The Grim Heaper
Member
I think both had bad framerate problems.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade
- Thread starter Moral Panic
- Start date
Portugeezer
Member
I always got the feeling they were showing the PC version... looked too good for last gen consoles in my eyes.
Orthogonal
Member
That's what I'm thinking/hoping. The PC was identified as the lead development platform initially and I imagine that's why all the original reveals looked so good. Performance issues on the PS360 ports necessitated a downgrade, but it seems they are still there, just turned off based on reports of the boss intro's still having it. I expect From will probably have a graphical setting to turn it on for PC or a modder can add it back.
While I absolutely agree with you, it doesn't change the fact that they showed the game running on PS3 with the lighting and then removed it, it's completely different.
If people were just bitching because the game is no graphical marvel for no reason when everyone knew it wouldn't be, then I'd be on your side.
That said, from the little I watched, I do think the game looks pretty good, but I also think the first game looks incredible (at least on PC with DSfix)
I hope so. Even if it doesn't I'm not too worried, just the fact that it'll support higher resolutions and framerate without the need to call our hero Durante is reason to celebrate imo.
In the other hand DSfix was honestly better than most good ports when it comes to the options it gives you to customize your game, so even if the port is good it'll most likely be far from being Durante good.
It's true
360 version of DS2 has tearing. At least in the opening sections.
Love my PC
Can't wait for the definitive version.
UnrealEck
Member
Like I said, they obviously decided performance wasn't up to standards and had to make changes before finalising it.
Before and after the downgrade? That's a shame if it's the case. Obviously the changes weren't significant enough to improve performance to what many would deem acceptable levels. Though as is the case with console games, they have to decide upon a happy medium. How good can we make the game look whilst keeping it at a decent frame rate. I guess they settled on what is apparently still poor performance. I'd hate to see how people would react if they actually did go for more performance and dropped the graphical quality even lower.
I don't think it will be cheaper than nuuvem's $36
It's true
360 version of DS2 has tearing. At least in the opening sections.
Love my PC
Can't wait for the definitive version.
Bummer. If it's brief, I guess I can tolerate it.
Orthogonal
Member
From got enough flak from Blighttown performance that they probably don't want a repeat. It's a tough decision to make, but in the end, I think it's the right one. Just hoping they give players the choice in the PC version.
UnrealEck
Member
This is what I think has happened too. The guy from Namco even mentioned the Blighttown performance feedback in a video I saw a few days ago.
legacyzero
Banned
Oh no
Please tell me the PC version has that beautiful lighting!
Please tell me the PC version has that beautiful lighting!
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Pretty much, and we ain't talking about no 700$ pc... if you go pc and want 60 fps, crazy resolution and all on max you're going to have to pony up big time! 700$ just about covers the video card...
I saw final release footage of the Huntsman Copse area that was featured in the PS3 Beta, it's completely different in terms of lighting.
Whatever mood there was is significantly diminished, you don't need to carry torches because it's now pretty easy to see in previously very dark environments. It's just missing a ton of lighting effects and it really destroys alot of the atmosphere.
That's the main issue, it's not about texture resolution or that kind of stuff, it's about the fact that the lighting is one of the most important aspects in terms of setting the tone and mood of an environment. What was once a moody, dark forest becomes a kind of flat lifeless collection of trees.
What truly sucks is that it's clear that the game was developed with a different lighting scheme in mind, they had it running on PS3 and the framerate was acceptable for a Souls game. It doesn't even sound like the downgrade improved things in that regard but it clearly butchered the look of the game. Certain areas were built with the need to carry torches in mind, doesn't even seem to apply any longer, visual downgrade has gameplay ramifications.
I hope we get to play the game as it was intended at some point atleast, maybe the PC version won't suffer from these unfortunate downgrades.
Whatever mood there was is significantly diminished, you don't need to carry torches because it's now pretty easy to see in previously very dark environments. It's just missing a ton of lighting effects and it really destroys alot of the atmosphere.
That's the main issue, it's not about texture resolution or that kind of stuff, it's about the fact that the lighting is one of the most important aspects in terms of setting the tone and mood of an environment. What was once a moody, dark forest becomes a kind of flat lifeless collection of trees.
What truly sucks is that it's clear that the game was developed with a different lighting scheme in mind, they had it running on PS3 and the framerate was acceptable for a Souls game. It doesn't even sound like the downgrade improved things in that regard but it clearly butchered the look of the game. Certain areas were built with the need to carry torches in mind, doesn't even seem to apply any longer, visual downgrade has gameplay ramifications.
I hope we get to play the game as it was intended at some point atleast, maybe the PC version won't suffer from these unfortunate downgrades.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
Only if you have a sub-par PC would it run bad, with the exception being Blightown.
