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[Mael]

Just a reminder that people need to use this thread to talk about Versus and how it fairs against X... not general FF stuff or whatever.

At this point, that's how the thread evolved...

So I am. Bonjour!

We're, like, ten I think: Computer, Kurtofan, Kafeil, UnluckyKate, G.O.O, Mistouze, Alx, Ebil, you and me. There must be more of course, but those are first to come to my mind.

Salut!
J'ai du en voir 2 ou 3 autres mais on peut pas dire que ma mémoire soit bonne à ce niveau

It wasn't a PS3-exclusive back then. Chances are, Versus may be announced on the 360 at some point.

True but there's also the fact that even Versus devs were used to help XIII go through dev hell.
Chances are what was shown of Vs was a very quick job to even have something to show.
After all for Crystal Bearer they didn't have anything AT ALL when they showed a trailer at e3 2006.
I doubt SE is made of incompetent loons too, I mean it's the guys who made a cross platform engine with a game to show it on a very quick schedule.
Or it could be that Kawazu really does always deliver his projects on time...

 

[wsippel]

I beg to differ.

If you really want some perspective, Monolith had yet to release Xenosaga Episode III back when Versus was announced. It shipped in Japan two months after the Versus announcement. So they've actually released two great games.

Three. Soma Bringer was great as well. And that's just Takahashi - the studio as a whole released eight games since Versus was announced. Not counting SSBB and Skyward Sword, of course.

 

[jaxword]

Nostalgia not only filters peoples' memories, it downright makes them vicious about new material.

The amount of people with this bitter "I WANT S-E to fail" is really kind of childish.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Nostalgia not only filters peoples' memories, it downright makes them vicious about new material.

The amount of people with this bitter "I WANT S-E to fail" is really kind of childish.

It's not really that childish when that bitterness is caused by S-E themselves

 

[Kiryu]

It's not really that childish when that bitterness is caused by S-E themselves

But you don't want SE to fail even more so they go bankrupt and never see light of FF ever again.

 

[Laughing Banana]

But you don't want SE to fail even more so they go bankrupt and never see light of FF ever again.

*Sigh* I don't know really. Nowadays it appears like Square seems to expect that plastering Final Fantasy names on everything alone will make it sell (well, maybe it does...) It's just that they don't seem even squeamish to put it on clearly below-average products like that that bravest game of whatever. It's like they don't even mind that that kind of approach can dilute the value of FF brand (if not already is.)

 

[Mael]

*Sigh* I don't know really. Nowadays it appears like Square seems to expect that plastering Final Fantasy names on everything alone will make it sell (well, maybe it does...) It's just that they don't seem even squeamish to put it on clearly below-average products like that that bravest game of whatever. It's like they don't even mind that that kind of approach can dilute the value of FF brand (if not already is.)

How can you possibly blame them in plastering FF everywhere now?
I mean we're talking about a company that did that since forever, even their chocobo dungeon and kart games have FF written all over it!

Nostalgia not only filters peoples' memories, it downright makes them vicious about new material.

The amount of people with this bitter "I WANT S-E to fail" is really kind of childish.

No one would scream for their blood if the stuffs we get were more BD or Type-0 and not endless Lightning games.
as far as I'm concerned they're more than willing to do without my money so I don't intend to give them any as long as what they release is shit.
I do the same with every company, Capcom got nothing for RE6 or DmC and I only helped GAME get rid of its stock with Dragon's Dogma.

 

[Famassu]

*Sigh* I don't know really. Nowadays it appears like Square seems to expect that plastering Final Fantasy names on everything alone will make it sell (well, maybe it does...) It's just that they don't seem even squeamish to put it on clearly below-average products like that that bravest game of whatever. It's like they don't even mind that that kind of approach can dilute the value of FF brand (if not already is.)

Bleh, All the Bravest is a stupid few dollar iOS game and only ONE at that. Square Enix has put more effort into many other smartphone games and even if they have released a lot of non-mainline FF games, they've been pretty good recently (Dissidias, Theatrhythm, Type-0).

 

[Mael]

Bleh, All the Bravest is a stupid few dollar iOS game and only ONE at that. Square Enix has put more effort into many other smartphone games and even if they have released a lot of non-mainline FF games, they've been pretty good recently (Dissidias, Theatrhythm, Type-0).

The bold was also butchered on iOS with its microtransaction BS.
I totally expect them to butcher more of their games for iOS money.
The problem is probably one of content, they seem perfectly happy with milking content for the last 10 years or so.
As far as everyone is concerned, if they don't release BD(which is a simili sequel to a FF spinoff) SE is basically FF shit with KH and DQ thrown together.

 

[Narolf]

At this point, that's how the thread evolved...

Why did I ask people to use the FF community thread for that talk instead then?

