Along with that, MTC100 seems to have missed Skylake-X having higher stock clocks than previous Intels. The 4c/4t and 4c/8t Kaby Lake-Xs are slated to not only have increased clocks over their Z270 counterparts, but depending on which sources you believe, they will have a more effective and higher quality TIM than the mainstream CPUs. If so, they won't have the temperature issues you often find with the i7 7700K, or require a delid to get more consistent ~4.8-5.1GHz 24/7 OCs. If not, I'd be surprised.
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Core i9 processors apparently coming very soon
- Thread starter DonMigs85
- Start date
scoobs
Member
Well we're in the gaming section so it doesn't seem unreasonable to say it's useless for gaming.
I wasn't saying they weren't influenced. I said adding the new i9 name was their only influence. My 2nd point was that Intel has spent years refining their branch predictions based on 32kb and 256kb cache restrictions. They simply can't react to Ryzen on something that fundamentally changes an important part of their architecture.
Your additional point that the core count increase is the 2nd sign that Intel is reacting is valid and something I overlooked. This only invalidates my 1st point and a minor one at that. It doesn't contradict my second point, Skylake X with much larger L2 cache was planned way in advance of Ryzen rumors.
Teletraan1
Banned
Thanks for the info everyone. I don't think I will be running SLI/Crossfire.
https://i.imgur.com/4zxfRgc.jpg <- retracted for being incorrect. Please see Anandtech.
Leaked by retailer. I just SSed the table posted on r/hardware
If true, Intel is not giving us a good deal, nevermind the more expensive X299 motherboards.
Leaked by retailer. I just SSed the table posted on r/hardware
If true, Intel is not giving us a good deal, nevermind the more expensive X299 motherboards.
Leaked by retailer. I just SSed the table posted on r/hardware
If true, Intel is not giving us a good deal, nevermind the more expensive X299 motherboards.
7800x for me then probably
Sectorseven
Member
That six core is still $200 more than an R5 1600.
ShadowKingpin
Member
Leaked by retailer. I just SSed the table posted on r/hardware
If true, Intel is not giving us a good deal, nevermind the more expensive X299 motherboards.
I really hope this isn't true. I was really rooting for Intel to make their prices more reasonable, but I guess I was expecting too much. The prices are lower, but not enough for more to invest in them over AMD.
Is there any speculation as to why the i9 7800x doesn't turbo boost nearly as well as the rest of the lineup? Seems like an odd outlier.
edit: Could it have something to do with Boost 2.0 vs Boost 3.0 support? I think 2.0 is for all cores, while Boost 3.0 is only for the first two?
Another rumor.
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Skyla...Kerne-bestaetigt-und-nicht-verloetet-1228994/
According to PCGH's sources, the i9s will not be soldered. So you likely need to de-lid to get the best out of them.
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Skyla...Kerne-bestaetigt-und-nicht-verloetet-1228994/
According to PCGH's sources, the i9s will not be soldered. So you likely need to de-lid to get the best out of them.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Leaked by retailer. I just SSed the table posted on r/hardware
If true, Intel is not giving us a good deal, nevermind the more expensive X299 motherboards.
fuck outtahere, Intel.
I'm probably going to be stupid and get the top of the line Intel CPU at the moment the new Titan Volta hits....
But seeing that there is a 12 core already over $1600.... and there's an 18 core processor on the way... I better start making some good trades on the market between now and then.
Would be nice for people who run virtual machines test beds/labs from their house.
But seeing that there is a 12 core already over $1600.... and there's an 18 core processor on the way... I better start making some good trades on the market between now and then.
Would be nice for people who run virtual machines test beds/labs from their house.
JershJopstin
Banned
The R5 1600(X) did that pretty nicely already. If the stock clocks are anything to go by, Intel's clock advantage is considerably smaller here as well; it'll be interesting to see just how much more performance the 6 and 8 core chips can get over Ryzen after OC. It's pretty clear Ryzen will win hands down in the perf/$ department, though.
Intel's business is more than just selling CPUs to gaming enthusiasts.
Well he does specify "gamer." He didn't say it's a waste of money for everyone. And like you said, people looking for a server level core count without spending server grade CPU money are probably pretty excited about this.
18-core Xeon processor is like $2800..
Leaked by retailer. I just SSed the table posted on r/hardware
If true, Intel is not giving us a good deal, nevermind the more expensive X299 motherboards.
If accurate, I'm probably going with the 7820x. The 10 core is tempting tho.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11464...ging-18core-hcc-silicon-to-consumers-for-1999
It's out! The new prices are quite attractive.
