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Digital Foundry: The Witcher 3 patch 1.03 performance analysis (PS4/XB1)

If anything, I'd say the mere fact that we're debating whether locked 20 or fluctuating 20ish framerate is better in demanding scenarios is a sign that Witcher 3 is a little too ambitious on consoles. I would consider these framerates as barely, just barely playable but CDPR should really look into this.
 

omonimo

Banned
If the drops were only to mid 20's like on XB1 then I'd be inclined to agree, but if the drops are more than that, then we're probably not in a position to say which is preferable without actually trying it. And even then, it may be a matter of preference and therefore just a judgemental call.

I don't know. It's a difficult one. Hopefully a bit of time will clear some things up so it's less of an issue.
I repeat to you hardly a software house locked intentionally 20 fps in the gameplay. Not has sense. It's a double buffer issue. For the simple fact, stay to 20 fps all the time not improve anything. More the contrary.
 

boeso

Member
This is so insulting. Nothing about a game like TW3 is lazy.

I was being sarcastic...look at the posts above mine.

I agree its the most immersive, detailed, painstakingly created world I've ever played. There is just so much content its mind boggling. You'd have to be insane to call the Witcher 3 the product of laziness lol.
 

omonimo

Banned
If anything, I'd say the mere fact that we're debating whether locked 20 or fluctuating 20ish framerate is better in demanding scenarios is a sign that Witcher 3 is a little too ambitious on consoles. I would consider these framerates as barely, just barely playable but CDPR should really look into this.
So GTA, AC, Bethesda games were too ambitious to stay on ps360 in the past? Right?
 

Seanspeed

Banned
And you will never see it, because any sane or truthful person would realize that it's because the XB1 is much weaker than the PS4. In that light, no game should ever perform worse on the PS4. XB1 looking and performing worse is an expectation based on the hardware and the multitudes of games which back the difference in power with noted tangible differences.
You sound like you have a decent amount of knowledge of this stuff, which makes it perplexing why you act like you don't understand the point I'm making here. The PS4 is more powerful, but that does mean it will look *and* perform better in every game. It does not in many instances. The gaps between versions are not some set thing that will always play out exactly as any on-paper specs would indicate as there are a lot more variable to account for.

Anyways, I really feel your only goal in these technical discussions is to try and make the PS4 look good, irrespective of the game or specific topic. It's really gotten quite old and tiring and I'm not gonna respond to it anymore. Should have stopped a long time ago, really.
 
Locking it at 20fps isn't as egregious as some people think.

You will still notice framerate drops, perhaps even more so, if it's constantly going up and down between 25-30 fps.

The developer probably recognized there are some high impact areas and thought that a constant framerate was less jarring.

I mean, that was certainly the motivation to lock XB1 at 30 fps.
 

ps3ud0

Member
If the drops were only to mid 20's like on XB1 then I'd be inclined to agree, but if the drops are more than that, then we're probably not in a position to say which is preferable without actually trying it. And even then, it may be a matter of preference and therefore just a judgemental call.

I don't know. It's a difficult one. Hopefully a bit of time will clear some things up so it's less of an issue.
It sounds like a poor judgement call as a developer where you look at a low 20 framerate and think the solution is to introduce double buffer v-sync rather than to improve the frame rate that makes you think that a whole scene requires such treatment.

ps3ud0 8)
 
If anything, I'd say the mere fact that we're debating whether locked 20 or fluctuating 20ish framerate is better in demanding scenarios is a sign that Witcher 3 is a little too ambitious on consoles. I would consider these framerates as barely, just barely playable but CDPR should really look into this.
That's really too far reaching of a conclusion.

There will continue to be ambitious projects on these consoles for several more years and most of them will run alright.
 

