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[Deleted member 22576]

This is so fucked.

 

[EekTheKat]

Somehow I suspect somebody is already cooking up the Destiny version of OpenRaid, for people who can't find enough people to attempt a raid.

(People can just enter a few bits of info to find at people on the same page in the same time zone.)

It would still be a pain in the ass from not being integrated in game, but it would at least get some like minded people on the same time zone/schedule on the same page at least without having to commit ahead of time to scheduled weekly raids.

Personally, I hate the idea of entering personal info in a 3rd party website just so I can properly match up with players on my own schedule - it really should be something properly handled by Bungie themselves.

 

[bidguy]

Kind of an off-topic question but will games like Destiny and The Division be worth buying if you have no friends in real life with whom to play them with?

i dont see why you couldnt play solo, unless there is some sort of bs artificial difficulty to force coop

 

[GhaleonEB]

In Halo: ODST, the co-op Firefight mode did not support matchmaking. They claimed technical limitations, but then said it wasn't worth dedicating resources to because co-op is meant to be played with friends.

To be specific, it was largely the networking tech. If one player left, the game ended. That, and the mode could run for hours with a good team. As designed it wasn't suitable for matchmaking and the project didn't have the resources to add it.

 

[syko de4d]

I still cant find an answer... does Destiny use some kind of Raid ID system or can you farm the raid as much as you want?

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I understand everyone's frustration about the decision to not have matchmaking in a post-matchmaking world. I also understand the limitations that this places on the activity's adoption at scale.

That barrier to entry - the requirement that you get a group of people together and venture into something that is going to challenge your ability to work together (first) and your thumbs (second) - is a barrier I was willing to erect to preserve the activity goals.

Bleeding edge hardcore groups will invest some significant amount of time in figuring out the encounters and making their way through the Vault.

I fully expect groups to beat Normal mode in the first week its available.

• This is intentional, I'd like any group that is motivated and willing to cooperate to make their way through the Raid on Normal. I've talked some about thumbskill challenge vs. investment challenge vs. cooperation challenge in some interviews, and the Normal Raid difficulty prioritizes cooperation challenge and investment challenge.

I expect Hard mode to take longer.
Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than 3 hours.

However, the first time through, learning everything and arranging your group will take some hard-to-predict amount of time until some clan releases their strategies on YouTube.

The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it. It's very much a team-building exercise.

If you're going to stream it this Fall, please feel free to let me know here. I'd love to tune in.

Thanks Luke!

 

[Moral Panic]

This whole thing makes no sense. So essentially, if you have no friends to raid with, you're meant to go around and find 5 strangers online willing to raid with you? How is that different from meeting five strangers via the matchmaking function? You'll just be doing the process manually instead of the game doing it for you. What a waste of time.

This.

What a terrible idea. If the the content is too difficult for randoms then put a message saying it is difficult. Put it behind a password for all I care. I just don't see who I have to do the work to get other random people to join my game when matchmaking exists.

 

[GECK]

Neither a strike nor a PvP match requires a time commitment upwards of several hours.

Yes, but those risks he mentioned still exists. There would be a lot less people playing pvp if there was no random matching. But that isn't the point.

It's been proven that a LFR system works and plenty of studios have made the mistake of not including such a feature. It's baffling that Bungie would make the same mistake in 2014. Even more baffling that people are against such a feature because *reasons* when it would not affect them whatsoever in any way if they so choose.

 

[KiraXD]

They take multiple hours? Goddamn. Random parties will just end in failure either way.

Netherlands-DGAF strike team, unite!

PrimaryGAF im looking your way....

 

[WinFonda]

This seems like a bad idea for multiple reasons.

Destiny doesn't have an intrinsic way of communicating with other players. No chat, nothing. So connecting with other people, coordinating, or looking for teammates is rather difficult. If you have no Destiny friends, or if you have only a couple Destiny friends, it can be a chore making more. You basically have to have random people accept your random friend requests. And if we've reached that point, why not just have matchmaking?

