adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
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Citizen Sleeper Dev: "Game Pass is keeping a lot of Indie studios going"
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
diffusionx
Gold Member
not for much longer
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Exactly. It's a huge lifeline for AA and indies.
And I'm definitely looking forward to Citizen Sleeper 2. Played the 1st on GP and bought it afterwards. One of the best sci-fi games I've played; great writing, OST and menu-based game design.
And I'm definitely looking forward to Citizen Sleeper 2. Played the 1st on GP and bought it afterwards. One of the best sci-fi games I've played; great writing, OST and menu-based game design.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Any day now.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I have tried so many great indie games that I wouldn't otherwise. Games like this (Sleeper), Tunic etc are amazing and would get all but completely ignored if they didn't have an audience like GP's.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Not just indies, it just saved a behemoth title Diablo 4 from brink of ruin as well.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They help keep a lot of devs afloat.
Without good indies, we'll just be left waiting 4~5 years between expensive AAA projects only.
KaiserBecks
Member
I had a similar experience with „Void Bastards“ and „Undermine“. I love both of them and bought them for several platforms. Never would have tried them (probably never would have heard of them) if it wasn’t for Gamepass.
AJUMP23
Member
What was that twin stick shooter in a cyber punk world. That game was great and perfect for GP. The Ascent
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Or The Ascent, or High on Life which got slammed in reviews completely inaccurately. It also weakens the impact of game journalists, which is always a great thing. They're not needed for anything on GP.
vaibhavpisal
Member
I was joking about Diablo 4. But for indies to AA developers, I don’t see any downside to getting a major chunk of development funds with a gamepass deals.
Shane89
Member
I'm against game pass and any game subscription service, BUT i can understand that it might help small studios that without a strong name wouldn't be able to sell their games. For that case, it's a win situation, you get money for every download, and for sure you will get more money than what you will get with the low sales amount.
Buuuut, things are drastically different for big studios that develop games with a big budget, in that case it will be a disaser, unless it's an internal studios and you (the mother company) accept the deal that you will very likely lose money but you still hope to bring more player to your platform by releasing the game for free
Buuuut, things are drastically different for big studios that develop games with a big budget, in that case it will be a disaser, unless it's an internal studios and you (the mother company) accept the deal that you will very likely lose money but you still hope to bring more player to your platform by releasing the game for free
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Little Chicken
Member
Well Game Pass has been around for 7 years now.
Still waiting for it to destroy the industry...
hemo memo
Gold Member
All the proof you need is EVERY game from microsoft in the last 5 years.
hemo memo
Gold Member
Bloated "AAAA" expensive "make-everything-super-big" is the true cancer of the industry. It wastes money and sink game companies. Games should be well-made without costing a fortune.
Little Chicken
Member
How? Would 35+ million people have played FH5 without it?
You could argue that games like Pentiment and Hi-Fi RUSH would never have been made without Game Pass.
djjinx2
Member
Bumblebeetuna
Member
How long term are we talking? Because so far, “game quality will suffer!!” is sitting right there alongside “GamePass exclusive content!!” and “rushed out games!!” and “episodic filler!!” as predictions that have yet to be any sort of reality.
Sanepar
Member
It didn't because gamers didn't embrace the service and it is flat.
Sanepar
Member
Gamepass doesn't have enough subscribers to dictate the industry. Ms plan didn't work until now.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Ironically, we've already seen endless examples of the retail model impacting quality. It's practically the main thing ruining gaming right now. The whole 360 era was dominated by tacked on multiplayer modes only to try and limit reselling and adapt to retail. Now we see the push for open world bloat and excessive AAA budgets because that's what sells day one at retail.
Subs have given breathing room for shorter games. A 6 hour game with no filler is fantastic on a sub, but at retail it will be a disaster. Unusual and niche games that you have to try to see how it is do better on subs, less so at retail. New IP do better on subs, less so at retail. The list goes on and on.
If you want the big budget AAA stuff, just buy that. GP doesn't even really feature a lot of that.
Subs have given breathing room for shorter games. A 6 hour game with no filler is fantastic on a sub, but at retail it will be a disaster. Unusual and niche games that you have to try to see how it is do better on subs, less so at retail. New IP do better on subs, less so at retail. The list goes on and on.