I doubt SE is made of incompetent loons too, I mean it's the guys who made a cross platform engine with a game to show it on a very quick schedule.

They really aren't. If anything, they are using Ueda's approach for Versus, his "design by subtraction".

His games have achieved popular cult status and are distinguished by a severe economy of plot and scenario, illustrated with overexposed, desaturated light and sparse dialogue. He describes this approach as "design by subtraction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumito_Ueda​

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/924364-shadow-of-the-colossus/faqs/41817

I could do a shorter yet similar analysis for Versus, even in this day and age.

 

[Mael]

Why did I ask people to use the FF community thread for that talk instead then?

Good point

They really aren't. If anything, they are using Ueda's approach for Versus: "design by subtraction".

His games have achieved popular cult status and are distinguished by a severe economy of plot and scenario, illustrated with overexposed, desaturated light and sparse dialogue. He describes this approach as "design by subtraction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumito_Ueda​

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/924364-shadow-of-the-colossus/faqs/41817

I could do a shorter yet similar analysis for Versus, even in this day and age.

Yeah that's probably not happening with VsXIII

 

[Famassu]

No one would scream for their blood if the stuffs we get were more BD or Type-0 and not endless Lightning games.

But you HAVE gotten games like those within the last 5-6 years. Again, stop putting such stupidly huge amount of emphasis on FFXIII games. So far they've released two FFXIII games, in the meantime they've also pushed out stuff like TWEWY, BBS & DDD, Dissida 012, Tactics Ogre, 3rd Birthday, Nier, Dragon Quest IX & such.

Bitching about Type-0 gets you nowhere when the platform it was released on is dead and was earlier proven to be a shitty platform to release Square Enix's games on because everyone just pirated the games. And now the two potential platforms it could be released for aren't doing that well (on one hand 3DS is doing better than Vita, but they'd probably have to do a lot more work to port it to 3DS than Vita, on the other hand Vita ain't selling all that well, so even if the port could be done easier, it might be irrelevant if it can't do at least similar numbers that it would on 3DS).

Also, Bravely Default localization still has a fair chance of happening. It's probably just a low priority project for them given that it will likely not sell well no matter how quickly or slowly they localize it. I'd expect it to perhaps be announced @ E3 or prior to E3. If it's not announced by then, then you can cry moar. But before that there's still a fair chance of them doing it.

 

[Mael]

But you HAVE gotten games like those within the last 5-6 years. Again, stop putting such stupidly huge amount of emphasis on FFXIII games. So far they've released two FFXIII games, in the meantime they've also pushed out stuff like TWEWY, BBS & DDD, Dissida 012, Tactics Ogre, 3rd Birthday, Nier, Dragon Quest IX & such.

Bitching about Type-0 gets you nowhere when the platform it was released on is dead and was earlier proven to be a shitty platform to release Square Enix's games on because everyone just pirated the games. And now the two potential platforms it could be released for aren't doing that well (on one hand 3DS is doing better than Vita, but they'd probably have to do a lot more work to port it to 3DS than Vita, on the other hand Vita ain't selling all that well, so even if the port could be done easier, it might be irrelevant if it can't do at least similar numbers that it would on 3DS).

Also, Bravely Default localization still has a fair chance of happening. It's probably just a low priority project for them given that it will likely not sell well no matter how quickly or slowly they localize it. I'd expect it to perhaps be announced @ E3 or prior to E3. If it's not announced by then, then you can cry moar. But before that there's still a fair chance of them doing it.

Hey don't put words in my mouth either.
No one could reasonably be unhappy with their handheld output going even as far back as 2006, I can even take the liberty of not even touching some of their games to have enough stuffs to play.
Their console output on the other hand is dismal at best.
The only game in your list that's not on a handheld is Nier which was by Cavia (who's dead and buried now too).
Pretty telling.
Also Don't underestimate how big FF is as a brand for SquareEnix, it's basically what Mario is to Nintendo.
You can be sure as hell that people would be fearing for Nintendo's wellbeing if Mario didn't a good game in a generation.
Type 0 is a mess of laughable proportion, a game made with the western market in mind that will never get a release because they were stupid enough to choose a platform where games don't sell thus making the localisation process unlikely.
Really laughable.

for BD we'll see, it's not exactly a sure thing either when we only get the word of the guy who made it saying "we sure would like more people to play it by making it available everywhere".
Could be worse they could announce that they're reworking it to make it a companion FFXIII game with Lightning though

 

[Famassu]

The bold was also butchered on iOS with its microtransaction BS.

The bolded was first released filled to brim with content on 3DS and was later released as a FREE iOS game with downloadable songs that cost money. You didn't expect them to give over a hundred songs for free, did you? The price of one song isn't anything out of the ordinary for rhythm/music games of recent years that have DLC.

I totally expect them to butcher more of their games for iOS money.

