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CliffyB on Saints Row: Lose the gimps and dildos to beat GTA
- Thread starter SolidSnakex
- Start date
Before Saints Row The Third I thought Volition was one of the worst devs around.
I based that opinion on Summoner 2, a game I tried to play many times and always had to stop: it wasn't all that fun (and also ugly to look at).
Then I played Saints Row The Third, with the purple suits, the gimps and the dildos (along all the other great stuff it contains) and fuck me, Volition became one of my most liked devs because Saints Row The Third is one of the best games I've played.
So, once again, CliffyB is wrong in his assessment of what Saints Row should lose, because I wouldn't have had as much fun without the type of humour the game contains, humour that the gimps and dildos are part of. I also wouldn't have felt the aesthetics of the game would have been as cool without all that awesome purple (and purple suits).
I based that opinion on Summoner 2, a game I tried to play many times and always had to stop: it wasn't all that fun (and also ugly to look at).
Then I played Saints Row The Third, with the purple suits, the gimps and the dildos (along all the other great stuff it contains) and fuck me, Volition became one of my most liked devs because Saints Row The Third is one of the best games I've played.
So, once again, CliffyB is wrong in his assessment of what Saints Row should lose, because I wouldn't have had as much fun without the type of humour the game contains, humour that the gimps and dildos are part of. I also wouldn't have felt the aesthetics of the game would have been as cool without all that awesome purple (and purple suits).
Neuromancer
Member
Warm Machine
Member
Gears of War isn't the problem as it pertains to Cliff's reputation and insight. That game is played straight, buys into its world and is pretty grounded for what it does.
Bulletstorm is by far the more embarrassing game. It takes perverse pleasure in sophomoric violence and humor, far more ugly than any dildo could achieve.
When it comes to beating GTA, GTA doesn't even need beating. They have been releasing them every 5 years! That gives a Dev a 4 year opening to make a game for that audience that can co-exist.
Bulletstorm is by far the more embarrassing game. It takes perverse pleasure in sophomoric violence and humor, far more ugly than any dildo could achieve.
When it comes to beating GTA, GTA doesn't even need beating. They have been releasing them every 5 years! That gives a Dev a 4 year opening to make a game for that audience that can co-exist.
Kickass667
Banned
If I were Volition I wouldn't follow this advice.
Suggestion, dont insult the guy. Why? Well over 20 people got banned for that in this thread. Debate his argument, but ad hominem are not good.
"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument. Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy, more precisely an irrelevance."
Nearly nobody here did any game at all, and yet we still discuss about phalic objects in video games. Him making a video game do not make him any less capable of suggestion to other company. Hell, if anything, is opinion matter even more than us who do not know the industry.
"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument. Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy, more precisely an irrelevance."
Nearly nobody here did any game at all, and yet we still discuss about phalic objects in video games. Him making a video game do not make him any less capable of suggestion to other company. Hell, if anything, is opinion matter even more than us who do not know the industry.
Kickass667
Banned
I wasn't insulting HIM, just his work.
but fine jeez if I'm gonna get banned for something so stupid I might as well.
Kickass667
Banned
crap, meant to edit my original post :/
Dont want you to get banned like the 20-30 other junior in this thread. Always nice to have new blood in the forum, not spilled on the forum.
WrenchNinja
Member
Bulletstorm's fun for the same reasons that 80's sci-fi action B-movies are fun. Hell, the lead character's a Kurt Russell clone. I can understand why you might not enjoy it, but I don't really see a cause for embarassment there.
starchild excalibur
Member
.
SR is successful because while GTA tends to be more focused on cinematic storytelling, SR provides a slapstick alternative. I prefer GTA to SR, but I like both series as they offer different things to the table. Two games both trying to be Heat: The Game is fucking lame.
Then why do you quote and tell him "don't insult, will get you banned lolz"
I seriously don't like this sort of behaviour. If you really want to warn him and not want him to get banned, tell him via PM or just don't fullquote.
Rather: Saints Row built on the Non-HD GTA style and expanded and improved it further. That's why people love it. That's why I love it.
Just played the last DLC mission of SR3 today. Oh my god
Saints Flow superpowers
zack boom when using melee attacks - now I want a 1960 batman video game
Its not like mods cant see the comment he posted before. Its more of a suggestion. Why did you add a lolz at the end?
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Holy cow, this turned into a bloodbath. I was pissed at his attitude and disagreed with the wife bit, but now I almost feel bad for saying anything.
SR3 had plenty of problems both thematically and mechanically, but it was the game I kept coming back to the most last year. Maybe I should count myself lucky to live with a lady who enjoyed it as much as I did.
SR3 had plenty of problems both thematically and mechanically, but it was the game I kept coming back to the most last year. Maybe I should count myself lucky to live with a lady who enjoyed it as much as I did.
Chittagong
Gold Member
He's right. The crazy over the top fantasy setting is the only reason I'm not interested to get SR games even though I hear they play great, I'd much more like to see a gritty, HEAT style game like he suggests. Franchise might be beyond salvaging back to realism though.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
He's only right if the majority of people that would be interested in an SR game share your opinion, and wouldn't just substitute SR3 with some other game that does that already. It just doesn't seem likely. Max Payne 3 didn't sell any better than SR3 did, so it's not like people are falling over themselves to buy a gritty Michael Mann inspired shooter.
Cliffy has been backtracking on the dudebro elements of Gears too, so throwing that back in his face doesn't make any sense at this point. He's not even working on the franchise any more.