It's out! The new prices are quite attractive.
dr_rus
Member
- Intel Announces Skylake-X: Bringing 18-Core HCC Silicon to Consumers for $1999
- Intel Announces Kaby Lake-X Processors: High-End Desktop Getting the Latest Microarchitecture
- Intel Announces Basin Falls: The New High-End Desktop Platform and X299 Chipset
Tbh, I'm not a fan of this lineup. It's nice that they pushed 8 core part into $600 but that's pretty much the only good change relatively to BWE here. X299 boards look kinda weird as well right now.
Because they roll out them anyway and this roll out has started way earlier than you seem to think it has. The higher core count dies existing is in no way a reaction to Ryzen. The only difference here is that they are bringing more Xeon dies down to HEDT platform this time - and we can all thank AMD for that. Well, if you're ok with paying ~$1500 for a CPU, of course.
- Intel Announces Kaby Lake-X Processors: High-End Desktop Getting the Latest Microarchitecture
- Intel Announces Basin Falls: The New High-End Desktop Platform and X299 Chipset
Tbh, I'm not a fan of this lineup. It's nice that they pushed 8 core part into $600 but that's pretty much the only good change relatively to BWE here. X299 boards look kinda weird as well right now.
Because they roll out them anyway and this roll out has started way earlier than you seem to think it has. The higher core count dies existing is in no way a reaction to Ryzen. The only difference here is that they are bringing more Xeon dies down to HEDT platform this time - and we can all thank AMD for that. Well, if you're ok with paying ~$1500 for a CPU, of course.
llien
Member
While Skylake-X was expected, more than 12 cores were not.
AMD ThreadRipper with 16 cores created situation when fastest CPU in class was AMD's, so Intel "had to" respond to it.
Intell is basically bringing their server chip to desktop.
I might be misreading it, but Ryzen 1600x has the same base clock of 3.6Ghz and the same turbo clock of 4Ghz, as 7800x..
So $200 extra for CPU and another $100 for mainboard for whatever IPC advantage Intel has (Ryzen was 4-7% behind 7700k IPC I recall)
AMD ThreadRipper with 16 cores created situation when fastest CPU in class was AMD's, so Intel "had to" respond to it.
Intell is basically bringing their server chip to desktop.
I might be misreading it, but Ryzen 1600x has the same base clock of 3.6Ghz and the same turbo clock of 4Ghz, as 7800x..
So $200 extra for CPU and another $100 for mainboard for whatever IPC advantage Intel has (Ryzen was 4-7% behind 7700k IPC I recall)
So your response to my outlook post outlining possibilities how Intel could adapt beyond the current status quo boils down to describing how they are reacting using the status quo. Well, thanks but no thanks. I just don't think Intel's first reactions can be all that interesting since they are all about using what they already have to counter AMD. (A point which we both repeatedly spelled out by this point.) It's how the plan to continue in the now changed competitive landscape where it's getting really interesting, and speculating about that is what my post originally was about. Ah well. In any case it's nice to see Intel moving somewhat. Baby steps and all that.
JershJopstin
Banned
While that's true at stock, I'd still expect the 7800X to OC over the 4-4.1 GHz wall that Ryzen has so much trouble breaking. Now that the official pricing is out, the 7800X is $140 more than the 1600X and $170 more than the 1600, all for Skylake's marginal IPC advantage and whatever clock the chip ends up being stable at. While this still looks to be a much worse deal, the price is closer than expected.
Theadripper info is due in under 16 hours. Should be fun.
AMD has to be relieved. Intel didn't cut them off at the knees with more aggressive pricing on the 10+ core processors.
Zombie James
Banned
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11464...ging-18core-hcc-silicon-to-consumers-for-1999
It's out! The new prices are quite attractive.
Their 6/12 CPU is ~$170 more than AMDs cheapest and their 8/16 CPU is ~$250 more. The pricing isn't attractive at all.
I feel it's less about actual attractive pricing but "close enough" pricing to keep customers with slight Intel bias from jumping ship to similar chips by the competition. And going by some of the response it's working.
Different platforms, you're comparing Intel's HEDT platform to AMD's mainstream platform after all.
Intel's 6/12 mainstream CPU will be Coffee Lake.
digitalrelic
Banned
Thoughts on if the i7 7740X will be a nice improvement for gamers? The base clock speed at 4.3GHz is nice.
It is massive discount compared to their last years 8 core offerings, like 40% off retail price? Thanks Amd!
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It's not useless for game development.
Mihos
Gold Member
dr_rus
Member
Intel's Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X CPUs will not be soldered
Jeez, now I'm even more certain that I made a right move with going with BWE a year ago. S2066 HEDT platform is really weird right now, it will probably take a couple of years for it to become good.
