icecold1983
Member
Using a forward rendering process affords them the use of MSAA more easily.
doesnt ac unity use a forward renderer? AA takes a massive perf hit.
Using a forward rendering process affords them the use of MSAA more easily.
Texture filtering is another key point in delivering excellent image quality and it is here that The Order: 1886 stumbles. Despite the realistic depiction of materials, surfaces are sometimes tarnished by noticeable blurring at oblique angles. Secondary objects, such as wooden tables or push carts, showcase these artefacts quite noticeably and detract from game's sense of realism. On the other hand, primary surfaces, such as the ground textures, are not distractingly blurred from the normal gameplay angle in most cases. As a result, it never feels as if this issue overwhelms the otherwise beautifully detailed scenery but there are a number of occasions where it does stand out. It's possible that a selective implementation has been utilised here with primary surfaces receiving greater attention but, regardless, the overall result is a little lacklustre compared to the rest of the presentation.
That said, the physics simulation isn't as robust as we were first lead to believe - as revealed during a presentation at Gamescom 2013, Ready at Dawn targeted a more complex soft body and destruction physics engine at some point, which promised fully destructible environments and materials. The example of a crate splintering realistically as a nearby grenade explodes, for instance, does not appear within the final game. Even more superficial surface damage, as seen in Gears of War 3 or Killzone 2, is absent leaving most of the game's structures completely intact following a large fire-fight.
if 4x msaa is indeed being used this is serious coding wizardry
I'm saying that people are seeing what they want to see. I see the same criticisms about DF pop up even when its not Leadbetter writing the articles. And I see people talk about 'media bias' against the Playstation quite a bit, especially in review threads. Its like some people believe there's this huge conspiracy out to trash the Playstation when in reality, its just their own emotional investment in the brand isn't being reciprocated so lovingly by others and so anything where the Playstation isn't being held up on a pedestal is 'bashing' or some agenda or something. I don't think some of you guys realize how silly it seems from an outside perspective.
This sounds incredibly paranoid.
Would it still be coding wizardry if it was 1920x1080 and 2xMSAA? I think that makes it a bit more realistic when you think about it like that, but its still a hell of an accomplishment no doubt.
No it's deferred. Most engines are still deferred. The Order devs spoke in depth about choosing forward rendering because of their specific desire for MSAA way before release.doesnt ac unity use a forward renderer? AA takes a massive perf hit.
I disagree. I'd put "perhaps the best" a smidge higher than "one of the best", but either statement is still a clear expression of where the work stands in the author's eyes. It's unfortunate that hyperbole has become so commonplace that calling something "perhaps/one of the best" seems almost mundane, but that doesn't mean that writers should start contravening long existing standards/etiquettes to compensate.Agreed, but the way its phrased now also adds nothing of value.
Just like the popular "one of the best" phrase. Has no meaning other than "its pretty good".
That's like asking the question, "since the game is using a forward renderer, is using MSAA at all with this level of graphical fidelity really an accomplishment?"
I think it works fine considering what they went with technically speaking.
DF aren't perfect. I've disagreed with them plenty of times and I've seen instances where they've flat out got things wrong before(most of which had nothing to do with PS4). When I said that comment was unsubstantiated, I meant it was unsubstantiated, not that it was 'a lie told in order to make one console look better than the other'.to be fair, you even agreed here that their opinion on something wasn't substantiated.
I never said it was a problem or was bad or anything remotely like that. Not sure what you're talking about.That's like asking the question, "since the game is using a forward renderer, is using MSAA at all with this level of graphical fidelity really an accomplishment?"
I think it works fine considering what they went with technically speaking
No it's deferred. Most engines are still deferred. The Order devs spoke in depth about choosing forward rendering because of their specific desire for MSAA way before release.
there was a very recent big budget multiplatform title using a forward renderer, and i want to say it was from ubisoft.
Why did RaD allegedly go for MSAA?
From my basic understanding, it's terrible bang for performance buck.
DF aren't perfect. I've disagreed with them plenty of times and I've seen instances where they've flat out got things wrong before(most of which had nothing to do with PS4). When I said that comment was unsubstantiated, I meant it was unsubstantiated, not that it was 'a lie told in order to make one console look better than the other'.
No it's deferred. Most engines are still deferred. The Order devs spoke in depth about choosing forward rendering because of their specific desire for MSAA way before release.
