Support NeoGAF

[feint_ruled]

IIRC Digital Foundry had an article where they argued that 900p is actually a great resolution as you save processing power but it's not a huge difference between it and 1080p.

And to be honest, I don't think based on the Gamersyde footage that there is a noticeable visual difference between Xbone and PS4. That part is subjective though.

DF are starting to lose internal coherence. I get they are a few (3?) different guys with their own opinions, but to say in one article that 900p is a nice performance sweet spot kind of contradicts their other one in which they say dropping to 720p doesn't necessarily provide the expected benefits. I guess the overall new message is "resolution doesn't matter so much anymore" (due to diminishing returns). Except when it does ;-)

 

[NBtoaster]

Yet, the distance between 1280x720 and 1152x640 was called "significant" in the past.

It is more significant. Last gen had worse scaling and AA, and the lower resolution you go the uglier it is.

 

[Chabbles]

I still don't understand why many people on GAF that have the PS4 version are claiming they are not seeing the flag logo pop in on the cutscenes that everyone keeps posting a pic of.


Has anyone been able to replicate that on their own system?

Iv loaded between different areas in the city, where 80% of all surfaces were texture-less for a second. Its happened afew times now. I've even noticed it just looking around quickly in the streets with textures taken a half second to load. reminds me of Dead island 1 on ps3 afew years back, but not as consistently bad as DI. But its there, theres definitely a texture streaming issue.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It is more significant. Last gen had worse scaling and AA, and the lower resolution you go the uglier it is.

hahaha wow.

 

[III-V]

I didn't think it was necessary but I guess posting context-less images when people have no clue what AF means is that some posters are assuming Unreal Engine texture load-in issues are "AF" and the game looks like that.

sloppy

 

[benny_a]

DF are starting to lose internal coherence. I get they are a few (3?) different guys with their own opinions, but to say in one article that 900p is a nice performance sweet spot kind of contradicts their other one in which they say dropping to 720p doesn't necessarily provide the expected benefits. I guess the overall new message is "resolution doesn't matter so much anymore" (due to diminishing returns). Except when it does ;-)

Oh yeah, these verdicts fall prey to psychological biases.

If you have to make up winning conditions on the spot, you're bound to fall victim to some flawed thinking.
To get around these things you should set the winning conditions before you do the analysis, that way you have an automatic check and you're purely gathering data instead of shaping the data, too.

Or they could just side-step it all and drop the verdict and just describe the different versions.

 

[Play-Stay-Tion]

this game looks bad either way

 

[WordsintheWater]

I still don't understand why many people on GAF that have the PS4 version are claiming they are not seeing the flag logo pop in on the cutscenes that everyone keeps posting a pic of.


Has anyone been able to replicate that on their own system?

I've personally never had that issue from the one Digital Foundry posted. The only time I noticed texture pop in was when I reloaded after I died in the brothel level. Cleared up after about 2 seconds.

 

[benny_a]

I've personally never had that issue from the one Digital Foundry posted. The only time I noticed texture pop in was when I reloaded after I died in the brothel level. Cleared up after about 2 seconds.

More importantly, out of 4 videos recorded on the PS4 and available on YouTube, only the Digital Foundry one exhibits the particular streaming issue in the cutscene they use to demonstrate it.

 

[WordsintheWater]

More importantly, out of 4 videos recorded on the PS4 and available on YouTube, only the Digital Foundry one exhibits the particular streaming issue in the cutscene they use to demonstrate it.

The only thing I can think of is it wasn't fully installed at that point, but that point is far enough into the game where it would have to be installed by then.

 

[benny_a]

The only thing I can think of is it wasn't fully installed at that point, but that point is far enough into the game where it would have to be installed by then.

They say in the update that it was fully installed.

I think they booted it up and went directly to chapter select on the PS4 vs. a playthrough from prologue until Chapter 4 on the Xbone.

 

[WordsintheWater]

They say in the update that it was fully installed.

I think they booted it up and went directly to chapter select on the PS4 vs. a playthrough from prologue until Chapter 4 on the Xbone.

That's the most likely case. Texture pop in just isn't the issue in the PS4 version from the 4 hours I've played.

 

[atr0cious]

They say in the update that it was fully installed.

I think they booted it up and went directly to chapter select on the PS4 vs. a playthrough from prologue until Chapter 4 on the Xbone.

Can anyone replicate this, because this would be pretty damning if true?

 

[Pop]

They say in the update that it was fully installed.

I think they booted it up and went directly to chapter select on the PS4 vs. a playthrough from prologue until Chapter 4 on the Xbone.

Hmm

You know that might have happened. Pretty shameful if so.

 

[Y2Kev]

I just played past that cutscene...it's at the end of Chapter 3...and though it didn't load in textures like that, it did stutter in terms of framerate since the cutscenes in this game run like absolute shit.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I just played past that cutscene...it's at the end of Chapter 3...and though it didn't load in textures like that, it did stutter in terms of framerate since the cutscenes in this game run like absolute shit.

The cutscenes run terribly, I couldn't believe I was playing a PS4 game.

 

[Loudninja]

I just played past that cutscene...it's at the end of Chapter 3...and though it didn't load in textures like that, it did stutter in terms of framerate since the cutscenes in this game run like absolute shit.

Yeah so whats up with that?

Why do the cutscenes run worst than the gameplay?

 

[hodgy100]

I do with digital foundry would stop being so subjective with their Tech comparisons. just analyse each game and come up with a list of technical features for each version, gamers can look at them and decide for themselves which version they think is better, they can choose the trade-offs that they dont mind having. Yet when you start getting into opinions such as: 1080p and 900p isn't that big of a difference and filtering > resolution, The article stops being a technical analysis and is now an opinion piece.

