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[sk3]

This sucks. As if all the questionable revelations this week weren't enough.

It really seems that Destiny is backing into its launch as we learn more about it in these final few months.

Create a fireteam with people you meet in free roam, that you cannot talk to because chat fucking sucks. What? How does that work? Are they going to create new emotes for "Hey come raid with me"?

 

[mcfrank]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but why can't it be an option? Can't there be matchmaking as well as friend parties or playing with a dedicated team? Why one or the other?

Because if it will be a frustrating experience for 99% of the people who do it, who just saw a button that said "Vault of Glass" and launched into a playlist with no hope of completing it, then as a game designer you are faced with a tough decision.

1.) You can make the content easier - This would lead to an equally long GAF thread of people complaining about them "dumbing it down"

2.) You can do what Bungie is doing at launch and make it only available to friends/clans

3.) You can build in multiple difficulties and reward tiers with the lowest level available for match making. I suspect Bungie will get to this point in the future and it is just not ready at launch (It took WoW how long to get to this point, even with making billions of dollars a year?) as they are erring on the side of making the content too difficult for experiments sake.

4.) You let people match make into the super hard content and be frustrated and have a bad time - This is what most people in the thread are asking for and it is the worst of the possible 4 options.

 

[frequency]

Good choice, Bungie. Completely support this. Wow was eventually forced to dumb down thier endgame because people complained that they weren't handled gear.

Are you saying that raids like DS, ToT and SoO are dumbed down compared to raids like MC, BT, and Trial?

 

[Jest Chillin]

Such a hardcore PvP activity like say... Iron Banner? Perhaps they should remove matchmaking from there?

(also the implication that PvP itself is 'casual' is pretty hilarious)

I never said the word Hardcore. In fact I actually avoided it because I'm not trying use terminology in the same way that gaming elitists do. However if you're talking about Iron Banner giving out rewards at the end of matches... those rewards are given completely at random regardless of performance. So it doesn't matter if you win or lose, gaining a reward from a match is pure luck.

And when I say casual player.. I mean the word casual by it's literal interpretation. A player who isn't out there to top leaderboards and dominate and put out highlight videos of fancy kills, but one who's just playing to have fun either way. Plenty of casual players play PvP.

You think it's a good idea to exclude 'the bulk of players' from the raid?

I never said anything about excluding players. I said that the difference between random matchmaking and asking for more players from GAF would be the ability to tailor your search to your own specifications. That, by definition, means that you can look for whatever type of player you're interested in playing with. There is no exclusion involved.

Oh and funny story about gaf's community of avid gamers, know how I got my Relic weapon in FFXIV 2.0 when it launched? A group of randoms. After failing for two weeks with my gaf clan.

This has nothing to do with anything. But thanks for the story about your Final Fantasy experience.

There just aren't any good arguments for removing matchmaking, they invariably boil down to some crude level of "fuck you, got mine" (I look forward to someone posting about progression content here at some point), or fears about the content being nerfed (why nerf it when they can set up a spectrum of difficulty levels from filthy matchmaking casual to anointed mlg son?).

And here's where you reveal the fact that you're making a lot of assumptions about everyone who is against random matchmaking. There is no "fuck you, got mine" involved in this particular discussion. This isn't a legitimate gating off of content. All it is, is requiring players to put in some effort to manually recruit two Fireteams. That's it. This is literally how PUGs made groups for Raids in MMO's for YEARS. The only thing that LFG and LFR have done is streamline this process to make it faster. However even in doing that, Blizzard realized that you can't just throw people together and have them succeed at the normal difficulty. It doesn't work. So they had to lower the difficulty to ensure a higher success rate. This really didn't even have anything to do with legitimate skill level so much as it has to do with wildly varied playing styles, maturity, level of commitment/effort, and even gear quality.

This has nothing to do with Elitism and everything to do with putting in the effort to form a group and trying to learn and grow with the group, rather than Queing up.. pew pewing for a few minutes and then dropping group on the first wipe because you can turn around and queue up again for a new group with zero effort at all.

