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[akira28]

Pedophiles aren't sex, or ethnicity, or even a sexual orientation. It's a pathology. They aren't two men who seek each other out for mutual relationships. They're hunters who stalk and prey upon young people. So it can't be compared and it cannot be defended along those lines. You can defend them via compassion and understanding. But not via equality and parity, you just can't make that link.

 

[okdakor]

Society evolves, yes. But all your examples are righteous ones... and it's good, it means that every big steps we make as a society is *good*, in the right way.
But there is no debate about wanting, or even thinking to hurt a child. If one day the question is even raised - should we considerate pedophilia as just another taboo ? - it won't be positive for us, as a society. It would mean that we're declining.
Pedophilia isn't an eventual step. It's not a fight worth fighting for, find other real intolerances to defend.

 

[bengraven]

@bengraven: I´m not trying to bait anyone and I´m not fighting for pedophiles to be able to live out their fantasies, because that´s impossible. If you have to say something, PM me, because I find it insulting how you keep hitting on me, and derailing interesting discussions that way. I will reply to your PM, so if you´re interested in a private debate, do so, I won´t turn you away.

I'm not the only one who has been calling you out. You've been getting a reputation on this board and people are genuinely curious as to what you're about.

As for PMs, we had a PM discussion last week or the week before and you never finished your case.

I'm also not hitting "on" you, is English your first language? Not bullying, this is a serious question, because I wonder if some of the misconceptions we are hypothetically getting are due to the language barrier.

 

[duckroll]

Sennorin, I am very concerned and disturbed by your opinions. I mean, how do you feel about these guys for example?

 

[bengraven]

Sennorin, I am very concerned and disturbed by your opinions. I mean, how do you feel about these guys for example?

Man, and I've been holding back on my NAMBLA jokes, too.

Creepy, I didn't know this organization existed.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

LA Noire told me this was true.

 

[Sennorin]

Sennorin, I am very concerned and disturbed by your opinions. I mean, how do you feel about these guys for example?

How I feel about them? Fuck them. But I feel sad that you read my postings and felt the need to ask me that

 

[tiff]

Pedophiles aren't sex, or ethnicity, or even a sexual orientation. It's a pathology. They aren't two men who seek each other out for mutual relationships. They're hunters who stalk and prey upon young people. So it can't be compared and it cannot be defended along those lines. You can defend them via compassion and understanding. But not via equality and parity, you just can't make that link.

Yeah, really. Pedophilia is defined by their desire or fantasize over something which is harmful to children. You can't say anything like that for blacks. Or women. Or homosexuals.

If you want to compare them with something, pick something that acknowledges the harmful nature pedophilia can manifest.

Sennorin, I am very concerned and disturbed by your opinions. I mean, how do you feel about these guys for example?

Man, even outside of AoC and pornography ideas they were a riot. Opening up the polls to 12 year-olds? Really?

 

[bengraven]

How I feel about them? Fuck them. But I feel sad that you read my postings and felt the need to ask me that

I wish we had post history so you could look back at your own history and SEE why he would form that opinion.

 

[duckroll]

How I feel about them? Fuck them. But I feel sad that you read my postings and felt the need to ask me that

You were preaching for tolerance and acceptance of pedophiles. I think these guys want the same thing, except they want it legalized too!

 

[Sennorin]

You were preaching for tolerance and acceptance of pedophiles. I think these guys want the same thing, except they want it legalized too!

They want to legalize child porn and lower the AoC to 12. That´s not what I was saying when I said I wanted tolerance and acceptance. Acceptance of what they are, not what they want.

 

[jonezer4]

Oh snap, is he inferring that MJ molested him?

No. You're inferring it. Corey would be implying it.

 

[plagiarize]

Pedophiles aren't sex, or ethnicity, or even a sexual orientation. It's a pathology. They aren't two men who seek each other out for mutual relationships. They're hunters who stalk and prey upon young people. So it can't be compared and it cannot be defended along those lines. You can defend them via compassion and understanding. But not via equality and parity, you just can't make that link.

see, but this is why i find myself siding with sennorin, even if i wouldn't go quite as far as he seems to (though he absolutely didn't say pedophiles were the same as blacks or homosexuals, just that he'd defend them too if they were still being oppressed on the same level).

he might believe that, but that's not what he said.

pedophiles AREN'T hunters who stalk and prey upon young people. some absolutely are, but that stereotype isn't helpful to anyone, and it needs to go away. pedophiles are people who want to have sex with children.

