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[Two Words]

There is something very misleading about how all of Destiny's demos and commercials heavily focused on chatting with players and socializing compared to the actual game.

 

[Norns]

Look at the strengths of the shooter genre, and the typical strategies that a shooter player will learn over the course of the game. Positioning. Flanking. Aim.

None of these things are at play with a typical MMO boss. It's just a bullet sponge gear check.

A raid, in a shooter, should be against a strike squad of highly specialized opponents that take coordination and strategy to defeat, alongside a ton of normal enemies.

I mean, that isn't feasible because a shooter boss requires really good AI, and we all know that Bungie is too lazy for that shit.

No, these bosses aren't bullet sponge gear checks. Seems like you're talking without any actual insight on these encounters.

 

[WickedLaharl]

Opinions are great, aren't they?


In order to accommodate LFR, the fundamental design of WoW's raids changed, and arguably, they became universally worse for it. There are some mechanics that you can't dumb down, and so it becomes an issue of catering to the lowest common denominator, and before you know it we end up with a bunch of raid bosses just like the ones in the Strikes.


That's great! Then why are you here? If you're all grown up, why does 0.05% of the game concern you SO MUCH?


I'm not going to disagree. There are definitely some things missing, especially at endgame.




Nobody expects you to invest 35 hours in a week. The raid is going to be in the game presumably forever. You have until Destiny 2 to do it, so what's the rush?


Spoken like someone who's never even tried. There are plenty of dedicated people on 4chan, whatever your perception of the overall site might be. In fact, I've played far, far, far more difficult games with people from 4chan than Destiny could ever hope to be.


I usually hate when people jump to accusations of entitlement, but this is the perfect example. You can't do it with minimal investment and effort, so it isn't fair, and so instead of doing something about it and finding people to play with and working on your gear, you go online to cross your arms and cry about it instead.


The tears from the people in this thread, maybe.

I wish to fill a swimming pool with them, and then bathe in them daily.

Why are you so angry about players having more options

An irrational fear of dumbing down content because of MM is hilarious.

 

[Etnos]

That must be why Blizzard is inundated with new subscribers, just bursting at the seams with new players waiting to do the amazing endgame...

I can see you like twisting up reality. WOW still has a larger online comunity of PAYING costumers than most online games out there. After 10 years on the market, I would call that a feat. Sorry WOW is not that hardcore for players like you, in the other hand that probably just makes the game better so...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

All of this. This is basic shit that should already be there even BEFORE you open the can of worms that is matchmaking. I seriously would like to know why it's not and if they plan on patching it in eventually.

It's going to hurt the long-term viability of the game almost certainly.

An MMO with all of the trappings but none of the social interaction. What a crazy idea (if that was their idea). I hope they clarify their intent sometime soon.

 

[Coffee Dog]

No, these bosses aren't bullet sponge gear checks. Seems like you're talking without any actual insight on these encounters.

I'm watching it right now.

There's no strategy at play here beyond "Stay out of the fire" tier MMO hazards. It looks criminally boring. Also: It has an enrage timer. Whether you like it or not, that makes it a gear check.

 

[Norns]

I'm watching it right now.

There's no strategy at play here beyond "Stay out of the fire" tier MMO hazards. It looks criminally boring.

Alright dude, whatever you say.

 

[Netherscourge]

But Bungie definitely isn't merged with MS, but they sent over some guys to do technical work. Why wouldn't Bungie think to consult with the leading MMO company about the elements they were borrowing from MMOs?

Yea, but Microsoft owned Halo. Activision does not own Destiny. (So far as I know anyway)

And Blizzard operates battlenet and the WoW server farms themselves, not Activision.


I don't know the exact details of this stuff, obviously, but I know it's not a simple case of letting Bungie borrow Blizzard's netcoders.

There are contracts involved. And Acti-Blizzard is still technically competing with Bungie for MMO market share. Destiny probably took some WoW subs away from Blizzard. Mike Morhaime and Chris Metzen probably aren't feeling gleeful about that even though they are all "Activision buddies" now.

Likewise, Warlords of Draenor will probably pull people out of Destiny and back to WoW in November.

