Perspicacity
Banned
Meh, I'll check in. Non-partisan, not because I don't care but more because I don't have any good options.
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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland
- Thread starter DreamMachine
- Start date
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Didn't know this thread was supposed to be fun or try to be like American poligaf. I thought this was just a place for us Canadians (and outsiders to chime in) discuss what's happening in our country?
Why would you go shit in someone else's thread? Bad form.
That being said, the thread title should have just been about the scandal and not an all-purpose politics thread.
crazy monkey
Banned
Canadian GAF checking in. Topic to discuss: Do you want to continue monarchy after queen?
I do not want. I am against it right now. We need to get on with the time. Why should my son should say some dude his king? One of the reasons why I did not join army right away.
I do not want. I am against it right now. We need to get on with the time. Why should my son should say some dude his king? One of the reasons why I did not join army right away.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
I was just kidding guys. I wasn't being serious.
I really wish my nation had Canada's politics.
I really wish my nation had Canada's politics.
Hey things are pretty tame now, but back in the 90s-early 2000s we had a PM who throttled protestors by their necks with his bare hands.
Slurpy2k20
Member
Fuck the Harper gvt. Worst thing to happen to Canada in a long time. We've definitely lost much of our global respectability for being a nation of peace, fair-mindedness, etc. Harper's foreign policy statements have been utterly atrocious. He should be down south running with the damn GOP.
No, I see no reason to.
Sadly, I don't think enough people care for it to be changed anytime soon.
Nope, useless waste of time for us.
Just to add my opinions...
Canadian Conservatives are nothing like American Republicans. It's not even close and just a weak attempt at insult. PC party is more center than right wing with virtually no religious influence.
The overwhelming majority of Canadians don't give a crap about the monarchy. If anything it's just celebrity novelty with zero connection to any level of loyalty.
There might have been a couple of dicks involved in this current scandal, but I doubt it had any widespread party involvement. Any hint of scandal in Canadian politics (works both ways) usually gets grossly exaggerated and overblown.
The NDP is not the future. For those just looking for an alternative, they need to check the disasterous provincial histories of this party. The party policies have not worked and are flawed at a basic level.
The Liberals need to make a comeback after the Ignatief disaster. That was hilariously bad and current results should not have been a surprise. Any future left wing representation is dependent on the Liberal party recovery.
Harper isn't perfect, but in the big picture he hasn't hurt the country as much as previous Liberal governments. Any criticism for Harper is exaggerated hyperbole. The wrath of Harperland? Puhlease. Biased much?
While the American economy has gone down the toilet, the Canadian economy has remained stable. It isn't the end of Canadian world under Harper's command. They're not perfect, but Conservatives are not and probably will not be the disasterous downfall to this country that some seem to want to believe.
Boring Canadians politics means stable Canadian politics. Compared to many countries in this world, Canada is doing just fine.
Canadian Conservatives are nothing like American Republicans. It's not even close and just a weak attempt at insult. PC party is more center than right wing with virtually no religious influence.
The overwhelming majority of Canadians don't give a crap about the monarchy. If anything it's just celebrity novelty with zero connection to any level of loyalty.
There might have been a couple of dicks involved in this current scandal, but I doubt it had any widespread party involvement. Any hint of scandal in Canadian politics (works both ways) usually gets grossly exaggerated and overblown.
The NDP is not the future. For those just looking for an alternative, they need to check the disasterous provincial histories of this party. The party policies have not worked and are flawed at a basic level.
The Liberals need to make a comeback after the Ignatief disaster. That was hilariously bad and current results should not have been a surprise. Any future left wing representation is dependent on the Liberal party recovery.
Harper isn't perfect, but in the big picture he hasn't hurt the country as much as previous Liberal governments. Any criticism for Harper is exaggerated hyperbole. The wrath of Harperland? Puhlease. Biased much?
While the American economy has gone down the toilet, the Canadian economy has remained stable. It isn't the end of Canadian world under Harper's command. They're not perfect, but Conservatives are not and probably will not be the disasterous downfall to this country that some seem to want to believe.
Boring Canadians politics means stable Canadian politics. Compared to many countries in this world, Canada is doing just fine.
So those backbencher Cons calling for fetal rights and limiting abortion, no religious influence there? The Cons are center-right, which if you're comparing them to the Republicans, aren't exactly dead on, but it's not like they're Communists in comparison either.
I'd agree with this. I would think it's a cross section of older Canadians who can remember greater ties with Britain calling for it to stay. Pippa still has a nice butt though.
Lets not undervalue the possible implications of the robocalls. Election fraud is still a major crime and should treated as such, even if it only involves small time players in the party and doesn't go all the way to the top.
