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[OpinionatedCyborg]

We have yet to fully know the motives behind the shooting, but I hope the information we've gained so far serves as a valuable lesson that rushing quickly to judgment is a very bad idea. So many people's minds are so warped by politics that they instantly rushed to conclusions without any facts. I think we can all agree that Sarah Palin and her political strategies are disgusting and potentially dangerous, but I hope we can also agree that blaming her for mass murders is quite a bit of a stretch, especially when we had no information whatsoever.

Seriously, the first 10 - 12 pages are really, really scary...

 

[DangerousMali]

sorry, didn't read thread fast enough, but that's awesome news

 

[Evlar]

There is another reason that there is no GlennBeck or Rush Limbaugh on the left (a statement you can only make if you ignore the majority of the entire staff of MSNBC, and the editorial staff of many of the nation's largest newspapers)

This is ridiculous. In the literal sense: It is deserving of ridicule.

This presumption that Left and Right are equally culpable or capable in every possible measure is bullshit, and needs to be called out as bullshit.

 

[Mifune]

We have yet to fully know the motives behind the shooting, but I hope the information we've gained so far serves as a valuable lesson that rushing quickly to judgment is a very bad idea. So many people's minds are so warped by politics that they instantly rushed to conclusions without any facts. I think we can all agree that Sarah Palin and her political strategies are disgusting and potentially dangerous, but I hope we can also agree that blaming her for mass murders is quite a bit of a stretch, especially when we had no information whatsoever.

Seriously, the first 10 - 12 pages are really, really scary...

Yeah, that's certainly the most important thing to take out of all of this. Way to put things in perspective.

 

[ivysaur12]

Pima County Sheriff said pretty much the exact same thing about the political climate. Are you mystified by him as well?

He's getting crap for that a lot by Republicans right now. Not to say he's right or wrong, but people are questioning it.

I'm not sure what to think about it, to be honest. I was surprised either way.

 

[JayDubya]

Pima County Sheriff said pretty much the exact same thing about the political climate. Are you mystified by him as well?

Mystified by an elected politician playing politics?

 

[JoeBoy101]

sorry, didn't read thread fast enough, but that's awesome news

Yeah, I mean its no short of goddamn miracle. Shot in the head, bullet went through and through, and last I read, she's responsive and talking to people. My little brain has trouble even processing it. Hope she recovers completely and fully.

 

[BertramCooper]

Pima County Sheriff said pretty much the exact same thing about the political climate. Are you mystified by him as well?

By him saying that? Yeah, a bit. But given the general fucked-up-ness of Arizona in the past year, it's not all that surprising that he'd say that.

Yeah, that's certainly the most important thing to take out of all of this. Way to put things in perspective.

Where did Cyborg say that was the most important thing? You're putting words in his mouth.

 

[Mifune]

He's getting crap for that a lot by Republicans right now. Not to say he's right or wrong, but people are questioning it.

I think, given his position and what he has seen in his state, he's absolutely justified to say what he said.

 

[DrForester]

sorry, didn't read thread fast enough, but that's awesome news

Don't bother. This thread is about 1% info on the shooting and 99% political bitching and finger pointing.

 

[Tristam]

The answer is yes, yes you did.

The answer is that I went to bed.

OK, now I know that you were being sarcastic, which was genuinely difficult to tell, given my understanding of what inspires your moral outrage. You were also being a callous asshole.

Were you also being sarcastic when your response to George Tillman's murder was "What's an abortion doctor doing in a church?" Or just a callous asshole?

 

[JoeBoy101]

I think, given his position and what he has seen in his state, he's absolutely justified to say what he said.

I think he's gruesomely taking an opportunity to climb up on a soapbox to preach about whatever is on his mind. That is, of course, unless he wants to release information and statements about the shooter's motives.

Don't bother. This thread is about 1% info on the shooting and 99% political bitching and finger pointing.

Pretty much. Any word on when the next press conference on her condition will be?

