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COMICS! |OT| May 2015. Those things your favorite movie/show/game/etc. was based on.
- Thread starter Spike Spiegel
- Start date
- Status
When you see a bug in your house and you don't know what to hit it with, use a borrowed trade.
As I said. It is water damaged and then also bent. Not sure which happened first.
Pax America thoughts for Veelk:
So Pax is a pretty fascinating comic for me, conceptually and in practice it is absolutely brilliant and unlike some of the other Multiversity one shots I don't see any way it could ever work as an on going series. It's obviously a reaction to Miller and Moore and the bits of dark n gritty they introduced and popularized into modern comics. This should surprise no one really because Morrison has very publically decried those themes, it's probably his magnum opus in that regards honestly. As a comic story it's just so perfectly conceived and executed, Morrison and Quitely created a comic that can literally be read forwards and backwards to tell it's story (when reading it in reverse, the panels depicting the president's assassination through to the cover of the comic are absolutely perfect). I don't think it's even important whether or not Algorithm 8 works or not, you can pretty easily make a case that it's simply a manifestation of the President's guilt over killing his father as a child. I think it's a more interesting story if you consider that Atom knows this plan will fail, but goes through with it any way simply because that's the way it has to be. He can see their origins and he can see their endings, but he never makes a case for being able to change those beginnings or endings. The door may open both ways, but only if Atom wants to or believes it's the way things were always going to. I've been toying with the idea that nothing Atom tells the president is actually in reference to what is happening in their reality, but rather broader statements about the multiversal crisis. In the end the door did open both ways for Nix and company, and that's how they were
With all that said, Thunderworld was my favorite issue of the lot, because it was just so pitch perfect.
If you're not a fan of Morrison already, I don't see this as being the book to flip the switch for you. Something smaller in scope like We3 or Joe the Barbarian might be better starting points, they're undeniably Morrison, but a bit easier to digest and dive into.
So Pax is a pretty fascinating comic for me, conceptually and in practice it is absolutely brilliant and unlike some of the other Multiversity one shots I don't see any way it could ever work as an on going series. It's obviously a reaction to Miller and Moore and the bits of dark n gritty they introduced and popularized into modern comics. This should surprise no one really because Morrison has very publically decried those themes, it's probably his magnum opus in that regards honestly. As a comic story it's just so perfectly conceived and executed, Morrison and Quitely created a comic that can literally be read forwards and backwards to tell it's story (when reading it in reverse, the panels depicting the president's assassination through to the cover of the comic are absolutely perfect). I don't think it's even important whether or not Algorithm 8 works or not, you can pretty easily make a case that it's simply a manifestation of the President's guilt over killing his father as a child. I think it's a more interesting story if you consider that Atom knows this plan will fail, but goes through with it any way simply because that's the way it has to be. He can see their origins and he can see their endings, but he never makes a case for being able to change those beginnings or endings. The door may open both ways, but only if Atom wants to or believes it's the way things were always going to. I've been toying with the idea that nothing Atom tells the president is actually in reference to what is happening in their reality, but rather broader statements about the multiversal crisis. In the end the door did open both ways for Nix and company, and that's how they were
able to stave off the attempts of the Gentry and see the dark version of Ultraa on his throne with the empty hand.
If you're not a fan of Morrison already, I don't see this as being the book to flip the switch for you. Something smaller in scope like We3 or Joe the Barbarian might be better starting points, they're undeniably Morrison, but a bit easier to digest and dive into.
Steam plz.
whatsinaname
Member
With Marvel's paper quality? It might just have been left next to a humidifier for 5 minutes or so.
I had someone do this to a Calvin & Hobbes book that was in my room. Someone took it out of my dorm room without my permission. And I had actually borrowed it from someone else. :/
KoruptData
Member
Quoting for a new page because holy shit guys, thanks.
How does Nix tie into being a character in Earth Prime but also into the hero struggle. In Final Crisis, Nix was a monitor who was outcast to Earth Prime. In Multiversity, he is that Earth Prime outcast dreaming about being that last monitor in this huge story. I'm trying to piece the meanings of that together.