Bobby Kotick doesn't give a damn so long as the money just rolls into Activision. lol

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Alright dude, whatever you say.

Well, why not talk about some of the mechanics you find interesting? You said he was ignoring them. What are they?

 

[Lucent]

6 level 26+ characters, 14 hours. Yep, I will never be playing a second of a raid despite really enjoying this game.

What stream was this from? 14 hours? The hell?

 

[VinFTW]

That must be why Blizzard is inundated with new subscribers, just bursting at the seams with new players waiting to do the amazing endgame...

Oh wait.

Have you actually raided any heroics for the entirety of MoP? Easily the best raid bosses in WoW's history. Lei'Shen, Dark Animus, Siegecrafter, Garrosh, WotE, Empress, etc.

All incredible bosses. MoP has some of the best bosses easily in WoW (if you do heroics and race for top US or world rankings, which, judging by your comment, I doubt you've done the heroics at all).

The subscribers are just a product of bad PvP and quest/daily design mixed with the longest downtime between expansions since WotLK.

Their loss of subscribers has NOTHING to do with the quality of bosses/heroic bosses.

 

[Nasbin]

I'm watching it right now.

There's no strategy at play here beyond "Stay out of the fire" tier MMO hazards.

Is this what cognitive dissonance looks like in written form?

 

[GuitarAtomik]

It's going to hurt the long-term viability of the game almost certainly.

An MMO with all of the trappings but none of the social interaction. What a crazy idea (if that was their idea). I hope they clarify their intent sometime soon.

I just hope it's not part of their "philosophy/vision" and instead something they just didn't have time to implement.

 

[shem935]

Are the raids just always available after they launch or are they going to cycle through them and take old ones down?

 

[Norns]

Well, why not talk about some of the mechanics you find interesting? You said he was ignoring them. What are they?

Cleanses, blinds, phase switches, point protection. To name just a few.

 

[Brazil]

6 level 26+ characters, 14 hours. Yep, I will never be playing a second of a raid despite really enjoying this game.

lol

Try brute-forcing new raids on WoW day one and get back to me.

This is content meant to be played throughout the week, not in a single sitting.

 

[ethomaz]

Guys,

The Raid OT thread was created... so these like me that wants to talk about the Raid itself and don't hate this amazing game go there.

Thanks everybody.

 

[SPACECADET]

damn i wanna play the raid, but i just hit 20 last night so i wouldn't fair well. going to keep grinding.

 

[marianitten]

Why are you so angry about players having more options

"Elitist" players think that LFR made WoW raids easier. Even without consider that WoW is a 10 years old game, subs were already flying, and Cataclysm was a clusterfuck.

 

[CLBridges]

I tried the raid before going to bed and I must say I had some fun. I haven't watched any streams yet but from some posts I've read, groups are still going from 2am PST, that's crazy. I thought I was going pretty hard with this game but I guess world first is important to a lot of players and that's cool.

Also, I wouldn't see a problem with Bungie adding match-making for this. More options in gaming are something I never see a negative. But, I hope folks are prepared for dealing with some of the BS that comes with random groups with hard content (disconnects, trolls etc.)

Oh, and for the last time Bungie, implement some more chat options. I realize I'm beating a dead horse so I'll stop there lol.

 

[dubq]

The fact that a game that requires playing with other players actually has no way for you to play with other in game players unless you are friends with them is just plain bad design

I like the idea of encouraging you to play with friends, but it feels really limited to not even offer a matchmaking service for the raid. I mean really, what does Bungie lose by doing this? That we're not playing the game they want us to? Matchmaking is available for Strikes, I don't see why it shouldn't be available for this..

 

[Coffee Dog]

Cleanses, blinds, phase switches, point protection. To name just a few.

Yeah, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. I've played WoW for a while and that stuff was as boring to me there as it is here.

 

[Cru]

Guys,

The Raid OT thread was created... so these like me that wants to talk about the Raid itself and don't hate this amazing game go there.

