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[PodcastFips]

I noticed this kind of judder in the alpha a lot, but I'm sure they already reduced it in the beta. It's not as common as it was before.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

I'm curios. Did anyone post this feeling of jutter before DF spoke of it?

I did and I got called a troll.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

I'm curios. Did anyone post this feeling of jutter before DF spoke of it?

in the alpha thread a few dozen times

 

[watership]

Part of me weeps for my hobby when alphas, betas, trailers and early footage of a game that isn't finished yet, is picked apart to death by people who NEED to know if a game meets a level of performance that can only be understood with frame analyzers and pixel counting. Last gen was bad enough, this gen it is becoming intolerable.

 

[FaultTolerance]

Part of me weeps for my hobby when alphas, betas, trailers and early footage of a game that isn't finished yet, is picked apart to death by people who NEED to know if a game meets a level of performance that can only be understood with frame analyzers and pixel counting. Last gen was bad enough, this gen it is becoming intolerable.

This right here.

 

[pixlexic]

Judder is really bad. I have a feeling they will work it out on time.

 

[Timedog]

Judder like this is ALWAYS a bug, right. It seems unlikely to give a performance boost. Seems like it might actually be harder on the gpu. Also why would this happen? Is it because there are multiple things happening within the engine at differing frame rates and streams got crossed?

 

[Zombie James]

Part of me weeps for my hobby when alphas, betas, trailers and early footage of a game that isn't finished yet, is picked apart to death by people who NEED to know if a game meets a level of performance that can only be understood with frame analyzers and pixel counting. Last gen was bad enough, this gen it is becoming intolerable.

I don't think there's anything wrong with seeing a game develop over time. The DF article last-gen about the evolution of God of War 3 and the improvements it went through from early demo to final release was fascinating.

 

[Netherscourge]

Judder like this is ALWAYS a bug, right. It seems unlikely to give a performance boost. Seems like it might actually be harder on the gpu. Also why would this happen? Is it because there are multiple things happening within the engine at differing frame rates and streams got crossed?

If it's an actual BUG, it's likely a synching issue.

If it's NOT a bug, it's either a hardware limitation and/or poorly optimized code.

 

[Majanew]

The stutter and aliasing are the sore spots for me. Hopefully Bungie can at least get the frame-pacing fixed by release. I expect the jaggies to remain.

 

[jacobeid]

I noticed the judder before I read the thread.

 

[Orayn]

The stutter and aliasing are the sore spots for me. Hopefully Bungie can at least get the frame-pacing fixed by release. I expect the jaggies to remain.

The aliasing probably won't be much better/worse, since they're likely sticking with FXAA and there are only so many tweaks you can make with it. I guess they could add some other sort of selective edge-smoothing on top of it maybe?

Crossing my fingers for SMAA 2Tx in Destiny 2, at least on consoles. I'd rather get it for PC and downsample.

 

[Parhelion69]

Digital Foundry first noted this frame-pacing issue in NFS: Rivals, they answered:

"The explanation for the frame-pacing is a bug in our settings, Even though the gameplay code is configured to run the game at 30Hz, the present interval of the renderer is incorrectly set to 1, which means that the renderer can present a frame at any multiple of 1/60 seconds. This will be fixed in an upcoming patch."

And that patch actually came, and according to DF, it was solved:

It's not just about frame-rate - it's about frame-pacing. For a 30fps game running on a traditional 60Hz screen, each frame should present on every other display refresh, a unique frame followed by a duplicate if you will. At launch, Need for Speed Rivals didn't pace frame correctly, resulting in 16ms and 50ms spikes. This produced judder that was thankfully patched.

So, I guess it's not that hard to fix. And if Bungie really looks into this, they'll probably smooth things out in the beta period, as they said. Hopefully they can deliver

 

[Hercules]

hopefully they get it to solid 30fps

 

[EvB]

I noticed this last night, it was just like those videos of the Xbox One that everyone found so hilarious.

 

[gamechanger87]

I noticed this last night, it was just like those videos of the Xbox One that everyone found so hilarious.

Hopefully its a bug like the Bungie developer stated in that thread, but I agree with you underlying sentiment.

 

[Orayn]

The Xbox One thing looked more like an actual framerate drop that lasted for a second or two, not judder at a locked 30 FPS. Then again, it was GameDVR footage, so it's hard to say for sure.

 

[EvB]

The Xbox One thing looked more like an actual framerate drop that lasted for a second or two, not judder at a locked 30 FPS. Then again, it was GameDVR footage, so it's hard to say for sure.

I don't know why it would drop frames from looking at a low poly wall for any other reason that it was a shader bug or something.