If Bungie's stance is, "too bad for you, we want to preserve the activity goals" then I guess eventually my stance may become, "too bad for you, I want to play a game that isn't hostile to me for not having 5 people ready to play all the time."

If you have no problem with picking up randoms to fill out the group.. then why not continue to do so in Destiny only instead of instantly forgetting about them when you're done.. add them to your PSN/XBL Friends list so you can ask them again another time. Adding more people you play well with over time everytime you recruit randoms and suddenly, they're not randoms any longer and you have a much bigger pool of players to team up with.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

That's another thing I find baffling. What is even the point of Clans if the game doesn't even have an option to see Clanmates and invite/join them? Even with Clans you still have to add them to your console friend list which seems ridiculous.

Wait, really?? Thats awful then.


Oh god! Lol
Seriously... At an MMORPG most of the cases there are a pretty decent clan system, a text comunication option and a much more complex battle system!

If Destiny do not have a proper clan system, do not have a text chat option, do not have tons of players running on a same area, and so on... How the hell will there be enough people, good players at the proper level who can all play at the same time, to form a entire group to play a raid, if not with clans like GAF? They really meant to make a supposedly interesting end game content THAT restrict?

Matchmaking on this case turns out being even more obligatory.

 

[Flipyap]

If they don't want to include matchmaking for certain modes, then they really need to make it possible for players to look at their friends list (or clan roster or the list of players in their instance) and be able to tell instantly whom they should try to invite if they're interested in playing a specific game mode.
You know, without having to send system level messages, having to join parties before you can ask them in-game, or using forums and apps.

Something like this:

(I hope none of these strangers will mind that I included their names here, but I didn't have any other useable shots of the roster screen)

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

I've had extensive experience with randoms. I'm sure many gaffers have also. If you don't want the experience you describe, don't use matchmaking. For many players matchmaking would be fine.

But it significantly alters the design of the raid if you add matchmaking. You'd have to reduce a raid with high coordination and difficulty to a flex raid where you stand there, face roll and get loot. When wow tried any sort of match making raid with coordination it just ended in disaster and frustration.

So yes they could add it but it's a completely different experience and not something id focus on for the initial launch.

 

[Crosseyes]

I've had extensive experience with randoms. I'm sure many gaffers have also. If you don't want the experience you describe, don't use matchmaking. For many players matchmaking would be fine.

I think the point is that it's Bungie's intention that for all players matchmaking will NOT be fine. At least at first.

The content will just be too hard and complex for uncoordinated groups to even make progress let alone win. It'll remain to be seen if it will be the case but I can see the MMO influence strong here in its perspective.

We still don't know if at that endgame there will be a way in game to search and find people for the raid along with places like GAF or Bungie.net and one's friends list. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Principate]

I'm very much split on how I feel about the decision to not allow matchmaking, but given that the raid will take hours to beat, I can see some of the logic in removing it. A couple of randoms dropping at any time during the raid could torpedo the entire team, and that is something that would likely happen a very large percentage of the time, wreaking it for everyone. I've been in too many sessions of PvP and PvE (primarily Halo) where a player or two dropping led to a snowballing in the degree to which the matchmade team was screwed. Gathering up only friends, from your friends list or clan, establishes a different relationship and set of expectations from players. You're more likely to lose due to being defeated, rather than abandoned. With matchmaking the situation will often be reversed.

Again, I'm not totally sold on its removal for this reason. I think it would be nice to have as a fallback. But I think the notion of matchmade teams of randoms forming a bond and conquering will be not especially common (which is not to say it won't happen). I'd expect most hours-long raids with randoms to end with drops, curses and great frustration.

The removal is kind of bad idea even if takes hours to complete not everyone will be able to gather a group of 6 people to do this content. Hell I'd imagine the majority aren't so you'll end up with well randoms randoms. This isn't big hurdle, it's something mmo's have dealt with for decades now, in a game like this with minimum need of organising in comparison to some mmo's what you need is people that know what they're doing rather than people you know. You'll then talk and sort out your tactics. Allowing people to attempt the content quickly means more people will know what they're doing faster and decreasing the chance of you getting someone that has absolutely no idea.