Thanks everybody.

lmao

 

[CosmicQueso]

Lol, you know that randoms become non-random once you play with them for a while? Way to completely cut up my post to make it fit your narrative though.

So I'm not supposed to find randoms at the Tower? Or wait, I am?

And who has a narrative? I have the game, I enjoy it, I just don't have 6 friends that play. So I guess I'm locked out of this content unless I make more friends? And that makes sense to you? Talk about having a "narrative" whatever that is supposed to mean.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Really? Here's my observations at a glance from the Datto stream

Main boss teleports 3 farthers players into either the past or future area, people still with the boss will need to open the portal back to the boss while fending off the kamikaze adds that spawn. The three teleported in need to have one member pick up the relic shield. While in the past/future they must destroy each of these oracles that appears or get wiped instantly while also dealing with a small group of enemies there. While also in the past/future they have a lingering debuff that slowly makes their screen go blind unless cleansed from an ability used by the relic shield holder. Once all oracles are destroyed the whole team gets a buff that makes them do massive damage to the boss turning him into a beatable enemy rather than just a bullet sponge. All of this on an overall encounter timer on which the boss will enrage and wipe the group.

The tuned downed version of the raid are called strikes.

Sweet! What the hell was the guy you responded to watching. That sounds great.

 

[Norns]

Yeah, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. I've played WoW for a while and that stuff was as boring to me there as it is here.

Okay?

But you said the encounters were just bullet sponge gear checks. They aren't.

 

[VinFTW]

Okay?

But you said the encounters were just bullet sponge gear checks. They aren't.

When you have a damage buff mechanic that is activated by completing other mechanics and all of the groups (which I've seen on Twitch) are still wiping to enrage w/ said dmg buff from said mechanics, it's pretty much a gear check fight.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Guys,

The Raid OT thread was created... so these like me that wants to talk about the Raid itself and don't hate this amazing game go there.

Thanks everybody.

Shouldn't that be the Raid CJ thread?

 

[Norns]

When you have a damage buff mechanic that is activated by completing other mechanics and all of the groups (which I've seen on Twitch) are still wiping to enrage w/ said dmg buff from said mechanics, it's pretty much a gear check fight.

Or, the raid has been out less than 24 hours and people might need to work on srats.

 

[Serick]

Really? Here's my observations at a glance from the Datto stream

Main boss teleports 3 farthers players into either the past or future area, people still with the boss will need to open the portal back to the boss while fending off the kamikaze adds that spawn. The three teleported in need to have one member pick up the relic shield. While in the past/future they must destroy each of these oracles that appears or get wiped instantly while also dealing with a small group of enemies there. While also in the past/future they have a lingering debuff that slowly makes their screen go blind unless cleansed from an ability used by the relic shield holder. Once all oracles are destroyed the whole team gets a buff that makes them do massive damage to the boss turning him into a beatable enemy rather than just a bullet sponge. All of this on an overall encounter timer on which the boss will enrage and wipe the group.

The tuned downed version of the raid are called strikes.

Yeah, people saying the raids are just bullet sponge pillar dances don't actually know what they're talking about. The encounter design on boss 2 is pretty incredible for the first raid/easiest difficulty.

 

[Definity]

So has the datto stream been on the same boss now for 7 hours or just playing for a total of 7 hours?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Guys,

The Raid OT thread was created... so these like me that wants to talk about the Raid itself and don't hate this amazing game go there.

Thanks everybody.

So lame that we need two threads for everything because people get so offended by criticism. No ones stopping anyone from talking about the raid here. I don't want to have to follow two threads.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Okay?

But you said the encounters were just bullet sponge gear checks. They aren't.

Enrage timers are gear checks. The only reason the enrage timer is even a game mechanic is to enforce that the players kill it quickly, and that means it requires better gear.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Really? Here's my observations at a glance from the Datto stream

Main boss teleports 3 farthers players into either the past or future area, people still with the boss will need to open the portal back to the boss while fending off the kamikaze adds that spawn. The three teleported in need to have one member pick up the relic shield. While in the past/future they must destroy each of these oracles that appears or get wiped instantly while also dealing with a small group of enemies there. While also in the past/future they have a lingering debuff that slowly makes their screen go blind unless cleansed from an ability used by the relic shield holder. Once all oracles are destroyed the whole team gets a buff that makes them do massive damage to the boss turning him into a beatable enemy rather than just a bullet sponge. All of this on an overall encounter timer on which the boss will enrage and wipe the group.

