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[hockeypuck]

It ignores colorectal cancer though? And specifically says it actually decreased 23 percent? It then tries to write that off by saying the decrease is probably due to screening? But screening doesn't prevent cancer, it just detects it so I don't understand why colorectal cancer is ignored?

Proper screening absolutely reduces cancer risk. Same reason why Pap smears have reduced cervical cancer rates. Cancer is on a continuum that includes benign lesions and precancerous lesions. Purpose of screening is to catch the lesion before it becomes malignant.

Obesity being bad for health is apparent, but making cancer so much more probable is puzzling.


PS
Reminder that stats need to be taken with a grain of salt:

Amazing that you think an image like that is a valid counterargument against the work of professional biostatisticians and epidemiologists.

 

[Doikor]

There is a group of cancer researchers that think cancer has a metabolic origin. Or at least not all cancers have a genetic origin.

Pretty sure we've known for a long time that not all cancers have a genetic origin. For example inhaling tobacco smoke, radiation and viruses like Hepatitis B/C/D. And I think we've known for a long time that some forms of cancer have metabolic origins just not how big the effect was. And pretty sure most of these are combinations of causes too. As in you have to have some genetic flaw + smoking a lot to get lung cancer (clearly not every smoker gets it. etc.)

 

[spock]

It's weird, because I beleive it works the other way too. Not sure if there are studies on that though.

On the whole you will find evidence that people mirror there closest circle of associates to varying degrees in many aspects of life (money, sex life, etc.). Surround your self with those you want to be like and odds are some aspects of yourself will begin to align with them over time.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I wonder how the Health At Every Size nutjobs will spin this.

 

[DouglasteR]

Obesity being bad for health is apparent, but making cancer so much more probable is puzzling.


PS
Reminder that stats need to be taken with a grain of salt:

I KNEW IT ! It all makes sense now !

 

[hockeypuck]

This table from the NEJM is the crux of the CDC's press release. Here's the free article.

This table shows the 13 cancers, and the actual strength of the evidence on the correlation with obesity. Two of those 13 immediately jump out to me: esophageal adenocarcinoma and uterine cancer.

 

[chicken_pasta]

Those body acceptance movements are ridiculous because of things like this. Instead of encouraging people not to lose weight, they should help people achieve and maintain a healthy weight.

 

[TSM]

At this point companies producing high caloric foods and beverages should be in the same category as the tobacco companies. They are profiting off of their customer's long term misery and suffering.

 

[Turnip Truck]

Those body acceptance movements are ridiculous because of things like this. Instead of encouraging people not to lose weight, they should help people achieve and maintain a healthy weight.

Actually, for many individuals, obesity is linked to a lack of happiness and self-acceptance. If you look fat, feel fat and are called fat, you already feel outcast enough that you go to food for comfort. It just perpetuates the cycle.

There is a psychological benefit to accepting yourself as you are. Modern society has a huge problem with body shaming and general body image issues, especially among young girls and women. If you feel you are fighting a losing battle and can never achieve that perfect body that relies as much upon genetics as diet and activity, you may give up trying.

If you can love yourself, you may be more motivated to take better care of yourself. So maybe there is some good that can come of these movements.

 

[BigDug13]

Second-hand Smoking issues comes from someone living with a smoker, not from walking past someone smoking on the sidewalk. Same thing with obesity, if you live with an obese person, you are more likely to be obese yourself.

I'm not annoyed with a fat person sitting at a table next to me at a restaurant. I am annoyed at a smoker sitting at a table next to me at a restaurant.

 

[Locke562]

At this point companies producing high caloric foods and beverages should be in the same category as the tobacco companies. They are profiting off of their customer's long term misery and suffering.

A tax on sweetened drinks makes sense but what is considered high caloric? Avocados? Pork shoulder? Bread? Wait, we’re getting somewhere here. Let’s call it the avocado toast tax.