How does Nix tie into being a character in Earth Prime but also into the hero struggle. In Final Crisis, Nix was a monitor who was outcast to Earth Prime. In Multiversity, he is that Earth Prime outcast dreaming about being that last monitor in this huge story. I'm trying to piece the meanings of that together.
Eh...maybe in such a way that it doesn't break the illusion of the story being a genuine thing, which of course is a subjective matter. I dislike ever saying something will never work, because I try to keep as open a mind as possible.
For me, the key point has to be that the story is just authentic. It can't turn into a lecture on anything. I guess the closest example would be avatar the last airbender with various messages you could extrapolate, but it never went up to you and straight up said "War is wrong!" or anything. The closest is the katara episode on revenge, and I'd easily argue that's one of the weaker episodes. It was always mostly concerned with creating real characters.
Its honestly a bigger problem with Morrison because he's so loud about his beliefs. If the creators keep quiet, it's harder to assume anything about them through their work, which I try not to take as an indication of their personal beliefs.
Tyrant Rave
Banned
The thing I like about Grant Morrison is his compactness. Im a picky reader. I bore easily. And whatever Im reading, no matter what it is, Im always thinking about the story and the storytelling. When I see a page thats just four panels of a woman being asked for a glass of water, then she accepts, and thats the only narrative information gained
I wanna throw that fucking comic in the shredder b. You got 22 pages here, and thats what you use it for? On the flip side, there are really wordy mothafuckas who write a lot of comics, but dont go nowhere. Scott Snyder will stop narrative momentum in his decompressed-ass derivative stories so a character can throw up a big old furball of exposition about owls or whales or what theyre gonna do to them its like for fucks sake b. You read like 70 Hickman comics, turn to your friend, go oh MAN
next issue, #71, shit is gonna start going down!
With Grant Morrison, I feel he has the same love that I do of the 22-page comic, these potentially wonderful ultimately throwaway things and what you can do in that space. He wants to get you bang for your buck, so he doesnt waste words. If he has to do exposition, hell think of some visually interesting way to convey it. He spends a lot of time thinking about the exact line of dialog this particular character should say on this particular panel in this particular context. He has a love for spectacle, but he wants to make sure every single issue counts. While others are ok with one cool idea, hell try to do half a dozen.
He doesnt have much in the way of explanations or exposition, which for a lot of readers have the misconception that hes just throwing shit at a wall in some drug-induced mayhem, but instead he writes for an audience thats familiar with the tropes, who can connect some of the dots without holding your hand all the way through. Fast-paced comics, stuffed with ideas and cool visuals.
He has a very economic sense of characterization that he boils them down to their essence. Hes gotten so good at it that sometimes he can just so sound effects (Hh, Batmans confident grunt of acknowledgement or satisfaction, Tt, Damians arrogant waving off of a situation he feels is beneath him). Its because of the exactness of characters and his worlds and comics, you can easily see them as non-people, or not believe in them as real. Hes not someone who creates space for to see your own interpretations of these characters, hes already has them down to their core.
Say that opening page of All-Star Superman, where Supermans origin is boiled down to four panels and eight words. For a lot of people, whove seen years of various Superman origins or questioning who he is and what matters and what doesnt, to see his conception broken down into such essential, perfect capsules is brilliant. To others, they could see it but not believe it, its too perfect, too controlled, compressed, concise. The parents arent real, theyre quickhand signifiers. The journey isnt dramatized, its simply acknowledged, so we can get to the part where Superman flies through the fuckin sun where Luthor has a living bomb on board.
It takes a kind of certain kind of history with these characters to fully appreciate the compactness of his Morrisons comics. Theres that one page where Superman comes to Lex and tell him to be good, and Lex just spits on the glass.
http://readrant.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/luthor-spits-at-superman.jpg
I see a wonderful encapsulation of their entire relationship, a single page, a single unit of this 22 page book worth a thousand words, worth more than all the many many pages and many many words spent on getting to this point in the tedious Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. But for others, its just an image. A comic book caricature that doesnt show the whole story, doesnt dive into them as people.