1) We actually used to use deferred rendering, and one of the reasons for switching was so that MSAA would be more affordable and less error-prone. I'm a firm believer in MSAA, and I think it's required if you want really good image quality. The shader-based techniques like FXAA and MLAA are certainly a lot better than nothing and they make a still screenshot look really nice, but they're fundamentally limited by a lack of sub-pixel information and it really shows in motion. They can still be nice though when used in conjunction with MSAA in order to improve the quality further and to cover up some of the places where MSAA doesn't work as well, and there's also some shader things you can do on modern GPU's that make MSAA more effective overall.
Gentlemen, let's not get too heated and enjoy ourselves some graphics talk.
I've only seen videos but the only thing I've seen that looks better to my eyes is Ryse downsampled from about 5k on my SLI rig. I Kean that from an IQ perspective.
Well, I don't think it's quite the same, actually, since it's not just flipping a switch and bam, your game is now forward+ and you have MSAA. If it was, more games would probably do the same.
I never said it was a problem or was bad or anything remotely like that. Not sure what you're talking about.
Leadbetter does articles on all sorts of things, many of which have nothing to do with gaming. Its just some of you so entrenched in console warfare that you're seeing the enemy everywhere even when you're at the supermarket.
I bought a 40" TV because I wanted a 40" image.
I just wrote that they've said incorrect things before(again, most of which that had nothing to do with the PS4).no doubt
un·sub·stan·ti·at·ed
adjective
not supported or proven by evidence.
it might not be a lie, but in a tech analysis such a claim is pretty bold. oddly enough you defended it there with bad luck, rather than hold them accountable.
anyway, i wont derail any further.
You know me. All about them consoles. lolYou're one to talk about console warfare.
I just wrote that they've said incorrect things before(again, most of which that had nothing to do with the PS4).
And I did hold them accountable for making the claim they did in the Evolve article while also saying that there's little reason to doubt they did actually have connectivity issues(the bad luck part). You're trying to find an 'aha' moment here that isn't there, I'm afraid.
You know me. All about them consoles. lol
I just wrote that they've said incorrect things before(again, most of which that had nothing to do with the PS4).
And I did hold them accountable for making the claim they did in the Evolve article while also saying that there's little reason to doubt they did actually have connectivity issues(the bad luck part). You're trying to find an 'aha' moment here that isn't there, I'm afraid.
In graphics threads, you mean?You spend an awful lot of time in console threads for one that cares so little.
And Ryse (Ryse and Witcher 3 use hybrid renderers, capable of both)As far as I know, only The Witcher 3 and The Order are said to be forward+, at least considering the games coming out early 2015.
I'm still waiting for someone to show a PC game that looks better. Ryse on my PC that is much more powerful than a PS4 doesn't look nearly as good.
You were restating part of what I said while leaving out the part where I did the thing you said I didn't do.no aha moment, thats called projecting. I am literally restating what you said, and why some would question DF's integrity.
It can make a game look more fluid and even stable in motion, but it does not improve the raw graphics themselves.Ryse can run at 60 frames per second, though. Refresh rate plays part in how a game's graphics look.
And Ryse (Ryse and Witcher 3 are hybrid renderers, capable of both)
I just wrote that they've said incorrect things before(again, most of which that had nothing to do with the PS4).
And I did hold them accountable for making the claim they did in the Evolve article while also saying that there's little reason to doubt they did actually have connectivity issues(the bad luck part). You're trying to find an 'aha' moment here that isn't there, I'm afraid.
You know me. All about them consoles. lol
Thanks for proving my point.
In graphics threads, you mean?
Correct me if I'm wrong (and really, please do correct me if I'm wrong) since I haven't played either and have only seen screenshots and videos, but isn't the latest AssCreed game a looker on a very capable PC? I'm talking strictly about IQ, textures, effects, etc. Not even performance.I agree, why is it so hard to admit the obvious?
I'm still waiting for someone to show a PC game that looks better. Ryse on my PC that is much more powerful than a PS4 doesn't look nearly as good.
Because "Best. Graphics. Ever!" is fine for a personal opinion on a forum, but for a professional writer it adds nothing substantial to the article yet can be seen as making an objective statement on a subjective issue that would no doubt serve as a lightning rod for trolling and controversy. Adding "perhaps" as a qualifier cuts out (or at least limits) all debates about art-style and game scope and adding "on console" does the same for things such as obscene IQ and 16K pillow texture mods, whilst still conveying that in the author's informed opinion the combination of technologies stand at the pinnacle of current achievement in the field.