Why does that matter when those games have no or at most a very minimal impact on developing games like I've mentioned? They mostly outsource that kind of stuff to others to keep some cashflow moving while fixing XIV, preparing the Luminous Studio & developing whatever they are developing in-house.

As far as everyone is concerned, if they don't release BD(which is a simili sequel to a FF spinoff) SE is basically FF shit with KH and DQ thrown together.

Again, why does it matter if a game has the FF name in it when the experiences are so vastly different? This is not a case of Activision releasing one copy-pasted CoD year after year, but games that offer new worlds, new gameplay systems and are often in completely different genres. Would it have made Dissidia a better game if they had made it with completely new characters? Would Type-0 have been any better if the game was otherwise exactly the same, but without Chocobos, Cid & other stables of the franchise that the FF name brings with it?

 

[Mael]

The bolded was first released filled to brim with content on 3DS and was later released as a FREE iOS game with downloadable songs that cost money. You didn't expect them to give over a hundred songs for free, did you? The price of one song isn't anything out of the ordinary for rhythm/music games of recent years that have DLC.

the problem isn't exactly that it have DLC but they cut up everything and gutted the original game to shamelessly make money off it.

Why does that matter when those games have no or at most a very minimal impact on developing games like I've mentioned? They mostly outsource that kind of stuff to others to keep some cashflow moving while fixing XIV, preparing the Luminous Studio & developing whatever they are developing in-house.

Yes let's all be ok with SquareEnix scaming people out of their money in order to fix a MMO that should have been long forgotten.
Meanwhile we get jack from their inhouse studios.

Again, why does it matter if a game has the FF name in it when the experiences are so vastly different? This is not a case of Activision releasing one copy-pasted CoD year after year, but games that offer new worlds, new gameplay systems and are often in completely different genres. Would it have made Dissidia a better game if they had made it with completely new characters? Would Type-0 have been any better if the game was otherwise exactly the same, but without Chocobos, Cid & other stables of the franchise that the FF name brings with it?

The thing is they've effectively killed every and all the franchises they once had with only making FF (which is a stained IP, Wada said it himself), DQ and KH

 

[Hero]

Famassu why do you keep lumping in their handheld titles and console titles? No one is saying their handheld stuff isn't good. Their own internal development teams have utterly and completed wasted an entire console generation doing nothing but damaging the FF brand name. No other company would have the balls (or stupidity) to announce a game before the target platform was released, managed to release two sequels to a game that the majority didn't ask for nor want and expect fans to stick around. We're also not mentioning how during this time they've wasted the Kingdom Hearts franchise on consoles that sold considerably well on PS2 but managed to make one title for every handheld and split up the userbase at best or make fans apathetic to endless spin off titles at worst.

In addition to that they have existing games that people actually DO want in FF Type 0 and Bravely Default, with more slack given to the latter since its relatively new, and they don't release them nor say anything at all about their fate.

Square-Enix's best bet is to make sure XIV doesn't bomb(again), get LR out and hope enough people buy the game and fast track the shit out of Versus and chalk everything else up to a poor generation for them and start fresh with the new systems and not repeat the same mistakes.

 

[Famassu]

the problem isn't exactly that it have DLC but they cut up everything and gutted the original game to shamelessly make money off it.

OMG, A COMPANY WANTS TO MAKE MONEY! THOSE BASTARDS!

I think someone said to me that you're basically paying as much as a 3DS owner did for as much content with the iOS version, plus you have the option to not buy songs you don't like/are not interested in playing. That doesn't really sound unreasonable to me and I don't see why there's such a huge need for pitchforks & torches, All the Bravest IS the sucky kind of microtransactions, Theatrhythm couldn't be made any other way (unless you think they should apply the "no more than 0,99$" rule to the game, which is unreasonable to expect). The only thing that absolutely sucks about the iOS release is the fact that it has more DLC than the 3DS version, songs I'd very much like to download for the 3DS version. I'm bitter about that.

Yes let's all be ok with SquareEnix scaming people out of their money in

If people are so stupid as to pay, that's not my problem. They are not breaking any laws or doing anything unethical.

And as I said, All the Bravest is just one game that uses the bad kind of microtransactions, otherwise their iOS affairs haven't been at all like that (not that they've been super cheap either, though, but at least they've been proper games).

order to fix a MMO that should have been long forgotten.

An MMO that could offer a lot of people a lot of enjoyment for years to come, if fixed properly. Who are you to say they should abandon it? There still seem to be a lot of people with interest in it.

Meanwhile we get jack from their inhouse studios.

How many times do I have to make a point that we have gotten plenty from them? This year seems a bit barren, but it's not completely devoid of releases and we're only in the beginning of the year, so things could still be announced for this year.

