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[MosquitoSmasher]

Yup. I didn't expect that at all. Looks great.

Hell yeah. And i really don't care if they don't get this at native 4K, no way in hell was i expecting native 4K when a game looks this insanely good. DF said it several times that you can barely see the difference between native 4K and checkerboard, so if it ends up looking like this video i am happy as hell. And to think i watched it on a shitty 1080p 22 inch pc monitor. I haven't even seen this video properly yet

 

[dawid]

I feel that DF is getting high on their own supply with these guess-work "analysis"-videos of trailers. This is 9 minutes of nothing, because that's really all you can get out of a short trailer from an alpha-game.

If they like doing videos like this and people like watching them i guess i can't blame them too much. But at some point grasping for substance from nothing just looks dumb.. and i think we've might have passed that one.

 

[KageMaru]

I don't select anything... false claims from companies needs to called out.

Why I will call them out on their correct claims??? Makes no sense lol

So if I go through your post history, I can expect to see you trolling Sony for calling the Pro a 4K console?

Did you honestly think that the "true 4K" line meant every game would be native 4K? You can spin it however way you want but you are selectively choosing what to focus on and what to ignore.

i'm not even talking downgrades. just the natural passing of time and expectations being adjusted based on other games releasing.

Oh I see, sorry since you mentioned Division, I thought you meant downgrades since that game did see a downgrade. Yeah there's always the possibility of it not looking quite as impressive at the end of next year. Considering how many games we already know is scheduled for 2018 though, I think the chances are high that it'll still look impressive at the end of next year.

Both are machines that can delivery 4k with Scorpio being the stronger one. Said that both lacks the horse power to delivery 4k for most games.

The "true"/"false" 4k narrative is shameful.

How do you know some of these 2160c games couldn't be run natively with lower settings but the developers chose to go the current route because it provided a more impressive presentation? Fact is we don't know and trolling over marketing speak isn't going to stop it from happening.

 

[michaelius]

If it's 4k checkerboard on X then it's probably 720p on One S or 900p with drops - can't wait to see how that competes with ps4pro.

 

[texhnolyze]

I don't select anything... false claims from companies needs to called out.

Sure, I did my part as well.

But are you going to call them out in every XBX thread in Gaf?

There's a place for that (a couple threads, even).

 

[ethomaz]

The True 4K was about the ability to deliver Xbone games in 4k. Developers taking the next step and delivering higher settings at the expense of a native resolution does not make that statement untrue.

The Pro is incapable of running games that don't already have plenty of headroom on Ps4 in native 4k, the jury's still out on Xbonex if that's the case, but choosing games that decided to go over the "Xbone games in native 4k at the same settings and framerate" promise to say they are lying only makes the argument itself a joke.

Most Xbox games won't run at 4k even at the same settings on XB1X... the games that are accurate to say they will run 4k are the ones that are 1080p on XB1 already.



To KageMaru.
Yes you can look. I was one of supporters that native 4k at PS4 graphic settings was something the weaker Pro can't delivery in most games... I even called delusional the guys expecting 4k from Pro.

 

[gamz]

It was confirmed on yesterday daily show from the EA director that the footage was captured right off Xbox One X

Damn!

 

[adamsapple]

It even helps on PC tbh. I used it in Watch Dogs 2 for 1440p and the results were fantastic (with + resolution scaling and very light sharpening).

CBR is a smart thing to use across the board and I'm happy more companies are using this, it's a great thing especially for consoles which are already power starved, let's developers provide great image quality, way above normal 1080p, at minimal loss to performance.

Cross posting this from the AC Origins topic. Credit to users ISee and danhese007 for making this CBR comparison using Watch Dogs 2 on PC.

Increase from 36 to 53 frames per second with some very minor visual downgrades which should be neigh-imperceptible in motion. It also has less of a memory footprint on the CB side and also quicker response time (19ms to 25ms).

Original 4K images for above .gif


Watch_Dogs 2 2160c
Watch_Dogs 2 2160p

 

[Trup1aya]

Checkerboarding is an amazing technological accomplishement. There's really nothing to talk down.

Phil's goal with the xb1x was a device powerful enough push 900p current games to native 4K w/o compromise. That's where he says his approach differs from the pro, which often requires checkerboarding to get current games to 4K.

Now that we have a device capable of doing that, doesn't mean devs should all use the boxes power in this manner. Personally I hope they don't, because Checkerboarding provides all the clarity I need + allows for higher settings.

From where i sit from my TV, pushing native 4K uses a ton of horsepower for little benefit.

