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[CyclopsRock]

Those stations/stadiums are not main offices for people making racist cartoons mocking Islam or Muslims.

The Charlie Hebdo office building is.

Nope.

 

[ldcommando]

Good for them. They should not have to fear those fucking cowards

 

[nynt9]

Maybe the editors aren't afraid to die, but if some night janitor who doesn't know or care about anything being published there just happens to be cleaning the office when someone decides to toss a grenade in through the window, you know... that's kinda irresponsible on the editor's parts.

There comes a point when you need to be conscience of the people surrounding you, not just your own personal agenda.

You'd think that people who were attacked twice in the last five years would be a bit more careful around matters of religion. I'm not saying they should be self-censoring, but they are just provoking the extremists. I mean, if I was an editor at a newspaper whose offices were firebombed and where later 75% of my collegues were murdered, I'd probably think twice before openly mocking those people again.

Well if they're not cowards, they should put a huge sign up in front of the building saying, "WARNING: We regularly mock Muslims and Islam and have been targeted by terrorists in the past. Your life is in danger being near this place."

To at least WARN people of potential retaliation against them at that location.

Because, the everyday passerby or tourist or even adjacent businesses might think twice about being anywhere near that office and risking their lives for someone else's agenda. It is located in the middle of a city afterall. It's not like they are in a shack in the middle of the woods, far from risking other people's lives.

Those stations/stadiums are not main offices for people making racist cartoons mocking Islam or Muslims.

The Charlie Hebdo office building is.

I'm surprised people here are using hyperbole to jump into a slippery slope defense when there is direct causation between Charlie and the extremists.

Spoiler

(not really surprised)

Nice victim blaming! They brought it upon themselves!

These posts are disgusting.

 

[Keasar]

I mean in the broader sense that the terrorists have succesfully changed the world for the worse.

I honestly don't think they have. Sure, they kill people and it is tragic, but our way of life hasn't been threatened or changed in any way because of them. France is still France and remains France. Charlie Hebdo remains who they are and keep doing what they do.

I fucking respect the shit out of them for it.

 

[Real Hero]

I remember there was a thread awhile ago on here after the attacks when they did a cover on refugees and it was obviously sympathetic one but people on here were just jumped the gun to say 'they go too far' 'they don't deserve to be murdered but'

 

[Beerman462]

Not sure why this comic would be offensive. I'm guessing it has to do with the banning of burkinis. Considering France has nude beaches it's funny that a French city is saying cover up less at the beach. So the comic is saying if they want you to cover up less fuck it go nude.

 

[norinrad]

I hope all employees are well protected over there by the French authorities. France is not a safe place these days

 

[skybald]

When a religion is threatening artistic/satirical freedom, something is wrong.
But people like Michel Houellebecq also have to go into hiding... The most dangerous job in Europe might be making comics about Islam.

People saying that Charlie Hebdo are asking for violent retribution are nuts. That is implying there is a fundamental flaw with some interpretations of Islamic philosophy that there is even a nominal threat of violence against people ridiculing their religion. So the problem is with the number of people who believe in a shitty interpretation of Islam, not with the stupid cartoons CH releases.

 

[Hex]

I really hope these threats are unfounded. Those guys have balls to keep doing what they do after what happened, I salute them for that.

It is not balls, it is just stupid attention seeking.
Trying to pretend that they are doing something nobel is just laughable.
You can make your points, and speak your mind without going the extra mile to make sure that you are offending someone.
Christ I thought this was the home of do not offend...oh wait it is only for certain things.

 

[Rich!]

The cover shows Arab caricatures running around naked like dumb buffoons. It's making fun of Muslims for dressing the way they do and literally goes no deeper than that.

Whatever. This thread is disappointing but I guess I'm the only one that finds this pointless and offensive so there's no point arguing.

...you just don't get it, do you? Either you don't understand satire at all, or you failed to understand the message entirely. They are not mocking Muslims. I'll let this guy explain it for you:

Not sure why this comic would be offensive. I'm guessing it has to do with the banning of burkinis. Considering France has nude beaches it's funny that a French city is saying cover up less at the beach. So the comic is saying if they want you to cover up less fuck it go nude.

....

It is not balls, it is just stupid attention seeking.
Trying to pretend that they are doing something nobel is just laughable.

They are standing up to the cunts that supported their friends and colleagues being brutally murdered a year ago by refusing to stand down. Of course that's fucking noble!