I'm surprised you thought that about Volition considering they're the ones who made Freespace 2.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
This thread is a graveyard. :S There is still too much to process for me to give a coherent response. Everyone is right (except for those taking personal shots at Cliffy)?
Jake Tower
Banned
I hope the reveal trailer for the next Saints Row game is a bunch of dudes in purple suits beating the shit out of someone in a gimp suit resembling CliffyB with giant purple dildo bats, in slow motion, while Mad World plays.
ChimpanzeeThat
Member
I get what he means, i too enjoyed SR3 more than i did both San Andreas and GTA IV.
I wouldn't say i was uncomfortable by the gimp and dildo stuff but it does devalue it a little. Saints Row already suffers from being called a copycat series, it shouldn't be a gimmicky one either.
I wouldn't say i was uncomfortable by the gimp and dildo stuff but it does devalue it a little. Saints Row already suffers from being called a copycat series, it shouldn't be a gimmicky one either.
I hope the reveal trailer for the next Saints Row game is a bunch of dudes in purple suits beating the shit out of someone in a gimp suit resembling CliffyB with giant purple dildo bats, in slow motion, while Mad World plays.
I would go out and pre-order five copies of Saints Row 4 if they did this.
No I wouldn't, I totally would do that for a Descent 4. ;___;
Askherserenity
Member
At work and not sure how to embed tweets...
Ryan Davis ‏@taswell
@therealcliffyb do you consider the humor in Bulletstorm a weakness? do you think it would've sold better without the creative cursing?
Ryan Davis ‏@taswell
@therealcliffyb do you consider the humor in Bulletstorm a weakness? do you think it would've sold better without the creative cursing?
Askherserenity
Member
There we go <3
PinkCrayon
Member
Marketing? After I played it I saw the dicktits games, not a cool scifi shooter.
If the next Bulletstorm wants to beat Call Of Duty, it should loose the "kill your dicks" and "fungal rimjobs". Oh wait, there will never be a sequel.
If the next Bulletstorm wants to beat Call Of Duty, it should loose the "kill your dicks" and "fungal rimjobs". Oh wait, there will never be a sequel.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Watch out, Ryan. Cliff, the purveyor of all that is professional in gaming, may tell you to blow him on Twitter for this.
NullPointer
Member
Bulletstorm without dick killing? What madness is this?
diffusionx
Gold Member
I think CliffyB is right. I say that as someone who really enjoys SR.
SR3 left me cold - not just the game, but the story/writing too. The whole "pimps n hoes" thing has run its course. They can do funny, silly, and irreverant without rehashing old Snoop Dogg tropes.
Also: Shame about Bulletstorm. That game is brilliant. I was playing it just the other day. Genius.
SR3 left me cold - not just the game, but the story/writing too. The whole "pimps n hoes" thing has run its course. They can do funny, silly, and irreverant without rehashing old Snoop Dogg tropes.
Also: Shame about Bulletstorm. That game is brilliant. I was playing it just the other day. Genius.
Circle Jerk
Member
I went to Cliff's twitter and he totally retweeted someone calling someone else a tranny. Truly a man we should look to for lessons on maturity.
There aren't that many pimp n hoes jokes in SR3, so i think people are totally over reacting.
diffusionx
Gold Member
One of the main characters is a stereotypical pimp, you know.
I know SR3 brought a lot of new people to the series. The thing is, the game's tone is exactly like the first two, so maybe I'm just over it at this point.
snoopeasystreet
Member
BulletStorm is a great game despite the crassness. Saints Row 3 has nothing without it. If anything, Saints Row should embrace being the family guy of video games and go further off the rails with the wackiness.
Neuromancer
Member
Fairly reasonable responses by Cliffy.Here:
The game tone is nothing like SR1.
Eh, not really. Saints row 1 was mocking gang and thug life. Saints Row 2 continued that but replaced the thug gang philosophy with goofy and unique gangs. Saints Row 3 is wacky but still literal and believable in of itself.
Also Cliff is backpedaling with those comments. When the dude had creative control over a project, he didn't take his own advice that he just gave to Volition.
Beelzeboss
Member
Why did Bulletstorm have to be brought up?
Just remembering how it was treated bums me out.
Just remembering how it was treated bums me out.
Here:
Absolutely correct.
There are many GAFFers that have never played the awesome that is Bulletstorm because marketing latched on to the more crude and juvenile elements. Don't get me wrong, those elements are important parts of the game but they should've played up the crazy combat more and the fact that the lead, Grayson Hunt, goes from a douchebag asshole to more of a cocky rouge that feels remorse for the things he's responsible for and wants to make things right. It was very decent character growth from a game and studio you wouldn't expect it from.
But focusing so much on DICKTITS, BUTTERDICK JONES and those really weird packages they sent media did them zero favors. That game really should've gotten a sequel and more love from the masses.
When you're working on something, it's hard to make those observations. Now in his position, he could look back on Gears of War 2 and say "Well, that Maria stuff was really bad and we could've done better" or "Maybe we should've had better character growth from the first game as opposed to almost getting it in the final game of the trilogy."
GuitarAtomik
Member
Though I don't think it necessarily needs dildos and gimp suits, Saints Row's appeal is it's complete over-the-top-ness. It's what keeps it from being the sub-par GTA clone that so many other games have been. Turning it into a game influenced by Michael Mann would totally throw it back in to a category of trying to out GTA GTA and would pretty much ruin the niche it's carved out for itself which is one in which Rockstar is content avoiding.