The narrow approach to game design has at least allowed the team to unleash perhaps the most impressive example of real-time graphics on a console to date.
Yeah, usually downplaying them ..... Or in the Bloodbourne thread stating that it looks like crap or telling us how limited and meh Uncharted is, or how you would look forward to Forza coming to PC if it did and how PC streaming to Xbox would be awesome.
I feel like I'm the only person who not only doesn't mind the letterboxing, but appreciates its inclusion. I had the same opinion with The Evil Within. It makes the whole experience feel closer and claustrophobic. I wouldn't want it present in like, Far Cry or something. But I think it works to atmospheric games advantage.
Visually I think this game is the best looking ever. I don't think I've even seen a PC game that comes ahead of it.
Never said Bloodborne looked like crap. I talked about not liking the CA in the game, though. I'm getting frustrated with CA in games in general. And I did say it wasn't a standout graphics title(which its not). But I still think it generally looks awesome, especially the art style, which is always more important to me than technically accomplished graphics.Yeah, usually downplaying them ..... Or in the Bloodbourne thread stating that it looks like crap or telling us how limited and meh Uncharted is, or how you would look forward to Forza coming to PC if it did and how PC streaming to Xbox would be awesome.
A lot of people think AC Unity is a stunning game on PC. I haven't played it myself, but from screenshots and videos, I would say that it lacks(by far) the consistency in visuals that The Order has. Different scopes in the games and all, but if we're just judging what's there and not what is a bigger accomplishment, I think The Order is pretty easily the more striking game.Correct me if I'm wrong (and really, please do correct me if I'm wrong) since I haven't played either and have only seen screenshots and videos, but isn't the latest AssCreed game a looker on a very capable PC? I'm talking strictly about IQ, textures, effects, etc. Not even performance.
Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.
A lot of people think AC Unity is a stunning game on PC. I haven't played it myself, but from screenshots and videos, I would say that it lacks(by far) the consistency in visuals that The Order has. Different scopes in the games and all, but if we're just judging what's there and not what is a bigger accomplishment, I think The Order is pretty easily the more striking game.
You know, I went and watched several AC videos after posting (to refresh my memory) and I think you're right. Sometimes it looks incredible but in a few minutes of the same "4K max settings" video I saw some inconsistency in hair, clothing textures and bush geometry. I think the scope of the game works against its IQ in certain cases.
Funny you say this; I was just going through my capture gallery last night, comparing KZ and TO. TO looks almost a generation ahead of KZ, and I'm not exaggerating. And KZ still looks great.Killzone Shadowfall is still the most impressive next-gen game. The wast array of technical achievements is just mindblowing.
Props to DF for noticing the incredibly good loading speed too
Oh, really? I had no idea.
The Rendering Technology of Ryse - CrytekCrytek GDC 2014 said:Ended up with hybrid approach
 Majority of objects going through efficient full deferred shading path
 Forward+ rendering for materials that have very specific shading requirements
(mostly hair and eyes)
ExaminerCDProject Press Release said:The technology uses high dynamic range rendering with 64-bit precision that ensures superior picture quality with more realistic and precise lighting without losses derived from reduced contrast ratio. A flexible renderer prepared for deferred or forward+ rendering pipelines has a wide array of cinematic post-processing effects, including bokeh depth-of-field, color grading and flares from many lights. A high performance terrain system allows multiple material layers to be efficiently blended and uses tessellation for the best possible detail.
I used to not mind it, and actually defend the artistic vision, but that was before I played The Evil Within. I regret getting it on PS4 just because of that. The FOV is awful, and the black bars only make it worse.
The Order actually doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as The Evil Within, but from now on I definitely hope every game going for it gives us the option to turn it off >_>
I can definitely see FOV being a problem. I've never really felt affected by it so I'm not one to talk about it, but it's absolutely fair criticism.
How would that be "free"? Downsampling 1080 vertical res down to 800 doesn't suddenly make it cost less than a normal 1080 vertical res.I wonder if they are actually squeezing the image between the black bars to get some free downsampling?
Gentlemen, let's not get too heated and enjoy ourselves some graphics talk.
I've only seen videos but the only thing I've seen that looks better to my eyes is Ryse downsampled from about 5k on my SLI rig. I Kean that from an IQ perspective.