 

[RebornYeti]

Where's the rage about it not being 60fps?

Because we are currently in a GAF cycle. The rage will come I'm sure, but for now it's all about dat 4K.

 

[Symbiotx]

Because we are currently in a GAF cycle. The rage will come I'm sure, but for now it's all about dat 4K.

Heh, yeah I certainly enjoy 4k. I just am dumbfounded by how much of the opposite this thread is from the Destiny 2 threads.

One is all OMFG IT'S 2017 WHEREZ THE FRAMES WTF PRE-ORDER CANCELLED

And the other is all cool 4k rawks, checkerboarding is actually pretty dope.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

It even helps on PC tbh. I used it in Watch Dogs 2 for 1440p and the results were fantastic (with + resolution scaling and very light sharpening).

I wish more devs would support it, my 1070/6700k combo is already the perfect 1440p machine

 

[LukasTaves]

Most Xbox games won't run at 4k even at the same settings on XB1X... the games that are accurate to say they will run 4k are the ones that are 1080p on XB1 already.



To KageMaru.
Yes you can look. I was one of supporters that native 4k at PS4 graphic settings was something the weaker Pro can't delivery in most games.

And you know that how? Given that even developers have said that going 900p to 4k native gives some headroom for improving graphics, and we even had one game going from 720p 60 to 4k native at 40fps "with the most basic porting"

 

[ISee]

I wish more devs would support it, my 1070/6700k combo is already the perfect 1440p machine

I absolutely agree. It should stay optional on PC, because some people are only happy with the very best (and that's obviously ok) but I'd also like to see this implemented into more engines/games on PC.

 

[LukasTaves]

Where's the rage about it not being 60fps?

Because one game looks really close to the first game that was a bit underwhelming visually already.

The other looks so good people didn't even believed it was actually running on a xbonex.

 

[Space_nut]

Most Xbox games won't run at 4k even at the same settings on XB1X... the games that are accurate to say they will run 4k are the ones that are 1080p on XB1 already.



To KageMaru.
Yes you can look. I was one of supporters that native 4k at PS4 graphic settings was something the weaker Pro can't delivery in most games.

Not true

Every dev said they could get to 4k easily with headroom before adding mass amounts of graphical improvements like Gears 4 and Forza 7. That's why you don't see any game on Xbox One X running at same settings as base model X1

 

[ethomaz]

And you know that how? Given that even developers have said that going 900p to 4k native gives some headroom for improving graphics, and we even had one game going from 720p 60 to 4k native at 40fps "with the most basic porting"

Where are these games?

I know because that is the technical power inside Xbox One X... it is what the techs specs are about.

But maybe there are some secret sauce that was not talked about yet... who knows.

 

[RebornYeti]

Heh, yeah I certainly enjoy 4k. I just am dumbfounded by how much of the opposite this thread is from the Destiny 2 threads.

One is all OMFG IT'S 2017 WHEREZ THE FRAMES WTF PRE-ORDER CANCELLED

And the other is all cool 4k rawks, checkerboarding is actually pretty dope.

Yeah, that is kinda weird haha. I'm thinking that a lot of people had the high expectation of 60fps for Destiny 2 so that's where that discussion comes from. I know that my friends that are diehard Destiny fans were all pretty disappointed that it isn't 60fps on consoles, so now they're contemplating on forking out money to build PCs just to play Destiny 2 at 60+FPS lol

 

[Lord Error]

In a way, it's a shame that Spencer has tried to talk down the PS4 Pro, as it appears he was delegitimizing the technique that XB1X will be using - and more importantly *should* be using. I think that really a lot of people don't fully realise just how freaking good 2160p checkerboarded looks on a 4K TV (or downsampled to 1080p). The (still small) problems with this technique are only ever visible on static screenshots of faster moving scenes, something that our eyes just don't pick up while the game is being played. On the other hand the amount of rendering power it saves is immense, and that power should, whenever possible, be used on anything else IMO, but pursuing the full 4K, simply because the checkerboarded 4K already looks nearly indistinguishable to our eyes in practice.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Proving two things. The Xbox One X gameplay was real, and that game developers will usually do the smarter thing in order to crank visual effects and settings to a higher level. Pretty much what I've always wanted devs to do if needed. Most can't even tell the difference between one particular resolution from another.

 

[KageMaru]

Not true

Every dev said they could get to 4k easily with headroom before adding mass amounts of graphical improvements like Gears 4 and Forza 7. That's why you don't see any game on Xbox One X running at same settings as base model X1

You can't take comments made by two studios and apply it to every dev.