This seems unnecessarily elitist and exclusionary. Random teams of people could handle normal difficulty, maybe not every matchmade team could beat it, but some teams could. Not only does it let more people see the content, it enriches the community. More matchmaking = more ways to make new Destiny friends. If Destiny is going to be this insular in its approach to a mainstay of its content, then I'll have to reconsider.

 

[Victrix]

LFR is full of idiots and assholes though, saying that is not really condescension as much as fact for anyone that's ever done LFR.

1 or 2 wipes normally causes people to begin yelling insults at each other, leaving because "you guys fucking sucks, shit dps, healers are shit, tanks have shit gear fuck this" etc etc.

I will bet you that most people that do LFR, do it not because they think it's fun to be stuck in a raid full of people who play like they are actively trying to suck. But because LFR is the fastests and easiest way of acquiring gear for alts.

You'd lose that bet. Many of my friends are now married with children. LFR is the only way they can experience raid content, and they (universally) enjoyed it and were happy it existed as an option.

Blizzard themselves have said that LFR is hugely popular. You really think the majority of those players are doing LFR 'to gear alts'?

Not only that, LFR competency (it exists!) slowly bleeds into the player base as knowledge about raid mechanics, acting as a stepping stone to higher difficulty tiers.

Putting up barriers to earning that knowledge in the first place severely cuts down on the number of people who experience the content, learn the content, or progress to greater difficulty levels.

Some people never do, but they appreciate the option to see the content in the first place.

WoW already went down this path. They started with exclusive, difficult, time consuming 40 man raids. They dropped to 25. To 15. To 10. They nerfed difficulty. Then they reversed course, and now we have LFR, Flex, and higher difficulty tiers - something for everyone.

It's especially bizarre to see matchmaking removed here when it already exists.

Would Crucible be improved if there was no matchmaking for 6 man fireteams? Yes or no?

Seems like an absurd question doesn't it?

Tell me the difference between in-game random matchmaking and me putting together a group of 5 players I've never played with from the GAF/<insert forum community here> clan list?

 

[Karl Hawk]

I understand everyone's frustration about the decision to not have matchmaking in a post-matchmaking world. I also understand the limitations that this places on the activity's adoption at scale.

That barrier to entry - the requirement that you get a group of people together and venture into something that is going to challenge your ability to work together (first) and your thumbs (second) - is a barrier I was willing to erect to preserve the activity goals.

Bleeding edge hardcore groups will invest some significant amount of time in figuring out the encounters and making their way through the Vault.

I fully expect groups to beat Normal mode in the first week its available.

• This is intentional, I'd like any group that is motivated and willing to cooperate to make their way through the Raid on Normal. I've talked some about thumbskill challenge vs. investment challenge vs. cooperation challenge in some interviews, and the Normal Raid difficulty prioritizes cooperation challenge and investment challenge.

I expect Hard mode to take longer.
Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than 3 hours.

However, the first time through, learning everything and arranging your group will take some hard-to-predict amount of time until some clan releases their strategies on YouTube.

The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it. It's very much a team-building exercise.

If you're going to stream it this Fall, please feel free to let me know here. I'd love to tune in.

Reposting for new page.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Another benefit of matchmaking is maybe you have 3 or 4 people and just need to fill out the rest of the group. When I did raiding in MMORPGs that was a pretty regular occurrence and we'd recruit randoms to come fill out the group. Even if they weren't the best, they still contributed something while our core group did the "heavy lifting".

Having to sit out the entire night because a few people were busy and couldn't make it was the worst.

I don't really feel like that's a benefit of matchmaking at all really because your group gets no quality control in matchmaking. This is where I believe the legitimate problem lies within Destiny in that it's not very easy to manually put together groups.

An easier, in-game, way to recruit people for Raids, Nightfall, and Hard Mode Strikes would be better than random matchmaking imo. Some way to talk to people before hand so that each person can be clear on expectations, experience level, and goals before hand. This would still cause the Elitist exclusion problem that many games see, but that's extremely hard to avoid in any kind of game with a difficult endgame.