Mastperf

Member
If anything, I'd say the mere fact that we're debating whether locked 20 or fluctuating 20ish framerate is better in demanding scenarios is a sign that Witcher 3 is a little too ambitious on consoles. I would consider these framerates as barely, just barely playable but CDPR should really look into this.
Still too early to call. Give them 6 months worth of patches to try to fix it. The game is clearly unfished but they must not have wanted another delay. It could be that WB insisted they release it as is. This situation is far beyond anything CD Projekt Red has had to deal with in the past. Open-world games are probably the hardest genre to balance visuals and performance while struggling with the massive amount of bugs. They might not be able to fix it but it's only been 2 weeks so it isn't possible to draw any conclusion at this point.
 

thelastword

Banned
You sound like you have a decent amount of knowledge of this stuff, which makes it perplexing why you act like you don't understand the point I'm making here. The PS4 is more powerful, but that does mean it will look *and* perform better in every game. It does not in many instances. The gaps between versions are not some set thing that will always play out exactly as any on-paper specs would indicate as there are a lot more variable to account for.

Anyways, I really feel your only goal in these technical discussions is to try and make the PS4 look good, irrespective of the game or specific topic. It's really gotten quite old and tiring and I'm not gonna respond to it anymore. Should have stopped a long time ago, really.
That's fine, because your policing in these threads and this (temper your expectations schtick) is a bit unsettling as it is. Technical threads are not for dishonesty and being willingly obtuse, even disingenuous at that. It's also strange that you are so involved in the PS4 vs XB1 debate, yet you own neither, but yet you are here in every PS4 vs XB1 thread to ensure that people don't believe too much in their PS4's.

This is a bad PS4 release on a technical level, the fact that the PS4 is more powerful and having worse performance is what has PS4 owners shaking their heads. At the end of the day, what every PS4 owner wants is a game that runs and performs well on the their system relative to it's power. It's a big pink elephant in the room when people compare performance to the other console and the PS4 is below par. No one cares if the developer didn't sleep or was time constrained or are not familiar with the API, people just want a good product for their $60.00 at release. Get it done or get out.
 

BFIB

Member
This is the most fun I've had gaming in a long long time. The most fun I've had with an RPG since Mass Effect.

But it is a concerning trend with games needing numerous patches to be optimized.

If your on the shelf, please do yourself a favor and dig into this. As much as a texture load here, a dropped frame there is annoying, the rest make up for it.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
It sounds like a poor judgement call as a developer where you look at a low 20 framerate and think the solution is to introduce double buffer v-sync rather than to improve the frame rate that makes you think that a whole scene requires such treatment.

ps3ud0 8)
Obviously it wouldn't be an either/or situation.
 

thelastword

Banned
This is the most fun I've had gaming in a long long time. The most fun I've had with an RPG since Mass Effect.

But it is a concerning trend with games needing numerous patches to be optimized.

If your on the shelf, please do yourself a favor and dig into this. As much as a texture load here, a dropped frame there is annoying, the rest make up for it.

It's a technical thread though, I haven't heard much complaint about the gameplay, but technical issues can suck enjoyment out of a great game. Imagine if all our great games performed well, wouldn't that be better? TLOU remastered is even better at 60fps, you won't have anybody going back to the PS3 version having played the PS4 release. We can't just isolate gameplay in a video game, if all aspects come together the experience is much better for it.
 

JP

Member
I think I've had enough of this game now. The frame rate itself doesn't bother me but the controls are atrocious, at times it feels like there's half a second between me pressing a buttons and something happening on screen. No precision at all. I really can't remember the last time I had to stop playing a game because the controls were so poor. So many complaints about the controls in Street Fighter on the PS4 but I find that far more precise than this.
 

thatJohann

Member
I think I've had enough of this game now. The frame rate itself doesn't bother me but the controls are atrocious, at times it feels like there's half a second between me pressing a buttons and something happening on screen. No precision at all. I really can't remember the last time I had to stop playing a game because the controls were so poor. So many complaints about the controls in Street Fighter on the PS4 but I find that far more precise than this.

