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[Chucker]

What issue are you seeing? Haven't run into any problems on Xbox.

It's easier if I just show you.
https://account.xbox.com/en-US/game...hux&scid=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

https://account.xbox.com/en-US/game...hux&scid=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

https://account.xbox.com/en-US/game...hux&scid=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

That was just during my lunch break, the first video is right after installing and turning on the game. The 2nd and 3rd videos are after moving from External to Internal and a clean power cycle.

Edit: Further clarification. Near launch XBO, Kinect plugged in, no background processes, no downloads.

 

[FutureLarking]

Pixels are blurred too in that screenshot.

That could be just rubbish jpg compression. PNG required

 

[FN-2187]

Awesome video. Love hearing John's genuine excitement about the game. Great work as always!

 

[plagiarize]

Will be buying it presently on Switch.

Loved the sneaky shot of AM2R in there as well. Nintendo should have backed that project (or hired those guys to make an original 2D Metroid) even with Samus Returns being a thing.

 

[dark10x]

Pixels are blurred too in that screenshot.

Well, that's a downscale from the 4K original capture which was then exported in ProRes format then encoded using H264. Soooo...the point was to showcase the video I produced was much cleaner than what you see on YouTube.

As for the game itself, there is a very VERY VERY subtle blur present in all versions if you look closely, I suppose.

Here's a photo of the pixel grid on my 4K OLED if you want to get an idea of how pixels line up.

There's a tiny bit of "bleed" over in certain columns which acts as a sort of blur, I suppose. In practice, even from a very close viewing distance, it looks razor sharp but it's not 100% so.

 

[JBourne]

I picked up the Switch version for the sake of portability, but hearing that it's 4K on the Pro means I'll definitely be double-dipping when it goes on sale.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Will be buying it presently on Switch.

Loved the sneaky shot of AM2R in there as well. Nintendo should have backed that project (or hired those guys to make an original 2D Metroid) even with Samus Returns being a thing.

It was mainly a single dude with asset assistance from a forum of people who lived in Argentina. Nintendo would probably not put in the effort to just hire a dude like that considering his circumstances and location, both things Moon Studios can accommodate.

 

[Kilrogg]

Very nice video from you guys once again. Thank you, John.

Framerate dips in the 3D bonus stages on Switch are disappointing - clearly the system is powerful enough to run those at 60 fps -, but glad the rest is perfectly smooth.

I like the digs at Nintendo. They deserve them for all those years of handling their main series so wrong, from the NSMB games with their awful music and rehashed artstyle and visual themes, to Metroid Other M... Heck, Even Return of Samus looks ugly and like it misses the point of Metroid to me. It looks like Other M without the 3D section and the awful 3DS graphics. At least make it for Switch! Ugh.

Sonic Mania and those digs at Nintendo make me realize how I wish Nintendo and other classic developers from the 8 and 16-bit eras (like, oh, I don't know, Capcom and Konami? Just sayin') were better at respecting the DNA of the games that made them what they are today. Atrociously murdering the likes of Mega Man and Castlevania, and making lazy cashgrabs like Ultra Steet Fighter 2 shows how these companies have lost the way and don't connect with their audience. A sad state of affair, really.

Imagine all those classic games transcended with enhanced sequels in a similar fashion to Sonic Mania. How glorious would that be. The closest we got Mega Man 9, but that was a while ago, and Capcom failed the "transcending" part of the equation with it and MM10.

 

[Ridley327]

Will be buying it presently on Switch.

Loved the sneaky shot of AM2R in there as well. Nintendo should have backed that project (or hired those guys to make an original 2D Metroid) even with Samus Returns being a thing.

With all due respect to the folks over at Sega, Nintendo has never been lacking in the proper talent to make the kinds of games people are asking for. AM2R's creator managed to land a great job and is currently working on Ori and the Will of the Wisps, so everyone wound up happy.

 

[tapedeck]

Might as well get the Xbone version in hopes that 1X 4K support will be added since PS4/Xbone versions seem identical.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Very nice video from you guys once again. Thank you, John.

Framerate dips in the 3D bonus stages on Switch are disappointing - clearly the system is powerful enough to run those at 60 fps -, but glad the rest is perfectly smooth.

I like the digs at Nintendo. They deserve them for all those years of handling their main series so wrong, from the NSMB games with their awful music and rehashed artstyle and visual themes, to Metroid Other M... Heck, Even Return of Samus looks ugly and like it misses the point of Metroid to me. It looks like Other M without the 3D section and the awful 3DS graphics. At least make it for Switch! Ugh.