just the same as whether you are gay or not has nothing to do with whether you've ever had any kind of relationship with someone of the same sex. it represents a desire, not an act.

child molesters, child predators, those are the groups that stalk and prey.

lumping them all together is like (though not exactly the same!) how homosexuals used to be lumped in with the pedophiles.

i think even if it is a sexual orientation that we can classify it as a disease, because it is a desire to do something that we *know* is harmful. i think it can be both. i'm not sure that it is, but i know that it is indeed a disease.

i don't think it's curable in the same way i don't think homosexuality is 'curable', but i do believe that there are many people secretly harbouring these desires, and that less children would be molested if those people didn't feel so stigmatised and could search for help.

that's why seeing statements like 'pedophiles are hunters who stalk and prey on children' gets my ire up. because that creates the climate wherein these people deny and surpress, and we all know that actions like that tend to exaserbate the problem.

 

[Twilight Princess]

i have pedophobia. i can maybe stand them if they're really really cute and completely silent.

 

[duckroll]

They want to legalize child porn and lower the AoC to 12. That´s not what I was saying when I said I wanted tolerance and acceptance. Acceptance of what they are, not what they want.

This doesn't make a lot of sense. If you refuse to tolerate and accept what defines a person as a pedophile, then you are not tolerating and accepting pedophilia. That is normal. There is a very good reason why it is not tolerated and accepted, because it is wrong.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Pedobear might be the biggest problem in Hollywood, but Steroids and HGH are the dirty little secret.

 

[plagiarize]

This doesn't make a lot of sense. If you refuse to tolerate and accept what defines a person as a pedophile, then you are not tolerating and accepting pedophilia. That is normal. There is a very good reason why it is not tolerated and accepted, because it is wrong.

laws shouldn't be based on morality, but whether or not they are better for society. we know having sex with prepubescents harms them, hence it is illegal. if it didn't harm them, whether or not we like it or think it wrong wouldn't come into things, and it would be legal just as it's legal to be homosexual.

child pornography shouldn't be legalised because children are harmed in the creation of making it, not because it disgusts us that people want to watch it.

pedophiles and us have different opinions of right and wrong, and i don't hate them for that. but molesting a child unquestionably causes HARM, and any of them that give in to their urges i can hate.

if they recognise that what they want to do is harmful, and don't do it, i think refusing to tolerate someone like that is being blind of the bigger picture. people that want to harm children exist and we can't make them go away. the goal is to ensure that as few of them as possible molest children.

as things are, you can only really discover who is a pedophile when they give in to those urges. the point at which we can try and help them is generally the point at which it's too late, and a minor has already been severly damaged by their actions.

'burn them all' only creates a climate where in by the time we know about them, it's too late.

 

[MetalAlien]

This is one of those things that horrifies people so much even if some scientist came out with absolute proof that it was a built in preference as natural as heterosexuality, he would be burned at the stake and he evidence destroyed.

It's too emotionally sensitive to ever be discussed rationally.

My opinion? I think if you took a poll of the proper age of consent across all generations of humanity, all the way back to the first humans. I think the age would be somewhere close to 12ish, maybe 14ish. Somewhere around were they first start puberty until you get close to modern times where the age was pushed much higher.

Give it time and I bet it gets pushed to 21 as people get consumed by their own fear.

 

[plagiarize]

This is one of those things that horrifies people so much even if some scientist came out with absolute proof that it was a built in preference as natural as heterosexuality, he would be burned at the stake and he evidence destroyed.

It's too emotional sensitive to ever be discussed rationally.

My opinion? I think if you took a poll of the proper age of consent across all generations of humanity, all the way back to the first humans. I think the age would be somewhere close to 12ish, maybe 14ish. Somewhere around were they first start puberty until you get close to modern times where the age was pushed much higher.

Give it time and I bet it gets pushed to 21 as people get consumed by their own fear.

i think it's pretty obvious that the age would be mid puberty at the earliest, once the visual stages of maturation have taken place. onset of puberty is not a normal time to want to sex something.

for very obvious reasons.

 

[Delio]

This is one of those things that horrifies people so much even if some scientist came out with absolute proof that it was a built in preference as natural as heterosexuality, he would be burned at the stake and he evidence destroyed.

It's too emotionally sensitive to ever be discussed rationally.

My opinion? I think if you took a poll of the proper age of consent across all generations of humanity, all the way back to the first humans. I think the age would be somewhere close to 12ish, maybe 14ish. Somewhere around were they first start puberty until you get close to modern times where the age was pushed much higher.