But no, let's do what you would prefer and tiptoe around the extremists, suppress our human right to free speech and let them rule our lives through fear! That'll make them happy!

 

[Guevara]

They core joke is actually pretty funny: how dare they suggest muslims are loosening up!

"You saying I'm calm really makes me mad!" It's a funny upending of expectations.

 

[ClosingADoor]

It is not balls, it is just stupid attention seeking.
Trying to pretend that they are doing something nobel is just laughable.

Stupid attention seeking. OK dude. I'm sure they want the attention of idiots who say they will kill them.

 

[Croatoan]

If you have ever wondered if you are part of the regressive left (or right) then your reaction to this topic will clear that up.

Pro Charlie Hebdo's right to freedom of speech/press = non regressive

Pro Charlie Hebdo self censoring because of Muslim feelings (with a dash of victim blaming) = regressive as fuck

 

[AuthenticM]

The cover shows Arab caricatures running around naked like dumb buffoons. It's making fun of Muslims for dressing the way they do and literally goes no deeper than that.

Whatever. This thread is disappointing but I guess I'm the only one that finds this pointless and offensive so there's no point arguing.

(Not) Cool Guy Sami, dé-coin-ce-toi.

 

[BocoDragon]

They're asking for it by dressing their magazine like that.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

It is not balls, it is just stupid attention seeking.
Trying to pretend that they are doing something nobel is just laughable.
You can make your points, and speak your mind without going the extra mile to make sure that you are offending someone.
Christ I thought this was the home of do not offend...oh wait it is only for certain things.

Your argument would hold water if not for the fact that they exist since the 70's. They were always doing their thing, the only time the press is talking about them is when they get sued and when they get threaten. They usually ship 60 000 copies.

They're not seeking attention, they're doing what they want to do.

 

[Elchele]

It's a fucking cartoon ffs.
The authorities should follow each treat and put them in jail.

 

[Audioboxer]

They went after Trump in June IIRC. If a Trump front cover doesn't produce a death threat off some whack job Trump supporter then that should show you the divide between mocking everything > mocking something Muslim/Islam related.

Thatisthepoint.jpg. Also a reminder to everyone who only seems to tune in when it's an Islam related cover ~ They produce shit mocking everything throughout the year. Remember that.

They are continually reminding everyone what one of the biggest threats to freedom of speech is these days. Quite frankly any freedoms, hence the state of Women in many Islamic countries.

 

[SystemBug]

If you have ever wondered if you are part of the regressive left (or right) then your reaction to this topic will clear that up.

Pro Charlie Hebdo's right to freedom of speech/press = non regressive

Pro Charlie Hebdo self censoring because of Muslim feelings (with a dash of victim blaming) = regressive as fuck

that's a very simple-minded way of looking at it.

 

[Hex]

Stupid attention seeking. OK dude. I'm sure they want the attention of idiots who say they will kill them.

I would love to see their numbers.
They get world press out the ass every time this comes up, people all over the world scurry to get copies as collector's items.
It is irresponsible of them and it is asinine of them.
It puts their employees at risk, their families at risk and their country at risk for something so...EH.

 

[Gnome Scat]

These guys just love kicking the hornets' nest.

 

[EmiPrime]

When a religion is threatening artistic/satirical freedom, something is wrong.
But people like Michel Houellebecq also have to go into hiding... The most dangerous job in Europe might be making comics about Islam.

Funny thing is, Charlie Hebdo have printed a lot of cartoons taking the piss out of Michel Houellebecq for being a bit of a fanatic.

 

[andythinkpad]

Can they move the business address inside a police precinct and everyone work remotely.

 

[Croatoan]

that's a very simple-minded way of looking at it.

It really is that simple.

You can disagree with Charlie Hebdo's ways and still support their freedom to do what they do though.

Once you start talking about removing their right to make fun of things (through any means, even ideas of self censorship) then you are literally regressing their right to free speech.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I would love to see their numbers.
They get world press out the ass every time this comes up, people all over the world scurry to get copies as collector's items.
It is irresponsible of them and it is asinine of them.
It puts their employees at risk, their families at risk and their country at risk for something so...EH.

Seriously? After having their office attacked by terrorists and seeing 11 of their colleagues murdered, your response is: "they are doing this for the sales".

It is not them putting their employees, families and country at risk. It is the extremists who kill over some stupid cartoons.

 

[S-Wind]

Fuck Charlie Hebdo.

Getting shot up doesn't make their shit stink any less.