As long as method of screening players and the ability to kick before entering the "raid" match-making is fine. It's only 6 people. This choice doesn't solve any problems just makes it harder to find a raid.

 

[viveks86]

Because if it will be a frustrating experience for 99% of the people who do it, who just saw a button that said "Vault of Glass" and launched into a playlist with no hope of completing it, then as a game designer you are faced with a tough decision.

1.) You can make the content easier - This would lead to an equally long GAF thread of people complaining about them "dumbing it down"

2.) You can do what Bungie is doing at launch and make it only available to friends/clans

3.) You can build in multiple difficulties and reward tiers with the lowest level available for match making. I suspect Bungie will get to this point in the future and it is just not ready at launch (It took WoW how long to get to this point, even with making billions of dollars a year?) as they are erring on the side of making the content too difficult for experiments sake.

4.) You let people match make into the super hard content and be frustrated and have a bad time - This is what most people in the thread are asking for and it is the worst of the possible 4 options.

A much better worded response than the one I wrote. I agree.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I can definitely understand where you're coming from, and those are the risks of matchmaking right there, though joining a clan comes with its own potential pitfalls as well via its dramas and responsibilities.

I definitely prefer to play with my friends whenever possible, but there aren't six of us and we've been burned by other clans just about every time we've joined em, including GAF clans.

So this content really does look off limits at the moment.

I'm in a similar situation. I won't join a clan (too much drama in them in my experience), so I'll rely on my friends list. But I am A) west coast and B) a parent who only games after his kids are in bed. So most of my friends list is offline by the time I get on, which led to ~90% of my Halo time being in matchmaking without a party. So I'm not fan of the solution from that standpoint. Raids are the kind of thing I will absolutely love doing, but I won't get to do them often. It's just that the alternative of matchmaking might be just as frustrating in its own ways.

Because if it will be a frustrating experience for 99% of the people who do it, who just saw a button that said "Vault of Glass" and launched into a playlist with no hope of completing it, then as a game designer you are faced with a tough decision.

1.) You can make the content easier - This would lead to an equally long GAF thread of people complaining about them "dumbing it down"

2.) You can do what Bungie is doing at launch and make it only available to friends/clans

3.) You can build in multiple difficulties and reward tiers with the lowest level available for match making. I suspect Bungie will get to this point in the future and it is just not ready at launch (It took WoW how long to get to this point, even with making billions of dollars a year?) as they are erring on the side of making the content too difficult for experiments sake.

4.) You let people match make into the super hard content and be frustrated and have a bad time - This is what most people in the thread are asking for and it is the worst of the possible 4 options.

Well said. This largely falls in line with my line of thought.

 

[Acerac]

The one thing I've taken from this thread is that I'm glad I don't raid any more. I had forgotten the personalities that come with such an activity.

 

[Doctor West]

Not enough of my friends will be picking up this game to fill up a full team. So I'll be more than happy to join up with others on this site when that day comes.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Lots of people, sitting in town with their LFRG flag up.

 

[GraveRobberX]

4.) You let people match make into the super hard content and be frustrated and have a bad time - This is what most people in the thread are asking for and it is the worst of the possible 4 options.

This is the one that will piss people who put time and effort to get to that point and it really will do what Bungie already is doing here

As I posted earlier, Strikes alone already are frustrating with randoms
Some quit all together leaving you sometimes solo in a Hard difficulty Strike Mission

Try soloing Devil Walker in Devils' Lair strike on Hard solo, it takes a goddamn eternity!
Sooner or later enemies stop dropping necessities needed and you run out of ammo...

Can you imagine if 4 people just drop during a raid because they couldn't beat the boss, so 2 people who were well equipped are now fucked, because the other 4 were unprepared

I mean Bungie could very well do matchmaking for Raid, but then quarantine the events with certain restrictions of having certain gear level or certain stat #'s to even enter, would that be more fair?

