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[R_thanatos]

Well , i don't play overwatch , nor battle born nor any of the others .. ( but there was a time when i was playing CS non stop ) so lawbreakers was almost a game for me , since i have fond memories of unreal tournament and quake 2 & 3.

But i didn't get this game because i guess the word of mouth didn't work inside my circle of friends ... despite our tastes and the fact that most of us have plenty of experience with shooters , lawbreakers was missing that feelign , that special sauce , that special key point that i can't put into words that made us intrested.

Too bad for the game as it seems like it's great but yeah , the market of shooters is quite saturated right now.
If you want shooters , you had plenty of choices before lawbreakers and the choices were already answering a big part of the market quite a difficult challenge to steal those players for you

 

[yukimeans_snow]

I don't get this video. They delivered a game that was a bit close to others, and the game tanked. People worked on this and poured some hard work and heart into it. There's no point dissing a perfectly fine game for selling badly. I don't see any real controversies in what Cliffy or the others are saying either.

You said you don't get the video, and then unintentionally explained the point of the video, hahaha. Good job

 

[Budi]

Well , i don't play overwatch , nor battle born nor any of the others .. ( but there was a time when i was playing CS non stop ) so lawbreakers was almost a game for me , since i have fond memories of unreal tournament and quake 2 & 3.

But i didn't get this game because i guess the word of mouth didn't work inside my circle of friends ... despite our tastes and the fact that most of us have plenty of experience with shooters , lawbreakers was missing that feelign , that special sauce , that special key point that i can't put into words that made us intrested.

Too bad for the game as it seems like it's great but yeah , the market of shooters is quite saturated right now.
If you want shooters , you had plenty of choices before lawbreakers and the choices were already answering a big part of the market quite a difficult challenge to steal those players for you

Yeah, pretty much all of my friends have either CS:GO, Overwatch or both. Some play regurlary some don't. I was a huge fan of 1.6 and it's earlier iterations. But I played those religiously back in the day so that's not what I'm looking for anymore quite frankly and Lawbreakers brought me back to the more Quake/Tribes style shooters. And all LB needs to do is carve it's own niche. It doesn't need to be a success like OW, CS or even R6. But currently it hasn't really found proper niche either. Still keeping my fingers crossed, hopefully the positive word of mouth and reviews will make people give it another try when free weekend hits in the future.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

Granted, I don't know much about DQ11 so maybe I should have refrained from taking on that comparison. And no it's not okay.

However the argument can be made that you're at least separating the art from the artist there because you just really like DQ. And there is an entire team of people working there and as shitty as it is that they haven't replaced the composer, at least you're not only supporting the racist shitbag.

For here it's a single person on the channel and supporting him is kinda scummy. The video in the OP isn't racist but most of Jontron's videos don't seem racist either, that doesn't mean it doesn't matter and we should make him even more popular.


Yes again, that isn't saying anyone who enjoys his content is a white supremacist. That just means people don't want to give him a click because he's racist.

That's an arbitrary line trying to separate works created by one person as opposed to many. It's kind of weak and not very principled.

The difference between Jontron and crowbcat are worlds apart. Jontron has done an interview, made tweets, reposted tweets with racist opinions. Crowbcat used one controversial joke according to people complaining about him. How does that make him similar to Jontron or any other racist? If you want to be prejudice against youtube creators, that's fine. There has been a lot of milkshake ducks. You don't have to watch his videos. If you're going to call him a racist then you need more than a joke.

 

[Neuro]

He should have just stuck to the phrase chainsodomy and gears...now he just has to sit and wait for things to turn rosy once more...

 

[NullPointer]

Ouch.

Game looks great though. And looks like its offering something very different from Overwatch (and other hero shooters). The video seems negative in tone, but when it comes to actual gameplay and price it looks damn good.

If Cliffy is truly OK with playing the long game things could look up down the line. He's already looked at Warframe as an example (that only now in year four has people who haven't been playing the whole time finally noticing) and Rainbow Six Siege, which proved that if you keep building off of a solid foundation that offers people something new, the audience will find it.