It's pretty clear that Bungie.net has been designed in hopes of providing some kind of tool for that but it's inconvenient in that it requires a second screen (either PC, Tablet, or Mobile Device) and that alone makes it fairly unwieldy for the average player. If something needs to be looked at, that would be it I think.

 

[NullPointer]

This seems unnecessarily elitist and exclusionary. Random teams of people could handle normal difficulty, maybe not every matchmade team could beat it, but some teams could. Not only does it let more people see the content, it enriches the community. More matchmaking = more ways to make new Destiny friends. If Destiny is going to be this insular in its approach to a mainstay of its content, then I'll have to reconsider.

Well said.

 

[Twilight Gap]

I understand everyone's frustration about the decision to not have matchmaking in a post-matchmaking world. I also understand the limitations that this places on the activity's adoption at scale.

That barrier to entry - the requirement that you get a group of people together and venture into something that is going to challenge your ability to work together (first) and your thumbs (second) - is a barrier I was willing to erect to preserve the activity goals.

Bleeding edge hardcore groups will invest some significant amount of time in figuring out the encounters and making their way through the Vault.

I fully expect groups to beat Normal mode in the first week its available.

• This is intentional, I'd like any group that is motivated and willing to cooperate to make their way through the Raid on Normal. I've talked some about thumbskill challenge vs. investment challenge vs. cooperation challenge in some interviews, and the Normal Raid difficulty prioritizes cooperation challenge and investment challenge.

I expect Hard mode to take longer.
Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than 3 hours.

However, the first time through, learning everything and arranging your group will take some hard-to-predict amount of time until some clan releases their strategies on YouTube.

The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it. It's very much a team-building exercise.

If you're going to stream it this Fall, please feel free to let me know here. I'd love to tune in.

You guys have taken a really firm stance on this, so it'll interesting to see just how much coordination these things require. My question thus is about whether the internal discussions have lead to a possible reconsideration on your stance on proximity chat or other communication options. Or, is it possible that there are plans to further integrate clan features in-game and improve the seamlessness of Fireteam joining? Because I think these things are what will impose limitations moreso than a lack of matchmaking, and they affect more than just raids. In the alpha and beta, joining a player in the wild was a bit of a hassle.

 

[Peanut Butter]

I get what Bungie is trying to do, but I don't like it at all. People should have the option to search for a party if they don't have a group of friends to play with.

 

[Flintty]

Lol at the moans. This is the best way forward for raids. If you disagree, go play WoW raid finder. It takes the fun out of it. Raids should be team orientated and clan progression is great fun.

 

[Balmung421]

That barrier to entry - the requirement that you get a group of people together and venture into something that is going to challenge your ability to work together (first) and your thumbs (second) - is a barrier I was willing to erect to preserve the activity goals.

This can be easily done with strangers met through matchmaking. Would be something to look forward to when logging on, especially if you can only grab a group of 4 from your friends/clan and need 2 more people.

 

[bidguy]

Lol at the moans. This is the best way forward for raids. If you disagree, go play WoW raid finder. It takes the fun out of it. Raids should be team orientated and clan progression is great fun.

no its not

how are more choices a bad thing ? people who dont have time to coordinate with friends could just jump in and at least attempt these so called impossible missions

 

[Dubz]

Taking away options for players is never good. Bungie may disagree philosophically with randoms going into a raid, but let the player chose his/her own fate.

 

[Peanut Butter]

Lol at the moans. This is the best way forward for raids. If you disagree, go play WoW raid finder. It takes the fun out of it. Raids should be team orientated and clan progression is great fun.

But what if you don't have a clan/team?

As someone who has played WoW since 2004 and was a dedicated raider, I love the aspect of what Blizzard has done with LFR. There are so many people who finally got to experience raiding even though it is with strangers. I have done LFRs on alts, and I've enjoyed it.