The thing is they've effectively killed every and all the franchises they once had with only making FF (which is a stained IP, Wada said it himself), DQ and KH

THEY didn't kill anything, bad sales did when fans (or "fans") don't put their money where their mouth is. People like to bitch that there are no new IPs but we don't have to go far to see WHY. TWEWY, Last Remnant & Nier are all good games, yet their sales are simply not encouraging enough for Square Enix to put a huge emphasis on new IPs. Besides, you ignored my whole point that Square Enix experiments/innovates within the franchise like almost no other publishers do (except Nintendo). If putting the FF name on a game let's them experiment & do the kind of different projects they've made, I have no problem with that. Bravely Default could very well be a FF game yet that doesn't take anything away from the game's freshness, while Type-0 could very well NOT be a FF game and that wouldn't make it seem any more fresh.

 

[Chev]

TWEWY, Last Remnant & Nier are all good games, yet their sales are simply not encouraging enough for Square Enix to put a huge emphasis on new IPs.

And that's not because the sales were bad per se, TWEWY for example was profitable. Instead it's because they decided on unrealistic minimum sales numbers, and that's stupid. Sales that don't conform to unreasonable expectations aren't the same as bad sales.

 

[Samurai_Heart]

Just to make sure Lightning Returns is the last part of Toriyama's waifu storyline for the console, right? Or are they gonna try and milk as many games from this game engine as possible?

 

[Persona86]

Just to make sure Lightning Returns is the last part of Toriyama's waifu storyline for the console, right? Or are they gonna try and milk as many games from this game engine as possible?

I really think it will be the last one, but I have a feeling Lightning might turn up in things like Kingdom Hearts or as a DLC add on on a game or something.

 

[Mael]

OMG, A COMPANY WANTS TO MAKE MONEY! THOSE BASTARDS!

I think someone said to me that you're basically paying as much as a 3DS owner did for as much content with the iOS version, plus you have the option to not buy songs you don't like/are not interested in playing. That doesn't really sound unreasonable to me and I don't see why there's such a huge need for pitchforks & torches, All the Bravest IS the sucky kind of microtransactions, Theatrhythm couldn't be made any other way (unless you think they should apply the "no more than 0,99$" rule to the game, which is unreasonable to expect). The only thing that absolutely sucks about the iOS release is the fact that it has more DLC than the 3DS version, songs I'd very much like to download for the 3DS version. I'm bitter about that.


If people are so stupid as to pay, that's not my problem. They are not breaking any laws or doing anything unethical.

And as I said, All the Bravest is just one game that uses the bad kind of microtransactions, otherwise their iOS affairs haven't been at all like that (not that they've been super cheap either, though, but at least they've been proper games).

An MMO that could offer a lot of people a lot of enjoyment for years to come, if fixed properly. Who are you to say they should abandon it? There still seem to be a lot of people with interest in it.

The "Company are only wanting to make money" BS didn't exactly sound convincing with on disc dlc or season pass, it's not convincing here eiter.
I vote with my wallet and never give money for that but that doesn't stop me from shitting on them as a result.
FFXIV should have been scrapped and forgotten instead of being the money and time sink it ended up being.
Considering they went all in, it'd be weird to see no one finding that interesting when people were ready to swallow shit like what they call FF now.

How many times do I have to make a point that we have gotten plenty from them? This year seems a bit barren, but it's not completely devoid of releases and we're only in the beginning of the year, so things could still be announced for this year.

On console inhouse what did they do appart from FFXIII? go on I'm waiting on the sea of goodness from SE.
Nier is not from them, Star Ocean is a joke and they managed to botch Crystal Bearers.

THEY didn't kill anything, bad sales did when fans (or "fans") don't put their money where their mouth is. People like to bitch that there are no new IPs but we don't have to go far to see WHY. TWEWY, Last Remnant & Nier are all good games, yet their sales are simply not encouraging enough for Square Enix to put a huge emphasis on new IPs. Besides, you ignored my whole point that Square Enix experiments/innovates within the franchise like almost no other publishers do (except Nintendo). If putting the FF name on a game let's them experiment & do the kind of different projects they've made, I have no problem with that. Bravely Default could very well be a FF game yet that doesn't take anything away from the game's freshness, while Type-0 could very well NOT be a FF game and that wouldn't make it seem any more fresh.

Saga is on GREE, Seiken Densetsu is dead, Ivalice is forgotten, Tactic Ogre will never come back, they shat on Parasite Eve or so I heard, Front Mission is basically a wasteland after a battlefield. Last remnant was ages ago (2008).
Again problem isn't with their handheld output I said as much earlier.

 

[Narolf]

Yeah that's probably not happening with VsXIII

Like it or not, "design by subtraction" is appropriate. Difference with Ueda's games being, interpretations are done before the release this time around. Light will be shed on both the game's problematics and symbolism once it's in our hands. It's a legit and thoughtful approach.

