haha yea I don't like the small area boss fights. I am in blighttown now. The bosses aren't too big of a deal but going through the areas is a pain.
It's (mostly) optional
haha yea I don't like the small area boss fights. I am in blighttown now. The bosses aren't too big of a deal but going through the areas is a pain.
Well, everyone here is wrong because the real lore is that the chosen unkindled or whatever (who is canonically female and named Toadette or something) plunged down on a huge ass dragon using only her bare fist and managed to kill it in one strike and then nothing else mattered even fuckin' Gwyn couldn't do that shit had to use his stupid ass wussy lightning bolts what a loser and so Nito resurrected himself to comment how he is nowhere near as nito as the chosen unkindled the end.
Fuck everything else in the story it doesn't matter. Except Gavlan should have his own Recettear-esque spin off game.
Hyperbole much? To each his own, but I personally got goosebumps when I realized that I am at Anor Londo. Dark Souls 2 story just disappointed me a bit too much and everything here flows much better in my opinion. Dark Souls 2 felt tack on for me and because of that I never played through the game more than twice.
The whole Gwyndolin thing and the Dragonarmour are both things which I didn't like that much too, but the lore behind both of them was enough for me to connect them to the whole thing.
Also the third ending is the only ending in the whole franchise that changes the whole outcome for them.
Except two other people in this thread already agree with me and you've presented no counter argument which only serves to make my points stronger. Also please leave your bullshit slippery slope mentality else where. I do not HATE this game. It's all I'm playing right now. I am just not blind to the game's obvious short comings.
Yeah, I tend to agree with you Zero. There's so much going on in this game but a lot of it seems like fan service for the sake of fanservice. Theres not a lot of mention of the abyss apart from the Abyss Watcher's, except maybe that's what that gooey black stuff is? And there's no humanity anymore, which is a little strange. Even in DS2 there were the human effigies and the Manus fragments which were clearly linked to humanity. It seems kind of weird that these would just be non-elements now.
And apparently multiple people can link the fire? The Abyss Watchers collectively linked the fire in the past? That's a pretty interesting observation, and I'd like to know more about it. And why are there two full-fledged Dark Wraiths right outside the boss door? The Rosaria's Fingers dude tells you that there's only one remaining and he's locked in the lowest cell in the first area. So I guess these two guys are just unrelated?
It's just kind of frustrating since DS1 did such a good job of relating gameplay and enemy placement to lore, and DS2 went out of its way to create a world that echoed a lot of the first game but at the same time was radically different.
Yeah, I tend to agree with you Zero. There's so much going on in this game but a lot of it seems like fan service for the sake of fanservice. Theres not a lot of mention of the abyss apart from the Abyss Watcher's, except maybe that's what that gooey black stuff is? And there's no humanity anymore, which is a little strange. Even in DS2 there were the human effigies and the Manus fragments which were clearly linked to humanity. It seems kind of weird that these would just be non-elements now.
It could always be a vertical pilgrimage and not a horizontal one.
Also yah you don't hollow? Are you just an ash person? If so why? Why can't everyone be ash people. No hollowing is good. You need to be *forced* to hollow by Yoel. The pilgrims can make you hollow but other people should be able to hollow normally? Why are some people ash people and not others?
Why is Kaathe mentioned at all? Fuckin dark serpents what are they.
Do all the lords of cinder have a secret pact to turn out the fire?
Why is Lothric cursed? Why do the pilgrim butterflies protect him? Why is he the only Lord of Cinder they protect?
Why are the fire keepers different now? Why is there just one forever resurrecting fire keeper? Why does she have to be blind? Why does her crown have a dark sigil on it?
Why is "your" firelink shrine fake and yet everyone shows up there?
What is the real firelink shrine then if your fake one is fake?
Is the real firelink shrine the fake? It's encased in forever darkness so is it from an unkindled that chose dark lord mode?
Why is Oceiros literally never acknowledged outside of his boss fight. He seems to be completely irrelevant outside of his items in his little room. He worships dragons and made himself a dragon? Or was he always half a dragon? Did he fuck Oedon and make a formless baby? Why is Ocelotte only a voice? Why is Ocelotte even a thing if they don't lead her/him into anything? Why does Ocelotte sound like Shanalotte and why are they probably related?