Give it time and I bet it gets pushed to 21 as people get consumed by their own fear.

I think at most it would be at 15. Some people seem scared to even like young looking 18 year olds :/. 21 might be pushed at some point.

 

[MetalAlien]

i think it's pretty obvious that the age would be mid puberty at the earliest, once the visual stages of maturation have taken place. onset of puberty is not a normal time to want to sex something.

for very obvious reasons.

I don't think it's obvious at all and probably wishful thinking but who the hell am I?

 

[Sennorin]

This doesn't make a lot of sense. If you refuse to tolerate and accept what defines a person as a pedophile, then you are not tolerating and accepting pedophilia. That is normal. There is a very good reason why it is not tolerated and accepted, because it is wrong.

I can accept that someone is different, but I don´t have to accept this person´s actions. Do you really think that is an impossible stance to have? This is the whole fantasies vs. real action-debate that we had earlier on. As long as someone keeps his desires in his fantasy, it´s okay. That´s what we should accept, that some people have different fantasies than ourselves. We should, however, never accept these fantasies to be acted out in reality, where they´re simply impossible to accept.

And plagiarize continues to make great postings. Agreed on all fronts.

 

[duckroll]

if they recognise that what they want to do is harmful, and don't do it, i think refusing to tolerate someone like that is being blind of the bigger picture. people that want to harm children exist and we can't make them go away. the goal is to ensure that as few of them as possible molest children.

as things are, you can only really discover who is a pedophile when they give in to those urges. the point at which we can try and help them is generally the point at which it's too late, and a minor has already been severly damaged by their actions.

'burn them all' only creates a climate where in by the time we know about them, it's too late.

I think there is a problem with this theory. Do I think that if someone admits to being a pedophile we should tie him up and burn him? Not at all. But should someone who admits to being a pedophile be allowed to work with children, or be allowed in positions of employment or social service which puts them in prolonged close contact with children? I do not believe they should be.

Here's the problem. If you are a pedophile, you have an urge to want to be in romantic and/or sexual relationships with children. You might not be a predator, a violent abuser, or even a rapist in a common sense. You could be a totally normal guy, nice and friendly, etc. But you have a -problem-. If you are a social worker, and one day you are put in a position where a child you fancy happens to return those feelings, any relationship you have with the child is a crime and is wrong because it would be taking advantage of your position as an adult.

This is not the classical bullshit about how a gay man working in an all male environment might be unable to control his urges and rape someone. That is bullshit because clearly being homosexual does not make you a rapist. If a gay man gets in a relationship with another gay man, that is between them, and as long as they are consenting adults, it's their choice. With a pedophile, it doesn't matter if it is rape-rape or not-rape-rape or whatever. The moment a pedophile begins to act on their impulse in ANY way, it is unacceptable. It seems everyone here also agrees that it should NOT be made acceptable.

So with that in mind, being a pedophile will always be a stigma. It is a problem. It is not socially or legally accepted, and will never be. Admitting you are a pedophile will mean that you automatically lose certain rights. That's just how it is. We don't have to hate someone just because he has such a problem, but there will always be a distance between them and normal people. That stigma cannot be removed because there is a constant danger to our children. It is not intolerance, it is reality.

 

[plagiarize]

raising the age of consent to 21 would allow 20 year olds to have sex with 13 year olds the way the laws are currently written in some states.

so it won't happen.

and anyway, there are zero signs that we aren't continuing to make 15 year olds into sex symbols. it just seems that the more we do that, the more we fear child rapists. which makes sense in a very perverse way, but isn't what i'd call 'logical'.

 

[MetalAlien]

raising the age of consent to 21 would allow 20 year olds to have sex with 13 year olds the way the laws are currently written in some states.

so it won't happen.

Don't give them any ideas. They might make sex between people who are both underage a crime.

 

[duckroll]

I can accept that someone is different, but I don´t have to accept this person´s actions. Do you really think that is an impossible stance to have? This is the whole fantasies vs. real action-debate that we had earlier on. As long as someone keeps his desires in his fantasy, it´s okay. That´s what we should accept, that some people have different fantasies than ourselves. We should, however, never accept these fantasies to be acted out in reality, where they´re simply impossible to accept.

And plagiarize continues to make great postings. Agreed on all fronts.