 

[Kinyou]

I remember there was a thread awhile ago on here after the attacks when they did a cover on refugees and it was obviously sympathetic one but people on here were just jumped the gun to say 'they go too far' 'they don't deserve to be murdered but'

Some people here pretty much had that reaction even directly after the attacks.

 

[Derwind]

...you just don't get it, do you? Either you don't understand satire at all, or you failed to understand the message entirely. They are not mocking Muslims. I'll let this guy explain it for you:

I feel like I should mention and I feel ridiculous that I need to say this but given how heated this thread has gotten. I support freedom of speech 150%.

However, that's just one person's perspective on the comic. Even if you feel it's a well delivered piece, others will see it as clumsy and picking the wrong target given the topic it's addressing. Or maybe the right target. All a matter of how you view it.

Which is usually how art, even political cartoons end up delivering.

Now that being said, I agree with Beerman's thoughts on this. Though I don't find it particularly well done.

Fuck Charlie Hebdo.

Getting shot up doesn't make their shit stink any less.

Dude, really?

 

[Kelthink]

These guys just love kicking the hornets' nest.

Basically. Whilst Christianity has been spread thinly amongst many regions (in many cases nefariously), so much of Islam is entrenched in particular cultures and races that is absolutely fucking stupid to do something like this. It can make moderate Muslims feel isolated and extremists angry leading to something dangerous.

There's ways to speak out against Muslim traits that are of concern, but this sort of thing divides communities by simplifying the issue to the point of absurdity.

This ain't killing 'em with kindness.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

I would love to see their numbers.
They get world press out the ass every time this comes up, people all over the world scurry to get copies as collector's items.
It is irresponsible of them and it is asinine of them.
It puts their employees at risk, their families at risk and their country at risk for something so...EH.

They used to ship 60 000 copies before the attack.

80 000 now.

 

[MisterR]

Basically. Whilst Christianity has been spread thinly amongst many regions (in many cases nefariously), so much of Islam is entrenched in particular cultures and races that is absolutely fucking stupid to do something like this. It can make moderate Muslims feel isolated and extremists angry leading to something dangerous.

There's ways to speak out against Muslim traits that are of concern, but this sort of thing divides communities by simplifying the issue to the point of absurdity.

This ain't killing 'em with kindness.

Bullshit. Nobody is exempt from satire and free speech should not be abridged to placate extremists.

 

[Audioboxer]

Basically. Whilst Christianity has been spread thinly amongst many regions (in many cases nefariously), so much of Islam is entrenched in particular cultures and races that is absolutely fucking stupid to do something like this. It can make moderate Muslims feel isolated and extremists angry leading to something dangerous.

There's ways to speak out against Muslim traits that are of concern, but this sort of thing divides communities by simplifying the issue to the point of absurdity.

This ain't killing 'em with kindness.

It isn't their shtick to "kill with kindness". They approach every topic of religion and belief with the same bombastic ridicule and mockery.

Why would "a moderate of any religion" be looking to Charlie Hebdo for inspiration? lol. My parents are pretty devout Christians and think Charlie Hebdo is crude and offensive but the difference is my parents wouldn't then go and threaten them in ANY manner. Just ignore it and never seek it out.

 

[radios shipping overview]

If you have ever wondered if you are part of the regressive left (or right) then your reaction to this topic will clear that up.

Pro Charlie Hebdo's right to freedom of speech/press = non regressive

Pro Charlie Hebdo self censoring because of Muslim feelings (with a dash of victim blaming) = regressive as fuck

I'm a non-francophone American, so I don't see Charlie Hebdo comics outside of when these issues come up, nor do I usually understand their punchlines when they're about internal French politics. But I suppose I can draw a parallel with South Park. I can appreciate Trey and Matt's right to lampoon everybody, but I'm also free to disagree with their methods or call them disingenuous and juvenile.

Folks get so caught up in holding up Charlie Hebdo as the shining beacon of free speech in the Western world that they don't seem too concerned about what kind of company they're keeping.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Folks get so caught up in holding up Charlie Hebdo as the shining beacon of free speech in the Western world that they don't seem too concerned about what kind of company they're keeping.

Which is?

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm a non-francophone American, so I don't see Charlie Hebdo comics outside of when these issues come up, nor do I usually understand their punchlines when they're about internal French politics. But I suppose I can draw a parallel with South Park. I can appreciate Trey and Matt's right to lampoon everybody, but I'm also free to disagree with their methods or call them disingenuous and juvenile.