If the default ending is linking the fire more why does the Soul of Cinder still try to stop you? Doesn't it want you to fuel it more?
What is up with the darksign sun and why is it leaking in the kiln? Is it just more berserk reference for the sake of berserk reference?
Why do embers exist now and why are they related to humanity? What happened to humanity? Is it still just there and never mentioned?
Why does Yuria want you to stick a sword through a dead person's face? Why does that give you their dark sigil? Why do dark sigils exist? Doesn't the darksign resemble the curse and therefore hollowing? You start the game with a darksign so why don't you hollow? Why do you have to be given something to begin hollowing if you already have the dark sign?
What is with the crazy dark virus goop? Why does it only happen to 8 enemies and only those 8? Why is there two Gundyr's and why is one whole and the other infected? Why does Oceiros have a bunch of black goo men in his garden?
Why does Pontiff Sulyvhan love Bloodborne? Why does he make all his soldiers werewolves? Why does he protect a man made out of black goop? Why is Pope Sulyvhan following a saint made out of black goop? Why does the man made out of black goop look like Gwyndolin? Did a dead Gwyndolin body get eaten by black goop? Wouldn't it have rotten? He wants to eat gods but Gwyndolin would have been long dead.
Why is there another half dragon lady? Did Priscilla get out of the painting? How did she get out of the painting? If she could have left like you did, why didn't she earlier? Why do the priests keep the same doll around that let you enter the painting? Why is Irythill protected by the doll?
Why are dark wraiths still around? Why are these random dark wraiths just sitting around in a swamp? What are they after? Do they just want to kill the Abyss Watchers?
What was the black goo?
Whyyyyyyyyyyyy
Of course there are good moments for a fan, and I enjoy the game a lot, but the main story of finding the four lords and linking the flame/not linking the flame feels to much of a rethread honestly
Can't wait for the 4 part DLC that tries to salvage the lore.
Yeah that's likely a poetic license type thing. Lords of Cinder just sounds good. But you're right, when I think cinder or ember I think of the remains of a dying fire.
I would like to know what the darksign in the sky indicates. It's like the late-game twist... only nobody mentions it anywhere as far as I know.
Frognation are the kings of poetic license in video game localization, and I think they generally do an excellent job of it. The vocabulary and phrasing they come up with are really appealing to me.
At the same time, the Japanese text often provides a much plainer impression.
Kings of Kindling is one example. That's the impression you get, and it isn't exactly cool.
Lots of examples of stuff like this. Another would be 冷たい谷, which is literally just "cold valley" got localized as "Boreal Valley."
I'll admit that I had to look up "boreal" when I first saw it, but from what I can tell it implies a northern climate (as in physically located in the north) rather than just being "cold." Is the valley really that far north of the rest of the game?
Yeah, boreal is from "borealis", the Latin word for "north"; despite taking so much from the Romans, most European languages actually use Old English-derived words for directions (north, south, east, west).
Makes sense!
So the English is implying some kind of geographic positioning while the Japanese is simply describing the temperature.
There's only a single thing that bothers me as far as localization is concerned, and that's the fact that I think "Incarnation of Kings" is a far cooler boss name than what we got. But that's just personal taste.
The final boss? What's the English name?
I thought this was interesting from a localization point of view.
In English, they are called the Lords of Cinder.
Now, to me, "cinder" implies hot fragments in a burnt out fire. So Lords that have already burnt up and had their fire go out, or begin to go out, at least.
In Japanese, they are called 薪の王(たきぎのおう = Takigi no Oh). The word takigi and the Kanji being used for it straight up mean firewood.
Here's what you get when you do a Google image search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=たきぎ...ved=0ahUKEwi0ws6W1fXLAhUU1WMKHYKjDUUQ_AUIBigB
https://www.google.com/search?q=たきぎ...ws6W1fXLAhUU1WMKHYKjDUUQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=薪
So, yeah, very much something you use to *start* a fire, not something you really use to describe a burnt out fire or a fire that's burning out.
