You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. You're just spewing nonesense to shit on the game.
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[Digital Foundry] Marvel's Spider-Man 2 PS5 Showcase Trailer Tech Breakdown
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
I cannot go back to SSR fuck that shit, it looks "ok" when its on the floor for straight reflection if you are looking perfectly straight to the horizon. But the moment its offscreens or its off angle than it falls apart and looks straight out shit. Also if the character or object hinders the view than you get lots of artifacts. If we want to push the graphics further we need all of it. And that gif shows perfectly why we need RT, those random inaccurate reflections disappearing and reappearing randomly is just trash.lol neither screenshot looks good but yes, its a minor improvement. The question we have to ask is whether or not its worth the 35% hit to GPU (if someone has spiderman here on PC, they can tell us the exact figure) and the cost on the cpu and having the vram hold the BVH structure data at all times even when there is nothing to reflect. see the vram issues that plagued the PC version of RE4.
regardless, those are really poor reflections by insomniac. last gen consoles do way better reflections than that. Insomniac just made 'smart cuts' to increase visual fidelity elsewhere. something they have failed to do this time around. I dont know if they did it because of GPU resources or manpower but I can show you several last gen games with better reflections without needing RT. Hell, see the gif above. the reflections in even spiderman 1 are fine unless you really stop to take a look.
But i notice it all the time, the white lines on the side , the reflections disappear when view is offscreen, the unrealistic stretches that happens when some object is in the middle, the missing correct self reflections and what not. Look i want a better lighting also but i don't want to take a step back to go a step further, i want them both.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
This is going to be big.
Hawking Radiation
Member
Bro.
It's really simple. Like really fucking simplle.
The game looked like shit in the showcase, barely any better than Miles Morales and Spiderman remake. Old build, new build, shit build, whatever you wanna call it. The presentation didn't Wow most people and the overall Showcase was shit tier compared to past Showcase events.
If you're going to show X build to the public, people are inevitably going to judge you by it. It could have helped their case if they put down a disclaimer that it indeed was an old build they were showing off. That would have gone a long way to appease the fans or playerbase knowing that there's improvements coming.
Sometimes games also get downgraded when they release the retail version so there's that as well.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
WTF are you talking about? It was known that HZD had terrible reflections. Thats why i posted reflections from HFW. Why are you giving me examples of HZD when GG was able to fix them WITHOUT RT. You know the point I was trying to make??
Insomniac did phone in a lot of the reflections in Spiderman. Other games i linked are much better.
I dont think i have ever seen non-RT reflections this bad in an AAA game. You shouldnt need RT just to do proper reflections. This was an issue devs resolved with SSR literally in the first year of last gen.
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
Every Insomniac game so far has that option (On PS5). So I believe they will do it again. If not, give me a 60fps non-rt mode and we are good.
30 fps and RT obviously doable, but 60 and RT, that's very unlikely.
PixelatedBeast
Member
Criticism from people who clearly didn't play the game.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
The improvements are basically just what the remaster did, and that's just sad.
Outside of model details non of these new features seem interesting.
This isnt the gotcha you think it is.
Nintendo fans are a known quanity of folks who dont give a shit about massive visual downgrades when comparing the same game to its big brother equivalent.
Just try pulling that same visual disparency on a PS4 owner and youll end up with another CP situation like what happenex with PSN stopping all sales.
If CP was realeased on Switch in the same downgraded condition no switch owner would have a problem with it....at all.
This.
The Samaritan was acheived within 4 years by Rocksteady.
Spiderman 2018 looks better than it as well.
The Infiltrator has also been acheived in small ways here or there. Although that one is harder to compare since it leans into some hacks the industry didnt adopt much.
If thats true then every single PC version released during 360/PS3 era would also IYO equal "a next gen game"....really ?
CamHostage
Member
I see, so "next-gen" isn't about utilizing new hardware or advancements in software or higher capacity of assets quality/quantity or bigger budgets... its more subjective than anything that can be qualified objectively.
It's a feeling, man!
It's like porno, it's hard to define the line exactly, but I know it when I jizz at it...