 

[the_big_country]

It's doing dreadful in players yet everyone I hear who plays it says it's amazing.

What is the reason for this? If the game was great you'd think word of mouth alone would get more people to play the game. Are people just assuming it will go F2P down the road and are waiting for that or are people really not buying it to spite CliffyB?

The market for arena shooters today is pretty small, and pretty vocal. LB hasn't found success for a number of reasons: it's hard to pick up, worries about player count (lower than 7-8 year old CoDs on PC), and LB becoming a meme.

 

[Psychoward]

That's an arbitrary line trying to separate works created by one person as opposed to many. It's kind of weak and not very principled.

The difference between Jontron and crowbcat are worlds apart. Jontron has done an interview, made tweets, reposted tweets with racist opinions. Crowbcat used one controversial joke according to people complaining about him. How does that make him similar to Jontron or any other racist? If you want to be prejudice against youtube creators, that's fine. There has been a lot of milkshake ducks. You don't have to watch his videos. If you're going to call him a racist then you need more than a joke.

It's more than a "joke", it's a racist joke from a racist video from a racist board where the punchline is basically "black people talk funny and aren't smart". It's not as bad as jontron but he also hasn't apologized or distanced himself in any way from his "joke"

I'm not biased against YouTube creators but feel free to think that I suppose.

 

[gafneo]

Looks like it could be fun. I'd prefer the gore to look more extreme. It's kind of a neat thing to have in death match games. I think Cliff should team up with Nether Realm if they want to make the kills and death count. The art is definetly the thing making players iffy aside from the gameplay. Unreal Tournament looked very similar to Quake where Law Break looks more like Cod Advance Infinite Warefare.

 

[Offline]

Is there any particular reason why he didn't want to launch on Xbox as well considering that playerbase is pretty shooter-friendly? This video hurts because the game actually looks good and I understand it's angle but I'm just not a fps guy, if I was I'd play this though. It feels like a case of too little too late but more just too late. I wish Cliff could merge the energy from this game and the instence gameplay with a third person action game although it's probably a huge task, I just feel that genre of game will never really be over saturated.

 

[R_thanatos]

Ouch.

Game looks great though. And looks like its offering something very different from Overwatch (and other hero shooters). The video seems negative in tone, but when it comes to actual gameplay and price it looks damn good.

If Cliffy is truly OK with playing the long game things could look up down the line. He's already looked at Warframe as an example (that only now in year four has people who haven't been playing the whole time finally noticing) and Rainbow Six Siege, which proved that if you keep building off of a solid foundation that offers people something new, the audience will find it.

I don't see the video as negative in tone. i actually think that aside from the last 40 secs it was really positive.

 

[eizarus]

People with high MMR have complained not getting matches fast. For others it's been surprisingly really good. Even on PC when there's just hundreds of people playing I've found a match always about in 10 seconds. Ofcourse I can't guarantee that this will always be like this. Though if more people just pick the game up and jump in without worrying too much, it can only get better. If they removed the skill based matchmaking that would alleviate the troubles for most skilled players . But they have stated that they tried it earlier and only the top shooters were really having fun, while others got stomped. So this makes the game more enjoyable for wider variety of skill levels.

Hmmmmm so you're saying it's gonna be fun if I play shit. Sounds good!

But what the hell, it's only £25. I'll give it a shot and see how it is

 

[Rymuth]

Is there any particular reason why he didn't want to launch on Xbox as well considering that playerbase is pretty shooter-friendly? This video hurts because the game actually looks good and I understand it's angle but I'm just not a fps guy, if I was I'd play this though. It feels like a case of too little too late but more just too late. I wish Cliff could merge the energy from this game and the instence gameplay with a third person action game although it's probably a huge task, I just feel that genre of game will never really be over saturated.

There is but im not sure if you wanna hear it ~ it's vintage CliffyB: it's worded in an offensive manner

 

[mullet2000]

Comparing this game to Overwatch seems not only lazy but incorrect.

I've played about 7 hours of Lawbreakers and 150ish of Overwatch and they play nothing alike at all. Overwatch is slow and very team composition focused. Lawbreakers is fast and places a ton of emphasis on individual skill.