I guess we all got our own positions.

 

[dark10x]

With all due respect to the folks over at Sega, Nintendo has never been lacking in the proper talent to make the kinds of games people are asking for. AM2R's creator managed to land a great job and is currently working on Ori and the Will of the Wisps, so everyone wound up happy.

That's true. A Link Between Worlds is almost like a Zelda Mania (though it's kind of ugly).

I'm fairly sure Sonic Team doesn't have what it takes to create something like Sonic Mania but clearly Nintendo has the chops to do whatever it wants.

That said, none of Nintendo's 2D attempts at platformers have come anywhere CLOSE to recapturing the essence of its 16-bit games. The 3D games have often been incredible but most of the 2D games fall short in key areas.

The jab at Nintendo is all in good fun in the spirit of the 16-bit wars when Sega went all in.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

That said, none of Nintendo's 2D attempts at platformers have come anywhere CLOSE to recapturing the essence of its 16-bit games. The 3D games have often been incredible but most of the 2D games fall short in key areas.

Would that include Tropical Freeze?

 

[Kilrogg]

I guess we all got our own positions.

Yes, I guess we do. I can clearly sense strong disagreement here, but that's fine, I was just expressing my views on the matter. Don't want to pick a fight here, as this isn't the point of the video or the thread anyway. So I'll leave it at that.

[EDIT] I will say, however, that I do think DKTF is a good modern take on DKC. Well, it looks like one anyway. I could never play it since I never had a Wii U, but I liked the one on the Wii, and everything I've seen of TF makes me want a Switch port. Plus, David Wise.

 

[pelican]

Something makes me think John likes this game

 

[dark10x]

Would that include Tropical Freeze?

Heck no.

If you want to include that in there then then it massively raises the average.

Honestly, my chief complaints lie with the handling of 2D Mario and Yoshi games. They've released a lot of them over the last decade and they all left me cold due to a combination of dull visuals, awful music and uninspired level design. I really don't like any of them. Even Mario Maker let me down since it lacks the tools necessary to create actual Mario 3 and Super Mario World stages.

Tropical Freeze, though, is pure gold. Retro Studios never disappoints. It's a 2D platformer but a 3D console game, though, and Nintendo's other main 3D games have all been excellent.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

That's true. A Link Between Worlds is almost like a Zelda Mania (though it's kind of ugly).

I'm fairly sure Sonic Team doesn't have what it takes to create something like Sonic Mania but clearly Nintendo has the chops to do whatever it wants.

That said, none of Nintendo's 2D attempts at platformers have come anywhere CLOSE to recapturing the essence of its 16-bit games. The 3D games have often been incredible but most of the 2D games fall short in key areas.

The jab at Nintendo is all in good fun in the spirit of the 16-bit wars when Sega went all in.

I agree for the most part, except in the case of Retro's two DKC games.

Edit - You addressed it, cool.

 

[Fiendcode]

That's true. A Link Between Worlds is almost like a Zelda Mania (though it's kind of ugly).

I'm fairly sure Sonic Team doesn't have what it takes to create something like Sonic Mania but clearly Nintendo has the chops to do whatever it wants.

That said, none of Nintendo's 2D attempts at platformers have come anywhere CLOSE to recapturing the essence of its 16-bit games. The 3D games have often been incredible but most of the 2D games fall short in key areas.

The jab at Nintendo is all in good fun in the spirit of the 16-bit wars when Sega went all in.

I thought Mario Maker and the two DKCR games were pretty similarly great revivals for those series.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Can anyone explain how being rendered in 4K would make a difference - shouldn’t native 1080p for something emulating 240p scale perfectly to 2160p?

 

[Skullwaker]

Heck no.

If you want to include that in there then then it massively raises the average.

Honestly, my chief complaints lie with the handling of 2D Mario and Yoshi games. They've released a lot of them over the last decade and they all left me cold due to a combination of dull visuals, awful music and uninspired level design. I really don't like any of them. Even Mario Maker let me down since it lacks the tools necessary to create actual Mario 3 and Super Mario World stages.

Tropical Freeze, though, is pure gold. Retro Studios never disappoints. It's a 2D platformer but a 3D console game, though, and Nintendo's other main 3D games have all been excellent.