 

[TSM]

A tax on sweetened drinks makes sense but what is considered high caloric? Avocados? Pork shoulder? Bread? Wait, we're getting somewhere here. Let's call it the avocado toast tax.

Yeah, it's going to be very complicated to figure out. Sweetened drinks and snacks seem easy to sort out on the surface, but there are a huge amount of prepared foods that also contribute. Just starting out with taxes on drinks and snacks would be a good start though.

The elephant in the room for Americans is that even if you remove junk food from people's diets, we still have the huge issue of portion sizes to deal with.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

At this point companies producing high caloric foods and beverages should be in the same category as the tobacco companies. They are profiting off of their customer's long term misery and suffering.

Lets blame everyone except the person who is at fault.

 

[TSM]

Lets blame everyone except the person who is at fault.

How did you manage to get that out of what I said? No where in that quote did I absolve people of any blame.

 

[Cotton McKnight]

So are people going to come after obesity with as much furor as smoking now?

Yes, because breathing causing cancer doesn't really work as an anti-campaign.

 

[Brock Reiher]

Obesity being bad for health is apparent, but making cancer so much more probable is puzzling.
PS
Reminder that stats need to be taken with a grain of salt:

Is it puzzling? Obesity increasing your chance of diabetes alone is enough to fuck up your entire body. When your body is chronically fucked up your chance of cancer increases. And that's if you don't get into inflammation and metabolism problems.

Lets blame everyone except the person who is at fault.

I assume you got mad when people blamed tobacco companies for targeting children instead of just shaming children with early lung disease? Foods that cause obesity are highly addictive and for some populations in America are the only foods they can even reasonably come across.

 

[Randomizer123454444]

Actually, for many individuals, obesity is linked to a lack of happiness and self-acceptance. If you look fat, feel fat and are called fat, you already feel outcast enough that you go to food for comfort. It just perpetuates the cycle.

There is a psychological benefit to accepting yourself as you are. Modern society has a huge problem with body shaming and general body image issues, especially among young girls and women. If you feel you are fighting a losing battle and can never achieve that perfect body that relies as much upon genetics as diet and activity, you may give up trying.

If you can love yourself, you may be more motivated to take better care of yourself. So maybe there is some good that can come of these movements.

But isn't the message "you are good just like you are now", as opposed to "you can make yourself better"? If you use "You are good just like you are" to deal with negative emotions then people will make that thought part of the center of their new self. Or in other words, no amount of "You can improve yourself" will get trough because that would invalidate the one thought they used to solve their issues ("Being overweight is OK") --> all the mental issues with being overweight would come straight back.

It will make people feel better but I don't see how it will have a positive effect on long term physical health.

At this point companies producing high caloric foods and beverages should be in the same category as the tobacco companies. They are profiting off of their customer's long term misery and suffering.

High caloric does not equal unhealthy. For example eating 100g of nuts (no additions like salt) can be over 600kcal. As opposed to a bag of chips that is ~500kcal/100g (at least ones I prefer). High caloric foods that are easy to produce are important in environments where food is scarce.

 

[Sinfamy]

Healthy at every size.
Sugar is almost always the culprit.

 

[The Lamp]

At this point companies producing high caloric foods and beverages should be in the same category as the tobacco companies. They are profiting off of their customer's long term misery and suffering.

They wouldn't make them if people would stop buying them. But when you have an entire thread of GAFers complaining about a subtle note of aftertaste in an artificial sweetener instead of being appreciative of enjoying a soda with no sugar or calories, you can see why it's not so simple.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Yeah, that's not really second hand obesity. That's people seeing someone fat as a baseline to feel better about their own physical condition and that they can let themselves go somewhat.

Same reason why it works the other way around as well. Being around thin people puts more societal pressure on an obese person to lose weight, even if it goes entirely unspoken among those people.