 

[Sevyne]

Lol at the moans. This is the best way forward for raids. If you disagree, go play WoW raid finder. It takes the fun out of it. Raids should be team orientated and clan progression is great fun.

Not sure how letting other people use matchmaking "takes the fun out of it". Sure, those groups are much more likely to fail, but how does that have any impact on your personal enjoyment of the game?

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

A difficult challenge for those that are expected to cooperate with one another? Yeah, this would be nothing like searching alone in Big Team Battle.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Would Crucible be improved if there was no matchmaking for 6 man fireteams? Yes or no?

Normal Crucible is a casual PvP activity. Akin to Normal level Strikes. A PvP equivalent to Raiding would be something like a Ranked PvP mode where teams above a certain performance level get guaranteed loot rewards. And allowing a Matchmaking mode to such a PvP activity would be terrible as the random teams would get slaughtered and never really succeed while the organized teams get fed free ranking.

Tell me the difference between in-game random matchmaking and me putting together a group of 5 players I've never played with from the GAF/<insert forum community here> clan list?

Because you can be certain that GAF members have a specific level of investment. You can actively write out what it is that you're looking for in a post and receive replies based on those specifications. If you were to get randomly matchmade with people.. you have no idea of their level of skill, commitment, maturity, or their goals. GAF is a community of avid gamers. We are Enthusiast level players, even if some of us aren't as skilled as others. A completely open pool of players to matchmake will be filled with people varying wildly from extreme casual who doesn't realize was a Raid even is all the way through to Hardcore. However most players will skew towards Casual as that's the bulk of players in nearly every game.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

I understand everyone's frustration about the decision to not have matchmaking in a post-matchmaking world. I also understand the limitations that this places on the activity's adoption at scale.

That barrier to entry - the requirement that you get a group of people together and venture into something that is going to challenge your ability to work together (first) and your thumbs (second) - is a barrier I was willing to erect to preserve the activity goals.

Bleeding edge hardcore groups will invest some significant amount of time in figuring out the encounters and making their way through the Vault.

I fully expect groups to beat Normal mode in the first week its available.

• This is intentional, I'd like any group that is motivated and willing to cooperate to make their way through the Raid on Normal. I've talked some about thumbskill challenge vs. investment challenge vs. cooperation challenge in some interviews, and the Normal Raid difficulty prioritizes cooperation challenge and investment challenge.

I expect Hard mode to take longer.
Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than 3 hours.

However, the first time through, learning everything and arranging your group will take some hard-to-predict amount of time until some clan releases their strategies on YouTube.

The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it. It's very much a team-building exercise.

If you're going to stream it this Fall, please feel free to let me know here. I'd love to tune in.

I guess it's hard to grasp what to expect from a FPS MMO when you say "cooperation challenge."

I'm having visions of six people hopping on individual platforms that all disappear one second after anybody steps on one. Anybody that jumps even a smidgen off sync with the rest of the group spells doom for the rest.

 

[frequency]

If Bungie's stance is, "too bad for you, we want to preserve the activity goals" then I guess eventually my stance may become, "too bad for you, I want to play a game that isn't hostile to me for not having 5 people ready to play all the time."

I don't really feel like that's a benefit of matchmaking at all really because your group gets no quality control in matchmaking. This is where I believe the legitimate problem lies within Destiny in that it's not very easy to manually put together groups.

An easier, in-game, way to recruit people for Raids, Nightfall, and Hard Mode Strikes would be better than random matchmaking imo. Some way to talk to people before hand so that each person can be clear on expectations, experience level, and goals before hand. This would still cause the Elitist exclusion problem that many games see, but that's extremely hard to avoid in any kind of game with a difficult endgame.

It's pretty clear that Bungie.net has been designed in hopes of providing some kind of tool for that but it's inconvenient in that it requires a second screen (either PC, Tablet, or Mobile Device) and that alone makes it fairly unwieldy for the average player. If something needs to be looked at, that would be it I think.