The tuned downed version of the raid are called strikes.

Thank you.

 

[benjammin]

I tried the raid before going to bed and I must say I had some fun. I haven't watched any streams yet but from some posts I've read, groups are still going from 2am PST, that's crazy. I thought I was going pretty hard with this game but I guess world first is important to a lot of players and that's cool.

Also, I wouldn't see a problem with Bungie adding match-making for this. More options in gaming are something I never see a negative. But, I hope folks are prepared for dealing with some of the BS that comes with random groups with hard content (disconnects, trolls etc.)

Oh, and for the last time Bungie, implement some more chat options. I realize I'm beating a dead horse so I'll stop there lol.

I'll happily put up with some of the occasional negatives that come along with match making in this case. Otherwise I won't even get a chance to try the raids.

 

[speculawyer]

Cleanses, blinds, phase switches, point protection. To name just a few.

That sounds like a spa treatment.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Really? Here's my observations at a glance from the Datto stream

Main boss teleports 3 farthers players into either the past or future area, people still with the boss will need to open the portal back to the boss while fending off the kamikaze adds that spawn. The three teleported in need to have one member pick up the relic shield. While in the past/future they must destroy each of these oracles that appears or get wiped instantly while also dealing with a small group of enemies there. While also in the past/future they have a lingering debuff that slowly makes their screen go blind unless cleansed from an ability used by the relic shield holder. Once all oracles are destroyed the whole team gets a buff that makes them do massive damage to the boss turning him into a beatable enemy rather than just a bullet sponge. All of this on an overall encounter timer on which the boss will enrage and wipe the group.

The tuned downed version of the raid are called strikes.

But the strikes are simplistic and repetitive. Toning down the difficulty doesn't necessitate stripping away all of the interesting mechanics.

 

[MaximusPayne]

^ What this thread has turned into...

 

[VinFTW]

Or, the raid has been out less than 24 hours and people might need to work on srats.

Naw, I've raided for US firsts/world first enough to know that you should never underestimate people and forming strategies. It's a gear check thing right now. Bungie designed an encounter impossible numerically.

Sort of like pre-nerf Heroic Spine. Blizzard purposely made Heroic Spine impossible to extend heroic raiding/race for world first by a week.

 

[domstah]

It seems so strange to focus the end game around hardcore raiding when even MMOs are moving away from that. I watched a stream earlier, and it seemed like the high level streamers were having fun with it at least - until that weird Oracle/Time Travel bit any way.

I've done my time raiding on WoW and I do not look back on it fondly - I wont be doing any raids, don't have the friends who want to play it to that level, don't have the inclination to study the fights, and frankly there are better things to spend my time on.

I am interested in how Destiny will evolve though - the SP content is lacking in variety and narrative, the MP is fun in short bursts but needs some balancing, and the lack of social tools is easily an area where Bungie could add some new features with the DLC patches. In fact, all these are things that Bungie could address with "free" patches. Wether they will is another story ...

 

[Two Words]

Really? Here's my observations at a glance from the Datto stream

Main boss teleports 3 farthers players into either the past or future area, people still with the boss will need to open the portal back to the boss while fending off the kamikaze adds that spawn. The three teleported in need to have one member pick up the relic shield. While in the past/future they must destroy each of these oracles that appears or get wiped instantly while also dealing with a small group of enemies there. While also in the past/future they have a lingering debuff that slowly makes their screen go blind unless cleansed from an ability used by the relic shield holder. Once all oracles are destroyed the whole team gets a buff that makes them do massive damage to the boss turning him into a beatable enemy rather than just a bullet sponge. All of this on an overall encounter timer on which the boss will enrage and wipe the group.

The tuned downed version of the raid are called strikes.