 

[Brock Reiher]

They wouldn't make them if people would stop buying them. But when you have an entire thread of GAFers complaining about a subtle note of aftertaste in an artificial sweetener instead of being appreciative of enjoying a soda with no sugar or calories, you can see why it's not so simple.

Soooo like drugs, including tobacco.

America is a country that's so scientifically illiterate that a ton of people think you can chug Gatorade like water throughout the day and be in good health. Doesn't help that advertisements for foods that lead to obesity are allowed to hide the potential risks super well.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Lets blame everyone except the person who is at fault.

If you don't think companies market and distribute their products specifically to aim to have it consumed as much as possible, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Sure, the person has to take responsibility for their own health. But you're fooling yourself if you think there are not tremendous outside pressures as well.

 

[The Lamp]

Soooo like drugs, including tobacco.

If tobacco companies offered cancer/toxin-free cigarettes but people didn't want to buy them instead of the bad ones because it doesn't have the "authentic feeling" of real ones, or because it's not made with non-GMO, organic, ancient materials at an unreasonably low cost, then yes you'd have a similar situation.


You're right, the American public is incredibly science illiterate, and it leads to ignorant purchasing decisions that reinforce a cycle of consumerism.

 

[Poppy]

eh whatever

 

[Brock Reiher]

If tobacco companies offered cancer/toxin-free cigarettes but people didn't want to buy them instead of the bad ones because it doesn't have the "authentic feeling" of real ones, or because it's not made with non-GMO, organic, ancient materials at an unreasonably low cost, then yes you'd have a similar situation.

Then that wouldn't be tobacco anymore lol. They kind of have stuff like that for people trying to quit smoking tho

The point is that just because people are addicted to something harmful doesn't mean there shouldn't be blame placed on the companies that provide it.

 

[The Lamp]

Then that wouldn't be tobacco anymore lol. They kind of have stuff like that for people trying to quit smoking tho

The point is that just because people are addicted to something harmful doesn't mean there shouldn't be blame placed on the companies that provide it.

Yes. Wait i don't know if we're arguing

 

[Peltz]

They wouldn't make them if people would stop buying them. But when you have an entire thread of GAFers complaining about a subtle note of aftertaste in an artificial sweetener instead of being appreciative of enjoying a soda with no sugar or calories, you can see why it's not so simple.

There's no reason to eat anything with artificial sweetners either though.

My diet is 100% plant based. I eat veggies, fruits, grains, beans, and nuts. There's not an ounce of artificial sweetener in there.

Even if you don't want to be vegan, it could never hurt to switch to a 100% pure whole foods/organic diet. If it's processed, chances are, there is a healthy organic alternative. And soda should really never be consumed in any form.

If you want something tasty to drink, make a plant-based smoothie.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

I'm like 50lbs overweight, what do?

 

[Ominym]

Obesity being bad for health is apparent, but making cancer so much more probable is puzzling.


PS
Reminder that stats need to be taken with a grain of salt:

...are you implying that the CDC doesn't understand correlation vs. causation?

 

[Infinite]

There's no reason to eat anything with artificial sweetners either though.

My diet is 100% plant based. I eat veggies, fruits, grains, beans, and nuts. There's not an ounce of artificial sweetener in there.

Even if you don't want to be vegan, it could never hurt to switch to a 100% pure whole foods/organic diet.

it could hurt your pockets.

 

[jfkgoblue]

There's no reason to eat anything with artificial sweetners either though.

My diet is 100% plant based. I eat veggies, fruits, grains, beans, and nuts. There's not an ounce of artificial sweetener in there.

Even if you don't want to be vegan, it could never hurt to switch to a 100% pure whole foods/organic diet. If it's processed, chances are, there is a healthy organic alternative. Soda should really never be consumed in any form.

Organic is 5x the price for no added benefit.

 

[Peltz]

Organic is 5x the price for no added benefit.

If you can't afford it, simply choose to eat fruits, veggies, nuts, grains, in whatever affordable form you can get it. Just wash it thoroughly.

