Yes lets please continue to come into the thread and ignore guided games which is a direct response to people wanting some sort of mm-like tool for higher level activities.
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Destiny 2 once again doesn't have matchmaking for non-Raid content
- Thread starter Alo0oy
- Start date
Nameless
Member
This dumb debate starts & stops right here. Strange how there's so much push back from people who wouldn't be affected by this in the slightest.
At the same time, why do people want to play content that they dont want to meaningfully engage with? Doesnt Bungie get a choice in designing / curating their own content?
Its designed with a minimum level of investment in mind: six people who have agreed on an indefinite amount of time together, individual accountability to the rest of the group, and near-mandatory group communication.
Traditional matchmaking can't guarantee or enforce any of those things, or at least not without legal paperwork.
Its hardly a dumb debate. Matchmaking killed WoWs community, its not some utopian service thats deliberately being held from you to make your life miserable.
Boiling it down to whether you are "for" or "against" choice is pretty dumb, though.
I'll do you one better. . .let's continue coming into the thread, assume folks haven't heard of GG and still think it's not the solution they're looking for, and then finger wag them for their "ignorance" nose firmly in the air.
. . .and point me to the throngs of people who said they wanted a "matchmaking lite. . ." system and not, you know, actual match making.
CraigerGamer
Member
You think I want to become "friends" with people who AFK or grief the entire time? MM doesn't bring people closer together. It makes meeting people inconsequential which leads to horrible, horrible behavior. So yes, it's about the game and playing it with friends, both past, present and future.
RecRoulette
Member
Guided games is only in the game through some weird ticketing system beta right now isn't it?
If guided games does not suffice then dont play the game lol. Idk what to tell you. Its a solution and If anything guided games is a more involved than traditional matchmaking system. Whatre you on about?
No ticket system in the final iteration apparently.
Nameless
Member
At this point you're probably right, if for no other reason than Bungie would look unspeakably ridiculous once people started clearing Raids through MM.
Seth Enosh
Member
You'll be able to queue up for the raid using guided games starting next week, in game with no LFG sites or barriers to entry.
However if you don't want an "asshole telling you what to do" there is no form of MM that would solve your problem. The raid is high level content that requires team work and communication. If you go in with a desire to not talk to your team mates you will not be able to complete the content.
Players must be protected against their choices. It's very Nintendo.
Niceguydan8
Member
Thanks for adding value to the conversation. Instead of reducing the opposing opinion to something that doesn't really resemble the actual discussion, maybe participate in it? I don't see how you did anything outside of dumping on the opinion of certain people and misrepresenting it.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
Well thank fucking god.
Its the premise of this thread; this thread is about the fact that destiny doesn't have matchmaking. Guided games IS matchmaking. In fact most of your replies to me in this thread are absolute garbage and contribute nothing.
Limited matchmaking. I don't believe GG aapplies to trials.
Well yea it doesn't and I'm glad it doesn't. I've explained my opinion of it a couple pages back.
Seth Enosh
Member
This thread is going nowhere. The OP needs to be updated with a link to information on Guided Games and the launch date and scope of Guided Games so it stops misleading people. There is essentially a MM-like feature for solo queue players launching from beta in 7 days but this thread, especially the title, ignores that.
Niceguydan8
Member
These last few pages are a much more nuanced discussion that have evolved from the (bad) title of the thread. It is people talking about their opinions for/against a more broad matchmaking voluntary option outside of the very limited option of Guided Games and the positives and negatives associated with it.
Coming in here and posting what you posted at this point is just not relevant.
Your shitposty agenda is always welcome in destiny threads, gator. Why do you still play a game you hate so much?
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
How is it limited? You want to do the Nightfall or Raid you choose that option, wait a bit and then do it.
How is it different from matchmaking in any way aside from there being far less chance of someone dropping out and fucking those left behind?