Your talk of acceptance seems very hollow. It sounds more like you're talking about ignoring them, rather than accepting them. This is a very important distinction to make. To me, accepting means embracing. It means that even if I do not agree or share that opinion or taste, I welcome it when shared in a conversation, and I do not shy away or shun the subject when it is brought up. If a gay friend were to talk to me about a hot date he had, I'm willing to listen and even discuss it, even though I may not have the same sexual orientation. If a transgender friend shares an experience with me, I can talk about it even though I do not really understand or relate to it on a personal level.

If someone were to start talking to me about some pedo fantasy they have, I tell them to GET HELP. It is not just that I do not share that interest, it is a turn off and it offends me. If someone were to talk to me about how he had fantasies about killing someone, or dissecting small animals, I would also tell them to GET HELP. I would not feel comfortable talking to a pedophile about pedophilia. Sure, a pedophile could be talking about other topics which do not involve pedophilia or anything related to it, and I could probably have a fine conversation with the person. But that's not really acceptance.

 

[plagiarize]

I think there is a problem with this theory. Do I think that if someone admits to being a pedophile we should tie him up and burn him? Not at all. But should someone who admits to being a pedophile be allowed to work with children, or be allowed in positions of employment or social service which puts them in prolonged close contact with children? I do not believe they should be.

nor do it. and i think that's a win for everyone, the pedophile included.

Here's the problem. If you are a pedophile, you have an urge to want to be in romantic and/or sexual relationships with children. You might not be a predator, a violent abuser, or even a rapist in a common sense. You could be a totally normal guy, nice and friendly, etc. But you have a -problem-. If you are a social worker, and one day you are put in a position where a child you fancy happens to return those feelings, any relationship you have with the child is a crime and is wrong because it would be taking advantage of your position as an adult.

first of all, i hate the whole 'rape rape' thing. it's all rape, legally speaking. we can argue specific cases shouldn't be classed as rape, like say, a 15 year old and a 16 year old in a state that doesn't allow it, but that just mudies the waters. that that shouldn't be classed as rape doesn't mean that we need a term like rape rape.

if someone has those urges in this climate, they will deny them, to themself, and may end up in a position whereby they have some authority over a child. no one wants to admit they are what society paints as a monster, and i think ironically that pushes some people closer to becoming monsters.

This is not the classical bullshit about how a gay man working in an all male environment might be unable to control his urges and rape someone. That is bullshit because clearly being homosexual does not make you a rapist. If a gay man gets in a relationship with another gay man, that is between them, and as long as they are consenting adults, it's their choice. With a pedophile, it doesn't matter if it is rape-rape or not-rape-rape or whatever. The moment a pedophile begins to act on their impulse in ANY way, it is unacceptable. It seems everyone here also agrees that it should NOT be made acceptable.

because it causes harm to children. there's no debate about that. we know it to be true. it isn't a question of morality.

but i think a similar distinction exists amongst pedophiles. i think there are pedophiles who are sexually attracted to children in the same way that gay people are attracted to the same sex. obviously one is a healthy urge and one isn't, but i think the same kind of desires exist.

we know there are pedophiles who want to rape children, because it makes them feel powerful, because they like the thought of corrupting an innocent and screwing them up for life.

those two groups aren't equivalent, but again, most people won't ever make that distinction because they don't want to be see as condoning pedophilia.

both are a problem, and anyone with those desires needs help, but they aren't equivalent problems, and unless you don't believe the first group exist, suggesting that they would rape a child is similar to suggesting the gay man would rape someone. not equivalent, because it's easier to convince or dupe a child into sex than it is a grown adult, and some pedophiles use the fact they weren't physically violent to condone their horrible behaviour, but i hope you see what i'm trying to say here.

So with that in mind, being a pedophile will always be a stigma. It is a problem. It is not socially or legally accepted, and will never be. Admitting you are a pedophile will mean that you automatically lose certain rights. That's just how it is. We don't have to hate someone just because he has such a problem, but there will always be a distance between them and normal people. That stigma cannot be removed because there is a constant danger to our children. It is not intolerance, it is reality.

the loss of rights doesn't need to be something negative though. people with certain mental disabilities or diseases lose rights too, but it's as much for their own good as it is for other peoples.

we can help them, and we should, because helping a pedophile resist their urges is good for everyone.

Don't give them any ideas. They might make sex between people who are both underage a crime.

in some states it is, if the age difference is beyond a certain number of years, but that can go both ways. in some of those states you have to be at least two years older than someone below the age of consent to be guilty of anything.

so a seventeen year old can legally have sex with a fifteen year old, but a sixteen year old can't have sex with a thirteen year old.

it's still flawed, but it makes more sense than drawing a hard line accross at any age.