100% organic isn't necessary.

I'm like 50lbs overweight, what do?

Do P90X and follow the included diet guide. You'll drop the weight.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Lets blame everyone except the person who is at fault.

Its pretty clear that americans are not going to change their eating habits voluntarily. The government will have to intervene.

I agree with your sentiment though.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Actually, for many individuals, obesity is linked to a lack of happiness and self-acceptance. If you look fat, feel fat and are called fat, you already feel outcast enough that you go to food for comfort. It just perpetuates the cycle.

There is a psychological benefit to accepting yourself as you are. Modern society has a huge problem with body shaming and general body image issues, especially among young girls and women. If you feel you are fighting a losing battle and can never achieve that perfect body that relies as much upon genetics as diet and activity, you may give up trying.

If you can love yourself, you may be more motivated to take better care of yourself. So maybe there is some good that can come of these movements.

Preach.

But isn't the message "you are good just like you are now", as opposed to "you can make yourself better"? If you use "You are good just like you are" to deal with negative emotions then people will make that thought part of the center of their new self. Or in other words, no amount of "You can improve yourself" will get trough because that would invalidate the one thought they used to solve their issues ("Being overweight is OK") --> all the mental issues with being overweight would come straight back.

It will make people feel better but I don't see how it will have a positive effect on long term physical health.

When it comes to the psychological foundations behind obesity, it gets really thorny and there is no good answer that covers most cases. That said, self-image is a significant factor for alot of it and simply put, the message of 'you can be better' has an inherent judgment of you are not acceptable. More to the point though, it also works with an assumption that the person has a measure of value for their own self image. If their self-image is compromised, the answer to 'you can be better' is 'No, i'll never be better'. It is s positive message, but not an affirming one and you're dealing with a very negative self image problem.

'You are good as you are' is not just positive but affirming. Its meant to boost the self image and possibly take that person from reliance on food for positive reinforcement, even if only a bit.

I agree with your sentiment though.

Really. Any idea why soda has sodium in it? A substance that dehydrates you in a beverage, in theory, meant to give you hydration?

How about where you find the least processed foods in a grocery store? The perimeter of the store, as far from the entrance as they can make it.

Ever see chocolate commercials where it is equated with sex? How about cereal commercials that specifically call it happiness? Or the huge feasts at the dinner table with the happy family?

Ever price check eating healthy versus eating bad? Eating bad wins by a mile.

As I said, people have to be responsible about their own health. Any other method would be infeasible. So in that sense, I agree with the both of you.

But let's not act like food companies have been acting responsibly towards consumers either.

 

[Infinite]

Preach.



When it comes to the psychological foundations behind obesity, it gets really thorny and there is no good answer that covers most cases. That said, self-image is a significant factor for alot of it and simply put, the message of 'you can be better' has an inherent judgment of you are not acceptable. More to the point though, it also works with an assumption that the person has a measure of value for their own self image. If their self-image is compromised, the answer to 'you can be better' is 'No, i'll never be better'. It is s positive message, but not an affirming one and you're dealing with a very negative self image problem.

'You are good as you are' is not just positive but affirming. Its meant to boost the self image and possibly take that person from reliance on food for positive reinforcement, even if only a bit.

good post

 

[The Lamp]

There's no reason to eat anything with artificial sweetners either though.

My diet is 100% plant based. I eat veggies, fruits, grains, beans, and nuts. There's not an ounce of artificial sweetener in there.

Even if you don't want to be vegan, it could never hurt to switch to a 100% pure whole foods/organic diet. If it's processed, chances are, there is a healthy organic alternative. And soda should really never be consumed in any form.

If you want something tasty to drink, make a plant-based smoothie.

It can hurt your pockets to switch to full organic, which for most foods, hasn't shown to be any benefit to people, and overall has no impact on your health.