Oh man I totally agree. I got rid of this game for this reason.
 

BFIB

Member
It's a technical thread though, I haven't heard much complaint about the gameplay, but technical issues can suck enjoyment out of a great game. Imagine if all our great games performed well, wouldn't that be better? TLOU remastered is even better at 60fps, you won't have anybody going back to the PS3 version having played the PS4 release. We can't just isolate gameplay in a video game, if all aspects come together the experience is much better for it.
I do agree, but I know a few gaffers have mentioned that they are holding off until the kinks are ironed out.
 

Durante

Member
It's too bad people still fight tooth and nail against graphics options in console games. A choice between 900p/1080p and maybe the addition of a "Low Quality" mode might do wonders for this game on PS4.
I don't think games on consoles can benefit all that much from graphics options, actually -- except aesthetic ones like CA. Does anyone really want the choice of playing below 30 FPS? If not, then the only meaningful choice would be between 30 and 60 FPS, and that's generally too far a range for options.

Consoles are usually presented as the platform where you let the developer make the choices for you, and you trust them to do what's best for the experience on the given platform.

Right. 20 is nearer to 24 than 30, so you will have a most cinematic experience.
They should lock it at 24. Some TVs could even do that stutter-free!

(Actually, joking aside, that's kind of interesting. Could you do native 24 Hz output from a PS4/B1 game?)
 

Daingurse

Member
Sucks about the double buffered V-sync on PS4. Playing the game on PC and it's fucking incredible, so I hate to see people's experience hampered by performance issues.

I think RAD mentioned toying around with 24 fps in The Order 1886 to see if it could be playable, but decided that 30 fps was a much better experience.

Probably the smoothest 30fps game I've ever played too. Must have been the motion blur.
 

Noobcraft

Member
(Actually, joking aside, that's kind of interesting. Could you do native 24 Hz output from a PS4/B1 game?)
I think RAD mentioned toying around with 24 fps in The Order 1886 to see if it could be playable, but decided that 30 fps was a much better experience. As far as a technical level, I think you can force 24hz output for bluray movie viewing.
 
Sucks about the double buffered V-sync on PS4. Playing the game on PC and it's fucking incredible, so I hate to see people's experience hampered by performance issues.

Agreed. All we can do is wait and see what CDPR can come up with. We should know something in a couple of weeks.
 

kitch9

Banned
I'm confused, where is this 20fps thing coming from, didn't DF say it was mostly 30 in its first analysis? Has the game gone backwards in its patches?

For me the game runs a lot better with the latest patch on ps4.
 

JP

Member
Oh man I totally agree. I got rid of this game for this reason.
It's annoying isn't it.

I know that there's a good game buried underneath the controls somewhere but they've ruined the game for me. I really can't recommend this game to anybody at the moment, maybe once the game is in a finished state as it's clearly not there yet.

I bought the expansion pass too as I was looking forward to this so much, I just hope that by the time they release the new content they have it running properly.
 

Elandyll

Banned
I cant help but wonder what framerate the ps4 version would have at 900p.

The resolution war is misguided.
You're right.
Given that screens are 1080p as a standard, a native 1080p resolution should be a base standard around which all is designed.
Then you adapt the visuals to obtain a stable 30 or 60fps.

There should be no place for sub native screen resolutions in 2015.
 

tuxfool

Banned
I'm confused, where is this 20fps thing coming from, didn't DF say it was mostly 30 in its first analysis? Has the game gone backwards in its patches?

For me the game runs a lot better with the latest patch on ps4.

In some situations (not tested by DF) the game goes down to 20 fps.
 

thelastword

Banned
I do agree, but I know a few gaffers have mentioned that they are holding off until the kinks are ironed out.
I am as well, there's no way I will support a game in this state, but I'm glad you're enjoying it regardless.

