He gets paid based on views. He's trying to generate views.7900XTX? Is he serious or trolling?
Future video: PS5 Pro can do pathtracing? What went wrong?
7900XTX? Is he serious or trolling?
Well then why did you make the title about PT?I'm making this thread ficusing less on PT and more so to archive Richard's prediction of PS5 Pro vs 7900XTX RT performance overall and revisit once the eventual head to head comparisons are conducted.
Sorry, this might be a stupid question. Did Killzone: Shadow Fall have path tracing?
DF is right OP. Of course the PS5 Pro isn't going to be running path traced games lol
Well then why did you make the title about PT?
I happen to agree with them on the Path Finding side of things. I think they are spot on in highlighting Sony's own examples. I also think Alex is 100% correct when pointing out that RT has multiple steps and its likely Sony is only accelerating some of them, so don't take the 2x 4x comments as indicative of the whole. These are developer focused notes remember. I'm no blind DF fan, been more than happy to point out their hypocrisy in the past. But on this topic, yeah don't expect path tracing from the Pro. Do expect much better frames with moderate RT improvements over the standard machine though. Everything about the Pro should always be looked at as an extension for the standard machine, not new generational leaps. Which PT is.
Which GPU are they comparing it to? I think for what it will likely cost, 7700XT perf would be welcome and pretty damn good with 1st party optimizations. Hell maybe that's even a lofty goal.Even PS5 can do path tracing. Question about Pro is: how fast it can do it?
In most calculations 7900XTX will be ~1.8x faster than Pro.
Based on leaks, it seems like it will match 7700XT (and potentially exceed depending on RDNA3.5 optimizations). RTRT is a big question mark, but 2x-4x is above 7800XT territory. PSSR is harder to quantify obviously so that remains to be seen.Which GPU are they comparing it to? I think for what it will likely cost, 7700XT perf would be welcome and pretty damn good with 1st party optimizations. Hell maybe that's even a lofty goal.
Hopefully. I would think if AMD found a way to get more rays with less watts we would probably already know about it though.Based on leaks, it seems like it will match 7700XT (and potentially exceed depending on RDNA3.5 optimizations). RTRT is a big question mark, but 2x-4x is above 7800XT territory. PSSR is harder to quantify obviously so that remains to be seen.
I would be perfectly happy with average ~45% increase in raster along with adding RTRT shadows / AO to a bunch of titles. The raster alone will smooth out a lot of low res / unstable FPS games and adding some RTRT will make the game look better rounded. PSSR should make the final result look great even on larger TVs.Hopefully. I would think if AMD found a way to get more rays with less watts we would probably already know about it though.
Which GPU are they comparing it to? I think for what it will likely cost, 7700XT perf would be welcome and pretty damn good with 1st party optimizations. Hell maybe that's even a lofty goal.
PSSR to me is the wildcard. Hopefully Sony found someone to make them some really special sauce. It would be a very wise investment for a console maker. I don't think we'll be breezing through 4k RT for a couple more GPU gens. Not even really close now and when PS4 first came out everyone thought it was right around the corner.I would be perfectly happy with average ~45% increase in raster along with adding RTRT shadows / AO to a bunch of titles. The raster alone will smooth out a lot of low res / unstable FPS games and adding some RTRT will make the game look better rounded. PSSR should make the final result look great even on larger TVs.
TLW: Cynical no's and dismissiveness from the DF Team. I'm making this thread ficusing less on PT and more so to archive Richard's prediction of PS5 Pro vs 7900XTX RT performance overall and revisit once the eventual head to head comparisons are conducted.
My 3090 used to run it okay ishWhat does it take to run Minecraft RTX at a decent framerate?
You're on about thisSorry, this might be a stupid question. Did Killzone: Shadow Fall have path tracing?
Their coverage of the Pro has been shockingly bad, like drawing teeth to get them to acknowledge it might actually be worthwhile. But their coverage on the RT side of things whilst maybe inheriting some of the flavor has imho been accurate. The 2x 4x comment need to be viewed through a developer lens, what exactly is it doing faster and what will that actually look like in a game. eg, ok you can double the performance, so maybe double the rays which means what? Higher resolution reflections for example? Or better defined shadows? Or added RT shadows. All alluded to in the documents. But what is not alluded to is Path Tracing and massive upgrades that presumably would also have a CPU impact. This being the exact opposite of what Sony is trying to achieve.Now Digital Foundry trying their best to downplay the PS5 Pro capabilities.
They've asked it, what they aren't doing is try to answer it. Certainly don't ever look at the PS5 design philosophy and implementation. Totally out of bounds for DF.The real question they should ask is why Xbox isn’t outperforming the PS5 like they claimed it would based on the teraflops differentiator.
Sure - but either you take the leaked docs at face value or you don't.The 2x 4x comment need to be viewed through a developer lens, what exactly is it doing faster and what will that actually look like in a game.
Unless there are path traced games on the Pro, it’ll get destroyed by the 7900 XTX. What are you going to revisit exactly?