Now, I didn't really think this was a big deal until I encountered the princes Lothric and Lorian. They are given the same title, but they refused to rekindle the flame, instead deciding to let it go out and embrace the darkness.
Because of this, it strikes me as odd to call them "Lords of Cinder." While "Lords of Kindling" or whatever is not nearly as cool of a name, I think it or something like it would be more accurate to what they're trying to convey. It kind of ties into the other concepts that not just anyone can kindle the flame, but only those with a powerful enough soul.
This translation goes back to the original Dark Souls and Gwyn, so I don't think there's any way Frognation (the localization company) could have known, but I thought it was interesting anyway.
Frognation are the kings of poetic license in video game localization, and I think they generally do an excellent job of it. The vocabulary and phrasing they come up with are really appealing to me.
At the same time, the Japanese text often provides a much plainer impression.
Kings of Kindling is one example. That's the impression you get, and it isn't exactly cool.
Lots of examples of stuff like this. Another would be 冷たい谷, which is literally just "cold valley" got localized as "Boreal Valley."
I'll admit that I had to look up "boreal" when I first saw it, but from what I can tell it implies a northern climate (as in physically located in the north) rather than just being "cold." Is the valley really that far north of the rest of the game?
There's only a single thing that bothers me as far as localization is concerned, and that's the fact that I think "Incarnation of Kings" is a far cooler boss name than what we got. But that's just personal taste.
Soul of Cinder
It fits better with the motif they already were establishing
Yoel and the pilgrims are simply undead, like you were in the past games.
Good stuff! Regarding the bolded, Frog have been localising From's games into English since Demon's, so they were well aware of all names and terms in Dark 1. As well as having Gwyn, Lord of Cinder in the original game, you also had the Rite of Kindling, so I imagine they didn't want an overlap there. Plus, as people have said, Lord of Cinder just sounds way better.
Soul of Cinder
It fits better with the motif they already were establishing
I'd agree with Yuria but not a chance with Yoel. The "pilgrims" are definitely not just undead (there are plenty of fully hollow undead around the game to show anyway).
The most obvious sign is they become GIANT SUPER DEATH BUTTERFLIES.
One thing of note: 王の化身 (singular version of 王たちの化身, which is the last boss in Dark Souls III) was the name of the trophy you got when you defeated Old King Allant in Demon's Souls, which indicated that you defeated the incarnation or avatar form of Allant, and not the original King Allant. I think this was localized as "False King" in the English version.
I'd agree with Yuria but not a chance with Yoel. The "pilgrims" are definitely not just undead (there are plenty of fully hollow undead around the game to show anyway).
The most obvious sign is they become GIANT SUPER DEATH BUTTERFLIES.
I thought this was interesting from a localization point of view.
In English, they are called the Lords of Cinder.
Now, to me, "cinder" implies hot fragments in a burnt out fire. So Lords that have already burnt up and had their fire go out, or begin to go out, at least.
In Japanese, they are called 薪の王(たきぎのおう = Takigi no Oh). The word takigi and the Kanji being used for it straight up mean firewood.
Here's what you get when you do a Google image search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=たきぎ...ved=0ahUKEwi0ws6W1fXLAhUU1WMKHYKjDUUQ_AUIBigB
https://www.google.com/search?q=たきぎ...ws6W1fXLAhUU1WMKHYKjDUUQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=薪
So, yeah, very much something you use to *start* a fire, not something you really use to describe a burnt out fire or a fire that's burning out.
Now, I didn't really think this was a big deal until I encountered the princes Lothric and Lorian. They are given the same title, but they refused to rekindle the flame, instead deciding to let it go out and embrace the darkness.
Because of this, it strikes me as odd to call them "Lords of Cinder." While "Lords of Kindling" or whatever is not nearly as cool of a name, I think it or something like it would be more accurate to what they're trying to convey. It kind of ties into the other concepts that not just anyone can kindle the flame, but only those with a powerful enough soul.
This translation goes back to the original Dark Souls and Gwyn, so I don't think there's any way Frognation (the localization company) could have known, but I thought it was interesting anyway.