 

[Mael]

Like it or not, "design by subtraction" is appropriate. Difference with Ueda's games being, interpretations are done before the release this time, so that Light will be shed on both the game's problematics and symbolism once it's on our hands. It's a legit and thoughtful approach to me.

I'm more than willing to eat crow, the only fairy tale I find palatable are from Mashima though.

 

[Narolf]

Well, that's also mainline vs spinoff.

Versus is pretty much a mainline title anyway in everything except title.

Same goes to XIII-2, really.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Squall suffers the same problem every character in FF8 suffers: that goddamn orphanage.

The Eagle River Syndrome.

Eagle RIVER???



Personally I think both VS 13 and X will have to prove that they are good games. Xenoblade was enjoyable, but god damn those one dimensional characters and that atrocious armor design. By the end I rooted for the "bad guy" more than this band of boring shits. The games nebulae enemies had more personality.

Regardless, both games seem to focus on one particular element of JRPGs I always liked: Exploration and the creation of a great fantasy world. Given how the genre was basically dead 3 years ago, people should be celebrating about getting so much love lately.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Famassu why do you keep lumping in their handheld titles and console titles? No one is saying their handheld stuff isn't good. Their own internal development teams have utterly and completed wasted an entire console generation doing nothing but damaging the FF brand name. No other company would have the balls (or stupidity) to announce a game before the target platform was released, managed to release two sequels to a game that the majority didn't ask for nor want and expect fans to stick around. We're also not mentioning how during this time they've wasted the Kingdom Hearts franchise on consoles that sold considerably well on PS2 but managed to make one title for every handheld and split up the userbase at best or make fans apathetic to endless spin off titles at worst.

In addition to that they have existing games that people actually DO want in FF Type 0 and Bravely Default, with more slack given to the latter since its relatively new, and they don't release them nor say anything at all about their fate.

Square-Enix's best bet is to make sure XIV doesn't bomb(again), get LR out and hope enough people buy the game and fast track the shit out of Versus and chalk everything else up to a poor generation for them and start fresh with the new systems and not repeat the same mistakes.

I agree with everything here.

 

[Rezae]

I find it amazing that so many people keep talking up Versus. I'd like it as much as the next guy but it's gotta be considered vaporware at this point.

Aside from the terrible XIII line, SE's downfall is FFXIV. I don't see how they recoup the costs from that money pit. They've taken so many years on it that the market has changed completely. Subscription based MMOs are not what they were 3 or 4 years ago.

I've accepted Squaresoft is dead and like most of their great developers, have moved on. I think the company is in a world of hurt, but my be able to stay propped up thru their high return mobile offerings.

 

[Narolf]

We're also not mentioning how during this time they've wasted the Kingdom Hearts franchise on consoles that sold considerably well on PS2 but managed to make one title for every handheld and split up the userbase at best or make fans apathetic to endless spin off titles at worst.

They keep on developing Kingdom Hearts on hand-held for the following.

Question 2: What are the differences between console development and handheld development?

TN: The touch and feel of the PSP is similar to that of the PS2, so in that sense, developing for the PSP wasn't all that different. In fact, that's what we intended. The focus with this title is good, solid gameplay.

Read more: http://kh13.com/forum/topic/6981-ki...sleep-tetsuya-nomura-interview/#ixzz2IzkuLjkp


As it stands, Kingdom Hearts 3 will be on consoles, albeit it's an idea I no longer back, similarly to Versus not being renamed into XV.

2016: Dissidia 3 Ps3 & Vita (cross-buy) + Kingdom Hearts 3 Vita & 3DS (honestly, I stopped believing in KH ever since KH2, this series can keep on contracting its case of tardis of moe aninimu :3 bastardization on handhelds; not to mention Nomura said in an interview he wanted it to remain close to the Ps2 episodes in visuals so that handhelds are the perfect support; also, KH3 would be released ten years after KH2).

http://dissidiaforums.com/showthrea...-Battle-Royale&p=402480&viewfull=1#post402480​

 

[Narolf]

I find it amazing that so many people keep talking up Versus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YgUpwj8pQKc#t=77s​

 

[Persona86]

Mael you sure like talking a lot about something you hate.

 

[Famassu]

The "Company are only wanting to make money" BS didn't exactly sound convincing with on disc dlc or season pass, it's not convincing here eiter.

My god, you're an idiot. DLC for A MUSIC GAME isn't even remotely comparable to on-disc DLC or season passes, especially when they offer the base game for free and you can build the kind of library of songs you want instead of being stuck with whatever they've decided for you.

FFXIV should have been scrapped and forgotten instead of being the money and time sink it ended up being.

That's just YOUR opinion. XIV 2.0 is looking really good. You may have some inane reasons for hating MMOs, but a lot of others don't. I'm somewhat annoyed that Versus is delayed because of XIV 2.0, but I understand why and like what I'm seeing from XIV 2.0, so it doesn't feel like everything's been done for no reason.