Frankly I struggle to see how the 7900xtx can overcome PS5 Pro IMAGE QUALITY OUTPUT (not raw raster) in RT workloads if those numbers and PSSR is legit.
I don't see much use in comparing to RDNA 3 because of the RT and AI upscaling, which are the highlights of the Pro console. As I said elsewhere, from a final image quality/output perspective, I'd be surprised if even one game with RT implementation looks better on flagship RDNA 3 compared to PS5 Pro.
The documents did provide context. Thats literally what the examples were added for.Ultimately performance numbers always need context to make sense - but when same source numbers are treated differently - that's an emotional response, not an analytical one.
The Pro has a 70% deficit or so in rasterization to climb back so we’ll have to hope that PSSR is so good that it can outdo FSR from a much lower base resolution, and we also have to hope that the Pro can deliver RT performance 4x better than the regular PS5 consistently. If it’s only 2x, it likely won’t be enough to come all that close.Whether games with heavy or stacked RT features in particular like RTGI, reflections, shadows, any combination will look better on PS5 Pro or 7900xtx as I've predicted in the past.
Unless there's something I haven't seen yet - what context?The documents did provide context. Thats literally what the examples were added for.
For me I read that as within the current generational experience. So maybe RT reflections instead of SS for example. But generally in line with what we have already seen in titles on the standard PS5.And 'Game with no RT' to 'Game with RT' is as unspecific as it gets - who knows what that actually refers to.
The Pro has a 70% deficit or so in rasterization to climb back so we’ll have to hope that PSSR is so good that it can outdo FSR from a much lower base resolution, and we also have to hope that the Pro can deliver RT performance 4x better than the regular PS5 consistently. If it’s only 2x, it likely won’t be enough to come all that close.
I wouldn’t bet on all of these factors coming to fruition.
You just killed the dream for someTurned on PT on Cyberpunk just now. 7600x/7900xt build. 4k output.
At a mix of high and ultra general settings, I get 20fps with FSR set to quality. Dumping it down to performance FSR gets me about 28fps. Ultra performance gets about 46fps.
PS5 Pro would need some serious RT improvements to get passed that.
Turned on PT on Cyberpunk just now. 7600x/7900xt build. 4k output.
At a mix of high and ultra general settings, I get 20fps with FSR set to quality. Dumping it down to performance FSR gets me about 28fps. Ultra performance gets about 46fps.
PS5 Pro would need some serious RT improvements to get passed that.
Yeah just reality. Now, given that, it could absolutely PT if the PS5 Pro version runs a 30fps mode (or 40fps mode).You just killed the dream for some
Might give it a go. I don’t care for RT but if it saves the perf more then perhaps I would play using it fulltime.Using mod to reduce Ray bounces from 2x to 1x can get serious performance boost and it's not very noticeable.
Turned on PT on Cyberpunk just now. 7600x/7900xt build. 4k output.
At a mix of high and ultra general settings, I get 20fps with FSR set to quality. Dumping it down to performance FSR gets me about 28fps. Ultra performance gets about 46fps.
PS5 Pro would need some serious RT improvements to get passed that.
You just killed the dream for some
30fps MAY be possible. It would need a massive RT leap if the base raster is 7700xt or so. Thats assuming the CPU keeps up.Ah OK I now I understand the disconnect with PC crowd: I'm not predicting we see PT games running at 60fps on PS5 Pro. I am talking about 30fps mode, not 60.
So - we agree it's without context then.For me I read that as within the current generational experience. So maybe RT reflections instead of SS for example. But generally in line with what we have already seen in titles on the standard PS5.
Sony wants ways to highlight the Pro hw. They couldn't care less how developers go about it - it's how it worked last gen as well.But generally I'm looking at things through the assumption that Sony doesn't want two distinct development targets. Its 1 plus instead if that makes sense.
I mean - sure. But then lots of cross-platform titles already do exactly that. Pro may very well just be High/Mid to PS5's Medium/Low settings. But as I note above - we have very little to work with in terms of relative positioning here other than guesswork at the moment, and debating 'what will developers do' with it doesn't bring us any closer to that.I wouldn't think it common that RTGI would be present on the Pro but not on standard for instance as the developers then have to rig the lighting for one mode and then on top of that test against a RTGI version. It would add a lot of work.
Much lower? I don't think so. Consider the case of Avatar Pandora, a heavy RT game. Look at the profile of 7900XTX vs 4070.
At ultra settings, the 4070 runs 1440p/50fps. The 7900XTX runs 4k/40. Remember, our resident insider Heisenberg expects PS5 Pro to perform at 4070 level based on his sources so not an unreasonable comparison (though i expect a bit bettet performance). It's also not farfetched to see PSSR quality mode achieve better image than native 4k with non ML AA. If we assume additional 1ms render budget for PSSR upscaling from 1440p, we are looking at PS5 Pro running a game which DF crownd best graphics of 2023 ~20% faster (~47fps) with noticeably better image quality via ML upscaling. This is the holistic approach DF is sorely lacking in their analysis. Now imagine how their Avatar analysis using their same methodology would shake out. I won't be surprised if they abandoned this approach just to spite the Pro console.