We're often confident enough in our group that just having a few warm bodies to fill out the empty spots is all we want and need to get it done. And sometimes, those randoms turn out to be really good and we look to recruit them into the guild/whatever. Great way to find new friends.

But yes, since there is no way to recruit in game, match making is all there is. We can't sit there and recruit through chat because there is no chat. And even if there was, you have a max pool of 16 people to recruit from.........

The way this game is designed, matchmaking is the only way we could get people to fill out a group and get on with the raid. That is the benefit to having matchmaking for raids in Destiny.

 

[Mindlog]

Maybe lacking in regard to MMO's, but for a shooter, which is what it is, it seems pretty damn ambitious.

Maybe Defiance counts as an MMO, but as a shooter its in-game clan management and grouping options were far more comprehensive.

 

[WinFonda]

Would Crucible be improved if there was no matchmaking for 6 man fireteams? Yes or no?

Seems like an absurd question doesn't it?

I like this point too. So what, random players are good enough to face off against full partied fireteams filled with college kids who play the game 24/7 but not good enough to attempt a Raid? Lol.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

As a League of Legends player, you'd be surprised at how well five random people can work together when someone takes command. It can be a total trainwreck of course, but that shouldn't mean a whole game mode is ruled out.

 

[Panthers]

That's awesome. LFR is the worst thing to happen to WoW.

 

[Datto]

I understand everyone's frustration about the decision to not have matchmaking in a post-matchmaking world. I also understand the limitations that this places on the activity's adoption at scale.

That barrier to entry - the requirement that you get a group of people together and venture into something that is going to challenge your ability to work together (first) and your thumbs (second) - is a barrier I was willing to erect to preserve the activity goals.

Bleeding edge hardcore groups will invest some significant amount of time in figuring out the encounters and making their way through the Vault.

I fully expect groups to beat Normal mode in the first week its available.

• This is intentional, I'd like any group that is motivated and willing to cooperate to make their way through the Raid on Normal. I've talked some about thumbskill challenge vs. investment challenge vs. cooperation challenge in some interviews, and the Normal Raid difficulty prioritizes cooperation challenge and investment challenge.

I expect Hard mode to take longer.
Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than 3 hours.

However, the first time through, learning everything and arranging your group will take some hard-to-predict amount of time until some clan releases their strategies on YouTube.

The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it. It's very much a team-building exercise.

If you're going to stream it this Fall, please feel free to let me know here. I'd love to tune in.

I'm very glad there's no matchmaking. If there is matchmaking, then there's plenty of "my teammates always suck" "people keep leaving" "we never get anywhere" and Bungie might have to dumb down content, which would be a bummer to say the least. I don't think people realize that matchmaking in The Devils' Lair is going to be vastly different than Vault of Glass.

I know I'll be part of a group trying to make a world first push, probably streaming it. We'll see what happens.

 

[mcfrank]

I'm very glad there's no matchmaking. If there is matchmaking, then there's plenty of "my teammates always suck" "people keep leaving" "we never get anywhere" and Bungie might have to dumb down content, which would be a bummer to say the least. I don't think people realize that matchmaking in The Devils' Lair is going to be vastly different than Vault of Glass.

I know I'll be part of a group trying to make a world first push, probably streaming it. We'll see what happens.

Ditto. They can always tone down vault of glass and add a matchmaking option once it is not progression content and there is another vault out so that other people can experience it.

 

[Daemul]

As a League of Legends player, you'd be surprised at how well five random people can work together when someone takes command. It can be a total trainwreck of course, but that shouldn't mean a whole game mode is ruled out.

Damn right, in my gaming adventure I've run into some damn good players, most of whom are on my friends list. I have no doubt that there will be groups of randoms who would be able to get the Raid done at the highest difficulty, maybe not as many as organised groups, but enough would be able to do it.

 

[KiraXD]

Somehow I suspect somebody is already cooking up the Destiny version of OpenRaid, for people who can't find enough people to attempt a raid.

(People can just enter a few bits of info to find at people on the same page in the same time zone.)