Considering they went all in, it'd be weird to see no one finding that interesting when people were ready to swallow shit like what they call FF now.

One mainline FF & its sequels don't make the whole franchise shit, especially not when there have been other great FF releases in the meantime and when we are even talking about the Final Fantasy franchise with switching teams/leads with each installment and vastly different kind of games not only in spin-offs vs. mainline games, but mainline games vs. mainline games as well. The state of non-MMO FF before XIII happened is called Final Fantasy XII, one of the best games in the franchise. While Matsuno has left, a lot of the other people who made the game what it is are still there. Final Fantasy XV will quite likely be something altogether different from XIII, so I find that another reason why it's stupidly premature to write off the whole franchise based on Toriyama's doings this gen.

On console inhouse what did they do appart from FFXIII? go on I'm waiting on the sea of goodness from SE.

I've played plenty of great games from Square Enix, that's all I care about. I don't give a shit about some idiotic, inane requirements for this or that many games to be on these or those platforms withinin X or Y years. When their handheld efforts are as impressive as they are, it doesn't matter.

Nier is not from them, Star Ocean is a joke and they managed to botch Crystal Bearers.

Nier is still a new IP they decided to fund. Also, Star Ocean is all Tri-Ace (there's no creative staff/control from Square Enix's side with that game). Crystal Bearers is not the best game in the world, but neither is it a horrible game either. I guess people just wanted something different.

Saga is on GREE, Seiken Densetsu is dead, Ivalice is forgotten, Tactic Ogre will never come back,

SAGA, Seiken Densetsu & Front Mission are all dead for a reason (part of that is that the games weren't that good, part was that the sales weren't there either).

they shat on Parasite Eve or so I heard

3rd Birthday is a fun game. It's got a story from Toriyama, so... yeah, that's where all the bad press comes from, but as a game there was nothing wrong with it (except it was kinda short, but it has some replay value).

Last remnant was ages ago (2008).

It was released during the current generation, so it deserves a mention (well, the PC version does...).

Again problem isn't with their handheld output I said as much earlier.

I don't find any point in separating the games that way. Last year they released three games that I bought, two of which I enjoyed immensely and one that was decent. Shitting on them because the many fun games they've developed in recent years weren't on your platform(s) of choice is stupid.

Famassu why do you keep lumping in their handheld titles and console titles?

Why are you guys separating them? THAT's what's silly. It's the same company making all these games. If we are talking about Square Enix, we don't lump out a part of their production for stupid reasons.

I'm not denying they didn't have problems which resulted in games like XIII & XIV 1.0, but those problems seem to have been solved and fixing XIV, LR being made and Versus XIII's delayed development are the aftermath from that. These kinds of statements:

I've accepted Squaresoft is dead and like most of their great developers, have moved on. I think the company is in a world of hurt, but my be able to stay propped up thru their high return mobile offerings.

are moronic. A company that has released some of the top games in the JRPG genre within the last few years is dead just because of XIII & older version of XIV? That's a laughable statement from some nostalgic butthurt fan who hasn't actually played 90% of their releases in recent years.

Square-Enix's best bet is to make sure XIV doesn't bomb(again), get LR out and hope enough people buy the game and fast track the shit out of Versus and chalk everything else up to a poor generation for them and start fresh with the new systems and not repeat the same mistakes

That's what they are basically doing, have you not been following Square Enix's doings at all?

With the exception that it's stupid to suggest they should abandon the one game this generation that could return some status for the FF franchise. Versus XIII's development is far along, they shouldn't cancel it now that they are finally on track of getting back to their feet.

 

[Mael]

Mael you sure like talking a lot about something you hate.

People usually talk about things they love/hate, for example I don't think you want to see me talk about Metroid Other M, we'll be 10 pages later by the time I'm finished.

I absolutely love Monolith Soft and the part of Square Enix that put out games I want, I also absolutely abhor the other part of SE.
If they split good SE from bad SE you'd never see me talking about bad SE ever again.
Same way you never saw me talk about Saint Row or that Amalur game, but that's more apathy than hate.

 

[MechaX]

Mael hating SE, Famassu defending SE to the death...

All we need here is Shinta and LuuKyK and we'll have the natural progression of every SE-related thread as of late.

 

[Persona86]

People usually talk about things they love/hate, for example I don't think you want to see me talk about Metroid Other M, we'll be 10 pages later by the time I'm finished.

I absolutely love Monolith Soft and the part of Square Enix that put out games I want, I also absolutely abhor the other part of SE.
If they split good SE from bad SE you'd never see me talking about bad SE ever again.
Same way you never saw me talk about Saint Row or that Amalur game, but that's more apathy than hate.

Ah yeah I understand now, makes sense!