 

[pswii60]

It looks great but I don't think it's any more impressive than games like Horizon ZD. It all looks a little UE3 to me too, that tired UE3 colour palette.

 

[Kaako]

In a way, it's a shame that Spencer has tried to talk down the PS4 Pro, as it appears he was delegitimizing the technique that XB1X will be using - and more importantly *should* be using. I think that really a lot of people don't fully realise just how freaking good 2160p checkerboarded looks on a 4K TV (or downsampled to 1080p). The (still small) problems with this technique are only ever visible on static screenshots of faster moving scenes, something that our eyes just don't pick up while the game is being played. On the other hand the amount of rendering power it saves is immense, and that power should, whenever possible, be used on anything else IMO, but pursuing the full 4K, simply because the checkerboarded 4K already looks nearly indistinguishable to our eyes in practice.

Yup in hindsight they look like clowns downplaying CBR because it was a technique their competitor was using lol. Especially since the best looking games on the X will be using CBR as well. Anyone who downplayed CBR looks like a fool now tbh. CBR is here for a good reason and it's here to stay.

 

[Trup1aya]

Where are these games?

I know because that is the technical power inside Xbox One X... it is what the techs specs are about.

But maybe there are some secret sauce that was not talked about yet... who knows.

The xb1x is more than 4 times the power of the xb1, with much a much improved memory solution. It should get more than 4 times the performance, regularly. The sauce isn't secret.

 

[LukasTaves]

Where are these games?

I know because that is the technical power inside Xbox One X... it is what the techs specs are about.

But maybe there are some secret sauce that was not talked about yet... who knows.

The games were examples leaked in Ms documents to other developers, and given the current checkerboard games already delivering higher settings than any other xbone game, that's more evidence already than the none you provided.

 

[bombshell]

Is there going to be a thread you don't post this in?

Someone is upset, haha.

That "demo" looked ridiculous, I figured it was just a "target" running on PCs. Maybe....maybe not.

I have posted it in 2 threads, the 2 threads where it's relevant to bring up that Phil should maybe tone down the talk about Xbox One X not using anything else than native 4K. Are you mad that it's brought up?

 

[theWB27]

Where are these games?

I know because that is the technical power inside Xbox One X... it is what the techs specs are about.

But maybe there are some secret sauce that was not talked about yet... who knows.

I don't get what satisfaction people get from trolling like this. It's so strange to see on a consistent basis.

 

[LukasTaves]

The xb1x is more than 4 times the power of the xb1, with much a much improved memory solution. It should get more than 4 times the performance, regularly. The sauce isn't secret.

4.5 times, in processing power alone.

And as outlined by other games such as forza, increasing the resolution by 4 required "only" a 3.5 times processing power because of efficiencies of the architecture. So delivering 900p in 4k isn't that quite out of the ordinary when even we do have one example of a 720p game being already in reach.

 

[Trup1aya]

I have posted it in 2 threads, the 2 threads where it's relevant to bring up that Phil should maybe tone down the talk about Xbox One X not using anything else than native 4K. Are you mad that it's brought up?

When did he ever Say the Xbox would never use anything other than native 4K? He explicitly said from the start that devs can do what they want. He said the target for the hardware was a system capable of pushing 900p xbox games to native 4K. Whether or not developers take that approach is up to them.

 

[Quixz]

Where's the rage about it not being 60fps?

Everyone is being realistic. There's no way a huge open world that detailed would hit 60FPS without extreme compromises

 

[ktroopa]

Everyone is being realistic. There's no way a huge open world that detailed would hit 60FPS without extreme compromises

This

 

[Trup1aya]

4.5 times, in processing power alone.

And as outlined by other games such as forza, increasing the resolution by 4 required "only" a 3.5 times processing power because of efficiencies of the architecture. So delivering 900p in 4k isn't that quite out of the ordinary when even we do have one example of a 720p game being already in reach.

Yeah I expect 720p games making the jump to be a rarity.

I expect 900p games will be doable with some extra work.

1080p games should easily be able to hit that spec

Whether or not any developers choose to go this route is a different story. Devs should do what they want. I like checkerboarding myself because I'm more partial to the high setting than I am native 4K.

 

[bombshell]

When did he ever Say the Xbox would never use anything other than native 4K? He explicitly said from the start that devs can do what they want. He said the target for the hardware was a system capable of pushing 900p xbox games to native 4K. Whether or not developers take that approach is up to them.

To Eurogamer, 2 days ago:

"Are you not worried about being $100 more expensive than the PS4 Pro?"