 

[Orayn]

I don't know why it would drop frames from looking at a low poly wall for any other reason that it was a shader bug or something.

I heard it was something along those lines, and that the person playing was specifically trying to encounter it at Bungie's request.

 

[SummitAve]

Part of me weeps for my hobby when alphas, betas, trailers and early footage of a game that isn't finished yet, is picked apart to death by people who NEED to know if a game meets a level of performance that can only be understood with frame analyzers and pixel counting. Last gen was bad enough, this gen it is becoming intolerable.

You do realize that these weren't real alphas or betas right?

 

[velociraptor]

They really need to get this judder issue under control but I suspect that won't happen. Halo 3 and ODST both suffered from the very same problem and it was NEVER patched or even addressed.

I am on the verge of cancelling my preorder. The judder made the Alpha virtually unplayable.

 

[Upinsmoke]

In story mode I feel the judder a bit, but it doesn't last, it's just a momentary thing. As for MP I haven't noticed any slowdown.

Lol at them doing performance tests on a Beta though. They'll beat anything if they've got a stick handy, especially if it's on PS4.

 

[Percy]

The lack of a PC version is starting to make me feel a bit ill right about now.

 

[KiefbladeMaster]

The only time I noticed any sort of 'judder' was when entering the first building right after the tutorial. Other than that it ran very smooth to me.

 

[7DollarHagane]

That and the terrible aliasing are its main problems.

And lod pop in.. Sad that bungies only game for a few years is cross gen..

 

[quickwhips]

I'm having fun with it which is all that matters for me. Looks/plays great IMO.

This. I have terrible eye sight at least neogaf tells me this. But they game looks great and its fun to play.

 

[blastprocessor]

When l played the alpha the biggest thing l noticed was judder and the lack of motion blur (it badly needs it).

Has the beta enabled motion blur to enable a smoother looking framerate (don't look like it)?

 

[scitek]

I get the sentiment of not analyzing the game until it's finished, because no shit things are gonna be buggy. I don't see the harm in letting the developers know about things you have concerns about, though. There's a lot of stuff they have to iron out in the final months leading to launch, and having a list of things to be sure to correct would only stand to make it at least a little easier, I'd think, rather than relying on your testers to notice everything.

 

[Orayn]

I get the sentiment of not analyzing the game until it's finished, because no shit things are gonna be buggy. I don't see the harm in letting the developers know about things you have concerns about, though. There's a lot of stuff they have to iron out in the final months leading to launch, and having a list of things to be sure to correct would only stand to make it at least a little easier, I'd think, rather than relying on your testers to notice everything.

Yeah, definitely. If anything I'd think Bungie would really appreciate expert analysis of the pre-release versions, since they can give detailed reports of problems that the general public would have a harder time describing. I could tell you that the game doesn't feel like an ideal, steady 30 FPS experience, but I don't have the equipment or skills needed to record and analyze footage to explain the frame pacing problems.

People need to understand that DF isn't analyzing things to complain about them, they're just reporting facts about the technical aspects of a game. They may offer some light commentary on how certain things affect the overall experience, but most of what they do is objective.

 

[HTupolev]

When l played the alpha the biggest thing l noticed was judder and the lack of motion blur (it badly needs it).

Has the beta enabled motion blur to enable a smoother looking framerate (don't look like it)?

What?

Destiny's PS4 alpha had motion blur.

In the beta, it still has motion blur.

 

[The Lamonster]

And lod pop in.. Sad that bungies only game for a few years is cross gen..

yep...hopefully Destiny 2 will be current-gen-only and actually let us map our own buttons and disable music in PvP.

 

[VanWinkle]

Lol at them doing performance tests on a Beta though. They'll beat anything if they've got a stick handy, especially if it's on PS4.

How's that a bad thing? If it can help identify and spread a problem, it has a better chance of getting fixed.

What?

Destiny's PS4 alpha had motion blur.

In the beta, it still has motion blur.

Maybe he means object-based motion blur, which the alpha and beta unfortunately don't have. It only has full screen motion blur.

 

[Aces&Eights]

So are we seeing this issue with the judder because it is cross platform? I am not a tech guy but I comprehend what has been explained about the frame cycles vs frame rate. If so, I cannot think of a better reason to put ps3/360 in the graveyard and not look back.

 

[watership]

You do realize that these weren't real alphas or betas right?

Doesn't matter. Is the game done? No? Analyze it!

 

[GameAddict411]

They really need to get this judder issue under control but I suspect that won't happen. Halo 3 and ODST both suffered from the very same problem and it was NEVER patched or even addressed.