 

[Portugeezer]

Square Enix should feel ashamed... and isn't this Monoliths first HD game? Just makes it worse.

 

[Mael]

Mael hating SE, Famassu defending SE to the death...

All we need here is Shinta and LuuKyK and we'll have the natural progression of every SE-related thread as of late.

That's the 1rst SE thread I'm even part of!

 

[MechaX]

That's the 1rst SE thread I'm even part of!

Less emphasis on your involvement, more emphasis on the involvement of the remaining three.

 

[Narolf]

Mael hating SE, Famassu defending SE to the death...

All we need here is Shinta and LuuKyK and we'll have the natural progression of every SE-related thread as of late.

Better than your fan-fiction.​

How many cycles have we gone through at this point?

 

[Mael]

Less emphasis on your involvement, more emphasis on the involvement of the remaining three.

Good point, I woudln't know about that.

My god, you're an idiot.

And with that I won't bother with you anymore.
If you can't bother to be civil I won't bother with you at all.

I've played plenty of great games from Square Enix, that's all I care about. I don't give a shit about some idiotic, inane requirements for this or that many games to be on these or those platforms withinin X or Y years. When their handheld efforts are as impressive as they are, it doesn't matter.

Are you doing this on purpose?
The reason why the platform is important is BECAUSE they've had so many pb with scaling their dev.
What works on lower demanding projects becomes a liability when your scale is too big, that is the very reason people are sceptic with Vs and treat it as vaporware!

Nier is still a new IP they decided to fund. Also, Star Ocean is all Tri-Ace (there's no creative staff/control from Square Enix's side with that game). Crystal Bearers is not the best game in the world, but neither is it a horrible game either. I guess people just wanted something different.

SAGA, Seiken Densetsu & Front Mission are all dead for a reason (part of that is that the games weren't that good, part was that the sales weren't there either).

Saga isn't dead, Emperors was released last year we still don't know on what Kawazu is working on.
Last Front Mission did bad but not worse than some other times, it may have something coming (especially if the manga is doing well, that I have no idea though)
Seiken is DEAD because Ishii not longer works at SE.

With that said, see you never.

 

[Kagari]

Just to make sure Lightning Returns is the last part of Toriyama's waifu storyline for the console, right? Or are they gonna try and milk as many games from this game engine as possible?

Should be the last.
I hope they put Crystal Tools and its terribleness to bed soon.

 

[TunaLover]

Square Enix should feel ashamed... and isn't this Monoliths first HD game? Just makes it worse.

Xenoblade graphic engine is in another level, I couldn't believe that draw distance on Wii with al the details running to stable framerate (with no many enemies on screen).

 

[Paracelsus]

Xenoblade graphic engine is in another level, I couldn't believe that draw distance on Wii with al the details running to stable framerate (with no many enemies on screen).

For all you know it could be running on Xenoblade's assets. FFXII looks better than FFXIII when PCSX2ed.

 

[CorvoSol]

Better than your fan-fiction.​

How many cycles have we gone through at this point?

I beg to differ, my fan fiction is beautiful as evidenced by Femmeworth almost forgiving my unforgivable sin of spoiling VLR.



Anyway, I'd just like to settle how I feel on this since we're talking about our feelings right now.

1) I love handheld Square. They've put out legitimately good games that cater to my tastes consistently since at least 08. Dissidia and its sequel, Type-0, TWEWY, Four Heroes of Light, all of these I have played and sincerely loved. I've sunk at least 200 hours between two Dissidia games, plus at least another 120 between the other 3. They're quality titles and the people who've worked on them deserve credit. Crisis Core and Third Birthday, wretched plots aside, were also good fun.

2)iOS Square is not pure, unadulterated evil. TAY might be middling, but FFD is a very solid, if condensed Final Fantasy experience. Yes, Airborne Brigade and All the Bravest are crap, but there is some good there.

3)Console Square has been an amazing disappointment to me. I should state, most emphatically, that I did enjoy FFXIII and FFXIII-2. Running around Pulse, as I have said a million times over, is really a fun thing to do. It's pretty, spacious, and the battle system is fast paced. The music and visuals are lovely. But all of this just leaves me to realize how much more it could've been, especially when I consider FFXII and FFIX next to it. Every aspect of XIII and its sequel only serve to illustrate what a wasted opportunity it really was, how much greater it could have been.

4)I like Lightning, but I'm really sick of her now, too. She hasn't even been the same character since FFXIII, and since she was my favorite part of the game's story, seeing her altered and removed from the equation has also altered and removed from the equation any connection or interest I had in the XIII series' plot. It's time she took her seat in the protagonist pantheon and passed the torch along.