If you're expecting anything more from Intel in the HEDT space until the next big update (which is unlikely to come before CLX shrink and that is end tail of 2018 at best) then you will be disappointed. Intel won't cut its margins just because AMD decided to sell a 16C monster package with two dies on it for some $1000. They'll use their IPC advantage and the market inertia to ride this one out for as long as they'll can.
Jeez, now I'm even more certain that I made a right move with going with BWE a year ago. S2066 HEDT platform is really weird right now, it will probably take a couple of years for it to become good.
If you're expecting anything more from Intel in the HEDT space until the next big update (which is unlikely to come before CLX shrink and that is end tail of 2018 at best) then you will be disappointed. Intel won't cut its margins just because AMD decided to sell a 16C monster package with two dies on it for some $1000. They'll use their IPC advantage and the market inertia to ride this one out for as long as they'll can.
See, you never took my post as what it was: an invitation to speculate whether (and if so, what) Intel plans to counter the speedy development AMD is currently rolling out in any of the possible areas. You say they won't beyond what we know now, fair enough. If that's indeed Intel's "plan" I'm looking forward to AMD disrupting them repeatedly until AMD is done rolling out their whole Zen 2 lineup on 7nm for which they apparently plan the tape out in this year already.
dr_rus
Member
Again, if you're expecting AMD to roll out Zen 2 and on 7nm to boot this year then you will be disappointed as this most certainly won't happen until second half of 2018 at the very best (simply because that's what GloFo has in plan for that node going into production state). By that time Intel will likely launch CFL up to 6C/12T, will add more KBX CPUs to HEDT (although it's a mystery to me why they even plan to do this) and will probably have CNL (10nm shrink) running in mobile segments.
Basically, don't expect AMD to outpace Intel in product launches, they don't have the financials for this. And don't expect Intel to update the HEDT more than once per year. What we have right now (or will have once we know the details on Threadripper to be precise) is likely how it will stay (with some possible price corrections of course) until 10nm/7nm products - which in case of HEDT is 2H18 at best and 1H19 more likely.
lmao. Do you even know what a tape out is? Or do you misread stuff on purpose?
dr_rus
Member
I know what a tape out is and that's why I said what I've said as you seem to think that a tape out of some chip somehow puts pressure on Intel.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
I'm a not a millionaire so won't be affording these any time soon, will it lower the price of current CPUs?
Probably not, they target different markets after all (current CPUs are part of the mainstream LGA 1511 platform while these newly announced ones are part of the high-end LGA 2066 platform).
Intel's mainstream CPUs are rumoured to get a refresh in the 2nd half of this year though, Coffee Lake architecture, Core i7 8xxx series, which will include a 6-core CPU.
While claiming I was talking about Zen 2 on 7nm roll out this year? I don't believe you. I see you keep continuing completely missing the whole point of the discussion. Congratulations, I'm out.
We will see how Intel keeps up micromanaging their whole lineup while AMD will be able to apply microarchitecture and process node updates across the lineup essentially at once after roll out of all the different platforms is completed.
dr_rus
Member
Do I really need to quote you on what you've said? Okay then:
This sounds like you're saying that AMD will be "disrupting [Intel] repeatedly" this year while "rolling out their whole Zen 2 lineup on 7nm". Which just won't happen.
With space magic?
You people seem to severely underestimate the actual complexity of the words you're throwing around. Look at how long it took AMD to build Zen1 and then apply the same time to what you're expecting from Zen2 because these "microarchitecture updates" aren't at all simpler than creating some CPU architecture from zero.
You also seem to assume that they'll continue to use the CCX strategy with Zen2 which actually makes no sense since the whole CCX strategy is a cheap way to make a whole lineup from essentially one CPU module - but the downside is the inefficiencies in both technical and economy sides of the equation. An expected way for AMD to evolve to Zen2 would be to produce a different module alongside optimizing the current one which would allow them to lessen the issues of cross CCX snooping in the most popular 8C configuration (for example) while retaining the older 4C CCX design for lower end of the market. So if AMD will use the same approach of 4C CCX for all CPUs of Zen2 lineup then they are automatically making Zen2 worse than it can be - and this would be a very strange choice as with Zen2 they will need all the additional IPC they can master as upgrading Zen1 in a meaningful way will be a whole different story compared to the insane boosts they've got with Zen compared to BD/PD/SR just out of thin air.
Your reading comprehension is really absolutely shitty.
Here, let me break it up that sentence for you:
"I'm looking forward to AMD disrupting them repeatedly..."
Self explaining. I expect AMD to repeatedly disrupt Intel. AMD already changed how Intel approaches the HEDT market, not only using their LCC die but for the first time ever also announcing the use of the HCC die for HEDT just to match/exceed what Threadripper bring to the table. Intel has not yet reacted to the treat that is Epyc.