 

[ivysaur12]

I think, given his position and what he has seen in his state, he's absolutely justified to say what he said.

I'm not saying that he's not, just that he is being questioned about it. I agree with him in general on the current climate in Arizona, though I still question how much of that type of rhetoric actually affected the suspect to do this. We shall see.

We still need more information.

 

[Stinkles]

Mystified by an elected politician playing politics?

He stated facts Dubya. Facts. The political invective is stranger, more intense and more one-sided than it has been in my lifetime. I haven't lived through media saturation of a single poorly defined point of view until the last few years.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Pima County Sheriff said pretty much the exact same thing about the political climate. Are you mystified by him as well?

Uh, that guy is a Democrat political hack, and many in Arizona will tell you he's positioning himself in the Democrat party for a nomination to run for Governor against Jan Brewer next term, or trying to get another State office appointment from a Democrat.

This is the same Sheriff who was involved heavily in the imigration debate and put himself on the national stage, remember?

An Arizona sheriff said today that he has "no intention of complying" with the state's controversial new immigration law, calling it "abominable" and a "national embarrassment."

The defiance by Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik was perhaps the sharpest rebuke to Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer for signing into law last Friday a bill that empowers police in the state to stop people they suspect may be illegal immigrants and demand identification.

Critics rallied around the country today, claiming the law fosters racism and was a bad policing measure.

Dupnik told ABCNews.com that he'd like Brewer to know that "what she and the legislature has accomplished is morally wrong and a national embarrassment."

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/protestors...ycott-state/story?id=10487582&tqkw=&tqshow=WN

 

[Clevinger]

Don't bother. This thread is about 1% info on the shooting and 99% political bitching and finger pointing.

More like 50% of super awesome dudes like you so obviously above finger pointing, and 50% political bullshit.

 

[Stinkles]

Uh, that guy is a Democrat political hack, and many in Arizona will tell you he's positioning himself in the Democrat party for a nomination to run for Governor against Jan Brewer next term.

This is the same Sheriff who was involved heavily in the imigration debate and put himself on the national stage, remember?



http://abcnews.go.com/WN/protestors...ycott-state/story?id=10487582&tqkw=&tqshow=WN

He sounds pretty smart for a Sherriff.

 

[Tapiozona]

By him saying that? Yeah, a bit. But given the general fucked-up-ness of Arizona in the past year, it's not all that surprising that he'd say that.

Easy to say that when you don't live here. Other than this tragedy, Arizona has been doing pretty awesome. Not pussy footing around issues which actually matter here.

 

[Salazar]

He sounds pretty smart for a Sherriff.

This.

Hilarious that Pristine_Condition thinks that quoted news article counts against him.

 

[Clevinger]

Easy to say that when you don't like here. Other than this tragedy, Arizona has been doing pretty awesome. Not pussy footing around issues which actually matter here.

:lol

I live in Arizona and it's been a moronic embarrassment for at least the last decade. It's only getting worse. Though perhaps it will change after this.

 

[BertramCooper]

Easy to say that when you don't live here. Other than this tragedy, Arizona has been doing pretty awesome. Not pussy footing around issues which actually matter here.

I didn't mean to make a negative or positive judgement. Certainly, Arizona is facing issues that few other states have to deal with.

Perhaps "heated" would have been a better descriptor.

 

[TL4E]

Good news to hear the Congresswoman may recover well. Prayers continue to go out to her and the other victims/families. Let's not forget everyone else.




So, judging from the content of your post, the "standard of discourse" that is "just much higher among the left" includes the philosophy that not all "right-wingers have subpar intellects," just that "most people who are extremely lacking mentally tend to gravitate towards the right-wing."

It's not a philosophy, it's something that has been consistently demonstrated (scientifically) if your definition of intellect involves cognitive reasoning, raw IQ, and other standardized test scores. So no, the "standard of discourse" doesn't include this aforementioned "philosophy,"--it merely might have a role in explaining why the right has so many high-profile commentators who rely on fear mongering, factual distortion, and "truthiness" to provide their discourse.

