless these games get a fresh coat of paint, they're not going to have much appeal to anyone.

I don't know... obscure stuff might be appealing to folks who haven't seen it before (especially with the ease of access), and if we ever get the Nintendo Channel in the west, that COULD help.

 

[Mar]

I'm not sure who they're catering to. Most of the older gamers that grew up with the system have been bitten by the nostalgia bug and downloaded all the roms. The other diehards are collecters that buy stuff off ebay.

I loved the c64, but there's no way in hell I would pay these prices. A lot of the classics - Paradroid, Bruce Lee etc..have been remade and are free to download. Unless these games get a fresh coat of paint, they're not going to have much appeal to anyone.

Hmm.. I see your point but I'm not sure it's correct. It's launching in Europe first where the C64 was huge. It was more popular than any other 8bit gaming system and there has to be a large market for the games. At least larger than the current 8bit VC titles.

I don't really understand where all this confusion is coming from. People are assuming the C64 is some backwards system programmed by guys who lived in a garage creating garbage games. In fact it has a library of games I believe larger than any other platform. Yeah the arcade ports were horrible, but the original games on the C64 were some of the best out there.

Just look at the lemon 64 top 100 games. All of those are titles worth of play today, and there's probably a hundred others too.

 

[jarrod]

I am buying NES games via ebay quite often and you get like 10 games for 15 Euro instead of paying 50 Euro.. and you even get all the fancy extras like the box or a manual..

Depends entirely on the game...


NES used $273.53
NES VC $288.00

SNES used $354.38
SNES VC $216.00

N64 used $169.42
N64 VC $102.00

Genesis used $406.59
Genesis VC $353.00

TG16 used $1,177.67 (minus 4 games even!)
TG16 VC $294.00

NeoGeo used $135.00
NeoGeo VC $72.00


Total used $2,516.59
Total VC $1,325.00

 

[DDayton]

Depends entirely on the game...


NES used $273.53
NES VC $288.00

SNES used $354.38
SNES VC $216.00

N64 used $169.42
N64 VC $102.00

Genesis used $406.59
Genesis VC $353.00

TG16 used $1,177.67 (minus 4 games even!)
TG16 VC $294.00

NeoGeo used $135.00
NeoGeo VC $72.00


Total used $2,516.59
Total VC $1,325.00

The amusing thing about that is that rationally, the NES games are the worst bargain of the bunch, but it feels much more like they are the BEST bargain of the bunch... well, right about Turbo games.

It might just be the fact that I can get the NES games for $5 each.

 

[vanguardian1]

The amusing thing about that is that rationally, the NES games are the worst bargain of the bunch, but it feels much more like they are the BEST bargain of the bunch... well, right about Turbo games.

It might just be the fact that I can get the NES games for $5 each.

Presuming you don't have to worry about replacing savegame batteries, replacing dead hardware with hardware that is no longer manufactured, save/resume capacity that removes the need for password-based continues, higher resolutions and so on.

Those who ***** about $5 per game prices can go jump in a lake

Spoiler

or use less legal means so they aren't supporting the companies who own those titles

.

 

[Mar]

So does any one have any idea when 'later in the year' is? I can't wait for this shit to hit VC.

 

[Unseelie Sluagh]

LOL if Gianna Sisters becomes available. :lol

 

[EphemeralDream]

The amusing thing about that is that rationally, the NES games are the worst bargain of the bunch, but it feels much more like they are the BEST bargain of the bunch... well, right about Turbo games.

It might just be the fact that I can get the NES games for $5 each.

I'd say this is because 5 dollars is much easier to swallow as opposed to 8+ for most everything else. 5 dollars borders on frivolous while 8 is already getting into "investment" territory.

 

[Wiktor]

Heh, I wonder if these people bitching at the pricepoint ever really owned a C64 anyway. There were GREAT games on this platform and the SID music makes it all with it.

But you can get C64 games cheaper, either in Gametap or by buying one of endless compilations