Theres the suicide girl page everyone likes, but to show the opposite of that perfect compact scene, heres a similar one where JMS spends MANY words and several pages of this 22 page book getting to a giant splash page that doesnt have any of the elemental power of that one page and its perfect dialog choices.
For fucks sake man, that was like half the issue for this shit, and the suicide girl was one page, one idea, one compelling comic book sequence of many in that tour-de-force issue.
But thats me, and thats my taste. I look at something like Clown at Midnight, which all its flowery, nauseating purple prose and awful awful artwork, jerking off to its overblown alliteration. casually, the coffin crushes Charlie cheesemolds sternum to splinters and splits . FUCK YOU I wanted to read a comic book.
With Grant Morrison, I feel he has the same love that I do of the 22-page comic, these potentially wonderful ultimately throwaway things and what you can do in that space. He wants to get you bang for your buck, so he doesnt waste words. If he has to do exposition, hell think of some visually interesting way to convey it. He spends a lot of time thinking about the exact line of dialog this particular character should say on this particular panel in this particular context. He has a love for spectacle, but he wants to make sure every single issue counts. While others are ok with one cool idea, hell try to do half a dozen.
He doesnt have much in the way of explanations or exposition, which for a lot of readers have the misconception that hes just throwing shit at a wall in some drug-induced mayhem, but instead he writes for an audience thats familiar with the tropes, who can connect some of the dots without holding your hand all the way through. Fast-paced comics, stuffed with ideas and cool visuals.
He has a very economic sense of characterization that he boils them down to their essence. Hes gotten so good at it that sometimes he can just so sound effects (Hh, Batmans confident grunt of acknowledgement or satisfaction, Tt, Damians arrogant waving off of a situation he feels is beneath him). Its because of the exactness of characters and his worlds and comics, you can easily see them as non-people, or not believe in them as real. Hes not someone who creates space for to see your own interpretations of these characters, hes already has them down to their core.
Say that opening page of All-Star Superman, where Supermans origin is boiled down to four panels and eight words. For a lot of people, whove seen years of various Superman origins or questioning who he is and what matters and what doesnt, to see his conception broken down into such essential, perfect capsules is brilliant. To others, they could see it but not believe it, its too perfect, too controlled, compressed, concise. The parents arent real, theyre quickhand signifiers. The journey isnt dramatized, its simply acknowledged, so we can get to the part where Superman flies through the fuckin sun where Luthor has a living bomb on board.
It takes a kind of certain kind of history with these characters to fully appreciate the compactness of his Morrisons comics. Theres that one page where Superman comes to Lex and tell him to be good, and Lex just spits on the glass.
http://readrant.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/luthor-spits-at-superman.jpg
I see a wonderful encapsulation of their entire relationship, a single page, a single unit of this 22 page book worth a thousand words, worth more than all the many many pages and many many words spent on getting to this point in the tedious Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. But for others, its just an image. A comic book caricature that doesnt show the whole story, doesnt dive into them as people.
Theres the suicide girl page everyone likes, but to show the opposite of that perfect compact scene, heres a similar one where JMS spends MANY words and several pages of this 22 page book getting to a giant splash page that doesnt have any of the elemental power of that one page and its perfect dialog choices.
For fucks sake man, that was like half the issue for this shit, and the suicide girl was one page, one idea, one compelling comic book sequence of many in that tour-de-force issue.
But thats me, and thats my taste. I look at something like Clown at Midnight, which all its flowery, nauseating purple prose and awful awful artwork, jerking off to its overblown alliteration. casually, the coffin crushes Charlie cheesemolds sternum to splinters and splits . FUCK YOU I wanted to read a comic book.
Just Concise
I see what you are trying....
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Guys. I think it's time for another DC / Marvel crossover event. Amalgam 2.0. Let's bring back Dark Claw! A Harley / [marvel hero here] mash up!
Deadpool
Tyrant Rave
Banned
^we need Deadpool and Deathstroke going against each other!
Not quite sure what my favorite issue was though. I really loved Thunderworld just because I'm a sucker for those kind of happy-go-lucky golden-agey stories and their color palettes. Ultra Comics was just a really fun read as well and Guidebook was way better than I ever imagined it to be. Beyond that it's all kinda up in the air.