Folks get so caught up in holding up Charlie Hebdo as the shining beacon of free speech in the Western world that they don't seem too concerned about what kind of company they're keeping.

Mostly because any other form of mainstream media won't touch Islam with a bargepole. Hence why even South Park can't get allowed to really lampoon it. I don't doubt Trey and Matt want it on a level field with everything else they mock.

That is why people that believe in free speech hold Charlie Hebdo in high regards. You don't have to care two hoots about the humour or style, and can in fact even dislike it. It's more about the fact they do it without self censoring like nearly every other media outlet.

Heck British news wouldn't even show the magazine front cover after the killings at their office. It was extreme cowardice for what is suppose to be neutral and fact reporting news outlets/papers.

 

[Systolique]

The reaction of clueless gaffers insulting and shaming Charlie Hebdo is one of the things that makes this paper such a delight, stay classy Cool Guy !

 

[Henkka]

Which is?

Far-left, anti-religion cartoonists

But I'm guessing that's not what jiji has in mind

 

[SystemBug]

It really is that simple.

You can disagree with Charlie Hebdo's ways and still support their freedom to do what they do though.

Once you start talking about removing their right to make fun of things (through any means, even ideas of self censorship) then you are literally regressing their right to free speech.

I am not saying they can't say this stuff. But to me it's more of a question of why does them doing this shit garner so much respect? Yeah use your free-speech, but like don't do it to be a hateful asshole.

 

[Kurtofan]

I am not saying they can't say this stuff. But to me it's more of a question of why does them doing this shit garner so much respect? Yeah use your free-speech, but like don't do it to be a hateful asshole.

I feel like people around here don't understand the concept of death threats.

 

[Real Hero]

I am not saying they can't say this stuff. But to me it's more of a question of why does them doing this shit garner so much respect? Yeah use your free-speech, but like don't do it to be a hateful asshole.

What's hateful about this?

 

[Shahadan]

Humor: serious business

 

[Dilly]

Luckily society isn't full of cowards like some people in this thread, or we'd still be stuck in the dark ages.

 

[perfectchaos007]

They have the right to offend, and the right to satire. No one has the right to physically harm or kill them for exorcising that right.

Simple as that

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

They have the right to offend, and the right to satire. No one has the right to physically harm or kill them for exorcising that right.

Simple as that

Perfect.

 

[BocoDragon]

Death threats bolster the "maybe they shouldn't" narrative.

I have no doubt that people would be saying about South Park it's "it's hateful/they can do it, they didn't stop to think if they should" if they also got death threats.

All kinds of satire gets a pass. But not if its a serious issue. And it's merely a serious issue if people will kill you for it.

 

[daviyoung]

They have the right to offend, and the right to satire. No one has the right to physically harm or kill them for exorcising that right.

Simple as that

Yeh but I don't like it

 

[Audioboxer]

I am not saying they can't say this stuff. But to me it's more of a question of why does them doing this shit garner so much respect? Yeah use your free-speech, but like don't do it to be a hateful asshole.

Because we shouldn't live in a world where violence/death threats restrict our speech. As I said above not many other media outlets will touch Islam equally so people like that Charlie Hebdo do.

Think of it as shock therapy. One would hope the more it becomes normalized to mock Islam like everything else the more the extremists will be outweighed and their reign of terror and fear dismantled. What doesn't help is pandering to their request with all the apologetics suggesting "Islam should be off the table, that is mean, leave them alone". That does not help.

Anyone who cares about freedoms has to hope we will reach that place one day. Where offensive cartoons/comics/satire can be ignored/criticised if not your tastes, not people killed over it.

 

[Real Hero]

Death threats bolster the "maybe they shouldn't" narrative.

I have no doubt that people would be saying about South Park it's "it's hateful/they can do it, they didn't stop to think if they should" if they also got death threats.

All kinds of satire gets a pass. But not if its a serious issue. And it's merely a serious issue if people will kill you for it.

They did get death threats before and comedy central had to censor them

 

[Averon]

Luckily society isn't full of cowards like some people in this thread, or we'd still be stuck in the dark ages.

Agreed. Some of the cowardice I've seen in regards to Charlie Hebdo is depressing. Placating to extremists does no one any good. That doesn't mean you can't call out Charlie Hebdo, but it does mean they should not fear for their lives for exercising their rights.

 

[Systolique]

What's funny is when you people say this cover is "hateful" or that the paper is "racist" you just show to the rest that you have absolutely no clue about what the cover is about or who's behind this paper.