Phil Spencer: "I look at Pro as more of a competitor to S than I do to Xbox One X. This is a true 4K console. If you just look at the specs of what this box is, it's in a different league than any other console that's out there. When I think about techniques to somehow manufacture a 4K screen like what some other consoles try to do, this is different than that."

Before you all go "But he's talking first party only!!!", no, he brings up Anthem as an example in the very next sentence.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-06-12-the-big-interview-xbox-boss-phil-spencer

 

[onQ123]

I figured this was 2160c, especially since the technology is already integrated in the engine. Looks great and still impressed as hell with it. Noticed the ground details popping in when looking over high quality footage. I imagine they assume most won't notice when moving in high speeds or while flying.

Interested to see how the other systems stack up.



If I were to guess the spin on this, the real 4K talk likely points to the possibility of current gen AAA games possibly hitting 4K. We haven't seen that on the Pro yet, have we?

Well it is

 

[nstine]

This game is absolutely gorgeous. Depending on how it turns out this could mark Bioware's return to form. I wish them luck and I'm excited to see more of Anthem in the future.

As for the resolution narrative that's been going on lately, I think MS should tone down the True 4K rhetoric a bit. It sets the expectation for the general public that every game will be native 4k. When any game is announced as not being native 4k 100% of the time it inevitably leads to mocking and fighting over marketing statements rather than discussing the games themselves or the technical merits of the techniques used to make the games. I mean I'm blown away that Anthem looks as good as it does on console hardware and it makes me excited for the future of gaming, regardless of how the devs got there.

That said, the hardware being capable of 4k and developers choosing to use that power in other ways is NOT contradictory. MS just needs to do a better job of managing expectations by emphasizing developer's choice in the matter as much as they focus on True 4k. It's understandably cleaner and easier to market True 4k as a selling point than it is to say "True 4k BUT it's up to developers," but I think it's important they try to get that point across.

 

[KageMaru]

I have posted it in 2 threads, the 2 threads where it's relevant to bring up that Phil should maybe tone down the talk about Xbox One X not using anything else than native 4K. Are you mad that it's brought up?

Wait did Phil really say the X wouldn't be using anything else than native 4K? Honest question because it's hard to keep up with all the comments and news sometimes.

4.5 times, in processing power alone.

And as outlined by other games such as forza, increasing the resolution by 4 required "only" a 3.5 times processing power because of efficiencies of the architecture. So delivering 900p in 4k isn't that quite out of the ordinary when even we do have one example of a 720p game being already in reach.

Do you have a link or quote for the 3.5 times claim? I can see efficiencies improving performance but by that much?

Still if the demands were linear with performance requirements, 900p games should be possible at 4K. I'm thinking the problem developers are seeing is that a higher resolution will also do a better job at showing the flaws in a scene. So a game may overall look better at 2160c with higher settings than a native 4K game with XBO settings. I expect mostly 1080p XBO games to provide enough headroom for native 4k and improved settings on the X.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Yup in hindsight they look like clowns downplaying CBR because it was a technique their competitor was using lol. Especially since the best looking games on the X will be using CBR as well. Anyone who downplayed CBR looks like a fool now tbh. CBR is here for a good reason and it's here to stay.

Microsoft said from the get go it's a technique they would use also. And people do realize that checkerboard rendering can happen/start at all kinds of different resolutions, right? One X using checkerboard rendering wouldn't mean it's base resolution isn't still meaningfully higher than the starting resolution of the PS4 pro version of a game. I see an effort to focus JUST on the use of checkerboarding while ignoring key details of the differences that can exist.

Use of checkerboarding does not mean the two systems are taking on equivalent graphics loads. Not at all.

 

[adamsapple]

Well it is

but it's not .. CBR you're still getting the same number pixels as a 2160p image. You're not blowing up an image of a lower resolution to a higher resolution display.

 

[Tripolygon]

Increase from 36 to 53 frames per second with some very minor visual downgrades which should be neigh-imperceptible in motion. It also has less of a memory footprint on the CB side and also quicker response time (19ms to 25ms)

This right here. Coupled with things like VRR/Freesync that Xbox OX supports should have people more excited for CBR. It allows developers to target high frame-rate without sacrificing a lot for visuals. I truely can't wait for next gen when these things become standard and TV manufacturers start to add VRR support in TVs.