5 other people are not that hard to play with
GAF has a huge abundance of players playing on all platforms, we have spreadsheets galore of people setting up clans to certain timezones

I mean GAF NA EST reached like clan #10 cause that how many people were locked into said clans
EU reached clan #3

So yeah, you will have to be a little forthcoming and just add new people to your FL

Since I posted in here about adding me as a friend and I will be always on playing this religiously, I got 20+ friend invites and I sent out 15+ to others to have them
Before Destiny I had 20+ GAFfers as friends on PSN, now I have over 150+
If I can't find 5 people out of those 150+, to go play with, then wow, I must really suck

 

[Super Stardust]

Great so even more content is locked away from me because I can't regularly find 6 ppl to play with .

I also have no way to talk to people in the tower to let them know I want to try the raid , so basically a huge part if the game is locked out.

join the gaf destiny clan, theres an australian one. I just joined

 

[AusRoachman]

join the gaf destiny clan, theres an australian one. I just joined

Link?

 

[Twilight Gap]

Because if it will be a frustrating experience for 99% of the people who do it, who just saw a button that said "Vault of Glass" and launched into a playlist with no hope of completing it, then as a game designer you are faced with a tough decision.

1.) You can make the content easier - This would lead to an equally long GAF thread of people complaining about them "dumbing it down"

2.) You can do what Bungie is doing at launch and make it only available to friends/clans

3.) You can build in multiple difficulties and reward tiers with the lowest level available for match making. I suspect Bungie will get to this point in the future and it is just not ready at launch (It took WoW how long to get to this point, even with making billions of dollars a year?) as they are erring on the side of making the content too difficult for experiments sake.

4.) You let people match make into the super hard content and be frustrated and have a bad time - This is what most people in the thread are asking for and it is the worst of the possible 4 options.

Solid points.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I'm in a similar situation. I won't join a clan (too much drama in them in my experience), so I'll rely on my friends list. But I am A) west coast and B) a parent who only games after his kids are in bed. So most of my friends list is offline by the time I get on

Ghaleon you'll have my sword, axe, bow to play with

I will be playing this all day/night, so you'll have my Warlock at your disposal! when you get your PS4

 

[Lingxor]

They did this with Firefight in ODST... It was the feature that I was most excited about for that game and I couldn't play it at all.

 

[Mutagenic]

I hope they allow people to reconnect if their internet drops for a sec.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but why can't it be an option? Can't there be matchmaking as well as friend parties or playing with a dedicated team? Why one or the other?

In some things there is a functional only choice. And in games design sometimes no choice is the better idea. I mean you could solo que in a MOBA but you are asking for some pain according to some.

 

[Apt101]

I'll just reiterate what I posted before, that this kind of content probably won't prove popular and Bungie will learn just as Blizzard did - particularly in the console space. Many want the ability to pick up and play and experience all content. If their concern is communication, then improve those tools - facilitate chat. If it's coordination, then implement factors into a queue system that accounts for gear and content completed (so that coordination isn't key, but helps. and players know that potential PUG members at least have some idea of how content works at greater difficulties). This is only going to lead to a minority who loves it, a majority who never experiences it, and a sizable portion of the playerbase that will complain about it until it's accessible. That's my prognostication anyways.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I'm in a similar situation. I won't join a clan (too much drama in them in my experience), so I'll rely on my friends list. But I am A) west coast and B) a parent who only games after his kids are in bed. So most of my friends list is offline by the time I get on, which led to ~90% of my Halo time being in matchmaking without a party. So I'm not fan of the solution from that standpoint. Raids are the kind of thing I will absolutely love doing, but I won't get to do them often. It's just that the alternative of matchmaking might be just as frustrating in its own ways.

As a Parent who games, I know exactly where you're coming from. Especially since most of my Friends List are guys who are single and don't have kids. However, this is where places like official forums come in especially handy. I've played MMORPGs for years but once I had kids, I knew I couldn't devote the time that most Guilds want to playing. So what I did was use forums to find Guilds of like-minded players. I applied to them and was upfront about my available playing times and clued them in to the fact that since I have kids, I may end up missing, being late, or having to go afk in the middle of Dungeons/Raids. I was always easily able to find Guilds that accommodated me in that regard.

For example, using Bungie.net, I searched their groups for the term "Dad" and got 3 groups dedicated to Fathers who game. The largest has over 900 members. Should be plenty of people in that group in a variety of timezones that would be available to play with and would completely understand other obligations.