It would still be a pain in the ass from not being integrated in game, but it would at least get some like minded people on the same time zone/schedule on the same page at least without having to commit ahead of time to scheduled weekly raids.

Personally, I hate the idea of entering personal info in a 3rd party website just so I can properly match up with players on my own schedule - it really should be something properly handled by Bungie themselves.

People in Tower will need a way to /shout LFP - RAID GROUP! send
/t for details!

 

[Trickster]

Not sure how letting other people use matchmaking "takes the fun out of it". Sure, those groups are much more likely to fail, but how does that have any impact on your personal enjoyment of the game?

Creating a matchmaking option would indicate to players that it's something intended to be played by using matchmaking and teaming up with strangers. Which it clearly isnt.

What do you think will happen after Bungie allows matchmaking for the raid, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of players flood into the raid, and 99+% of them get completely wrecked

Do you think they will calmy say "yeah okay, the raid probably shouldn't be attempted with random people". Or do you think they will flood the forums and cry and whine and rage about how bad and broken the raid is?

 

[Afrocious]

This is the best thing I've heard about the game.

 

[Flintty]

But what if you don't have a clan/team?

As someone who has played WoW since 2004 and was a dedicated raider, I love the aspect of what Blizzard has done with LFR. There are so many people who finally got to experience raiding even though it is with strangers. I have done LFRs on alts, and I've enjoyed it.

I agree, RF was good for letting casuals see end game content, this has even worked for me since I stopped proper raiding. The trouble is when you get people who aren't interested in the team coordination and just want an easy ride for loot. When people don't coordinate they will find the content too hard and cry for nerfs. That would be bad for everyone. It may not happen but it is a concern for me.

I get what people are saying about choice though, I just worry about the implications.

 

[Karl Hawk]

Not sure how letting other people use matchmaking "takes the fun out of it". Sure, those groups are much more likely to fail, but how does that have any impact on your personal enjoyment of the game?

Because those people will complain about how the Raid is bad and broken, forcing Bungie's hand to dumb down the difficulty.

I know, I know, they should make a matchmaking system for randoms, but only with the following conditions:
Voice chat should be enabled
Warning message about the Raid's difficulty and it requires teamwork and coordination.
Lower-quality rewards if you play and win with randoms.

 

[ultron87]

Creating a matchmaking option would indicate to players that it's something intended to be played by using matchmaking and teaming up with strangers. Which it clearly isnt.

What do you think will happen after Bungie allows matchmaking for the raid, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of players flood into the raid, and 99+% of them get completely wrecked

Do you think they will calmy say "yeah okay, the raid probably shouldn't be attempted with random people". Or do you think they will flood the forums and cry and whine and rage about how bad and broken the raid is?

Then put a disclaimer it is supposed to be really damn hard and requires teamwork and coordination. People somehow figured out that Legendary difficulty wasn't for everyone and didn't spam the forums to death for the Halo games.

 

[Crosseyes]

This is really quite an interesting thread. The clash of game mindsets of fps and mmo.

I can see where Luke's coming from. If the content is as hard as they claim then it would be not hard, but impossible to complete with randoms without mics. Content that would serve to give people a negative opinion of the community and the game if allowed to attempt to match with randoms without communication that had 0 chance of progressing. People would criticize Bungie.for bad game design if they let that happen.

I think it would be questionable if there was no way to form a like minded fireteam in game, perhaps the reef will serve as that 'lfg' mmo area.

Still all we have is the beta to go by. Nothing there was even close to endgame. We'll have to see how accessable Bungie makes it for players needing to find a group of their own for raids.

 

[Sevyne]

What do you think will happen after Bungie allows matchmaking for the raid, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of players flood into the raid, and 99+% of them get completely wrecked

If you are implying that those people will be complaining then perhaps you are right. However, how is that going to be any different than people just manually inviting randoms (which is something they can do)? All the matchmaking does is take out the annoying stress of doing it manually. You talk as if not having it suddenly means random groups won't happen. They will, but they're being severely inconvenienced for really no reason.