Here's the problem. Absolutely nothing else in this game is remotely as interesting as that. They've designed it so only the most dedicated groups of people can play the best content in this game, and everybody else gets a shitty story, shitty drops, and shitty bosses.

 

[lol51]

Been watching StreamerHouse and this looks like a miserable experience. You need a full party of 28s and everything has to be executed perfectly since there is cheap instadeath everywhere. Not like one person dies because they made a mistake - everyone wipes because one person makes a mistake.

So This is what it seems like the group has to do in this phase:

• 1 person holds a relic and has to use it every 10 seconds to make sure the attackers dont go blind. If he dies the party wipes. The skill is on a cooldown so if everyone isn't in the AoE when you use it they have to wander around with a black screen.
• The 2 attackers have about 30 seconds to kill 6 balls of light or the party wipes. Meanwhile elite minotaur and hobgoblins attack them.
• After they get the balls of light killed they wait at a teleport gate
• The other 3 party members have to open a teleport gates so the aforementioned party members can return to the fight. While they do this they have to survive 6-9 charging suicidal bots (instakill at lvl 27) and the boss attacking them
• After this you have 20 seconds where the boss is in a weakened phase (takes 4x more damage) before he takes the 3 farthest away party members and teleports them away.
• If you take too long the boss becomes enraged

Maybe there is a missing tactic they are not understanding. It looks to me that this is really unbalanced and has an extreme spike in difficulty to give the 'Destiny has no content' people a wall to keep slamming their heads into.

 

[ultron87]

Another reason there can't be matchmaking for raids is that you have no recourse in Matchmaking for someone being counterproductive in the current system. You can't kick them. You can't start a vote to kick them. You can't even yell at them. If by some miracle they get bored or disconnected after sitting there AFK for 20 minutes you can't press a button to request a new party member. You're just at the whims of the Matchmaking hopper deigning you worthy of having a full team to attempt the boss.

 

[ethomaz]

So lame that we need two threads for everything because people get so offended by criticism. No ones stopping anyone from talking about the raid here. I don't want to have to follow two threads.

It is impossible to talk about the Raid here... I did grind over 10 pages here and didn't find any impression, strategy, info about the Raid... just Matchmaking, Chat, no friends, etc.

To be fair I would like us to have a big "Destiny issues" thread while this thread could be to discuss the Raid itself.

It can be hard to understand but people are really enjoying the game... and these that don't like it just play other game.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

OMG!! FUCKING RNG!

Just watched a guy with a 0.6 kd get an exotic fusion rifle while me on the top with a 5 KD, got NOTHING. I am FURIOUS

 

[PhatSaqs]

So lame that we need two threads for everything because people get so offended by criticism. No ones stopping anyone from talking about the raid here. I don't want to have to follow two threads.

Well there are people that actually want to discuss things like the mechanics of the raid and such and creating fireteams that doesnt invite or require the criticism that's going on up in here. It's like trying to have a party in the middle of a shootout.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Enrage mechanics are the worst.

OMG!! FUCKING RNG!

Just watched a guy with a 0.6 kd get an exotic fusion rifle while me on the top with a 5 KD, got NOTHING. I am FURIOUS

Wrong thread, but I don't think anything you do in PvP really matters when it comes to rewards.

 

[Despera]

OMG!! FUCKING RNG!

Just watched a guy with a 0.6 kd get an exotic fusion rifle while me on the top with a 5 KD, got NOTHING. I am FURIOUS

Wrong thread?

OT is over there good sir :3

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Well there are people that actually want to discuss things like the mechanics of the raid and such and creating fireteams that doesnt invite or require the criticism that's going on up in here. It's like trying to have a party in the middle of a shootout.

I want to read that discussion too which has been happening here, as well as the criticisms. Now I have to follow two threads to do that. It's easy enough to ignore posts you don't like. Not that bothered in this specific case but it's getting annoying how we keep ending up with separate positivity and negativity threads for games.

 

[shadowstar]

I'm confused by all the bullet sponge people. Have you ever played an mmo and fought a high end boss?

WoW high end bosses were never bullet/sword/magic sponges. Heck MMO raids often have enrage timers.