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Deep Down is Free to play, beta near PS4 Japan launch
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
Exactly, I don't see why some people can't get this through their heads.
More often than not, F2P games are designed to maximize revenue from a single copy of the game (so either you pay to win, or you spend a significant amount of your free time just grinding it out).
the only well-designed f2p games only sell cosmetics or make it extremely easy to get content that affects gameplay for free
basically the only ones i know of are tf2 and dota 2
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Hype totally deflated.
Jesus, F2P... sigh.
Jesus, F2P... sigh.
This is just wrong, where is this nonsense coming from? Any one individual could play a F2P game without spending a single cent. The whole idea behind F2P is that a portion of the user base that buys various things does so frequently thus subsidizing the game for the others who don't. What you're suggesting is that they would need everyone to at least pitch in something and if they planned that from the get go they would've gone the retail route, but they didn't.
I think the opposite point of view is fair, and with all the DLC we're getting these days, and season passes and the likes, people usually end up spending closer to 50% more than the retail price, but while I do think the f2p platform is a solid idea in theory, and plenty of games have done it well, it hasn't been as such from everyone.
In most cases I still prefer the $60 base game with DLC coming later. For most games, even when I enjoy them, I tend not to bother with DLC, and I end up getting a GOTY edition for $10 on steam years later, so there are at least options for people who don't want to spend the money, at least in certain scenarios.
I mean there are a lot of possibilities for how Deep Down will end up, it could go the PSO2 route, in which case you get access to basically everything for free, and pay for features like having a personal room, or stuff like re-specing your character, and extra conveniences. PSO2 does put trading behind a paywall, but the auction house makes that okay.
I don't have a lot of faith in Capcom to release a fully functional f2p game where paying isn't necessary to access the bulk of the content though. This is my problem far more than the concept of f2p, I have been wording things wrong at times when going against f2p, it's moreso Capcom + f2p that is the problem. In truth it's the Japanese mobile market that brings about these fears.
Make it F2P with Real Money store. Gear otherwise drops from chests at a lower rate. Mission accomplished. Make it really hard, so people want to buy gear because they can't deal with the challenge. Since it is online/co-op, friends will want to buy gear to be on par with their friends. As long as everything is obtainable in game, I don't have complaints if they go this route. People with less (no) time can pay to get better gear. People that like a challenge or have more gear can grind/clear memories for gear at a slower rate.
RPGCrazied
Member
Expect microtransactions!
This I can totally agree with. Duckroll brought to my attention that the studio behind this mostly dabbles in mobile gaming. The real scare comes from the popular of the F2P stamina model where you're essentially being sold game time, scarier than being able to buy a gamebreaking cudgel of xanthor.
I think this is a fair solution too, I've always thought if cash shop is done well, it balances out to: people with a lot of free time can get items themselves, people who work and can only play an hour or two but have money, can play on equal footing by purchasing things. As long as it's not pay to win and favours those playing, it can work nicely, getting that balance is hard though.
F2P with things like: extra storage, re-specing, 1.5x exp for 30 minutes, 2x drop rate for an hour, costing money, would not be too terrible, as long as the core game is all accessible and you can play just fine without spending money. Kind of how Guild Wars 2 and plenty of other games do it. I spent a good bit of money in GW2 for conveniences since I liked the core game so much, but that was still $60 to buy.
Yes, the stamina model is a horrifying concept to me. If they had something in Deep Down like, real time fixing your armour at a blacksmith that takes say 6-12 real hours, or pay $2 for instant-fix item, that would be the worst possible way to do this.
I hope it's in the same vein as Path of Exile, where you purchase cosmetics for skills / items, rather then actual character progression. Exploring a dungeon only to find a chest that is unopenable due to not purchasing a key with real life money would certainly kill any immersion within the game.