I wouldn't point to the provincial parties as an indication of a fedral party's track record, since they're vastly different across the country and no one party ends up looking good. How are NDP policies flawed at a basic level? They're very Keynesian in nature, but I would think you're probably no fan of Keynes. The Liberals would have to really veer left to be a true 'alternative' to the NDP or Greens. Though they do need to make a comeback, veering into social democrat territory isn't going to help them.
I think after seven years, we can't blame the 'previous Liberal government' for much of the daily goings on in Canadian politics anymore. Harper has been steering the ship long enough that he has to take the blame for his own half decade+ of time as PM. If he suddenly saw NAFTA as evil or wanted to wail of Kyoto some more, then maybe, but he won't attack NAFTA, and has already torn up Kyoto.
I agree with this on a macro/world level. Peace, order, and good government > *.
planar1280
Banned
1. Unabated support for Israel on positions even US was vary of thus destroying Canada's status as the neutral observer
2. Oil sands support which even right wingers say destroys environment.
3. Internet/Music/Telecom/Television policy which is even more absurd and hard on consumers than USA
4. Social policies which go against Canadian Values.
For these points alone Harper should never be elected..ever.
Those liberal bastards who balanced our budgets, good riddance! Bring on the dictatorship style censorship and government corruption. We're so god damn stupid up here to have him still in power, I don't see any other democratic country being allowed to lead by an individual that was held in contempt of parliament.
I agree with you overall, but lets not act like Chretien didn't balance budgets through social cuts/reworking provincial payments. Much better social policy, but the economics aren't much different.
percephone
Neo Member
they own the canadian land..and i mean all of it.
KnightAttack
Member
This just made me laugh. A lot.
It's amazing how fast people forget all the good the Liberals did after the disaster that the last Conservative government brought on us.
Still, one of the most interesting things I think a lot of people missed (and it's really hard to find), when there the inquiry of the Sponsorship Scandal in Quebec, a couple Liberals said "We didn't start it, we just carried it on" -- but those were quickly buried in a mountain of other new coverage. However, there is a really good chance that it might be true when you look at some of the things that happened back then, like the Aviation contract that went to a Quebec firm despite being higher bid and using more outdated tech then a firm in Winnipeg.
Anyways, it's nice to know that I'm not completely alone in thinking the way how I do.
Manitoba and Saskatchewan would disagree. Darrel Dexter seems to be doing fine in Nova Scotia.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Lol, the Republican party is a nationalist party in transparent sheep's clothing.
Zombie James
Banned
Federal budget coming March 29th:
In other words, tax cuts for the wealthy, service cuts for everyone else.
In other words, tax cuts for the wealthy, service cuts for everyone else.
Personally, I think one of the most unique and positive traits of the Canadian system of government is the number of non-partisan or quasi-partisan institutions it has, and that includes the monarchy. I have zero interest in an elected head of state or an elected senate because I think that they would lead to American-style hyperpartisanship at all levels of government and that would be devastating.
If there was a way to keep it non-partisan *and* patriate it, I'd be for that, but I'm not sure how that'd work.
More double speak? Jobs and growth don't come from 4 billion in cuts.
Monarchy sucks but we can't get rid of it until the public really wants to do so.
The current scandal is overblown and only a big deal if you're a Toronto Star reader. We won't win seats in downtown Toronto or Montreal ever so I don't care if people there hate us, we'll keep ripping the other parties to shreds in suburbs, small cities and all rural ridings.
As far as I see it, we've supplanted the Liberals in getting the immigrant vote, Bob Rae is poison in Ontario and the Libs are never going to recover in the West. Quebec is a wacky toss-up and always will be, but I think we can muscle back into Quebec City with the impending NDP implosion.
Omnibus crime bill is going to win votes, Defence spending will win votes, Robocalls (not even scandal level by US or European standards) will go nowhere and the Cons are safe on social issues since we'll never make any serious moves on abortion or gay marriage.
As long as the economy improves and we kill the deficit I think we're safe. Though the next election after 2015 we will probably lose.
The current scandal is overblown and only a big deal if you're a Toronto Star reader. We won't win seats in downtown Toronto or Montreal ever so I don't care if people there hate us, we'll keep ripping the other parties to shreds in suburbs, small cities and all rural ridings.
As far as I see it, we've supplanted the Liberals in getting the immigrant vote, Bob Rae is poison in Ontario and the Libs are never going to recover in the West. Quebec is a wacky toss-up and always will be, but I think we can muscle back into Quebec City with the impending NDP implosion.
Omnibus crime bill is going to win votes, Defence spending will win votes, Robocalls (not even scandal level by US or European standards) will go nowhere and the Cons are safe on social issues since we'll never make any serious moves on abortion or gay marriage.
As long as the economy improves and we kill the deficit I think we're safe. Though the next election after 2015 we will probably lose.