Now the glaring issue with this type of thing is there's no guarantee that drama won't crop up in these groups but that's really possible with pretty much any group. But my point, I think, is still valid. There's lots of ways to find likeminded people with which to group. You just have to be willing to look for them and give them a shot.

 

[Nokagi]

The one thing I've taken from this thread is that I'm glad I don't raid any more. I had forgotten the personalities that come with such an activity.

haha yeah I know what you mean. I haven't raided in years but I thought it would be fun to que up and try a raid in Destiny sometime. Guess not. Really starting to regret buying the digital version of the game now.(Fully admit that was stupid) Live and learn I guess.

 

[Sevyne]

5 other people are not that hard to play with
GAF has a huge abundance of players playing on all platforms, we have spreadsheets galore of people setting up clans to certain timezones

I mean GAF NA EST reached like clan #10 cause that how many people were locked into said clans
EU reached clan #3

So yeah, you will have to be a little forthcoming and just add new people to your FL

Since I posted in here about adding me as a friend and I will be always on playing this religiously, I got 20+ friend invites and I sent out 15+ to others to have them
Before Destiny I had 20+ GAFfers as friends on PSN, now I have over 150+
If I can't find 5 people out of those 150+, to go play with, then wow, I must really suck

Even ignoring the issue of no matchmaking, the game doesn't even have all of the tools to conveniently put together a group from your clans. No proper communication tools, no way to see what clanmates are even playing, nothing. Why do I have to add every single person in my clan to my console friends list to communicate? Shouldn't clan lists be baked right into the game if that's how they want us to run raids? Shouldn't we have a way to communicate that we want to run a raid right in the game instead of running to a forum? Are we traveling back to the 90's or something now?

For a game that they seem so set on being a social experience amongst friends/clanmates, they sure make it a chore to do so.

 

[viveks86]

I hope they allow people to reconnect if their internet drops for a sec.

Yeah would be interesting to see how that pans out. If they expect coordinated activities (such as "stand on 6 different switches while holding off hordes of enemies") a broken connection could mean game over. Should the game pause until the 6th guy reconnects? I'm guessing that's the only way it can work.

 

[Maintenance]

Yeah would be interesting to see how that pans out. If they expect coordinated activities (such as "stand on 6 different switches while holding off hordes of enemies") a broken connection could mean game over. Should the game pause until the 6th guy reconnects? I'm guessing that's the only way it can work.

Not hardcore enough. If anyone drops, start from the beginning.

 

[computers putin']

Because if it will be a frustrating experience for 99% of the people who do it, who just saw a button that said "Vault of Glass" and launched into a playlist with no hope of completing it, then as a game designer you are faced with a tough decision.

1.) You can make the content easier - This would lead to an equally long GAF thread of people complaining about them "dumbing it down"

2.) You can do what Bungie is doing at launch and make it only available to friends/clans

3.) You can build in multiple difficulties and reward tiers with the lowest level available for match making. I suspect Bungie will get to this point in the future and it is just not ready at launch (It took WoW how long to get to this point, even with making billions of dollars a year?) as they are erring on the side of making the content too difficult for experiments sake.

4.) You let people match make into the super hard content and be frustrated and have a bad time - This is what most people in the thread are asking for and it is the worst of the possible 4 options.

Put a warning about how difficult it is on the screen before you enter into matchmaking, and after that let people crash and burn on their own; no need to adjust the difficulty, at that point Bungie can't be held accountable for how people spend their time. Honestly, I think after a certain point, the players who get frustrated with the mode would simply stop trying to play it, and the game mode would naturally filter itself out at that point, leaving mostly experienced/good players in the matchmaking pool.

 

[viveks86]

Not hardcore enough. If anyone drops, start from the beginning.

LOL. I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the case.

 

[NullPointer]

I hope they allow people to reconnect if their internet drops for a sec.

Is Destiny running on dedicated servers? If so, you run the risk of not only losing player connections, but Live/PSN and Destiny servers themselves.