I don't get the compassion other than "you have characters with abilities and your shoot stuff". If these games are the same then virtually any two shooters of the last decade can be pointed to and called "the same."

 

[NullPointer]

I don't see the video as negative in tone. i actually think that aside from the last 40 secs it was really positive.

Maybe it feels more like dark comedy mixed with advocacy of the game's strengths.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I don't get the compassion other than "you have characters with abilities and your shoot stuff". If these games are the same then virtually any two shooters of the last decade can be pointed to and called "the same."

I mean that's kind of the point he's making.

 

[Crankshaft]

I don't see the video as negative in tone. i actually think that aside from the last 40 secs it was really positive.

My take away is Lawbreakers is a game that makes people shaky in a crowded market and Lol at Cliffy for PR hype speech.

 

[daxy]

I'd give the game a shot if its marketing wasn't so terribly off-putting.

 

[Belker]

I've not really seen any marketing for this. Does it talk about the speed and movement? Those seem to be its USPs.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

How do you pronounce CrowbCat?

 

[NexusCell]

I know the "We wuz kings" meme is racist, but I always thought it was a reference to those hotep thinkers or people who claim "X person was actually black"

 

[Gator86]

That's an arbitrary line trying to separate works created by one person as opposed to many. It's kind of weak and not very principled.

The difference between Jontron and crowbcat are worlds apart. Jontron has done an interview, made tweets, reposted tweets with racist opinions. Crowbcat used one controversial joke according to people complaining about him. How does that make him similar to Jontron or any other racist? If you want to be prejudice against youtube creators, that's fine. There has been a lot of milkshake ducks. You don't have to watch his videos. If you're going to call him a racist then you need more than a joke.

Please define the threshold of racism required to be able to call someone a racist.

 

[Niceguydan8]

I love how a fairly large portion of this conversation is about this creator allegedly being a racist and people arguing about that as well as people talking about the actual content that was made and the merits of it.

Not saying one shouldn't exist or anything, I just find it funny.

 

[Parmadillo Marshmallow]

I'd give the game a shot if its marketing wasn't so terribly off-putting.

Really? You'd rather not play a genuinely fun game because of the marketing?

 

[Magwik]

LawBreakers has had an identity and marketing issue since the day it was announced. A fast paced hero shooter simply isn't enough to sell people on a new IP. It only works for Quake Champions because well, it has Quake behind it.

The game looks fun as all hell, but they now have the issue of people like me, avoiding it simply because there isn't a community there.

 

[forknknife]

I really like how this game looks, I'll get it soon.

 

[PSlayer]

I love how a fairly large portion of this conversation is about this creator allegedly being a racist and people arguing about that as well as people talking about the actual content that was made and the merits of it.

Not saying one shouldn't exist or anything, I just find it funny.

And it will be that way until people stop talking about CrowbCat on neogaf. That is precisely the goal: Derail every CrowbCat thread by bringing back something that happened in one video in the past until people who watch his videos go away to talk about it somewhere else or being banned because they said something on the heat of the moment(aka fell for the bait). It is a subtle,but effective, way to shut down the conversation about something you don't like. It happened in the past with other topics and it is happening in every CrowbCat videos thread. The best thing people can do is to ignore this derailposting.

 

[EL CUCO]

LawBreakers has had an identity and marketing issue since the day it was announced. A fast paced hero shooter simply isn't enough to sell people on a new IP. It only works for Quake Champions because well, it has Quake behind it.

The game looks fun as all hell, but they now have the issue of people like me, avoiding it simply because there isn't a community there.

I mean, I've had no issues getting matches filled in my 71hrs on it. Also, there is definitely a community on the game as seen on the official LB discord, and Reddit's 7,000 subs. The people that have given the game an honest chance, have been very impressed with how polished and fun it is once it clicks.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

man that was good

 

[ZoddGutts]

I love how a fairly large portion of this conversation is about this creator allegedly being a racist and people arguing about that as well as people talking about the actual content that was made and the merits of it.