5)Square as a company has, to my eyes, well and truly mismanaged itself this generation. XIII not having a solid form until the demo is glaring enough, but then 14's crash and burn comes along, and their hellish translation policies (and no, Famassu, it does not matter if the PSP was prone to piracy, because they released it in Japan anyway and its not like there aren't pirates there, and more to the point they have had ample time to SAY SOMETHING, ANYTHING AT ALL about the game's status, instead of just pulling a Nintendo of America and pretending Earthbound doesn't exist.). Ultimately, its hard not to hate on them, because they leave themselves so completely open for it. Maybe if Square spent ten minutes reviewing its own history before letting Toriyama say ridiculous things about Lightning, or if they wisely toned down their avarice in ATB, people wouldn't have so much to say about them right now.

But to sum it all up: Hand Held Square? Yes. Console Square? Hell no. Not until Versus comes out.

 

[Hero]

They keep on developing Kingdom Hearts on hand-held for the following.

Question 2: What are the differences between console development and handheld development?

TN: The touch and feel of the PSP is similar to that of the PS2, so in that sense, developing for the PSP wasn't all that different. In fact, that's what we intended. The focus with this title is good, solid gameplay.

Read more: http://kh13.com/forum/topic/6981-ki...sleep-tetsuya-nomura-interview/#ixzz2IzkuLjkp


As it stands, Kingdom Hearts 3 will be on consoles, albeit it's an idea I no longer back, similarly to Versus not being renamed into XV.

2016: Dissidia 3 Ps3 & Vita (cross-buy) + Kingdom Hearts 3 Vita & 3DS (honestly, I stopped believing in KH ever since KH2, this series can keep on contracting its case of tardis of moe aninimu :3 bastardization on handhelds; not to mention Nomura said in an interview he wanted it to remain close to the Ps2 episodes in visuals so that handhelds are the perfect support; also, KH3 would be released ten years after KH2).

http://dissidiaforums.com/showthrea...-Battle-Royale&p=402480&viewfull=1#post402480​

They can say what they want but if that were true then we would've gotten a Kingdom Hearts 3 game out of them, instead we got endless spin-offs that again fragmented the user base at best or made fans get fatigued from it.

I've played plenty of great games from Square Enix, that's all I care about. I don't give a shit about some idiotic, inane requirements for this or that many games to be on these or those platforms withinin X or Y years. When their handheld efforts are as impressive as they are, it doesn't matter.


I don't find any point in separating the games that way. Last year they released three games that I bought, two of which I enjoyed immensely and one that was decent. Shitting on them because the many fun games they've developed in recent years weren't on your platform(s) of choice is stupid.

Why are you guys separating them? THAT's what's silly. It's the same company making all these games. If we are talking about Square Enix, we don't lump out a part of their production for stupid reasons.

I'm not denying they didn't have problems which resulted in games like XIII & XIV 1.0, but those problems seem to have been solved and fixing XIV, LR being made and Versus XIII's delayed development are the aftermath from that. These kinds of statements:


are moronic. A company that has released some of the top games in the JRPG genre within the last few years is dead just because of XIII & older version of XIV? That's a laughable statement from some nostalgic butthurt fan who hasn't actually played 90% of their releases in recent years.

That's what they are basically doing, have you not been following Square Enix's doings at all?

With the exception that it's stupid to suggest they should abandon the one game this generation that could return some status for the FF franchise. Versus XIII's development is far along, they shouldn't cancel it now that they are finally on track of getting back to their feet.

The reason we separate them is because not everyone has access to every single system. Do you think your logic works for Sony fans and Vita owners?

"Sony development teams make great games on the PS3, who cares if they don't release any good titles on the Vita?" Do you find that acceptable?

Not to mention that Square-Enix is one of the biggest Japanese third parties.

Also lol, of course I follow Square-Enix. I'm saying that's the best case scenario they have right now. And I'm still standing by the opinion that Lightning Returns is one of the biggest mistakes of the generation. It might sell on par with FFXIII-2 in Japan but it would absolutely fail worldwide. You can say it's a quick, easy game for them to do with the engine and re-using assets but is it worth further damaging the brand? I doubt it.

 

[fates]

Nostalgia not only filters peoples' memories, it downright makes them vicious about new material.

The amount of people with this bitter "I WANT S-E to fail" is really kind of childish.

Nobody wants SE to fail. That's partly why this is frustrating seeing them do this to themselves.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Square's mobile and handheld fronts are strong. Console front is lacking.

 

[Narolf]

My insightful guess, as well as many people's, is that you will hear about Kingdom Hearts 3 once they are done with Versus.

 

[MagiusNecros]

LR+XIV=Late 2013

Versus=Late 2014

KH3=2016

Type 0 International or Type-1= 2015 or 2017

 

[ffdgh]

Sora is going to sound so old by 2016...

 

[MYE]

People are still this excited for Versus?

Just do another FF9 style game Squareenix, sigh
I'm so tired of these typical Nomura-designed characters and J-teen drama games with retarded "futuristic" designs