Would really suck to see a multi-hour raid go to hell from either one of those.

This is only going to lead to a minority who loves it, a majority who never experiences it, and a sizable portion of the playerbase that will complain about it until it's accessible. That's my prognostication anyways.

I'd bet you're right, with extra special gnashing of teeth considering what advantages that Raid gear will have in PVP, especially Iron Banner but also in the standard normalized modes (because upgrades and cooldowns still count).

 

[Super Stardust]

Link?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=856555

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121660015&postcount=2548

 

[Jabba]

I think the point is that it's Bungie's intention that for all players matchmaking will NOT be fine. At least at first.

The content will just be too hard and complex for uncoordinated groups to even make progress let alone win. It'll remain to be seen if it will be the case but I can see the MMO influence strong here in its perspective.

We still don't know if at that endgame there will be a way in game to search and find people for the raid along with places like GAF or Bungie.net and one's friends list. We'll have to wait and see.

@gketter

Look, matchmaking is fine, regardless of difficulty. If people want to get wrecked, let them, is the point. It should be an option to get wrecked through matchmaking.

@Crosseyes

As I edited my other post, Bungie should stick to their guns on raiding difficulty. As others have said, they could put a huge disclaimer before going in. I don't have 5 friends and don't usually join clans. But I have no problems joining random people and taking shots at it. Me wanting to do this has no effect on Bungies design. Why? Because there will be crude matchmaking and the situation is going to be exactly like some of us describe anyway.

Let people get wrecked.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Another blow. Bungee knows best.

 

[viveks86]

Is Destiny running on dedicated servers? If so, you run the risk of not only losing player connections, but Live/PSN and Destiny servers themselves.

Would really suck to see a multi-hour raid go to hell from either one of those.

This is a very valid concern. The rest of the complaints in this thread and the armchair design workarounds aren't.

 

[shinobi602]

Because if it will be a frustrating experience for 99% of the people who do it, who just saw a button that said "Vault of Glass" and launched into a playlist with no hope of completing it, then as a game designer you are faced with a tough decision.

1.) You can make the content easier - This would lead to an equally long GAF thread of people complaining about them "dumbing it down"

2.) You can do what Bungie is doing at launch and make it only available to friends/clans

3.) You can build in multiple difficulties and reward tiers with the lowest level available for match making. I suspect Bungie will get to this point in the future and it is just not ready at launch (It took WoW how long to get to this point, even with making billions of dollars a year?) as they are erring on the side of making the content too difficult for experiments sake.

4.) You let people match make into the super hard content and be frustrated and have a bad time - This is what most people in the thread are asking for and it is the worst of the possible 4 options.

Great, guess I won't be playing it then. Even I won't be able to find that many friends on at the same time and willing to do it. I don't feel I should be penalized for that but...it seems to be the case.

 

[Sevyne]

I can see it now; A universally agreed on Emblem that will mean "LFG Vault of Glass". You heard it here first folks. That's what no matchmaking and no communication does. It makes people have to resort to silliness to circumvent it.

 

[mcfrank]

Put a warning about how difficult it is on the screen before you enter into matchmaking, and after that let people crash and burn on their own; no need to adjust the difficulty, at that point Bungie can't be held accountable for how people spend their time. Honestly, I think after a certain point, the players who get frustrated with the mode would simply stop trying to play it, and the game mode would naturally filter itself out at that point, leaving mostly experienced/good players in the matchmaking pool.

Restricting your customers options is better than frustrating them.

 

[Yaari]

Unfortunate. I don't have much gaming friends and the ones that do only play sports games. So now I am forced to make friends, it sounds pretty ridiculous but it does come down to that.

I can respect them for creating a difficult raid atmosphere. But it sucks that this high end tier is not going to be for me.

I don't really like to chat while playing either so I guess I can cross end-game PVE off my Destiny wishlist. It really is too bad because it is what I enjoyed the most in the Beta, and yes, all with randoms.

 

[mcfrank]

Great, guess I won't be playing it then. Even I won't be able to find that many friends on at the same time and willing to do it. I don't feel I should be penalized for that but...it seems to be the case.