Just wanted to say I really like your posts on Multiversity, tim. I fully agree with your interpretation on the last issue almost word for word.
Not quite sure what my favorite issue was though. I really loved Thunderworld just because I'm a sucker for those kind of happy-go-lucky golden-agey stories and their color palettes. Ultra Comics was just a really fun read as well and Guidebook was way better than I ever imagined it to be. Beyond that it's all kinda up in the air.
Nix is our avatar in the story, ultimately we are all the Monitor and Superjudge of the stories we read and the fictions we create about them in our heads. Nix taking on the Gentry and becoming corrupted is the reader becoming too involved in the minutiae of the stories and looking for meaning then is there. He gets his $800 and his happy ending, because that's what we all want, our own happy endings and whatever our own $800 struggle may be. We may be the God/Devils and keepers of the Oblivion Machine, but we are also observers and Monitors. Every week we come in here and judge the stuff we read and ultimately decide it's fate--does it succumb to gentrification and become just another book on our lists, or does it stave off that through creativity and sheer force of will? We are Nix Uotan,
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Hah good choice
Edit: did anyone buy Empire Uprising? The first mini was awesome. It was essentially said writing a story as "what if Doom won?"
KoruptData
Member
Fantastic! This is what makes it better for me was figuring out who Nix is. I had suspicions he was us but nothing positive. What is the line of the rent collector at the end? Something about not making excuses. My comics are boxed up.
Thanks man.
It's weird how unsettling Ultra Comics was to read. It's such a simple concept (it was first executed in a children's picture book for goodness sake), but it's executed so flawlessly that it really is almost disturbing to read that issue.
I was checking Final Crisis, and then you went and done nailed it. Nix wasn't cast out to Earth Prime, he got an happy ending, and became the protagonist of another story, where he's just a kid reading comic books.
The whole Superjudge thing is just a projection of himself as the continuation of the Final Crisis story, where he's the last Monitor, protecting the Multiverse after everyone left.
"No more byzantine implausible excuses", which is a goof because the entire reason he got the cash is byzantine and implausible.
Oh, so you mean the fire burns forever?
You should try something of his divorced from superhero comics. I feel We3 gets that reaction. Though I wouldn't expect We3 or Joe the Barbarian to give you an epiphany on Morrison's superhero work. But you might like them better all the same.
I would say probably that if you've only been reading comics for a few years, that might take a lot of the impact of All Star away. Part of what I love about it is how it weaves in and out of what's almost a Superman history lesson, touching on aspects of the character and its mythos that have been so prevalent over the years.
I never really felt that it was preachy in any way, or that the world was 'unbelievable', though I don't really consider the effectiveness of the villains to be that barometer in this story.
The story is much less about, imo, whether or not this is a book that would allow a girl to actually hit the pavement as it is about Superman being there and what he would say to prevent it.
Funny how that worked out, huh?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Just saw AoU. So Ultron
Still a jobber but he was interesting.
was basically an evil Tony Stark.
yo wtf
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Star Wars ep 7 is the real hype for me. Seeing avengers feels more like an obligation
Schweinehund
Member
AoU is to Civil War as Convergence is to Darkseid War. If that makes any sense, it feels like it will be filler and the real Avengers 2 is Civil War. Suppose I'll find out tomorrow.
Freezasaurus
Member
Yes, but
Hank Pym wasn't a factor here (as Ultron's creator), and they had to make Ultron somewhat derivative of Tony Stark. I think that's why Ultron was more humorous than expected.
I can't fuck with anything SW outside the EU and nothing about EP7 screams promising to me. I'll see who ends up with 8 and 9, but Rian Johnson's Star Wars sounds more visually and story-interesting than JJ Abrams'.
Freezasaurus
Member
Which part Freeza?! I need to know why we're about to fight
Freezasaurus
Member
Oh. I'm not even a Star Trek guy and Star Trek was so bad it made me hate Chris Pine who I already disliked for some reason. And JJ Abrams. I haven't seen enough other Abrams work to REALLY judge, but that was just such a butchery that I can't sanction him ruining two sci-fi franchises.