I think I've had enough of this game now. The frame rate itself doesn't bother me but the controls are atrocious, at times it feels like there's half a second between me pressing a buttons and something happening on screen. No precision at all. I really can't remember the last time I had to stop playing a game because the controls were so poor. So many complaints about the controls in Street Fighter on the PS4 but I find that far more precise than this.
Lol, controls looked fine to me, it's not bloodborne combat but it's more RPGesque anyway. Seems like you play it more for the story/quest/adventure rather than precision combat. I can understand if you're not into that though, precision games are more my style as well. I concur with SF, it's playable but it still needs work, when they fix it, it will feel even better to you.
 

Keihart

Member
So the game get really bad performance later on? i'm on velen, and the only real preforming issues i see are in heavy rain fights and the usual framedrop in cutscenes.

Pop in it's pretty low, i hardly notice it, There is more dissapearing objects on your back to avoid blocking the camera than in front of you.

I thinks it's pretty amazing how better this game is performing on console compared to similar games last gen, and when you compare the graphics it's almost surreal. It doesn't have perfect IQ or performance but they are not nearly as bad as they were in last gen open world games.
 
That's really too far reaching of a conclusion.

There will continue to be ambitious projects on these consoles for several more years and most of them will run alright.

What is alright though? I'm assuming that CDPR did the bare minimum of playtesting on the console versions. Since we are talking about fixed hardware platforms, it is logical to assume that they were aware of the framedrops and generally shoddy performance. My "too ambitious" comment means that instead of targeting a specific level of graphical quality that would mean a 30 fps average framerate with heavy drops in demanding scenes, they should have targeted a graphical level that guarantees 30 fps or thereabouts in those exact scenes. Most PC gamers know that average framerates are not a good enough metric of a game's or a PCs performance. Everyone mostly pays attention to minimum framerates (fps in demanding scenes) or frametimes (timely and consistent frame delivery).
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
Does anyone really want the choice of playing below 30 FPS?

I dunno, plenty of people on GAF have said they don't really notice the framerate problems with this game on PS4. For them, I'd imagine it carries over to other games as well. Meanwhile others are pretty much begging for a locked 30fps.

It seems to me like it would be less work for the devs, too. Not having to spend so much time optimizing after release while more urgent problems like gameplay bugs need fixing.
 
Jesus the PS4 is dropping to 20 during those cutscenes. Ouch. Not that 25 on the X1 is something to write home about but still ... jesus, 20?

The comparison is apples to oranges. They are running at different resolutions.

One issue I have with DF is they seem to underplay the effect of resolution. Sure I love a perfect framerate, but time and again devs are choosing this higher resolution on PS4, there are reasons for that.

That said, I'm losing patience for performance optimization being saved for post-release patches. It's gotten out of hand.
 

pager99

Member
xbox performs nicely with lock ,ps4 more or less the same apart from cut scenes as far as i can see
good to see their continually improving the game
 

tuxfool

Banned
The comparison is apples to oranges. They are running at different resolutions.

One issue I have with DF is they seem to underplay the effect of resolution. Sure I love a perfect framerate, but time and again devs are choosing this higher resolution on PS4, there are reasons for that.

That said, I'm losing patience for performance optimization being saved for post-release patches. It's gotten out of hand.

The PS4 has a GPU that is more appropriately scaled to provide 1080p output and in many circumstances the extra power over the xb1 scales somewhat decently to meet this target. But it has often been noted that the extra res is not achieved comfortably.
 

Broank

Member
I notice the terrible detail load in on the xbone versions new patch way more than I noticed the framerate in the old patch. It's really fucking up the game for me. :\
 

catbrush

Member
Do you still have to position Geralt juuuuuuuust right to loot things?

For a game where most of the gameplay consists of approaching things and pressing a button to interact with them, the imprecision of Geralt's movement drives me up the wall (especially after playing Bloodborne...even DA:I).

Far more important than performance and/or eye candy in my opinion, though the cutscenes have no business dropping to 17fps.
 
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