It's funny how Conservatives these days sometimes sound like Liberals in the early 2000s after the CPC was founded.
The Liberal strength was partly illusory. Based on vote splitting in Ontario and Quebec and no credible opposition party for all three of Chretien's majorities.
The CPC has faced down the Liberals three times while the Liberals in the 90s had to deal with Reform and the Bloc, hardly difficult. We will possibly implode when Harper leaves by infighting and any parting shot legislation by Harper. Chretien obliterated the Liberal funding base with his campaign finance reform while party factionalism is still an issue with the party. So long as Harper remains were in decent shape but once he's gone we're dead for awhile.
Zombie James
Banned
You call cheating to win a razor-thin majority overblown? Really? There should be a by-election in every single riding where even a single misleading robocall was made.
1) The majority is not razor thin by any means, it's as big as anyone can really get in the new political environment.
2) We'll have an investigation of the robocalls and see the results, but robocalls in the US and Europe have rarely if ever resulted in nullification of results because 1) it's extremely difficult to prove party complicity and 2) it's impossible to determine if those votes tipped the riding, because who in god's name is stupid enough to go to a non-existent polling station and then just not vote.
I'm not going to defend the CPC if it indeed directed this, such is indefensible. But I'll wait until the inquiry and eventual court cases come in before I so breathlessly demand wiping previous results.
I agree that the Liberal strength was illusory. I also think CPC strength is illusory. It's certainly stronger than the Liberals were and more broadly based, but it also benefits from a split on the left. The thing is, the split on the right required unification because they were dividing up 40% of the overall vote. The split on the left is dividing up 60% of the vote, so it only requires that one or the other party become dominant again. It'll probably be the NDP, because I don't see the Liberals ever making a comeback in the west or Quebec (where ever is defined as the foreseeable future). They managed for a long time with only one of those, but without both they are doomed to third party status.
And the CPC majority can't stand without a divided Ontario. If Ontario breaks towards the NDP, the NDP will form government. If they break towards the Liberals, the CPC will be at best reduced to a minority government.
Also, it looks more and more likely that Mulcair will be the NDP's leader in a couple of months. And he will probably, if nothing else, hold on to most of the Quebec seats.
The left leaners always bank on the logic that the NDP/Libs split eachother's votes which isn't truly the case. The Liberals win on centrist voters who could easily swing to the CPC if the Liberals tacked harder to the Left. Similarly the NDP grew its voter base by running towards the centre. We may be in minority territory but a unified left-wing party will lose centrist voters that we will pick up and if it tries to rush the centre it will lose the left-wing voters that the NDP was created for in the first place. Previous history has shown the NDP and Liberals can coexist with the Liberals winning majorities even with a unified PC party, the Liberals have always been centrist more than leftist in voter composition.
The Liberals have always been whatever they needed to be to get elected, and slowly that has lost them all their power bases except one: Ontario. The Liberal party as it currently stands does not stand for any kind of ideal, not even one as wishy-washy as centrism.
You want the Liberals to come back a little bit from the brink they're on because that's the only vehicle the CPC have to maintaining power. A strong NDP is exactly what they don't need -- an ideologically driven party to bring home the fact that the CPC have become the new Liberals in pretty much every way, desperate to do nothing but cling to power.
At any rate, the left split's impact has absolutely been overstated. And a lot of Liberals break to Conservative as the Liberal vote collapses. But in the last election, when it seemed very most important for them to do so, the CPC only managed about a single points' worth of growth out of the threat of an NDP-led coalition. Liberal swing voters are just plain not a big growth area anymore, and a hell of a lot more of them are willing to swing left than right. Polls show that pretty clearly. The right wing of the Liberal party already left years ago.
crazy monkey
Banned
System Like india works great. There is a prime minister and there is president. President is just there to oversee. Most of the time president in india is older respected person around the country. He should be non-partisan.
What did I bought last year than haha.
There will always be a dominant centre-left and a dominant centre-right party and only one of those two will ever win power. So it's either the CPC or it's whichever party Liberal or NDP that takes the centre left stance. The orange crush is based primarily in Quebec and its growth outside of that province was minimal. That was also accomplished with a leader plenty more likable and plenty more charismatic than either Topp or Mulcair. If the NDP goes towards the centre as Mulcair seems to have signaled then I see the Liberals going into violent conflict with them over the remaining centre left space in which I think Grit/NDP infighting will only help us.
I also think the hard left will be less energized to vote when they see the NDP willing to turn its back on them for a chance at power. Not to mention the NDP's position in Quebec is almost impossible to balance with it's need to be competitive elsewhere. Quebec is a crown of thorns as the means of retaining loyalty there make any party less palatable elsewhere.