There will be positives and negatives for every matchmaking system. The Guided Games matchmaking is more of their idea to match make you WHILE helping you make new friends. Its a great idea actually. Will it have negatives? Sure. But theres also a report feature. We have a matchmaking system.. this thread shouldn't even exist TBH. It spreads a lot of misinformation.
Niceguydan8
Member
The ๖ۜBronx;249369522 said:
If I want to queue up with my friend and do the raid, can I do it?
It's much more limited in that respect. In some ways, like teaching a player the raid, I think that's actually a really good idea.
If I want to queue up with one friend and try to do the raid, I either need to use an external source or just not do it at all. So, I need to either have a group of 5 or a group of 1 in order to raid. That is absolutely limited matchmaking.
Sure, and some people here (like myself!) are saying that hey, maybe there's not a huge downside to having that AS WELL as allowing the player to opt-in to play with randoms. These raids are not so difficult that it's impossible to do with random players, especially as this raid gets older and the community as a whole gets more comfortable with the mechanic.
I'm not saying GG is bad. As a matter of fact, I think it's a great idea when it comes to teaching solo players how to do the raid. I'm saying that I think they could loosen the chains on the matchmaking even more and allow people the option to queue with randoms. There's a higher chance that experience would suck, but that's something that most people going into that probably know.
NullPointer
Member
Solo-only seems pretty limited, if that's how it works. As I mentioned before most of my time in Destiny was spent as a duo. With raids we might pull in another one or two from the friend's list if we got lucky.The ๖ۜBronx;249369522 said:
psynergylover
Member
I will add my thoughts in saying that Guided Games was Bungie's answer to nightfall and raid not having general match-making, it might not be the best solution but it at least gives Destiny owners to beat high/end game content if they have a big enough group of their own. I was one who really wanted general match-making for Raids in Destiny until I finally stumbled on into one...then I realized why they didn't put it in; shit was unlike anything I experienced in Destiny before hand. It's Destiny's most high end content which requires you to have the best weapons and gear and a great deal of communication.
Now can this be done general? Probably, however the problems that already exist when LFG'ing would probably magnify tenfold via general match-making; you remember that party member afk during that strike? Or those who rage quit when in pvp? Now imagine that happening in the middle of a raid? We saw the best of the best take on Destiny's new raid in roughly 6 hours!!! I was stuck on two parts 6 fucking hours each!!! Y'all gonna tell me you and 5 random are going to stick around for that long? Repeated attempts failed because some person didn't shoot this, some person didn't step on that, or Destiny decides to go "fuck you, hold dis glitch!" Destiny's raid isn't just some long strike with a couple of modifiers. It would better to at least plan for a raid; like done in the Dgaf thread to when you're available and what your looking for in a group, a raid if not portions of it will take hours.
I know many have said it here but I implore y'all to come to Dgaf! Met some of the best people on Destiny from raids/nightfalls/pvp! There are other sites around the net dedicated to help people whether they're new or a harden vet, and with the introduction of the clan system you can find people from your region and or time zone. It can't to complex to come to GAF and not click on the D2 thread, he'll im typing this on my phone with my PS4 on in the background.
Now for nightfall; they could put in general match-making, I used to run certain nightfalls be myself in D1. As for D2 maybe the time limit might make it more complex but I think it could still be done with a group of randoms.
Now can this be done general? Probably, however the problems that already exist when LFG'ing would probably magnify tenfold via general match-making; you remember that party member afk during that strike? Or those who rage quit when in pvp? Now imagine that happening in the middle of a raid? We saw the best of the best take on Destiny's new raid in roughly 6 hours!!! I was stuck on two parts 6 fucking hours each!!! Y'all gonna tell me you and 5 random are going to stick around for that long? Repeated attempts failed because some person didn't shoot this, some person didn't step on that, or Destiny decides to go "fuck you, hold dis glitch!" Destiny's raid isn't just some long strike with a couple of modifiers. It would better to at least plan for a raid; like done in the Dgaf thread to when you're available and what your looking for in a group, a raid if not portions of it will take hours.