Processed foods doesn't equal "unhealthy" either. Frozen and canned vegetables are a processed food, yet they're often more nutritive than hand-picked vegetables at the store because they're frozen or canned at peak ripeness or freshness and kept that way. Same with herbs and spices. They're heavily processed so you don't die from microbial infection when you season your food.

 

[Hispanic! At the Disco]

I wonder how the Health At Every Size nutjobs will spin this.

More than 40% of the us is overweight or obese so naturally this survey would show at least 40% of their cancer patients to be overweight or obese. Correlation =/= causation.

Probably like that.

 

[ShyMel]

If you can't afford it, simply choose to eat fruits, veggies, nuts, grains, in whatever affordable form you can get it. Just wash it thoroughly.

100% organic isn't necessary.

While I do agree that switching to a more plant-based diet would help with obesity, many people do not live in areas with grocery stores but are instead left with fast food places and convenience stores.

 

[The Lamp]

While I do agree that switching to a more plant-based diet would help with obesity, many people do not live in areas with grocery stores but are instead left with fast food places and convenience stores.

Yeah wasn't there that article about some neighborhood in Harlem got its first grocery store, and it's a Whole Foods, and the local residents were amazed they could buy produce now.

This obesity crisis is beyond fixable. Overweight people addicted to sugar probably will never vote for powerful figures that enact strict taxes or laws or limits against metabolically damaging foods (which would probably tank the economy too, given how big our food industry is), and they won't stop buying it themselves either, and they are quickly becoming a majority of the American populace (diabetic and overweight).

 

[Sinfamy]

While I do agree that switching to a more plant-based diet would help with obesity, many people do not live in areas with grocery stores but are instead left with fast food places and convenience stores.

Bulk chicken breast and frozen vegetables are like everywhere and relatively affordable, don't like the fast food excuse, it didn't apply for the vast majority.

I don't understand why we don't have skinny pills invented yet. People like to eat garbage because garbage is really good. If I could take a pill and eat nothing but chicken wings and pie and stay skinny I would. The profits from such a pill would be amazing.

DNP, Clenbuterol.
They exist, but have awful side effects and are potentially deadly.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I don't understand why we don't have skinny pills invented yet. People like to eat garbage because garbage is really good. If I could take a pill and eat nothing but chicken wings and pie and stay skinny I would. The profits from such a pill would be amazing.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I don't understand why we don't have skinny pills invented yet. People like to eat garbage because garbage is really good. If I could take a pill and eat nothing but chicken wings and pie and stay skinny I would. The profits from such a pill would be amazing.

Unfortunately magic isn't real.

I'm definitely not an expert on that, but I imagine there would be some serious side effects from anything that forcibly consumes large amounts of fat within your body.

 

[JoeBoy101]

I don't understand why we don't have skinny pills invented yet. People like to eat garbage because garbage is really good. If I could take a pill and eat nothing but chicken wings and pie and stay skinny I would. The profits from such a pill would be amazing.

I'd bet a year's worth of paychecks that such a pill would end up causing cancer.

And it still would sell out in a heart beat.

Remember Phen-Phen? There are people I spoke with diagnosed with heart conditions from that drug that still would take it if it came back on the market.

 

[Infinite]

Bulk chicken breast and frozen vegetables are like everywhere and relatively affordable, don't like the fast food excuse, it didn't apply for the vast majority.

not if you're living in a food desert.

 

[Hari Seldon]

DNP, Clenbuterol.
They exist, but have awful side effects and are potentially deadly.

I'd bet a year's worth of paychecks that such a pill would end up causing cancer.

And it still would sell out in a heart beat.

Remember Phen-Phen? There are people I spoke with diagnosed with heart conditions from that drug that still would take it if it came back on the market.

Unfortunately magic isn't real.

I'm definitely not an expert on that, but I imagine there would be some serious side effects from anything that forcibly consumes large amounts of fat within your body.