Shit boss IMO, along with Ancient Wyvern. Even worse with High Lord Wolnir is that his intro is pretty damn cool...Then the fight starts and it's pure disappointment.After some consideration I think I may have to conclude that Wolnir is the worst fucking bossfight in the entire Souls series. How do I hate thee? Let me count the ways.
1) He's a huge, slow punching bag. He hardly does anything, but when he does do it, he's so big that it's almost impossible to tell. And believe me, I'm not locking on to this motherfucker.
2) Much of the fight is spent waiting until he puts his stupid arms in a place where you can attack them.
3) The fog that kills you has to be one of the worst pieces of visual feedback in the series. There's always some right underneath him but you can kind of stand in it? But then he does the big breath attack that covers way too much space and it's immediate death, pretty much. Yeah it has a huge wind-up but also I've just spent 30 seconds just waiting for him to put his damn arms in a place I can attack them leave me alone, you've all been killed by it too, don't lie.
4) He summons skeletons but they're just minor aggravations, usually he just kills them immediately, or sometimes he doesn't even get to that part if you get good RNG and his patterns are favorable.
5) Nothing about this fight is interesting, fun or an actual challenge. You get killed, you didn't learn shit. you beat him, gg, thanks for the good RNG. Whenever I beat him he usually doesn't even get his damn sword out.
I fucking hate Wolnir. He sucks, he's boring, he's cheap, and dumb. I've killed him 4 or 5 times but I always die to him at least once for some stupid shitty reason. Yeah, Bed of Chaos sucks, but you know what, at least it's reliable. I can do that shit in one almost every time. Wolnir doesn't even have that going for him.
So, I wonder how much all of the Dark Souls 2 similarities/complaints will piss people off, or if they'll kind of disappear like complaints about life gems did after Bloodborne came out.
- Humanoid bosses!
- Guy in Armor bosses!
- Boss fights against multiple things at once!
- Fast Travel!
- No inter-connectivity!
Despite all of those, the response to the game has been overwhelmingly positive, as it should be IMO. The bosses that don't fit into the categories people complain about are also listed by many as the three worst (Tree, Wyvern, and Wolnir).
I thought Wolnir was really cool, though.
So, I wonder how much all of the Dark Souls 2 similarities/complaints will piss people off, or if they'll kind of disappear like complaints about life gems did after Bloodborne came out.
- Humanoid bosses!
- Guy in Armor bosses!
- Boss fights against multiple things at once!
- Fast Travel!
- No inter-connectivity!
Despite all of those, the response to the game has been overwhelmingly positive, as it should be IMO.
Yeah all of those things are present in DS3, it's just that the bosses are still interesting despite that. There's more to them.
I'd rank the top 8 bosses as follows:I like totally understand hating the Wolnir fight...I didn't mind him too much but I wish that he was just some random big enemy you encountered while strolling through a dark area, like it seemed in some of those trailer/footage from last year, and not an actual boss.
I'd rank the top 8 bosses as follows:
1. Two Princes (great cut-scene between round 1 and 2)
2. Abyss Watchers (just wish it was late-game and a bit more difficult, still fun as hell)
3. Dancer (loved the music and the graceful movements)
4. Pontiff
5. Soul of Cinder
6. Dragonslayer Armor
7. Oceiros (enjoyed his dialogue during the fight)
8. Old Demon King
I'd rank the top 8 bosses as follows:
1. Two Princes
2. Abyss Watchers (just wish it was late-game and a bit more difficult, still fun as hell)
3. Dancer
4. Pontiff
5. Soul of Cinder
6. Dragonslayer Armor
7. Oceiros
8. Old Demon King
You know, does anyone else find it kinda funny that most souls fans seem to cry in protest at any and all "spoilers" to the point of comical absurdity (out of context boss names, really?) yet there sits the final boss of the game, and maybe the entire series, on the cover of the damned game. Is that not a "spoiler"? I mean we have people screaming in agony over discussion of bosses and/or enemies that show up in official media.
1. Abyss Watchers
2. Lorian & Lothric
3. Namless King
4. Dancer
5. Champion Gundyr
btw, anyone interested in a lore & speculation thread?