Not saying one shouldn't exist or anything, I just find it funny.

Usually the same people that keep bringing this up too. "Guys guys did you know he used that kangz meme!" At this point it's only trying to derail the thread.

Anyways staying on topic, Lawbreakers never really show much as to how it separates itself from something like Overwatch. Surprise though it opened lower than Battleborn.

 

[SafeinSound]

well "we" didn't make the video, for one

Sorry, didn't mean to offend you.

Was just stating that some people in this thread are having a good time shitting on people's hard work.

Also, video games shouldn't get a special pass. All I'm saying is, try to think about PEOPLE. Or don't.

 

[Niceguydan8]

2

Anyways staying on topic, Lawbreakers never really show much as to how it separates itself from something like Overwatch. Surprise though it opened lower than Battleborn.

It's weird to me because to me those differences between it and OW were VERY apparent within a couple of marches. It doesn't really share many similarities outside of some pretty reductive comparisons.

I agree that the marketing didn't do a good job differentiating. It's weird to me that it can feel so different yet not show that very well in marketing materials.

 

[Conkerkid11]

As much as I like Lawbreakers and wished for its success (even though the game is unoptimized and runs like shit), do yourself a favor and watch a bit of the video. It's basically a highlight reel of Cliffy B being an arrogant fuck. It's kind of hilarious in retrospect, considering how poorly the game ended up doing, and it's likely gonna end up needing to go the F2P route just like Battleborn.

 

[eizarus]

Really? You'd rather not play a genuinely fun game because of the marketing?

Just had a look in the OT and there's this level of stupidity from some people there too.

 

[Saoshyant]

LawBreakers plays so differently from Overwatch that it's weird to see them being compared so often. It's a good game and it's a shame it will apparently die in obscurity months from now.

CliffyB is an embarrasment, though. My multimillion dollar IP that is the Dark Souls of shooters and won't be on Xbox 'cause I hate Xbox. What the christ.

 

[Messofanego]

Was cool to hear the Quantum Break music over this. Dodging Bullets is the most hype track on that OST.

 

[Gaz_RB]

You'd think a guy looking to make another billion dollar IP would be able to read the industry a little better. The hero shooter market saturated a year ago and, because of the high skill ceilings involved with those types of games, you're not likely to pull someone away from the game they've decided to settle into.

RIP Cliffy's career.

 

[ODDI]

How do you pronounce CrowbCat?

Crobb-Cat

 

[border]

And he isn't wrong, he is honest.

Who said he wasn't honest? What does his honesty matter? He's trying to sell his game. Capitulating that the difference between Lawbreakers and Overwatch isn't much more than art style is not a very good way to draw players to your new IP.

 

[EL CUCO]

As much as I like Lawbreakers and wished for its success (even though the game is unoptimized and runs like shit), do yourself a favor and watch a bit of the video. It's basically a highlight reel of Cliffy B being an arrogant fuck. It's kind of hilarious in retrospect, considering how poorly the game ended up doing, and it's likely gonna end up needing to go the F2P route just like Battleborn.

What's your rig? First I hear someone say this. It's always the opposite.

 

[Conkerkid11]

lol at that little kid beating everyone.

That prize looked like a 1080ti? Damn

What's your rig? First I hear someone say this. It's always the opposite.

1080ti, i7 4770k

 

[Grinchy]

I didn't even know what this game was before this video. Maybe that's why the video wasn't very funny to me compared to his other ones, and maybe it's weird, but now I just want to try this game out. Looked kinda cool to me.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Who said he wasn't honest? What does his honesty matter? He's trying to sell his game. Capitulating that the difference between Lawbreakers and Overwatch isn't much more than art style is not a very good way to draw players to your new IP.

Genuine question, is that really all he tried to differentiate it with, or is it cherry picked to fit the narrative of the video? I don't know much about the creator, but it seems like the second scenario is possible due to the nature of the video. I could see (again, im not sure) some of this stuff just being taken out of context in order to support the narrative.

 

[EL CUCO]

1080ti, i7 4770k

Must be something wrong with your PC or a bug or something. Smooth as butter for me. I get over 100fps at 1440p ultra with a 1070 and stock 7700k

Have you tried reinstalling?