It needed mods to not look like the console version.
phoeniks314
Banned
maybe they want us tu use the torch lightning system, lightning a torch in a room completely changes the lightning from bland and lifeless to yellow bright light and if you die the torch stays on. I made some shots.
without torch
with torch
this torch stays on forever
same here
without torch
with torch
this torch stays on forever
same here
OldAsUrSock
Banned
Graphical glitch confirmedmaybe they want us tu use the torch lightning system, lightning a torch in a room completely changes the lightning from bland and lifeless to yellow bright light and if you die the torch stays on. I made some shots.
without torch
with torch
this torch stays on forever
same here
Lol I guess that shoots a lot of theories out of the windowmaybe they want us tu use the torch lightning system, lightning a torch in a room completely changes the lightning from bland and lifeless to yellow bright light and if you die the torch stays on. I made some shots.
without torch
with torch
this torch stays on forever
same here
This room is supposed to be PITCH BLACK not this gray hallway that you can see in easily. Sure lighting the torch makes it look more pleasant but that's not the way it's supposed to be.
You're supposed to sacrifice your left hand weapon slot for visibility by carrying a torch until you light the fires. Here you could clearly see any enemy that's lurking down there.
H_Prestige
Banned
I think it looks better now. Way too contrasty before. Can see the environments better.
Mechanized
Member
Wasn't there a story saying they changed how the lighting works so that using the torch was more meaningful?
Orthogonal
Member
Except in the current incarnation it is less meaningful.
Seriously, that aspect of the game has gone straight out the window essentially.
Except the remnants of it are still there, it's clear the game wasn't meant to look this way.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Maybe he didn't properly set up the gamma? I wonder how many people do adjust the bar until the "shield is visible but dragon is no longer visible" (or whatever it was)...
Orthogonal
Member
This is a good point, that needs to be tested. Still, this doesn't change the differences seen with the Mirror Knight fight, but things wouldn't be as bad if it was just because we were comparing torch/non-torch lit area's.
Metalingus5150
Member
I can't say I'm not disappointed.
No, the difference is on the engine side. Some parts of the lighting engine are just straight up disabled.
And to people saying that graphics don't matter and that gameplay is everything, please, just stop. You're not making any sense.
Would people think as highly of Silent Hill if every area was flat and brightly lit instead of expertly crafted and lit for maximum atmosphere? This shit was ESSENTIAL in making the game what it was.
Sure Dark Souls 2 can get away with it more than something like Silent Hill because the action gameplay can stand on it's own more easily but the experience will still be significantly diminished.
Does sound and music not matter either? Might as well start making that argument while you're at it.
ScottSullivan
Member
I don't think you played the same World 2 as I did
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
As the shots above demonstrate, the new lighting system is part of the gameplay. Really, that's a big reason why so many are concerned. If this isn't a glitch or bug, and isn't patched, it changes the way parts of the game were supposed to play.
Plus the new lighting was part of the art direction.
Paracelsus
Member
As long as there's a PC version, it can be fixed, and unlike godawful GTA4 this isn't a heavyweight game, it can be ENBed and reshaded without crippling videocards.
Red Liquorice
Member
Well the Mirror Knight comparison in the OP looks pretty damning, but then we have the shots posted on this page by phoeniks314 which shed more light on the matter (nyuk, nyuk!)
I guess we'll find out this week - THIS WEEK guys, I'm gonna pee my pants even if it looks like a Spectrum game. Waaaaaaaah!
I guess we'll find out this week - THIS WEEK guys, I'm gonna pee my pants even if it looks like a Spectrum game. Waaaaaaaah!
cpp_is_king
Member
More importantly, what's the frame rate on ps3? If it stays a stable 30 with these downgrades, I'll take it happily over Blighttown v2
UnrealEck
Member
Yes, although the textures were already surprisingly good and scaled well with increases to the resolution of the game. I'm not sure if the textures were redone for PC, I doubt it.
Quite interesting and would make sense as a design element integral to the gameplay and/or the atmosphere.
However what about the lighting in the other areas like the Mirror Knight.
MiamiWesker
Member
A torch, really guys. That was it. We spent a whole day getting upset cause someone forgot to light a torch...
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Yeah. This is pretty... ugh. I was wondering why the Beta looked SO MUCH better than the shots From were vomiting out, and now I guess we know.
It seems to completely invert the point of the torch mechanic since you can see more in the dark than the lit by torch version. I dunno what to do now. I was all gungho for the console version as I want to avoid PC trainer cheaters and also not wait a month but... fuck. This is a BIG hit.
SneakyStephan
Banned
So what is the point of the torches now if you can see better without lighting them?
They make grey rooms orange now.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The true Orange Souls starts here.
Orthogonal
Member
Not quite, the area's without a Torch were supposed to be near pitch black. The lighting system is still significantly downgraded. It makes the torch mechanic useless.
MiamiWesker
Member
True but I was more concerned of never having cool fire lit room effects.
I agree with this.
It wasn't worth complaining about, but I wasn't a huge fan of the lighting shown in the beta.