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Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Shouldn't be flying past approaching cars or cars overtaking us as fast as Spiderman fly's past stationary buildings. So hopefully more noticeable. But any major downgrades with them on they will be turned off for me.You just wait until how it's going to be hammered into us by a subset... for a racing game
You can make out some geometry additions to some buildings in this shot but this is a really bad shot to compare lighting since the SM2 shot is the best case scenario with long dynamic shadows breaking up the scene and a clear view of the blue skylight on the buildings. The SM1 shot is the opposkte and is the worst possible lighting to judge from. The SM1 shot if completely forward lit like from some spotlight...(here the sun). This flattens out the depth and make SM1 image look way flatter and less dynamic. Sm1 looks way better then that.I see this image brought up consistently:
From DFs analysis (not the same location, but close enough):
Increase in env detail is quite apparent here. LOD will obviously kick in as the player gets closer to the building. Given the same lighting conditions and angles as the reveal trailer, we can see very similar visuals (as the initial reveal).
Thats exactly what happened.Maybe the game was gonna be cross-gen and then they cancelled the PS4 version
Might explain the lack of progress in graphics
Yep Snyderverse cinemaography moped the floor with them.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
GymWolf
Member
You are not gonna notice the flaws during web slinging and combat.I cannot go back to SSR fuck that shit, it looks "ok" when its on the floor for straight reflection if you are looking perfectly straight to the horizon. But the moment its offscreens or its off angle than it falls apart and looks straight out shit. Also if the character or object hinders the view than you get lots of artifacts. If we want to push the graphics further we need all of it. And that gif shows perfectly why we need RT, those random inaccurate reflections disappearing and reappearing randomly is just trash.
But i notice it all the time, the white lines on the side , the reflections disappear when view is offscreen, the unrealistic stretches that happens when some object is in the middle, the missing correct self reflections and what not. Look i want a better lighting also but i don't want to take a step back to go a step further, i want them both.
So if i have to sacrifice reflections, it's gonna be in a game where the flaw is less noticeable most of the times.
These console can't have all the effects, you have to chose on a game per game basis what to sacrifice, and ssr reflections in spidey are a lesser evil than meh textures or models or a bad light tech imo.
Maybe next time people is not gonna cry at the idea of a state of the art console instead of a cheap 500 dollars box.
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Spyxos
Gold Member
Oh no, people have different opinions than you, they certainly haven't played the game.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
The good thing about all this is, it's setting our expectation on an open world current gen game on these platforms.
No more bullshit UE5 talk and the power of IO and all that other shite. Here's the reality and its quite positive in some aspects. The IO is allowing instant switching between characters and the graphics are a bit of a step up over the ps4 Pro.
I expect they will get 1440p with drops to 900p etc at 60fps and it will look great. No 30fps near this oled though. Bleugh
No more bullshit UE5 talk and the power of IO and all that other shite. Here's the reality and its quite positive in some aspects. The IO is allowing instant switching between characters and the graphics are a bit of a step up over the ps4 Pro.
I expect they will get 1440p with drops to 900p etc at 60fps and it will look great. No 30fps near this oled though. Bleugh
GymWolf
Member
Horizon 3 is gonna make this thing look like a ps3 title, for real this time.
Years of advancememt on the decima engine + working exclusively on ps5 to bring out 110% of the power.
Crispy Gamer
Member
HZD even looked better than Miles so why are people holding Insomniac to this standard? At this point Guerilla is competing with themselves the game will look great but in no way will it compete with what Decima can push out unless they completely overhaul the engine
Seeing the extra info thats coming out today, a delay is unlikely.
As in the marketing will start ramping up soon.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Crispy Gamer
Member
hey I think it does especially with the 60fps patch but that doesn't mean Miles looks like shit it looks great
Thirty7ven
Banned
It’s a bit hard to understand what people expect from open world games where you traverse with speed and have a 60 fps mode.
Comparisons with TLoU2 are weird too because the character models in Miles Morales were already high quality, just as high quality as TLOU2.
It has a stylized look though, so it’s not really aiming to be photorealistic like TLoU.
Expectations just seem to be wildly out place. At the end of the day what I want is for games to look great to the point where you believe the things happening on screen, and can connect to the world and the characters on a visual level.
It seems to me that anything short of RT global illumination gets called out but then the same people complain that Jedi Survivor doesn’t turn off RTGI and reflections and so it’s unplayable at 30fps and sub 60fps.