There is another reason that there is no GlennBeck or Rush Limbaugh on the left (a statement you can only make if you ignore the majority of the entire staff of MSNBC, and the editorial staff of many of the nation's largest newspapers) that you haven't considered that is actually measurable. They fail in the ratings horribly.

You're saying that the reason there's no Rush on the left is because no one would watch him? Doesn't that make liberals look good? :lol

 

[Gaborn]

This.

Hilarious that Pristine_Condition thinks that quoted news article counts against him.

You think a sheriff should just ignore state laws they disagree with? I think the arizona law is bad in principle, and I think Prop 19 if passed would have done a LOT of good in California, but just as I criticized Lee Baca for vowing to ignore prop 19 if passed this sheriff is no better. I don't want law enforcement picking and choosing what laws they enforce. Either enforce the law on the books or quit your damn job.

 

[Tapiozona]

:lol

I live in Arizona and it's been a moronic embarrassment for at least the last decade.

Agree to disagree then. We both have first hand insight and I won't sway your view and you won't sway mine. I'm just not a fan of those who criticize from outside the state lines.

I didn't mean to make a negative or positive judgement. Certainly, Arizona is facing issues that few other states have to deal with.

Perhaps "heated" would have been a better descriptor.

Nevermind then..my bad

 

[JayDubya]

The answer is that I went to bed.

Great.

OK, now I know that you were being sarcastic, which was genuinely difficult to tell

Bullshit.

Were you also being sarcastic when your response to George Tillman's murder was "What's an abortion doctor doing in a church?"

Well, I know that is not an accurate quote. I would never call that man a doctor.

 

[Stinkles]

This.

Hilarious that Pristine_Condition thinks that quoted news article counts against him.

Or that the mere idea of criticizing the tone of debate is somehow a leftist attack of the righteousness of the right. Everyone, left and right, should be embarrassed by the state of political discourse in this country.

 

[Salazar]

You think a sheriff should just ignore state laws they disagree with?

I assume he is complying with the law and was just speaking his mind.

 

[Tristam]

Great.



Bullshit.



Well, I know that is not an accurate quote. I would never call that man a doctor.

OK, so callous asshole it is.

EDIT: And in the interests of accuracy:

You know what else is hypocritical? George Tiller in a church.

 

[Gaborn]

I assume he is complying with the law and was just speaking his mind.

So you assume by "speaking his mind" he was lying when he said he had "no intention of complying" with the law"?

 

[DrForester]

We interrupt this political bitchfest to bring you some info about the shooting..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40978517/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

List of the 6 dead has been released.

* John M. Roll, 63, a federal district court judge.
* Gabriel Zimmerman, 30, Giffords' director of community outreach.
* Dorwin Stoddard, 76, a pastor at Mountain Ave. Church of Christ.
* Christina Greene, 9, a student at Mesa Verde Elementary.
* Dorthy Murray, 76.
* Phyllis Scheck, 79.

Also, some very scarce info about the "accomplice"

Investigators said they were looking for an accomplice, believed to be in his 50s, who may have assisted in the attack.

Dupnik said authorities have pictures indicating the existence of a second person aiding in the attack.

Wonder why they aren't seeking more public help to track down this 2nd guy. If they were trying to just get the guy to lower his guard or something you'd think they wouldn't have mentioned him at all.

 

[Salazar]

So you assume by "speaking his mind" he was lying when he said he had "no intention of enforcing the law"?

Not lying, no.

 

[JayDubya]

OK, so callous asshole it is.

Cheers. Since you've got nothing else to add, kindly take a nice swig off a mug of STFU.

 

[Gaborn]

Not lying, no.

Then I'm confused. If he was speaking his mind, but complying with state law, and NOT lying, why would he say he had no intention of complying with the law?

 

[Evlar]

Similar to the law enforcement that refused to enforce Florida anti-sodomy laws all those years prior to 2003, I suppose.