This is the sort of brilliant hard-hitting insight I expect from sports talk radio callers
Hype totally gone, Zero, none. It looked like a very intriguing game, but when you put all the pieces together: online only, randomly generated dungeons, and F2P, it becomes clear that it's just gonna be another crappy rushed game with no substance whatsoever, such a fucking shame I was excited for this.
I mean I can't even get close to F2P games, I loathe them specially since EA ruined PvZ2.
I guess it's at least a good thing that the ps4 has so many free titles, $400 and PS+ sub will keep me busy since I'll be short on money for a long time.
I mean I can't even get close to F2P games, I loathe them specially since EA ruined PvZ2.
I guess it's at least a good thing that the ps4 has so many free titles, $400 and PS+ sub will keep me busy since I'll be short on money for a long time.
That's not what I'm suggesting, I'm saying if you average all money across all players it'll be more than $60.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I'm still excited for it until we get details. It all depends how F2P is done. The best F2P games earn your money. They give you a good amount of content to the point where you decide you don't mind paying for certain other things whereas the bad ones give you very little and tell you that you have to pay asap to get to the good stuff.
It all depends where this one falls. It is possible to do a good F2P game.
It all depends where this one falls. It is possible to do a good F2P game.
I remember seeing an article a few years back about how the average F2P Korean MMORPG gets more money per month than if they charged every player the standard like $12 a month. The people who pay end up paying a lot.
KingSunIsFree
Banned
I feel like this was changed from a full on regular rpg to the F2P by corporate people at capcom
Bedameister
Member
when was the last time Capcom did something right?
Ah fair enough, yeah and that'd probably suggest why they went this route. It allows them to continue to earn beyond the initial investment of $60.
On a separate note, I know we've been using $60 as the standard, but what price would sit comfortably for you all knowing that the game is online-only?
For an online only, randomly generated dungeon crawl F2P was exactly the price model I was hoping for.
Chairmanchuck
Member
If you read some posts here in this thread, you can see why they feel opposed to that. It seems the japanese "F2P"-model is quite consumer-unfriendly.
Even Retail-Games like Jojos Bizarre Adventures use it for the campaign-mode.
Gotta wait till more infos come out though.
Well it depends on the amount of content really. What I would prefer is getting the game for even $60, with let's say 50 hours of content you can do with friends (before it starts to get too repetitive or easy). Then I would not mind say a $15-20 expansion every 6 months that each added another 8-10 hours of gameplay with new equipment sets and skills and such.
Something like that would be optimal to me.
Honestly even like the regular f2p model, but a $60 'year pass' that gets you all DLC and content for a year would be fine by me, assuming they release a good bit of stuff in that time, and leads to at least the 50+ hours I mentioned.
It's difficult to attach hours to an online game, since some people may spend 100 hours on a single dungeon with different groups of friends, but whenever I mention hours, I mean like I said, that many hours of mostly non-repetitive content, like different quests, or configurations of the dungeons that won't get tiresome.
I wonder if all the people going "how can you complain about getting a game for free!" are missing the point on purpose or genuinely believe that.
In case of the latter, the issue, at least for me -- and many in this thread it seems -- isn't one of cost at all. It's about the game design constraints imposed on a title by the distribution model. It's possible to create F2P games with largely inoffensive monetization models, such as DOTA2 and PoE, but they clearly are the exception rather than the rule in the F2P marketplace. Combine this with the fact that Japanese mobile F2P games in particular are closely linked with one of the most annoying and detrimental F2P practices in the stamina/waiting periods mechanic, and you can see why some concern may be justified.
In fact, what some people describe as a wost case scenario -- paying to unlock new levels -- seems almost like a best case to me. At least on the surface, such an approach would appear to have the least impact on the core game design.
In case of the latter, the issue, at least for me -- and many in this thread it seems -- isn't one of cost at all. It's about the game design constraints imposed on a title by the distribution model. It's possible to create F2P games with largely inoffensive monetization models, such as DOTA2 and PoE, but they clearly are the exception rather than the rule in the F2P marketplace. Combine this with the fact that Japanese mobile F2P games in particular are closely linked with one of the most annoying and detrimental F2P practices in the stamina/waiting periods mechanic, and you can see why some concern may be justified.