If you want the big budget AAA stuff, just buy that. GP doesn't even really feature a lot of that.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
MS will never and would have never had enough subscribers to “dictate the industry”.
The doomsday predictions like “it’ll destroy game quality!!” failed because they were all based on nonsense and not reality
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Its this kind of thinking that has got Xbox in the troubles it's currently in.
And I don't even blame you, or fault you for thinking like that. You are a walking, breathing, typing by-product of the choices Xbox made.
Here's a hypothetical. I am not saying one or the other, just asking a question.
Do you think gamepass, has done more harm than good for Xbox and even the games on its platform?
djjinx2
Member
Gamepass hasn't dictated budgets for games imo. MS is very loose with first party Devs.
It's done more harm though I feel, stop the day 1 big budget games and lower the price of GP may help.
Rosoboy19
Neo Member
And many of the AAA projects lack creativity or originality which the Indie games make up for. Gamepass helping indies a very good thing.They help keep a lot of devs afloat.
Without good indies, we'll just be left waiting 4~5 years between expensive AAA projects only.
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
By putting your game on subscription service, people are going to expect the IP's sequel to be included in the subscription service.
And then the how much of the gamepass deal for the sequel will be controlled by the supplier which is Microsoft, because nobody will buy your game day 1.
And then the how much of the gamepass deal for the sequel will be controlled by the supplier which is Microsoft, because nobody will buy your game day 1.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
artificially.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Then that means these indies are about to go broke and collapse. Because any company that only can survive off of subscription hand outs deserves to fail.
PSlayer
Member
if it so good why nobody is buying? why do they need money from microsoft/epic to survive? this has nothing to do with the quality of the games.They help keep a lot of devs afloat.
Without good indies, we'll just be left waiting 4~5 years between expensive AAA projects only.
This is universal basic income for shit studios that can't make money for themselves.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Flight Simulator - fucking amazing game, tons of content- getting massive free support still.
Forza Horizon 5 - another amazing game, tons of content and well supported.
Age of Empires 4 - maybe not a slam dunk, but an excellent game in a genre that is less and less supported.
Quake 2 remaster - this is how you remaster a classic
Hi-Fi rush - great rythym game with tins of style
They have a great track record for great games that are in unpopular or 'niche' genres or that are smaller scale. Their big tentpole story driven releases have been where they have missed the mark.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Then those games SHOULD NOT have been made. Or the platform it was made for is a failing one. Pick your choice.......
captainpat
Member
It's really funny seeing devs go back and fourth about gamepass. Makes sense tho, saying that gamepass is good or bad for all devs is a very simplistic mindset.
RickSanchez
Member
Do you know if it runs well on Steam Deck ?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Small indie devs don't have publishers to give them hundreds of millions of dollars.
Did you read the developers comment? His reasoning is right there.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Citizen Sleeper was in the running for GOTY for me. You have no idea what you're talking about here. Often times consumers don't know what they will enjoy until they try it. Sub business model incentivizes experimentation, by design. It purposely tries to expose consumers to more variety in genres in the hopes they will become fans of more types of games, which broadens consumer taste. Retail incentivizes risk averse purchasing of things you already know because of the steep cost.
Citizen Sleeper? No idea, but I would assume it could run well on a flip phone. It's a text based game with choices and board game-esque user interface that's really solid.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I think you're in the wrong topic ?
PSlayer
Member
Yes i read it. The games don't sell and they need to give it to the players for free on gamepass. In exchange MS/Epic gives them enough money to pay the bills.
This is not good and this studios will shut down as soon as MS/Epic give on these failed business model.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Indie games are being made from much before gamepass and EGS were a thing.
A lot of them are very good and need to be made.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This game shouldn't cost hundreds of millions of dollars though. Do you think this game really cost $100 million?
So what happens if MS deems the subscription model unprofitable? Or shifts what types of games get the GP money in the future?
hemo memo
Gold Member
GP offers a safety net for studios. It frees them from relying solely on immediate sales, allowing them to experiment and create innovative titles. This can lead to a wider variety of games for players, which benefits everyone.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Why don't you make your point instead of asking me grade school level questions. I made my point and didn't ask you to walk me through it.