I thought Yoshi's Woolly World was fantastic. It gives me confidence for Yoshi Switch, as it proves Good Feel knows how to handle the IP.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

I thought Mario Maker and the two DKCR games were pretty similarly great revivals for those series.

The problem he has with Maker is because due to the way it has to accommodate different game styles, he can't truly make a one for one level of 3 or World. It doesn't mean Mario Maker isn't a very good game, but it does not, for him, get him close to the quality of The classics.

 

[dukie85]

I think I'm obligated to buy this game on Switch and PS4. It just looks so fucking Sonic, and I love it.

 

[dark10x]

Can anyone explain how being rendered in 4K would make a difference - shouldn't native 1080p for something emulating 240p scale perfectly to 2160p?

Nope.

Nearly all 4K TVs (with a few exceptions) upscale 1080p sources to 4K with a subtle blur filter engaged. Nearest neighbor scaling isn't usually an option. That makes sense for video sources but for pixel art games it's not great. You get added blur that softens the entire image.

By displaying at 4K, you get much sharper pixels than you otherwise would.

The problem he has with Maker is because due to the way it has to accommodate different game styles, he can't truly make a one for one level of 3 or World. It doesn't mean Mario Maker isn't a very good game, but it does not, for him, get him close to the quality of The classics.

I never said that. Mario Maker is brilliantly made. An incredible product.

...but leaving things like slopes out of the game is a big deal as it simplifies the potential level design. Mario 3 and onward rely heavily on slopes - it's a huge part of the game. Sticking to 90 degree angles ultimately limits the potential.

Still a great game, though, just not as good as it could be.

 

[The Wart]

Heck no.

If you want to include that in there then then it massively raises the average.

Honestly, my chief complaints lie with the handling of 2D Mario and Yoshi games. They've released a lot of them over the last decade and they all left me cold due to a combination of dull visuals, awful music and uninspired level design. I really don't like any of them. Even Mario Maker let me down since it lacks the tools necessary to create actual Mario 3 and Super Mario World stages.

Tropical Freeze, though, is pure gold. Retro Studios never disappoints. It's a 2D platformer but a 3D console game, though, and Nintendo's other main 3D games have all been excellent.

Pah. NSMBU is the best 2D Mario. The portable entries are pretty meh though.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

That being said, this team did a very good one to one on Sonic.

 

[TheJoRu]

Pah. NSMBU is the best 2D Mario. The portable entries are pretty meh though.

Definitely agree with this. NSMBU but with the style and care put into the presentation of Sonic Mania (i.e. better and more inspired music and graphics) would've been absolutely phenomenal, but it's a pretty great game nonetheless.

 

[Fiendcode]

I thought Yoshi's Woolly World was fantastic. It gives me confidence for Yoshi Switch, as it proves Good Feel knows how to handle the IP.

The problem with Yoshi is really just Artoon/Arzest. You can thank former Sega vets for the worst modern Nintendo platformers.

NSMB series overstayed it's welcome but the Wii and Wii U entries are still quite good. Kirby is consistently solid and underappreciated. Retro's DKC is solid gold, Mario Maker a slavish tribute and Good Feel's games are great. I don't really get the complaints with Nintendo platformers, they still dominate the genre. They always have really.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Woolly World is a fantastic game. Actually dunno what some people are on about there.

 

[nekkid]

What the hell's going on???

 

[Vashetti]

Nope.

Nearly all 4K TVs (with a few exceptions) upscale 1080p sources to 4K with a subtle blur filter engaged. Nearest neighbor scaling isn't usually an option. That makes sense for video sources but for pixel art games it's not great. You get added blur that softens the entire image.

By displaying at 4K, you get much sharper pixels than you otherwise would.

But does it downsample?

 

[EvB]

That could be just rubbish jpg compression. PNG required

It'll be compressed video that has then been made into a screenshot.

Those formats aren't designed for pixel art

here is a 800% PNG crop from that screenshot

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Hopefully we get One X support.

 

[FutureLarking]

Very nice video from you guys once again. Thank you, John.

Framerate dips in the 3D bonus stages on Switch are disappointing - clearly the system is powerful enough to run those at 60 fps -, but glad the rest is perfectly smooth.

Hopefully they keep the Switch version on the lowest clock mode when they patch instead of being lazy. Get some pretty great battery life in Mania.