I know many have said it here but I implore y'all to come to Dgaf! Met some of the best people on Destiny from raids/nightfalls/pvp! There are other sites around the net dedicated to help people whether they're new or a harden vet, and with the introduction of the clan system you can find people from your region and or time zone. It can't to complex to come to GAF and not click on the D2 thread, he'll im typing this on my phone with my PS4 on in the background.
Now for nightfall; they could put in general match-making, I used to run certain nightfalls be myself in D1. As for D2 maybe the time limit might make it more complex but I think it could still be done with a group of randoms.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Fair point, well made. I still think there's little effective way of it doing it for a raid like Leviathan while ensuring everyone has a good time with it. Every addition of a person that can no clue what they're doing can result in a lot of frustration, especially with this raid. I can see your point more clearly now though. A raid with two randoms is of course achievable but if it's a blanket rule you have to account for the clueless.
milkham
Member
Randoms can clear raids. My first raid clears were all random people in the tower looking for raid groups. I've also spent many a week rolling the dice on lfg, r/fireteams and gaf, and for many groups it is impossible. I've run the gamut, randoms who all know what to do and you clear on the first or second try to guys who don't know what to do but refuse to tell you so beforehand even when asked. Being the lone guy joining a ready-made group of 5 with guided games sounds like it will be a better experience to me.
I like D2 a lot. I called it excellent in the Angry Joe thread, among many others. I can criticize things I like. D2 is a game with lots of flaws and shortcomings that's still a good time, especially with friends.
It's possible to have responses to things outside of "I will die for this franchise" and "I must destroy this game."
powersurge
Member
What they really should of done is had a LFR type system like World of Warcraft has. You can complete the raid on easy mode for lesser gear and story completion with randoms in matchmaking then you have normal mode and above for guilds/clans.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Curious, in what ways do they differ the difficulty between the versions?
Let me just first say that I'm a fan of Destiny, but I agree that they should just have matchmaking and there's no harm in giving choice.
However... have you seen the mechanics of the new raid fights? I don't even know how long it'll take before I can complete it with anyone, let alone randoms. It takes coordination of so many things that it's overwhelming.
HiredN00bs
Member
1. Players have almost 100% guaranteed bad experiences in conceptually poor matchmaking options
2. Players rightfully judge the design of these options to be poor and at least stop using them, making them even less viable, and possibly have a bad enough experience to play less or stop playing altogether
3. Other matchmaking experiences suffer because player populations are being syphoned from better options. Match quality for everyone suffers as a result of the lower population
Yeah, very hard to find a raid group for the complete novice. I'm new to this whole mmo raid thing.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Glad you know better than I how to enjoy a game.
The whole premise of Trials is premade fireteams going for the ultimate PVP reward, where does random matchmaking fit in that idea?
the argument being made for trials matchmaking is questionable. "league and overwatch and every other game ever have competitive matchmaking though." not to the same degree, they don't. trials is a series of games and there's nothing comparable at all in league or overwatch. if you could queue up for your entire division promotion series in league solo queue with the same 5 players, that'd be different, but you can't. ranked 5's in league have a different queue pool from solo and flex.
in regards to the raid, the argument against it is the fact that a single poor random matchmade raid experience could likely turn someone off of raiding permanently, where as guided games has a SIGNIFICANTLY lower chance of that. people linking the in game wow LFG tool and saying that's matchmaking are actually just being intentionally misleading to try and make a case for it, too. destiny's companion app HAS the same LFG tool that wow does, and i don't think anyone would be opposed to having that in the game at all. truly random raid matchmaking does not exist in wow, and lfr isn't the case you want to make. if bungie wants to implement lfr tourist mode so even the most uncoordinated random group can stomp through without much hassle, that would be fine, but they'd likely do that at the cost of rewards, so people would be upset about that too. "lower level gear" rewards like lfr rewards in wow wouldn't work either because of the way infusion works. yes, some of the allure of having raid gear is the prestige and accomplishment behind it, and that would detract from that.