 

[okdakor]

That´s what we should accept, that some people have different fantasies than ourselves. We should, however, never accept these fantasies to be acted out in reality, where they´re simply impossible to accept.

All fantasies can be acted out in real life, between consenting people. And you can defend people fantasizing about amputated midgets. A child cannot consent to have sex. When you masturbate thinking about a child or thinking of raping someone, it's not a fantasy, fantasy isn't about hurting others.

 

[Ducarmel]

Don't give them any ideas. They might make sex between people who are both underage a crime.

I remember a news story of a 13 girl in Utah being charged with rape of an 12 year old boy, and by law she is considered a victim of underage sex at the same time.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4783650

 

[duckroll]

first of all, i hate the whole 'rape rape' thing. it's all rape, legally speaking. we can argue specific cases shouldn't be classed as rape, like say, a 15 year old and a 16 year old in a state that doesn't allow it, but that just mudies the waters. that that shouldn't be classed as rape doesn't mean that we need a term like rape rape.

I hate it too, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't matter regardless of whether anyone subscribes to that belief or not, because in this case it's all bad.

but i think a similar distinction exists amongst pedophiles. i think there are pedophiles who are sexually attracted to children in the same way that gay people are attracted to the same sex. obviously one is a healthy urge and one isn't, but i think the same kind of desires exist.

we know there are pedophiles who want to rape children, because it makes them feel powerful, because they like the thought of corrupting an innocent and screwing them up for life.

those two groups aren't equivalent, but again, most people won't ever make that distinction because they don't want to be see as condoning pedophilia.

I do make that distinction, and I think that there are portions of society which do as well. But what I feel is that it should not be paraded as "tolerance" or "acceptance" for pedophiles. Instead it is simply common sense - this class of people have a problem, but there is a clear difference between those who have committed a crime because of this problem, and those who haven't.

both are a problem, and anyone with those desires needs help, but they aren't equivalent problems, and unless you don't believe the first group exist, suggesting that they would rape a child is similar to suggesting the gay man would rape someone. not equivalent, because it's easier to convince or dupe a child into sex than it is a grown adult, and some pedophiles use the fact they weren't physically violent to condone their horrible behaviour, but i hope you see what i'm trying to say here.


the loss of rights doesn't need to be something negative though. people with certain mental disabilities or diseases lose rights too, but it's as much for their own good as it is for other peoples.

we can help them, and we should, because helping a pedophile resist their urges is good for everyone.

I don't disagree about this at all. I don't have a problem with society trying to help people who acknowledge they have a problem and seek help for it. I'm simply saying that we need to be realistic about this. Pedophiles have a problem, and they will face a social stigma. If they understand that, and know that they have a problem which can cause significant societal problems if acted upon, and they are willing to face the stigma while continuing to exist in society and contribute to society in as normal a way as they can while seeking help, then that's win-win.

My main point is that we should not throw around some pretense that we should be more accepting towards pedophilia and more tolerating, etc. We should not. Pedophilia is not a good thing, and it is a bad problem. That doesn't mean we should be intolerant to a person seeking help. But it doesn't matter if that person is a pedophile, or someone with an anger issue, or someone who has violent tendencies and urges to cause harm. In all those cases, the actual problem is not tolerated, which is why it is being treated.

There is no need to pretend that there is some special human rights problem that pedophiles are suffering from. That only makes it harder for anyone to ever see the actual point - which is just to be humane to a fellow human being.

 

[MetalAlien]

I remember a news story of a 13 girl in Utah being charged with rape of an 12 year old boy, and by law she is considered a victim of underage sex at the same time.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4783650

Stuff like this is why Aliens will never visit earth.

 

[duckroll]

Stuff like this is why Aliens will never visit earth.

Or it is a sign that they already visited, and have taken over the justice system in some countries and states!

 

[MetalAlien]

Or it is a sign that they already visited, and have taken over the justice system in some countries and states!

Nah Aliens are total pedos!

 

[Spokker]

Sennorin is definitely posting on hard mode and I admire his moxie. If he's genuine about his arguments, though, and isn't just playing devil's advocate, I would recommend he seek psychiatric help if he isn't already. If he isn't willing then I would hope that, at the very least, he does not confide to others about these things under his real name and/or in real life. It would make maintaining friends and work more difficult.

But if he is just playing devil's advocate, it's quite an interesting discussion nonetheless.