In fact, what some people describe as a wost case scenario -- paying to unlock new levels -- seems almost like a best case to me. At least on the surface, such an approach would appear to have the least impact on the core game design.
Stevetopsy
Member
Yes, that's what we're upset about, not having to pay money.
quickwhips
Member
have they announced how the free to play works?
That's completely wrong.
The idea behind f2p is your revenue per user is much lower, but your total user base is much higher.
Let's say Game X cost 10$, and sold 50,000 copies. Now let's say you release the same game for free with micro transactions. With no cost of entry, a million people download it. With the new model, revenue per user is only 1$. In this example, they make much less per user but take in twice as much money because they have so many more users,
DD doesn't need rpu more than 60 to make f2p worthwhile.
They'd miss out on all that whale-money.
Also, the stuff offered in these types of games usually goes well beyond 60 dollars total and offering a $420-complete-package would expose the ridiculous pricing too much.
Baleoce
Member
This. I'm so glad there are people out there who can articulate the point this well. *This* is the issue..
Dragon's Dogma and the Dark Arisen expansion. Just give me a quality, packed experience like that with a substantial expansion down the road and I will gladly buy it. I don't want to be sold bits and pieces of a game as I go along. It totally takes you out of the experience seeing everything being sold for real money as you are trying to progress and stay immersed.
Okay thanks, I see the flaw in my logic.
robertlebrone
Member
lol, what's up with all the people saying they are "out" since the game was announced as F2P? It's free! It can't hurt to try it.
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
I'm glad it's f2p. This game probably has 400hrs worth of content, there's no way I'm gonna waste that much time leveling up weapons and armour for $60. Since it's free, I can play most of the game and probably get decent weapons without caring about going further like the hardcore.
Yeah, Dark Arisen is fantastic, the open world is a bit barren and repetitive, but the dungeons, core combat and bosses are great, and the dungeon the expansion added is pretty amazing.
I really hope Dragon's Dogma 2 is still on the table, they likely learned a lot from Dragon's Dogma, and a sequel next-gen fixing the smaller imperfections of the game could be great.
Ace Attorney 5 is supposed to be great too, and it was a speedy localization job too, the only problem there being no retail copy, but it's something Capcom deserves credit for at least.
I get this point but completely writing off the game before we know how it's handling payment is kind of nuts. I guess since I play a decent amount of iOS stuff I'm not phased by it since there are a lot of games I've sunk many hours into without paying a dime.
Yeah, but what were you expecting from an action game with randomly generated dungeons and online focus (actually it was always online even before they said it was F2P)?
Why is a lot of people acting like the game was different before? It was some AAA roguelike online only thing. It always suited the F2P model, I didn't actually think they would do it, but it's not like because of this announcement the game we saw before is gone.
I understand why a lot of people wouldn't like this kind of game (I'm not very fond of it myself and stopped playing Warframe because it felt way too grindy when I didn't have friends online to play it with. Didn't spend a penny though), but it was always this kind of game, why are you only now saying it sucks and blaming the F2P model?
Now this is perfectly valid and I completely agree with. A Capcom F2P game is not good news, if they don't really change their business practices.
I agree, and I'm not advocating that. I'm just trying to explain why some are concerned (and might in fact be happier with a traditionally distributed and designed title).
I can agree with this, people are scared off because with F2P there is always a catch, but they're given the option to spend a lump sum on a years worth of content like you suggest then it should at the very least quell fears that they may be charged at every interval.
EDIT: In fact isn't that essentially what's being done with Killer Instinct?
Jawmuncher
Member
Intrest is on life support now for me. It still looks good but man F2P always brings me warning flags. Still I suppose it being F2P no reason not to try it.
Street Fighter 4 balance patches and updates.
Oh man, that is horrifying, do some games actually do this?
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