And yes, Looper was awesome visually with its 80s sci-fi throwback look. Would be great fit for Star Trek.
I'll be honest though I've only seen three out of the six Star Wars movies 'cause my interest in the series is mostly relegated to the games, some comics... mostly the games..
And yes, Looper was awesome visually with its 80s sci-fi throwback look. Would be great fit for Star Trek.
I'll be honest though I've only seen three out of the six Star Wars movies 'cause my interest in the series is mostly relegated to the games, some comics... mostly the games..
Freezasaurus
Member
I definitely liked Looper.
But as to Star Trek, I was never what would qualify as a Trekkie, but I've watched my fair share of late-night Next Generation and Deep Space Nine reruns. I was always more of a Star Wars guy, though, and JJ Abrams approach made Star Trek more appealing to me in that regard.
Oh good, Looper was awesome. We're cool again.
Abrams' Star Trek's characters just all rubbed me the wrong way for them already being established characters. As an adaptation it was.. odd.
Back to comics OT I GUESS
As I'm quite feeling the Avengers Hype, are there any modern-ish Avengers things I should be reading on Marvel Unlimited? BMB's New Avengers? I know Hickman's new stuff is good but I'm not done with his FF yet.
KoruptData
Member
I reread Multiversity 1&2 and the discussion tonight helped so much. I was able to formulate my thoughts and everyone else's and it made it so much better which is actually the theme of Ultra Comics.
Yesss. It had been too long since we had a solid Morrison discussion. That was some good reading.
I would definitely recommend Doom Patrol. To me it's all about the nature of life. You could see it differently, however.
I still really need to pick that up. Glad you enjoyed it!
Agreed. Clown at Midnight is by far my least favorite Morrison thing. The writing to me was just plain boring and the "art" was absolutely horrid. I think in the context of an actual book maybe I would've enjoyed the story more, but when I sit down to read a comic, I expect a comic, not 20-ish pages of prose. That mindset definitely played a part in souring it for me.
Very nice! That The Filth OHC looks pretty fancy. I might want to pick that up someday.
What.
I would definitely recommend Doom Patrol. To me it's all about the nature of life. You could see it differently, however.
I still really need to pick that up. Glad you enjoyed it!
Agreed. Clown at Midnight is by far my least favorite Morrison thing. The writing to me was just plain boring and the "art" was absolutely horrid. I think in the context of an actual book maybe I would've enjoyed the story more, but when I sit down to read a comic, I expect a comic, not 20-ish pages of prose. That mindset definitely played a part in souring it for me.
Very nice! That The Filth OHC looks pretty fancy. I might want to pick that up someday.
What.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Holy shit guys. Ultron was a fucking masterpiece of awesome comic movies. I can't even. Perfectly and organically balancing new characters in a way that made x men movies look like Times Square shots in 80s movies. And so delightfully funny, so many incredible action sequences, and it had so many moments that could resonate with fans but weren't completely dull or impenetrable to the non-reader. Textbook. Just perfection.
I mean, I try to keep my overreactions down to a 7
but I did like that Avengers understands that merely adding a cool character doesn't equal having one, x-men throws in cool characters that disappear midway through for no reason so wolverine can do more stuff
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I thought there were too many jokes throughout the movie.
Freezasaurus
Member
Naaaah. Gotta lighten things up man. Can't have everything being all gloom-and-doom through the whole movie.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I didn't feel that way. They were so organically done and fun. Loved the whole tone. The MCU is just such a fucking blast. I'm so glad GOTG wasn't a flash in the pan. That kind of approach, right hand throwing a punch, left arm ribbing your buddy, like "yeah, this is all a bit ridiculous, huh. Let's go save the world," is what I've loved about Marvel since I was in the fourth grade. It's what Remender is so fantastic at too. The opening scene in Rage is all that tone distilled into perfect greatness.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
The only time there was heavy dark moments was when
Scarlet Witch messed with Cap, Widow, Tony, and thor's mind and they started being haunted by their visions and when QS died
I just don't think all the jokes worked imo. I think Guardians did the whole buddy comedy thing perfectly like, "Ha look at us jackasses trying to save the world!" Too many one liners for me.
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