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CliffyB on Saint’s Row: “Lose the gimps and dildos” to beat GTA

D

Dark Octave

Banned
yukonrye said:
The lasting impression I got from Bulletstorm was the awesome combat and environment. I don't remember any of the cursing. I never could pull off the butthole shot.
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To be honest, thinking back on it, I don't really remember any of the cursing either.

I do remember ripping a dude into the air and tearing his ass up in slow motion with machine guns and a boot though.

The guided sniper rifle became my mainstay. Loved it. Best part of the game.
 
W

Warm Machine

Member
It wasn't written by him, it wasn't marketed by him, it was other people who did it conveniently thrown under a bus.

You can tell that from inception the game had this ugly tone and that was bought into by him. I've seen the same thing happen a million times in games. Ugliness is the easiest thing to build, from Thrill Kill to Kingpin, being vile is easy. Its ok to admit that and straight up say it was a mistake on his part to have followed through with it. When a multimillion dollar game gets going you don't want to change tracks.

Go search Bulletstorm trailers on Youtube and there is his smiling face honestly happy about what it is he is promoting and how he is promoting it. Marketing wouldn't have picked up on it if it wasn't there in the first place.

It is healthy to admit that you made the wrong decisions, and you know, he is right about Saints Row being the game it is, if its goal is sales and popularity exceeding GTA.

In his defense I still think Gears is well done. I think the chainsaw gun isn't some horribly out of place alpha offensive thing. It fits within the reality of the war torn violent world that game takes place in. You don't see Marcus and Dom trading high fives and talking about ass rape and breaking the tone. Writing wise, you can tell Marcus doesn't even want to be there or a part of it but has to. Gears is a wholly developed world where the parts reinforce each other. It never feels like it is trying hard to get a laugh, to shock via content, or change on a dime.

Bulletstorm is designed to gleefully reward you for doing shitty things to people and laugh about it. That is its core design philosophy.
 
W

Wasp14

Member
His complaints about Saints Row are what differentiate it from GTA (which I prefer). The grand theft auto series is the one trying to go in the more serious Michael Mann direction, Saint's Row is about pushing the craziness further with each entry. I like that both titles give the choice for either zany or "serious".
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
Warm Machine said:
Go search Bulletstorm trailers on Youtube and there is his smiling face honestly happy about what it is he is promoting and how he is promoting it. Marketing wouldn't have picked up on it if it wasn't there in the first place.
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ZnqQ5.gif
 
D

DaBuddaDa

Member
So the problem isn't the crassness in the game, it's how it's marketed. Yet again, the problem is marketing. It's always marketing. The solution isn't to not put that stuff in your game, the solution is to slap marketing upside their head and tell them to smarten up and do better.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
When I played the demo, the announcer gleefully informed me immediately that I get a point bonus if I shoot people in the dick or the asshole.

But it's totally marketing, right Cliff?
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
DaBuddaDa said:
So the problem isn't the crassness in the game, it's how it's marketed. Yet again, the problem is marketing. It's always marketing. The solution isn't to not put that stuff in your game, the solution is to slap marketing upside their head and tell them to smarten up and do better.
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Hey hey, we have a winner.
 
J

Jharp

Member
Cliffy made not one, but THREE games featuring steroid apes with CHAINSAW GUNS, and he's calling SR immature? At least SR has the good sense not to take itself seriously.
 
D

Duffyside

Banned
Before I get carried away here, would I be mistaken in thinking that the infamous "curbstomp" from Gears games is "inspired" (and probably named) from the chilling scene in American History X?
 
H

HyperCubed4

Member
Duffyside said:
Before I get carried away here, would I be mistaken in thinking that the infamous "curbstomp" from Gears games is "inspired" (and probably named) from the chilling scene in American History X?
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Yes, but curbstomping was an actual action hortible people did before American History X. Pretty sure the Nazis did it. Or white supremacists. Point being, horrible people "popularized" it, for lack of a better word.

EDIT: yes, that's the American History X scene you're thinking of. That was a curbstomp.
 
X

XANDER CAGE

Member
Duffyside said:
Before I get carried away here, would I be mistaken in thinking that the infamous "curbstomp" from Gears games is "inspired" (and probably named) from the chilling scene in American History X?
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Probably not, no. It's not like American History X invented the concept (and I'm pretty sure it wasn't the first to put it on film either).
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
Duffyside said:
Before I get carried away here, would I be mistaken in thinking that the infamous "curbstomp" from Gears games is "inspired" (and probably named) from the chilling scene in American History X?
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I don't think so. That's the most well known use of it that I'm aware of.
 
H

HyperCubed4

Member
Duffyside said:
Did the nazis or whoever specifically make people put their head on/bite a curb?
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Presumably. Which is why the Gears of War move is more "stomp" and less "curb." Not that it really matters. Naming a move after something the worst groups in recent history used to do isn't exactly noble of Epic.
 
taizuke

taizuke

Member
Warm Machine said:
Go search Bulletstorm trailers on Youtube and there is his smiling face honestly happy about what it is he is promoting and how he is promoting it. Marketing wouldn't have picked up on it if it wasn't there in the first place.
Click to expand...

And the key component here is that he's marketing the game as something different. He'll say things like "aren't you tired of those serious war shooters? Well, here's Bulletstorm".

It's a good idea. They obviously weren't gonna compete with games in the same genre so they gave us something different. It's the same thing Volition did with SR3. What's wrong with that? I honestly think SR3 is one of the best things to come out of Volition along with Darksiders.