This is the first time "lazy devz" is legitimate. This kind of issue shouldn't so hard to fix.

 

[Orayn]

So are we seeing this issue with the judder because it is cross platform? I am not a tech guy but I comprehend what has been explained about the frame cycles vs frame rate. If so, I cannot think of a better reason to put ps3/360 in the graveyard and not look back.

It shows up in various games that run at locked framerates, both exclusive and multiplatform. Probably just a quirk of how the engine was programmed and not specifically a cross-gen or multiplat thing.

 

[JB1981]

Having played both alpha and beta and experiencing the "judder" for myself I can say it doesn't impact the experience much at all and I have also learned that some peoples extreme sensitives to these things can be ignored in future topics involving tech analysis.

 

[tanooki27]

I'm just not seeing/feeling this judder at all.

It looks and plays buttery smooth.

play this for a few hours then play a match of BF4. The gulf between the two in terms of responsiveness is immediately aparent.

buttery destiny ain't.

 

[Interficium]

This is the first time "lazy devz" is legitimate. This kind of issue shouldn't so hard to fix.

How would you know?

 

[Foshy]

I'm curios. Did anyone post this feeling of jutter before DF spoke of it?

I noticed some slight stutter but wasn't sure if it was just me being used to 60 fps or if it really was the game.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=121489624&highlight=#post121489624

 

[Aces&Eights]

It shows up in various games that run at locked framerates, both exclusive and multiplatform. Probably just a quirk of how the engine was programmed and not specifically a cross-gen or multiplat thing.

Thanks for the response. You would think in the age of putting all games under a microscope that devs would tweak the engine or rewrite code to get rid of this. It doesn't really bother me too much but it is noticeable. Especially, after I play a game like Trine 2 and then jump over.

Bungie are great developers, though. I applaud all their talent and will be buying Destiny, regardless.

 

[FaultTolerance]

This is the first time "lazy devz" is legitimate. This kind of issue shouldn't so hard to fix.

How long have you been a game developer, and how long have you been involved with this project?

 

[Y0j1mb0]

This is the first time "lazy devz" is legitimate. This kind of issue shouldn't so hard to fix.

Ironic coming from someone who can't even put the word "be" before the word "so" in his second sentence.

 

[velociraptor]

Having played both alpha and beta and experiencing the "judder" for myself I can say it doesn't impact the experience much at all and I have also learned that some peoples extreme sensitives to these things can be ignored in future topics involving tech analysis.

I'm not one to start criticizing games for no reason whatsoever, but the judder in the alpha was rather pronounced. It was painfully obvious to me and it really hurt the experience.

 

[Lynn616]

I must not be good at seeing things like that because my beta looks and plays great. Looks gorgeous to me.

 

[RoboPlato]

I get the sentiment of not analyzing the game until it's finished, because no shit things are gonna be buggy. I don't see the harm in letting the developers know about things you have concerns about, though. There's a lot of stuff they have to iron out in the final months leading to launch, and having a list of things to be sure to correct would only stand to make it at least a little easier, I'd think, rather than relying on your testers to notice everything.

I agree. I remember during the alpha I thought the frame rate was just sketchy at times but it turns out that it was the frame pacing issue. Being able to articulate the issue clearly will give some attention to it so that it can be addressed in the final release.

 

[shinnn]

I noticed this last night, it was just like those videos of the Xbox One that everyone found so hilarious.

The same part is in the DF PS4 framerate analysis. I think there's a weird thing happening right after he killed the last enemy. Very subtle, but he is not panning the camera like the XB1 video.

Also the aliasing is bad in that part, just like in the XB1 video. Is this beta different from the alpha in terms of content?

 

[Briarios]

I had a conversation with my nephew last night while we were playing. We both agreed that it was much smoother than the alpha. I can't speak against what DF has determined, as they have better tech than I do to measure it. So, I believe them. But, I also believe my own experience of the game playing better now.

I wonder if it's possible something else it at play? Perhaps regions that are more populated giving a different rate? I dunno, I just know I'm impressed with the progress it has made,

 

[EvB]

The same part is in the DF PS4 framerate analysis. I think there's a weird thing happening right after he killed the last enemy. Very subtle, but he is not panning the camera like the XB1 video.

Also the aliasing is bad in that part, just like in the XB1 video. Is this beta different from the alpha in terms of content?

Yeah, generally more feature complete

 

[BigDug13]

Doesn't matter. Is the game done? No? Analyze it!

That's part of beta testing. Bringing observable problems to the attention of the devs. I guess DF should simply be providing this data directly to Bungie and shouldn't be publishing it, but it is what it is. You make your beta NDA free and you invite this.