nightfall can have random matchmaking, though, imo. prestige likely not, but normie nightfall isn't so far removed from the heroic strike playlist from before so if people wanna slam their dicks into that with randoms then let them
in regards to the raid, the argument against it is the fact that a single poor random matchmade raid experience could likely turn someone off of raiding permanently, where as guided games has a SIGNIFICANTLY lower chance of that. people linking the in game wow LFG tool and saying that's matchmaking are actually just being intentionally misleading to try and make a case for it, too. destiny's companion app HAS the same LFG tool that wow does, and i don't think anyone would be opposed to having that in the game at all. truly random raid matchmaking does not exist in wow, and lfr isn't the case you want to make. if bungie wants to implement lfr tourist mode so even the most uncoordinated random group can stomp through without much hassle, that would be fine, but they'd likely do that at the cost of rewards, so people would be upset about that too. "lower level gear" rewards like lfr rewards in wow wouldn't work either because of the way infusion works. yes, some of the allure of having raid gear is the prestige and accomplishment behind it, and that would detract from that.
nightfall can have random matchmaking, though, imo. prestige likely not, but normie nightfall isn't so far removed from the heroic strike playlist from before so if people wanna slam their dicks into that with randoms then let them
Pretty much. WoW is a good example of what can go wrong.
Idle Storm
Member
The people that say they can accomplish the raid without a mic, bullshit. You cannot. you simply cannot. The final boss of the raid sees 3 of the 6 players each seeing a symbol. ONLY that individual player can see that symbol, and they need to tell the other 3 which symbol they have. Say you want to be one of the other 3 who don't need to shout the symbols, how will you express to your team that you will take on that role instead?
Or in the section prior to that boss when all 6 of you are running through the speed-run/jump puzzle in gauntlet, and there are exactly 6 holes out of 9 that you can jump through, how will you call out to your team which hole you will take? You will simply jump in a hole getting yourself or a teammate killed.
Nightfalls, sure, matchmaking will work fine for. Raids, however, will not. Guided games will work, but only if players have a mic. If you don't have a mic, don't play raids. It's 2017, get a mic and communicate if you want to do a communicative mechanic in a game.
Or in the section prior to that boss when all 6 of you are running through the speed-run/jump puzzle in gauntlet, and there are exactly 6 holes out of 9 that you can jump through, how will you call out to your team which hole you will take? You will simply jump in a hole getting yourself or a teammate killed.
Nightfalls, sure, matchmaking will work fine for. Raids, however, will not. Guided games will work, but only if players have a mic. If you don't have a mic, don't play raids. It's 2017, get a mic and communicate if you want to do a communicative mechanic in a game.
Fuck loads of people cleared Nightfall and Raids in D1 using "manual" matchmaking. Sites/apps to look for games and play with random teams.
It was always a stupid decision in D1, one that the commmnity built work arounds to, performing matchmaking outside of the game. There is no valid reason to not have this functionality in game. Even if you don't have automatic matchmaking but can search for groups in the UI or tower. But you still have to use external web sites or apps to do this, due to Bungie's stubbornness.
No, what they should do is expand Guided games to Prestige NFs and Raids.
Art Vandilay
Member
I'm not sure if it's been discussed, but LFG on Xbox seems to be extremely popular. I highly recommend it to anyone looking for a group who doesn't want to pull out their phone or laptop. I realize it's not relevant to the discussion of why features are/aren't included in game, but it's very effective.
texhnolyze
Banned
I don't mind interacting with others, it's an online game after all.
But I don't play online games with my friends anymore.
This sounds good. Hopefully the tickets will be easy to obtain later.
Dont need any tickets later once it goes live on the 26th. The tickets are just for beta. You can matchmake freely then for nightfalls and raids