 

[MaulerX]

Hell yeah. And i really don't care if they don't get this at native 4K, no way in hell was i expecting native 4K when a game looks this insanely good. DF said it several times that you can barely see the difference between native 4K and checkerboard, so if it ends up looking like this video i am happy as hell. And to think i watched it on a shitty 1080p 22 inch pc monitor. I haven't even seen this video properly yet

Lmao, same thing ran thru my mind when I first saw this.

 

[onQ123]

but it's not .. CBR you're still getting the same number pixels as a 2160p image. You're not blowing up an image of a lower resolution to a higher resolution display.

That would be upscaling

 

[HeelPower]

Right now.I dont believe this is real.

Bioware is gonna be in hot water once reality sets in😆

I dont say this just because Consoles cant handle it but I also dont think a dev can realistically create a full game looking and running like that.

 

[JP]

I agree

I'm sure they'll cover it at some point, I think at teh moment though it;s pretty safe to say that Forza 7, as well as other first party Microsoft games, will be running at the highest level possible on Scorpio.

Also, I thought it was worth adding about what you said earlier. There should never be a reason for people on to apologise for the quality of their English when it isnlt their first language, anybody who comments on places like this when English isn't their first language, should get nothing but respect for being able to do that.

 

[Trup1aya]

To Eurogamer, 2 days ago:

"Are you not worried about being $100 more expensive than the PS4 Pro?"

Phil Spencer: "I look at Pro as more of a competitor to S than I do to Xbox One X. This is a true 4K console. If you just look at the specs of what this box is, it's in a different league than any other console that's out there. When I think about techniques to somehow manufacture a 4K screen like what some other consoles try to do, this is different than that."

Before you all go "But he's talking first party only!!!", no, he brings up Anthem as an example in the very next sentence.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-06-12-the-big-interview-xbox-boss-phil-spencer

Again. His stated goal was to deliever a console capable of pushing a 900p games to 4K natively. That's what the xb1 is.

If developers choose to use the power differently so be it.

Some devs will choose higher settings over native 4K.

 

[Exploratory]

Heh, yeah I certainly enjoy 4k. I just am dumbfounded by how much of the opposite this thread is from the Destiny 2 threads.

One is all OMFG IT'S 2017 WHEREZ THE FRAMES WTF PRE-ORDER CANCELLED

And the other is all cool 4k rawks, checkerboarding is actually pretty dope.

Because Anthem looks like a next gen game and Destiny 2 looks like a launch title from this gen.

 

[Christocolus]

Hell yeah. And i really don't care if they don't get this at native 4K, no way in hell was i expecting native 4K when a game looks this insanely good. DF said it several times that you can barely see the difference between native 4K and checkerboard, so if it ends up looking like this video i am happy as hell. And to think i watched it on a shitty 1080p 22 inch pc monitor. I haven't even seen this video properly yet

Anthem looked amazing and this is just an alpha build on the unfinished dev kits and remember Jez talked about an October update which will be made to the final SDKs.

https://mobile.twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/875012417217888256

 

[adamsapple]

That would be upscaling

As opposed to up-rendering ? If it helps bring image quality to native 4K levels without having the game run at 15 FPS, It's a good trade off regardless of what you want to title it.

I, for one, also welcome our up-rending overlords

 

[AlStrong]

Do you have a link or quote for the 3.5 times claim? I can see efficiencies improving performance but by that much?

It's based on the whitepaper. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ace-to-4k-how-scorpio-targets-ultra-hd-gaming

I suspect it's due to quad occupancy & triangle size. Plus there's the larger L2 cache for texture ops.

You can somewhat see this in 4Pro titles that take 1080p base titles to 1800p or higher, but that's usually a straight increase with no other enchantment.

 

[bigfurb]

Microsoft said from the get go it's a technique they would use also. And people do realize that checkerboard rendering can happen/start at all kinds of different resolutions, right? One X using checkerboard rendering wouldn't mean it's base resolution isn't still meaningfully higher than the starting resolution of the PS4 pro version of a game. I see an effort to focus JUST on the use of checkerboarding while ignoring key details of the differences that can exist.

Use of checkerboarding does not mean the two systems are taking on equivalent graphics loads. Not at all.

All I know is there was a lot of ridicule thrown at the pro about it's use of checkerboard rendering. Terms like FauxK were often used mockingly to distinguish the difference between Pro games and Scorpio and its true4K games. It's been the sole thing that xbox youtube trolls like crapgamer based most of their content on. I wish i could say it was just in places like that but a lot of that type of stuff was on Neogaf too.

 

[Space_nut]

And it's not just about res. Bringing in a 4k game is also 4k assets which pro can't do with the low amount of extra ram over base consoles. This is what Phil means in true 4k