 

[plagiarize]

My main point is that we should not throw around some pretense that we should be more accepting towards pedophilia and more tolerating, etc. We should not. Pedophilia is not a good thing, and it is a bad problem. That doesn't mean we should be intolerant to a person seeking help. But it doesn't matter if that person is a pedophile, or someone with an anger issue, or someone who has violent tendencies and urges to cause harm. In all those cases, the actual problem is not tolerated, which is why it is being treated.

There is no need to pretend that there is some special human rights problem that pedophiles are suffering from. That only makes it harder for anyone to ever see the actual point - which is just to be humane to a fellow human being.

well as i've said in this thread, i think being more humane to the ones that don't commit crimes would make it easier for people to admit that they have this problem and to get help. i think society would win from that... but i'm not foolish enough to think it's going to be easy. i'm optimistic enough to believe it's possible though, however remote the chances are.

seeing stuff like Australia treat animated child porn equivalently with actual child porn where a minor was molested to create it is exactly the sort of thing i don't want to see happening, and i honestly believe it is just going to make things worse if things like that continue happening.

many people seem to treat pedophiles that haven't committed crimes, worse than convicted criminals. if we can be humane to an ex con, i think we can be humane to pedophiles that haven't committed any crimes, though recognising that both need help in order to prevent them committing criminal acts.

 

[Sennorin]

Your talk of acceptance seems very hollow. It sounds more like you're talking about ignoring them, rather than accepting them. This is a very important distinction to make. To me, accepting means embracing. It means that even if I do not agree or share that opinion or taste, I welcome it when shared in a conversation, and I do not shy away or shun the subject when it is brought up. If a gay friend were to talk to me about a hot date he had, I'm willing to listen and even discuss it, even though I may not have the same sexual orientation. If a transgender friend shares an experience with me, I can talk about it even though I do not really understand or relate to it on a personal level.

If someone were to start talking to me about some pedo fantasy they have, I tell them to GET HELP. It is not just that I do not share that interest, it is a turn off and it offends me. If someone were to talk to me about how he had fantasies about killing someone, or dissecting small animals, I would also tell them to GET HELP. I would not feel comfortable talking to a pedophile about pedophilia. Sure, a pedophile could be talking about other topics which do not involve pedophilia or anything related to it, and I could probably have a fine conversation with the person. But that's not really acceptance.

Hm, I don´t really understand why you cannot see the distinction between fantasies and real actions. Accepting someone´s attractions as part of his fantasy bears no problem imo. When a gay friend talks to you about a hot date, it is talk about a real action. When a pedophile friend talks to you about his fantasy, it is exactly that. I cannot say how I would react if I had a pedophile friend who told me about one of his fantasies. Because I know if it was a stranger, then I wouldn´t want to hear about his heterosexual or gay fantasies either (well, maybe the former if he´s a porn director). But if it was a very good, close friend? I guess I would react the same way which I would react to any fantasy that wasn´t part of my desire: Nice for you, but I don´t really need to hear about it.

It seems that is really the whole point of argument here, that some of you compare the fantasies of pedophiles to the real actions of other kinds of people. But that is also where I fail to see the problem, because imo all fantasies are okay. Of course, not the kind of obsessive fantasies, but normal, temporary fantasies. If a pedophile constantly has sex with children on his mind, that surely would be a problem. But what if he fantasizes about it once a day during masturbation? Shouldn´t be our problem.

So that´s how I see it. Accept their mind, don´t accept their actions. I think that´s a good, not a hollow, stance to make. But, of course, can I see that it is a difficult one to make when talking about such a loaded topic.

And @okdakur:

When you masturbate thinking about a child or thinking of raping someone, it's not a fantasy, fantasy isn't about hurting others.

There is no restriction to what fantasies are. Per definitionem. Anything goes in one´s fantasy.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I've been just kind of sitting back reading the responses that have been flowing in.

There's one thing that most seem to be glossing over. Most pederasts, pedophiles, or pedosexuals (whatever they're wanting to call themselves this week) cross a mental threshold that once crossed, can lead to nothing but pain and suffering for all involved.

Once they begin to think a child is coming on to them, there's no hope for them. At that point it literally is only a matter of time before they act on their predilection. Because they cease seeing themselves as the instigators. The blame falls on those that are victimized.

Sennorin, I mean this from the bottom of my heart man I honestly do. You have some very disturbing ideas about pedophilia. There's a strong level of disconnect going on there, and you really need to find out why it's there. I'm not saying anything about your orientation, you could have a very happy sex life with many willing adult partners for all I know.

But you are separating two parts of a whole. There's no separating the person from the attraction. It becomes a part of who they are. And it scares me that you can be that cavalier about it.