Comparisons with TLoU2 are weird too because the character models in Miles Morales were already high quality, just as high quality as TLOU2.
It has a stylized look though, so it’s not really aiming to be photorealistic like TLoU.
Expectations just seem to be wildly out place. At the end of the day what I want is for games to look great to the point where you believe the things happening on screen, and can connect to the world and the characters on a visual level.
It seems to me that anything short of RT global illumination gets called out but then the same people complain that Jedi Survivor doesn’t turn off RTGI and reflections and so it’s unplayable at 30fps and sub 60fps.
I'm just waiting for Hellblade 2 to come out....and see some ppl say "now THIS is next gen" while at the same time just dismissing whats been added to, improved with Spider-Man 2.
Agree, expectations seem wildly out of place.
Tripolygon
Banned
Fixed that for you. Insomniac games have so far all had 60fps RT mode. So, you are in fact wrong but that's not to say Spiderman 2 might not have a 60fps RT mode.Oh no, people have wrong opinions than you, they certainly haven't played the game.
Spyxos
Gold Member
01011001
Banned
the lighting is baked afaik. and if it isn't they're wasting resources given how static the level is
Yes, whatever differences people noted between Uncharted 3 and Uncharted 4 were purely subjective bro
01011001
Banned
there is no such thing as "high quality SSR"
there's SSR that's barely acceptable (racing games mainly) and SSR that looks like a graphics glitch (basically all other genres)
SSR is pure and vile trash of the highest degree.
also in Spider-Man you run and climb along the reflective windows of buildings as well.
and the end goal of RT reflections is NOT NOTICING THE REFLECTIONS... that's what makes them good.
what you instantly notice is artifacts from SSR that crop up every second anything reflective is on screen. it's distracting and looks like a fucking glitch.
RT reflections in a game like Spider-Man are like good CGI in a movie, best case scenario is you don't even notice it during normal gameplay, it's just there and it looks natural.
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GymWolf
Member
Agree to disagree, i played many games with more than decent reflections that didn't looked like graphical glitches, the yakuza games with the dragon engine, tlou2 and hfw to name a few because i'm really not a reflection whore so it's a graphical aspect that i don't check often in games.
And i'm gonna go further, ssr that are not super pristine, SOMETIMES looks more realistic than fucking perfect mirror reflections even in materials that don't really reflect that way in reality like ice or dirty metal, sometimes devs go a bit overboard with how much clear these reflections are.
If i can only chose 2 between rtx reflections, rtx GI and overall better textures, i'm always gonna go with the latest 2 because you don't need a reflective surface to notice the improvement, it's always there with you at any given moment, and even more in a high speed game like this one where i never stay still except during some force slow walking segments.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
PixelatedBeast
Member
No way anybody is taking you seriously saying that. The presentation wasn't great, but there is nothing wrong with those graphics.
Then you should know Insomiac has already optimized their games to run on ps5 at 60 fps, with Raytracing and dynamic 4k. Speculating anything less is akin to spreading FUD.Oh no, people have different opinions than you, they certainly haven't played the game.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What game is this? What's the plot? How are the physics? AI logic? Combat systems? Set pieces?
I need to know more!
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
You can't see some physics, AI and combat there?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Thirty7ven
Banned
I don’t think that looks much better at all and it’s running sub 60 on a PC that costs over two thousand and five hundred €, probably kissing three thousand.
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March Climber
Member
What changes do you think would need to be made for this to run just as smoothly as that video, but on a Playstation 5?
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Would you, the player, be able to properly control at these speeds? Is Spider-Man a 1st person game? Should developers consider that players might get sick from such an ultimately useless and uncomfortable application?
I love it when people ask for 1:1 replication of demo features that don't make sense in actual games.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Why is the matrix demo put on a pedestal?
There may be slightly more detail and better LOD transitions at the expense of a much muddier looking image and worse Framerate
Spider-Man looks better than this
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Can't you see the stupid differences in things like geometry on buildings??
Maybe it's time for PS6 then.
Thirty7ven
Banned
No I can’t. And you can’t either?
Oh it’s time for a PS6? Ok. Go spend three thousands dollars for a tech demo, go ahead, be happy.
GymWolf
Member
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