 

[NullPointer]

Creating a matchmaking option would indicate to players that it's something intended to be played by using matchmaking and teaming up with strangers. Which it clearly isnt.

PVP isn't *meant* be played by strangers either, nor are the co-op modes in just about every game.

Matchmaking here would end up with a mix of parties with less than six players and individuals who don't have friends with the game or don't want to deal with a clan. Put those people together and sometimes you really can forge a quality team, especially over hours of gameplay. Hell, it seems perfectly designed to turn a team of casual players into a unified force.

Lower-quality rewards if you play and win with randoms.

I gotta know the thought process behind this ask. If a matchmade group of players can get together and overcome the raid's odds why in the world should they get lesser loot?

 

[GraveRobberX]

I'll play with all of you if you have a PS4!

 

[Karl Hawk]

I'll play with all of you if you have a PS4!

Sure thing.

PSN: Krisars

 

[ultron87]

Luke himself even said:

The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it. It's very much a team-building exercise.

Why can this disparate group only start from your Friends List, a Bungie.net thread, or GAF?

 

[Karl Hawk]

PVP isn't *meant* be played by strangers either, nor are the co-op modes in just about every game.

Matchmaking here would end up with a mix of parties with less than six players and individuals who don't have friends with the game or don't want to deal with a clan. Put those people together and sometimes you really can forge a quality team, especially over hours of gameplay. Hell, it seems perfectly designed to turn a team of casual players into a unified force.


I gotta know the thought process behind this ask. If a matchmade group of players can get together and overcome the raid's odds why in the world should they get lesser loot?

Now that you say this, lower-quality rewards for matchmade group of randoms for finishing the Raid sounds like a bad idea.

 

[Pastry]

I understand everyone's frustration about the decision to not have matchmaking in a post-matchmaking world. I also understand the limitations that this places on the activity's adoption at scale.

That barrier to entry - the requirement that you get a group of people together and venture into something that is going to challenge your ability to work together (first) and your thumbs (second) - is a barrier I was willing to erect to preserve the activity goals.

Bleeding edge hardcore groups will invest some significant amount of time in figuring out the encounters and making their way through the Vault.

I fully expect groups to beat Normal mode in the first week its available.

• This is intentional, I'd like any group that is motivated and willing to cooperate to make their way through the Raid on Normal. I've talked some about thumbskill challenge vs. investment challenge vs. cooperation challenge in some interviews, and the Normal Raid difficulty prioritizes cooperation challenge and investment challenge.

I expect Hard mode to take longer.
Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than 3 hours.

However, the first time through, learning everything and arranging your group will take some hard-to-predict amount of time until some clan releases their strategies on YouTube.

The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it. It's very much a team-building exercise.

If you're going to stream it this Fall, please feel free to let me know here. I'd love to tune in.

Unfortunately this does not address the biggest problem currently, the lack of in game social features in relation to groups and clans. I don't think as many people would be complaining if there was a decent communication system set up. As it is I have no way to communicate to my clan members that I am LFG for a Raid. If matchmaking with randoms does not exist then there must be an in game matchmaking system for clans and groups.

 

[Sevyne]

I gotta know the thought process behind this ask. If a matchmade group of players can get together and overcome the raid's odds why in the world should they get lesser loot?

MMO Raider entitlement mindset. I know because I was one of them, and I'm not proud of that. It's kind of funny to watch other people do it now though because it's so ridiculous. It's made even more hilarious because this is not an MMO.

 

[ChrisMahoney]

Will I need to do a 2 hour raid every week in order to get the best sniper rifle? I don't want to be forced to PvE in order to PvP.

 

[EL CUCO]

Because those people will complain about how the Raid is bad and broken, forcing Bungie's hand to dumb down the difficulty.

I know, I know, they should make a matchmaking system for randoms, but only with the following conditions:
Voice chat should be enabled
Warning message about the Raid's difficulty and it requires teamwork and coordination.
Lower-quality rewards if you play and win with randoms.

Wut