Yeah I meant without side effects lol. I'm sure you could voluntarily take chemo and drop weight like nothing, but I mean some future invention that did it perfectly safely like nano-bots or something.

 

[The_Kid]

Can’t wait until people use this as a justification to fat shame me.

In all seriousness, I’m not shocked at obesity being linked to cancer. But I’m comfortable with my weight, sort of like being a bit chubby even. So whatever.

 

[ShyMel]

Bulk chicken breast and frozen vegetables are like everywhere and relatively affordable, don't like the fast food excuse, it didn't apply to the vast majority.

While people might have access to the chicken and frozen veggies, do people know how to cook them in a way that does not add a lot of extra salt and such? Do they fry the chicken? Do they top the veggies with butter and cheese?

Here is an article talking about how grocery stores have to be combined with other aspects in order to get rid of food deserts. Here is a section I really like:

There's also evidence that suggests you need good health education programs that teach the skills needed for buying and cooking healthy foods. We've done some work here in the UK where we've followed consumers around the store as they actually buy food. Even though all of them were from low-income communities, they all had different strategies about how they decide what to put in their shopping baskets. Some people are incredibly good — one woman used to put her total budget on her mobile phone's calculator, and every time she purchased something she would take that amount of money off the total. When it reached zero, that was it — she was very disciplined. But others have more chaotic approaches — shopping by offers like 2-for-1 deals. And at the end of the day, once they spent their total amount of money, they would look in their basket and realize they had a bunch of items that they couldn't construct a meal from.

 

[Infinite]

While people might have access to the chicken and frozen veggies, do people know how to cook them in a way that does not add a lot of extra salt and such? Do they fry the chicken? Do they top the veggies with butter and cheese?

Here is an article talking about how grocery stores have to be combined with other aspects in order to get rid of food deserts. Here is a section I really like:

this article is good. It should be fairly obvious to everyone that this is a very complex problem with a lot of societal issues contributing to such but somehow that escapes most people.

 

[Randomizer123454444]

Preach.



When it comes to the psychological foundations behind obesity, it gets really thorny and there is no good answer that covers most cases. That said, self-image is a significant factor for alot of it and simply put, the message of 'you can be better' has an inherent judgment of you are not acceptable. More to the point though, it also works with an assumption that the person has a measure of value for their own self image. If their self-image is compromised, the answer to 'you can be better' is 'No, i'll never be better'. It is s positive message, but not an affirming one and you're dealing with a very negative self image problem.

'You are good as you are' is not just positive but affirming. Its meant to boost the self image and possibly take that person from reliance on food for positive reinforcement, even if only a bit.

If instead of "You are at -54 points" you want to say "hey, you are already at 15 points! Go you!", sure, go ahead. What's important to me is that tomorrow you are you+1, so tomorrow you'd be at 16 points! I try to make myself better every single day. I'm not bad today. I'm not a horrible person today. But tomorrow, I could be even better! This same philosophy also applies to mental tasks like learning new things. It's a journey to make myself better that will never end. It doesn't matter where you are, what matters is that you are moving forward.

This is the philosophy I believe in, but if staying overweight makes you happy, I will not be the person to crush that feeling. I will let you be happy, and I will hope that you too will join me on the road forward some day.

 

[IceCold]

I don't understand why we don't have skinny pills invented yet. People like to eat garbage because garbage is really good. If I could take a pill and eat nothing but chicken wings and pie and stay skinny I would. The profits from such a pill would be amazing.

Because being skinny isn't healthy in itself. You can still be skinny with insulin resistance and that's the root of all these problems. Likely something like 70% of Americans have some form of insulin resistance, but it's hard to know since doctor don't do proper glucose/insulin tests. Dr. Joseph Kraft knew about this shit decades ago, but obviously nobody listened because everyone was busy having a war against fat: http://denversdietdoctor.com/diabetes-vascular-disease-joseph-r-kraft-md/