"...until AMD is done rolling out their whole Zen 2 lineup on 7nm..."
Timescale until when I expect AMD to keep disrupting Intel. As part of its CPU roadmap AMD already announced Zen+ and Zen 2, the latter of which will be on 7nm according to the map. That came as a surprise as AMD is not done yet with the current roll out during which they are establishing new platforms, only desktop AM4 being done while Ryzen Mobile/mobile AM4 and APUs in general along it, Threadripper/TR4 and Epyc/SP3 platforms are coming in the coming months. The time needed is not so much for the chips themselves (which mostly rely on the same die) but building the ecosystem of the platforms that naturally are not there yet.
"...for which they apparently plan the tape out in this year already."
This was the second surprise when AMD CEO Su mentioned that they plan to tape out 7nm Zen 2 this year already, as the above mentioned CPU roadmap didn't come with a timescale and it seemed Zen 2 and 7nm would be farther off. The tape out of the current Zen core was in early 2016, so with that precedence a successful 7nm Zen 2 core later this year would have use see respective updates rolling out late next year. So their CPU roadmap covers quite a lot of action in rather little time.
Of course from the ground up new designs (like Zen is) take much longer than incremental updates (like Zen + and Zen 2 are). AMD has been working on yearly refreshes for years now, AMD also has been working on modularizing all their IPs since the start of Bulldozer. The difference now is that Zen is actually competitive.
And here I think you are way off.
AMD's interest is not replicating Intel style micromanagment hell with over a dozen or so dies of different microarchitecture generations (they by far don't have the financial and man power for such redundant work), their interest is combining the high yield of small flexible but optimized modules with the capability to scale that across the full spectrum of their lineup. That's what they are currently building several platforms and their ecosystems for. And keeping all designs modularized allows them to refresh products across the lineup as soon as updates to the microarchitecture reach satisfying yields.
It's true that Zen is faced with design shortcomings regarding inter-CCX and likely also bigger NUMA (in Treadripper and Epyc) latency. But that's a tradeoff that both unavoidable (Intel's HCC and XCC dies with dual ring buses also fall prey to the same issue) and mostly negligible (datacenters worked with and optimized for NUMA for ages, and in the case of Ryzen DDR4 3200Mhz at low latency is able to mask most of the issue). That one tradeoff allows modularization that awards AMD the agility we see now despite it being way smaller than 1/10 the size and ever far lower the financial capability than Intel.
dr_rus
Member
Or maybe it's your writing skills which are shitty here.
Repeatedly disrupt Intel _with what_? Look at the R5/R7 range which is pretty much done now - how much of disruption is going on there at the moment? You're confusing your dreams of continuing disruption with a simple fact of launching Ryzen products in different market segments - which is a one time thing basically. The only thing changed in Intel's new HEDT platform is the addition of three CPUs on top of it in $1500-2000+ range - which is basically an extension of the platform to a more expensive market. This is why I repeat again and again that none of this matters if you're unwilling to spend $2000 on your CPU. For a person who's buying CPUs for ~$500 nothing has been "disrupted" or changed so far, there's only another viable option in form of Ryzen products.
What came as a surprise? That they will use Ryzen for all market segments and are not done with just R5 and R7? This "surprise" was known for some years now to those who paid attention.
Also note that your expectation of them disrupting Intel until they are done launching Zen2 lineup makes zero sense as this is like saying that you're expecting Intel to not do anything proactively with its CPU lineup until ~2H19.
Early 2016 -> Early 2017 - one year.
Late 2017 -> Late 2018 - one year.
What is so surprising about Zen2 taping out now if it's on 7nm and that process is officially expected to be ready in late 2018?
Also, as I've said, Zen2 has precisely zero to do with what we have on the market right now as by the time AMD will start it's rollout Intel will have a completely different market lineup in all segments. No idea why you keep mentioning Zen2 as if it means anything for what Intel is launching right now.
It's not. Providing meaningful architecture updates is just as hard if not even harder than building the architecture from scratch. Of course if Zen2 will be nothing more than Zen1 on 7nm then sure, it's simpler.
Well, we'll see. But this is an expected and low hanging improvement for Zen2 IPC-wise. If AMD will pass on it then they are automatically making Zen2 worse than it can be.
We also still need to see how much of an impact Intel's dual ring bus will have on actual performance. Saying that their >12 cores have the same NUMA issue is quite a bit of a stretch right now. Also note that AMD have this issue in all Ryzen CPUs starting with 6C, Intel - only in HCC dies which is 14C+.