This is pretty much ridiculous. Mulcair and Topp are both viable leadership candidates in the ROC, and both would probably do pretty well at holding onto Quebec. And barring a new rise of separatism, who are they gonna vote for? The sponsorship scandal party or the party that is virtually ideologically opposed to their very existence? Not likely.
Seriously, you really do sound like a Liberal circa 2003 or so. "lawl the PC party is merging with the Refooorrm Party, and they're gonna have Stephen 'Firewall' Harper as their leader? Say bye to the centre!" The CPC has proven you can pander to your wingnut base and still occupy the centre. I think the NDP will learn a lot of lessons from that.
No matter what, the next election is gonna be entertaining.
The Liberals strength as I stated was only partly illusory. They could have probably won a majority in 2004 or atleast held minority status in 2006 if they weren't cash starved and in barely contained civil war post-Chretien. It's hard to toss an incumbent, but I see Rae and Mulcair/Topp as trying to fight over the same piece of ground and of the two leaders Rae will be the more charismatic but with a weaker party and platform. It's going to be interesting, the reason I made a majority bet is because I don't think it takes a brave man (just a sane one) to expect Conservative minority. I have faith in the party and like our chances but yes it's going to be interesting.
Coddling criminals, or pissing away money?
crazy monkey
Banned
Liberal and NDP need new faces in the party. Alberta will go with conservative again. Ontario will get divided again. I think we will see conservative majority again.
A huge amount rests on the whims of Ontario for sure. I think the NDP will make some pretty significant prairie gains next time though. If they focus hard on Saskatchewan, or the redistricting ungerrymanders (it's accidental gerrymandering, but it comes to the same thing) it, they'll pick up some seats there. I also think they'll pick up one or two new ones in Edmonton after the redistricting.
As for Topp vs. Rae, I agree. I actually think Topp would be a disastrous leader overall, mostly because of his lack of electoral experience. But I think Mulcair will probably bring a fire and energy to the party that it needs in a post-Jack party. Rae's gonna be pretty old in 2015, and smooth though he may be I don't think he'll be able to do very much for the Liberals except maybe in Ontario (where I disagree strongly that he's a liability -- polls actually seem to show him quite favourably in Ontario actually).
Honestly, I think the best strategy for the NDP is to leave Ontario to the Liberals and seek gains elsewhere (as well as consolidating their wins in Quebec). A strong Liberal party in Ontario could mean a minority government for the NDP, frankly.
crazy monkey
Banned
That I agree with but NDP will have to do crazy numbers in sk, mb and BC at least. Quebec was such a big surprise though last time. I also voted NDP just for layton. That man was cool. Crazy but cool. Not a single politician now a days has his personality.
gutter_trash
Banned
this new Conservative party is a gazillion times more vile than the Progressive Conservatives ever was.
they are bringing US style partisan hackery and campaign war tactics
watch them chop up the CBC to make way for Pierre-Karl Péladeau's SunTV conserva-news to push for Conservatives on TV
they are bringing US style partisan hackery and campaign war tactics
watch them chop up the CBC to make way for Pierre-Karl Péladeau's SunTV conserva-news to push for Conservatives on TV
http://www.globalmontreal.com/roboc...ratist+street+in+quebec/6442590760/story.html
Someone was having fun.
DreamMachine
Member
Here is a good Rick Rant on the robo call scandal
http://www.youtube.com/user/MercerReport?feature=g-user-u#p/u/2/HDPaRKXoVeA
http://www.youtube.com/user/MercerReport?feature=g-user-u#p/u/2/HDPaRKXoVeA
ManDudeChild
Member
Just curious. Are you in Danforth? Or did you vote for whoever the NDP had running in your riding based on the fact Layton was leader of the NDP? The fact that on the federal level we strangely have a habit of voting as though we're in a republic has always fascinated me.
Republic is going perhaps a little too far, but in the Canadian system backbenchers have basically 0 power and 0 ability to make change on a local level. Even ignoring the issue of the party whips being a real force, power is at this point so ridiculously concentrated in the PMO that pretending the 'will of parliament' is something other than the 'will of the prime minister' is just kind of silly.
There's been rumblings that the RCMP budget is going to be cut something like 10-15% for next year. Not sure if that's just for Federal policing, or for the whole organization.
Either way, I look forward to trying to solve crimes and arrest bad guys from sitting in the office at my computer screen for the next year. :-/
I guess that's how they plan to balance their minimum sentencing legislation, catch fewer criminals.
But then who will they put in the new prisons they plan to build?
Honestly, I can't even get over how bad a policy the minimum sentencing/more prisons thing is. Are we the only chumps on the planet who will look at a declining crime rate and treat that as a cause for grave concern over people with pot? I think we must be.
Zombie James
Banned
People who grow two or more pot plants and people who play DVDs in Linux, of course.
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