The content requires organization. If you aren't able to organize, then you wouldn't be able to finish the content anyways. This is a huge game, not every part of it is going to be for every player.

 

[Karl Hawk]

Put a warning about how difficult it is on the screen before you enter into matchmaking, and after that let people crash and burn on their own; no need to adjust the difficulty, at that point Bungie can't be held accountable for how people spend their time. Honestly, I think after a certain point, the players who get frustrated with the mode would simply stop trying to play it, and the game mode would naturally filter itself out at that point, leaving mostly experienced/good players in the matchmaking pool.

I doubt most randoms will give a shit reading a warning disclaimer about the Raid's difficulty. I'm sure they'll skip the first disclaimer at the first opportunity.

 

[Mindlog]

This is the one that will piss people who put time and effort to get to that point and it really will do what Bungie already is doing here

As I posted earlier, Strikes alone already are frustrating with randoms

Not for me. Even when I had to carry them. My 22 revive Strike is more memorable than most of the by-the-numbers easy clears.

Adding people to my FL still raises the issue that I won't know if they're ready to raid at the same time I am. More often than not I bet that forming a group will involve a forum post or twelve.

 

[VariantX]

From having people drop out of strikes because the party wiped at some point, I welcome the choice of excluding matchmaking. Having people drop from a raid just for throwing a fit for dying, others dying, or for whatever silly reason halfway through would leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Of course, that's just my own experience with strikes.

 

[Sevyne]

I doubt most randoms will give a shit reading a warning disclaimer about the Raid's difficulty. I'm sure they'll skip the first disclaimer at the first opportunity.

Well then that would be on them, not Bungie.

 

[GamingIsDead]

There should be a option to allow pubs to join and private only as well, no excuse.

Not unheard from bungie though, never played firefight on odst or a single custom mode/ map in the halo series online on consoles because of the private hosting invite only bullshit.

 

[malfcn]

Raid Video

It all sounds fun. Hopefully friends and GAF make it so.

 

[Hyunashi]

Welp, I am glad I actually have friends interested in playing the same game as I do for once I guess.

 

[shinobi602]

The content requires organization. If you aren't able to organize, then you wouldn't be able to finish the content anyways. This is a huge game, not every part of it is going to be for every player.

I think consumers should have the choice, I don't see the problem in it. If it's very difficult without organization, great, players can be informed of that like adults. I think most would understand something like this takes a lot of teamwork and can coordinate as necessary. If they can't complete then they know they need a dedicated team. Seems fairly simple to me. The notion that 'players can't handle frustration' comes as a somewhat weak excuse. They see the problem and find solutions to it, i.e. "crap, I need to have a good team to beat this".

If it's that huge a deal, surely there's a way to privatize teams so that randoms can't join in while also having another open playlist for randoms.

 

[molnizzle]

This is great news.

The best Destiny news to surface in weeks.

If you're complaining about this, you are wrong. Please stop.

I think consumers should have the choice, I don't see the problem in it. If it's very difficult without organization, great, players can be informed of that like adults. I think most would understand something like this takes a lot of teamwork and can coordinate as necessary. If they can't complete then they know they need a dedicated team. Seems fairly simple to me. The notion that 'players can't handle frustration' comes as a somewhat weak excuse. They see the problem and find solutions to it, i.e. "crap, I need to have a good team to beat this".

Totally wrong. Everyone would just bitch about how ridiculously difficult the raids were. It would only cause frustration.

Gating them in this manner means that casuals will likely never even see them. That is a good thing for people who like MMO-style raiding.

Casual players can continue running around in explore mode or crucible.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

I think consumers should have the choice, I don't see the problem in it. If it's very difficult without organization, great, players can be informed of that like adults. I think most would understand something like this takes a lot of teamwork and can coordinate as necessary. If they can't complete then they know they need a dedicated team. Seems fairly simple to me. The notion that 'players can't handle frustration' comes as a somewhat weak excuse. They see the problem and find solutions to it, i.e. "crap, I need to have a good team to beat this".

When I've seen this in other instances. The fanbases response was to complain about the mode and cry for nerfs. Not the more reasoned approach that you think.