Just look at all the FPSs who have gone by the way side trying to cash in on CoD. I mean, what good is trying to go after the most popular title if all you gonna do is offer almost the same experience and yet be inferior?

I like Cliff don't get me wrong. I just don't know what he was thinking when he said this.
 
C

Concept17

Member
The thing about Volition throwing in dildos into SR is that as a developer, they know they're making a game. They wanted to make a completely over-the-top ridiculous pure fun game, and they did exactly that. Having stupid things like giant purple didlos in the game is just an example of them not giving a fuck and just enjoying the fact that they get to make a FUN game.

Something most developers need to take note of, Cliffy included.
 
J

Jedi2016

Member
Concept17 said:
The thing about Volition throwing in dildos into SR is that as a developer, they know they're making a game. They wanted to make a completely over-the-top ridiculous pure fun game, and they did exactly that. Having stupid things like giant purple didlos in the game is just an example of them not giving a fuck and just enjoying the fact that they get to make a FUN game.

Something most developers need to take note of, Cliffy included.
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Man, I remember when games were fun. Those were the days, weren't they? I remember playing Need for Speed and being able to drive a rocket car on the moon. What the hell happened to stuff like that?
 
B

BobsRevenge

I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
Saints Row is unadulterated excess. That's its entire appeal. The game doesn't work without it for me. The dildo is a part of this.

edit: Also, if the game could be at all taken seriously, it would probably be the most morally offensive display of garish and sociopathic artistry as has ever been created. As of right now it is only garish and sociopathic. The complete lack of seriousness allows it to appeal hedonistically, only offending tastes.
 
J

Jharp

Member
Jedi2016 said:
Man, I remember when games were fun. Those were the days, weren't they? I remember playing Need for Speed and being able to drive a rocket car on the moon. What the hell happened to stuff like that?
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Relegated to DLC

Cut from DLC schedule

Derp
 
D

DocSeuss

Member
Jharp said:
Cliffy made not one, but THREE games featuring steroid apes with CHAINSAW GUNS, and he's calling SR immature? At least SR has the good sense not to take itself seriously.
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Those games have much better writing than they get credit for.

Saint's Row is immature as fuck. Gears of War is weakly-written anti-war drama.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
DocSeuss said:
Those games have much better writing than they get credit for.
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Are we talking about the same games? The writing in Gears is perhaps the worst in the 'AAA' game field. It takes itself way too seriously, and it's just plain bad. Granted I only had the stomach to get through the first two games, maybe it gets better in 3, but during every cutscene I watched I was either laughing at it or groaning.

The Maria scene in 2 was probably the low point of the entire series and now I know why (Cliffy inserting his feelings about Terry Schiavo).
 
J

Jharp

Member
DocSeuss said:
Those games have much better writing than they get credit for.

Saint's Row is immature as fuck. Gears of War is weakly-written anti-war drama.
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I'd argue that Gears is just as immature for the reasons I listed above. Every male character is a roid-raging, ass-slapping douchey frat fantasy, and they wield chainsaw guns. That's as bad if not worse than Final Fantasy 8's gunblade silliness.

The core writing itself is not always terrible, sure. Gears 1 has some downright eerie moments and for a game so overwrought with testosterone, it managed to sometimes get across a bleak hoplessness in its tone that was chilling. Gears 2 was terrible top to bottom, and Gears 3 had... some okay dialogue, I suppose. I mean it was written by a novelist, and I felt that overall its narrative was at least tolerable, though I can't quite put my finger on why. I will say that the last hour was nothing but unintentional laughs because of how poorly it was handled, but that's the only part I felt was stupendously awful. But the writing itself isn't the problem, it's the art design, and story direction, and all that horrendous shit. The simple fact that most of us laughed or cringed during the Maria scene in 2 is ultimately indicative of that. The single most emotional moment in the entire trilogy was actually pretty funny, but for the wrong reasons.

And like I said, at least Saint's Row has the good sense not to take itself the least bit seriously. It knows what it is, and it's laughing at itself with us. And when I laugh at Saints, it's because I'm actually supposed to be laughing at it, and not because it's a twelve year old's power fantasy as depicted unironically by not-twelve year old manchildren.
 
M

mr2xxx

Banned
Just beat SR 3 and I gotta say it was a great game and I totally didn't expect it to be. It's so over the top and hilarious that I wouldn't want to neuter it any way to be mature. SR should stick with what it knows best and not try to be GTA, Sleeping Dogs or any other open world game.
 
Scapegoat

Scapegoat

Member
Dark Octave said:
Something tells me that she at least will be pushing for a whole sex shop in SR4 just to spite the Cliffster.
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It could be called Cliff's Dicks. Vandalized to Dicktits of coarse.

I really don't get his overall train of thought, basically saying they need to be more-GTA like if they want to try and beat GTA, but the point of Saints Row isn't that the gameplay and mission design is tight and intense like a movie, its that its a crazy sandbox where your blowing insane amounts of shit up.

At no point when I was playing Saints Row 3 did I think "this is cool like Heat".
 
K

keltickennedy

Member
Scapegoat said:
It could be called Cliff's Dicks. Vandalized to Dicktits of coarse.

I really don't get his overall train of thought, basically saying they need to be more-GTA like if they want to try and beat GTA, but the point of Saints Row isn't that the gameplay and mission design is tight and intense like a movie, its that its a crazy sandbox where your blowing insane amounts of shit up.

At no point when I was playing Saints Row 3 did I think "this is cool like Heat".
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Yes. Saint's Row is doing the best thing by filling in the blanks GTA leaves behind. That sounds like I'm ragging on it, but I'm really not. I enjoy both games.
 
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