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

It's more than a "joke", it's a racist joke from a racist video from a racist board where the punchline is basically "black people talk funny and aren't smart". It's not as bad as jontron but he also hasn't apologized or distanced himself in any way from his "joke"

I'm not biased against YouTube creators but feel free to think that I suppose.

I dislike 4chan so I don't know the origin of the joke or how it is used by 4chan. There is a little more to the joke than what you describe according to google. If it was blackface, sure it would be clearly wrong. Making fun of people who believe in black egyptian pseudo-history I don't see how that is different with joking at the expense of people who believe other pseudo-histories and conspiracy theories.

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

I only knew about this game's existence when I was going to LA and someone had it on their shirt around E3. The game looks good and all...but it's another fucking hero shooter. Stop with this bullshit!!

 

[Budi]

Is there any particular reason why he didn't want to launch on Xbox as well considering that playerbase is pretty shooter-friendly? This video hurts because the game actually looks good and I understand it's angle but I'm just not a fps guy, if I was I'd play this though. It feels like a case of too little too late but more just too late. I wish Cliff could merge the energy from this game and the instence gameplay with a third person action game although it's probably a huge task, I just feel that genre of game will never really be over saturated.

Yes, he would say why in the Crowbcat video if it wasn't cut away just before that. It's a business decision, PS4/PC has better install base and they are relatively small studio. They aren't against Xbox, if it sold better they would definitely bring it over. But not sure if that's possible at the moment.

LawBreakers plays so differently from Overwatch that it's weird to see them being compared so often. It's a good game and it's a shame it will apparently die in obscurity months from now.

CliffyB is an embarrasment, though. My multimillion dollar IP that is the Dark Souls of shooters and won't be on Xbox 'cause I hate Xbox. What the christ.

Oh come on, stop listening to quotes out of context. Read above why it launched on PS4 and PC. Dumb fucks think that Cliffy hates Xbox, don't be a dumb fuck. It's even in this video where he says that it's not because he would hate Xbox, but some fans have taken it that way.

Who said he wasn't honest? What does his honesty matter? He's trying to sell his game. Capitulating that the difference between Lawbreakers and Overwatch isn't much more than art style is not a very good way to draw players to your new IP.

Really, I just didn't tell you in what other ways they have made the differences clear? It's just not the art style (as they have stated) but it's definitely part of it. You wan't him to sell his games more in Sean Murray, Randy Pitchford and Peter Molyneux kind of way if honesty doesn't matter to you? Look here for example https://youtu.be/WiW9AiHQ9Nc?t=313 the art style is mentioned, but after that plenty of other differences. Just because people pick up the anime quote and run with it to hate Cliff even more doesn't mean they haven't talked about other differences. It's astonishing that you don't get this.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

You don't have to watch his videos. If you're going to call him a racist then you need more than a joke.

He put a racist joke into his video. That was an explicitly racist act. We're allowed to call it as such.
I don't know why there's sensitivity to this obvious thing. I can guess but that might be rude.

 

[LordBaztion]

this reminds me when gaf made the Rime's creative director cry.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I'm not surprised at the Overwatch comparisons at all. Heck, before Overwatch came out people were comparing it to MOBAs, even after it came out some still did. If people can compare an arena shooter to a MOBA they can easily compare one arena shooter to another.

I'm not sure this is really a case of oversaturation so much as it is a case of releasing after the Overwatch juggernaut. Either you still like/love Overwatch or it has managed to sour you on the entire sub-genre.

From watching youtube/twitch video of the game it looks like very small, CoD-sized arenas with gameplay speed similar to the infantry bits of Titanfall II. Just isn't going to do it for me. Wasn't even interesting enough to get me to try the free beta, much less buy it. Not sure even F2P would work at this point.

Doesn't help that the face of the game is somebody who has shot whatever credibility they had with the community a long time ago. Is like he learned nothing from watching Romero make exactly the same mistakes. It is Daikatana all over again. For the record, I enjoyed Daikatana, FWIW.