 

[Stabby McSter]

Fuck! I asked in the OT whether or not ps4 would have pro support and my question was laughably dismissed as an impossibility. Lo and behold its actually native 4k and Ive already bought it on Switch.

hahaha that was actually me this morning

oh well :'(

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Hopefully they keep the Switch version on the lowest clock mode when they patch instead of being lazy. Get some pretty great battery life in Mania.

They're working to patch it as we speak.

 

[MouldyK]

I thought Yoshi's Woolly World was fantastic. It gives me confidence for Yoshi Switch, as it proves Good Feel knows how to handle the IP.

Well I adored Kirby's Epic Yarn from them aswell. They know their Platformers in my book.


Actually, I have always thought Kirby is the most consistent Nintendo Character as most, if not all, of his games are great to me.

Kirby '18 and Yoshi '18 will be my GOTYs if they live up to Robobot and Wooly World respectively.

 

[Broken Hope]

They're working to patch it as we speak.

To patch what? Link?

 

[Chucker]

To patch what? Link?

"issues that slipped through"
It was a twitter post.

 

[Balb]

Definitely agree with this. NSMBU but with the style and care put into the presentation of Sonic Mania (i.e. better and more inspired music and graphics) would've been absolutely phenomenal, but it's a pretty great game nonetheless.

Yep, I'm over the NSMB series at this point but NSMBU has fantastic level design and mechanics. Up there with the classics. This is coming from someone who wasn't a big fan of NSMB and NSMB2.

 

[Flandy]

Why does 4k matter if 1080p upscales perfectly into 4k? Shouldn't my 4k tv just upscale a 1080p image perfectly into 4k anyway? KS8000 if it matters

 

[dark10x]

Why does 4k matter if 1080p upscales perfectly into 4k? Shouldn't my 4k tv just upscale a 1080p image perfectly into 4k anyway? KS8000 if it matters

Nope. The upscaler is designed for video and introduces additional blur into the image. It's most noticeable with pixel art games like this.

 

[Flandy]

Nope. The upscaler is designed for video and introduces additional blur into the image. It's most noticeable with pixel art games like this.

Thanks for the clarification
Does this mean that any 1080p game played on a 4k display would look worse even if in theory it should upscale perfectly?

 

[Dremorak]

Hopefully the framerate issues for the Switch version's special stages are rectified in a later update (along with the delayed Home/Capture inputs).

I'm normally very sensitive to framerate issues and TBH I didnt actually notice the slowdown at all. Maybe because its a short bonus stage or maybe because it feels so old school that going 3d and dropping a couple of frames feels right to my brain or something lol

 

[dark10x]

Thanks for the clarification
Does this mean that any 1080p game played on a 4k display would look worse even if in theory it should upscale perfectly?

It slightly softens the image. It's not too bad in most cases as the pixel density is quite high but it does tend to stick out for these types of games.

 

[GANGSTERKILLER]

It slightly softens the image. It's not too bad in most cases as the pixel density is quite high but it does tend to stick out for these types of games.

So choosing "NONE" in the video options is the native 4K output, right?

 

[Omegasquash]

[EDIT] I will say, however, that I do think DKTF is a good modern take on DKC. Well, it looks like one anyway. I could never play it since I never had a Wii U, but I liked the one on the Wii, and everything I've seen of TF makes me want a Switch port. Plus, David Wise.

You'd be making a wise purchasing decision, then. TF is faithful, fun, beautiful, and tough. Load times are kinda sorta terrible.

Glad to hear that load times just aren't at all a thing in Mania, though.

 

[Oriel]

Surprised that Rich Leadbeater, formerly of Official Sega Magazine didn't do the DF video.

 

[timberger]

Gonna enjoy me some 4k goodness on this at the weekend from the sounds of it then. Yummy.

 

[orioto]

By the way i'm not sure why but the screenshots of the game are not pleasing in the eshop, they look.. i don't know, kinda upsdcaled ? That's weird, or am i drunk..

I didn't buy the game yet.

The df vid gives me hype, except he thinks that rotated sonic in the loopings look good. I hate it.

 

[EvB]

Nope. The upscaler is designed for video and introduces additional blur into the image. It's most noticeable with pixel art games like this.

At a normal viewing distance on a 4K screen, a normal human eye would not be seeing a perfect point source from a single pixel anyway.

Normal daylight vision has the pupil aperture opened to approx 3mm, if you are younger , drinking caffeine or in a darker environment, you are going to have pupils maybe as large as 5mm.
This image depicts how a single point of light reaches the retina, depending on pupil diameter.