 

[Crisis]

Uh, that guy is a Democratic political hack, and many in Arizona will tell you he's positioning himself in the Democratic party for a nomination to run for Governor against Jan Brewer next term, or trying to get another State office appointment from a Democrat.

This is the same Sheriff who was involved heavily in the imigration debate and put himself on the national stage, remember?



http://abcnews.go.com/WN/protestors...ycott-state/story?id=10487582&tqkw=&tqshow=WN

1. I fixed that for you chief.

2. So basically what you're saying is that he exercised common sense?

 

[Gaborn]

Similar to the law enforcement that refused to enforce Florida anti-sodomy laws all those years prior to 2003, I suppose.

They should have enforced it, and heavily. Would have invited more court challenges and gotten it overturned faster.

 

[Clevinger]

Wonder why they aren't seeking more public help to track down this 2nd guy. If they were trying to just get the guy to lower his guard or something you'd think they wouldn't have mentioned him at all.

Might have been leaked first.

 

[Evlar]

They should have enforced it, and heavily. Would have invited more court challenges and gotten it overturned faster.

Yes, because that's worked so well in the past.

 

[Salazar]

Then I'm confused. If he was speaking his mind, but complying with state law, and NOT lying, why would he say he had no intention of complying with the law?

To make, and make more effectively, the point that it is bogus.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

So no, the "standard of discourse" doesn't include this aforementioned "philosophy,"--it merely might have a role in explaining why the right has so many high-profile commentators who rely on fear mongering, factual distortion, and "truthiness" to provide their discourse.

I think it's incredibly funny to hear you pointing fingers about right-wingers engaging in "fear mongering, factual distortion, and 'truthiness'" in this thread...since this thread was filled with tons of "fear mongering" and such from the left regarding the eeeeeviiiiil Tea Partiers and their deranged gunmen, taking inspiration for mass murder from Sarah Palin.

But that's just me. Carry on... I'll get y'all started where you left off:

Tea Party = "stupid, crazy, evil"
Left-Wing = "elevating the debate"

gotcha.

 

[Clevinger]

But that's just me. Carry on... I'll get y'all started where you left off:

Tea Party = "stupid, ignorant, crazy"
Left-Wing = "just stupid and useless"

gotcha.

Sounds good.

 

[DrForester]

Might have been leaked first.

Well yeah, but once it's out there the element of surprise they might have hoped for is gone.

But I know little about law enforcement beyond watching Law and Order (i.e. none) so maybe I'm just looking into it too much.

 

[Salazar]

But I know little about law enforcement beyond watching Law and Order (i.e. none) so maybe I'm just looking into it too much.

You don't get Midsomer Murders where you live ?

 

[Snaku]

Nine year old who died. RIP. So sad. *tears up.

Heartbreaking.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I knew I shouldn't have looked at that picture. Now I'm sad.

 

[Clevinger]

oh, and I think this link might be good to check out (though don't if you don't want to be depressed):

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I knew I shouldn't have looked at that picture. Now I'm sad.

Fuck. Me too. I'm outta here. I gotta go check on my niece.

 

[JayDubya]

oh, and I think this link might be good to check out (though don't if you don't want to be depressed):

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline

Also, don't if you don't want to provide traffic to a horrible organization.

 

[TL4E]

Also, don't if you don't want to provide traffic to a horrible organization.

Do they stretch beyond stopping gun violence to something more sinister? :lol

 

[effzee]

I think it's incredibly funny to hear you pointing fingers about right-wingers engaging in "fear mongering, factual distortion, and 'truthiness'" in this thread...since this thread was filled with tons of "fear mongering" and such from the left regarding the eeeeeviiiiil Tea Partiers and their deranged gunmen, taking inspiration for mass murder from Sarah Palin.

But that's just me. Carry on... I'll get y'all started where you left off:

Tea Party = "stupid, crazy, evil"
Left-Wing = "elevating the debate"

gotcha.

Comparing forum posters to talking heads and elected officials? Nice way to avoid the point brought up and trying to equate posters to politicians.