But unfortunately facts aren't clickbait...

 

[Biker19]

I don't think any honest X1 fans really feel it has superior hardware, but the PS4 fanboy insecurity is through the roof. Thread after thread after thread mocking the X1 and its games since before the consoles were even released. But if you say one thing, anything! about a PS4 flaw, regardless if it is ridiculously insignificant or even matters, crap hits the fan immediately. There's no other explanation other than total insecurity on the matter. Hilarious.

Your tag alone implies that you shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Liabe Brave]

It is more significant. Last gen had worse scaling and AA, and the lower resolution you go the uglier it is.

No. Upscaling methods have been pretty much static for over a decade.

But even if we accept the wider point (smaller gaps are more significant the closer you approach a floor value), that's still of limited value in this case. Because the last-gen "significant" gap was only 20%, whereas the current-gen "isn't a major" gap is 30%. So even though further from the floor value, the gap is actually bigger.

And, if we are consistent, this principle would mean that the One's framerate is significantly worse than PS4's--the 5fps gap means more when the baseline is in the 20s--but the article calls it "trivial". There's inconsistency in the language applied, which is what people are arguing.

 

[KlytusImBored]

I don't think any honest X1 fans really feel it has superior hardware, but the PS4 fanboy insecurity is through the roof. Thread after thread after thread mocking the X1 and its games since before the consoles were even released. But if you say one thing, anything! about a PS4 flaw, regardless if it is ridiculously insignificant or even matters, crap hits the fan immediately. There's no other explanation other than total insecurity on the matter. Hilarious.

Agreed. The insecurities on display from both sides are at once pathetic and amusing.

 

[Biker19]

33 pages!!! Dear Christ. D:

It's now cut down to 19 pages if you set the "Number of Posts to Show Per Page" option to "Show 100 posts per page." Makes it a whole lot easier.

 

[Apophis2036]

Someone should create a thread / twitter campaign to try and get Eurogamer to use Gamersyde like videos for their comparisons. Comparing games using low bitrate / 29fps Youtube videos is laughable in 2014...

 

[Melchiah]

No. Upscaling methods have been pretty much static for over a decade.

But even if we accept the wider point (smaller gaps are more significant the closer you approach a floor value), that's still of limited value in this case. Because the last-gen "significant" gap was only 20%, whereas the current-gen "isn't a major" gap is 30%. So even though further from the floor value, the gap is actually bigger.

And, if we are consistent, this principle would mean that the One's framerate is significantly worse than PS4's--the 5fps gap means more when the baseline is in the 20s--but the article calls it "trivial". There's inconsistency in the language applied, which is what people are arguing.

Thanks for nailing the point of the problem better than I did.

 

[benny_a]

Someone should create a thread / twitter campaign to try and get Eurogamer to use Gamersyde like videos for their comparisons. Comparing games using low bitrate / 29fps Youtube videos is laughable in 2014...

They zoom in and use still shots when necessary. I think what they do is fine.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I mean this honestly, are you a native English speaker? That's a phrase that's specifically used in cases like this where someone missed something, and are correcting themselves.

Yes, all while making it seem like they came upon it themselves after a more thorough investigation rather than having missed it completely and only later having it pointed out to them that they fucked up. How about, "it's been pointed out to us that we missed..." or "we learned that we missed..."

 

[Gestault]

Yes, all while making it seem like they came upon it themselves after a more thorough investigation rather than having missed it completely and only later having it pointed out to them that they fucked up. How about, "it's been pointed out to us that we missed..." or "we learned that we missed..."

I feel like you're projecting quite a bit into what the phrase suggests.

 

[Sublyminal]

People still take DF seriously? Wasn't there a scandal not too long back involving them, once again? Can't remember.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

The PS4 version could run so much better if they lowered the resolution. Why go 1080p if the game runs like crap? Stupid decision.

 

[Curufinwe]

IIRC Digital Foundry had an article where they argued that 900p is actually a great resolution as you save processing power but it's not a huge difference between it and 1080p.

I don't think dark10x would agree with that, and i believe he does articles for DF. He said this to me in a PM back in November.

I maintain that native resolution is critical for maintaining a high quality image on a fixed pixel display. The main problem is that, mathematically speaking, most of the lower resolutions selected (such as 720p) do not scale evenly into 1080p. A perfect doubling of 720p would require a 2560x1440 display in which case pixels would be doubled in each direction producing a crisp, though lower resolution, image.

This is important for videogames due to the nature in which games are displayed.

 

[lmbotiva]

The PS4 version could run so much better if they lowered the resolution. Why go 1080p if the game runs like crap? Stupid decision.

it has a lot to do with the developer talent to optimize an engine, putting the 1080p resolution as an excuse for the game to run poorly makes no sense, a clear example of great optimization is assassins creed 4 on ps4, an open world game that runs at native 1080p and a rock solid 30 frames that very rarely drops and only when you have a lot of ships on a battle, the fact that thief runs poorly even on pc really says a lot about the game optimization

 

[benny_a]

I don't think dark10x would agree with that, and i believe he does articles for DF. He said this to me in a PM back in November.

He also said that Ryse at 900p towers over the rest of next-generation games at launch.

 

[RedAssedApe]

The PS4 version could run so much better if they lowered the resolution. Why go 1080p if the game runs like crap? Stupid decision.

i have a feeling the game would still run poorly at a lower resolution and difference would be negligible. something that looks this average with the proper optimization should be able to run at 30fps.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I want to hear more about the "single digit" PS4 framerate, where the game runs like a "slide show." You know, where the PS4 framerate is much worse than the Xbox One framerate. The "Megaton" you touted all over twitter.


I am anxious to see how you update your review, considering you said you would when DF did the framerate tests for you. I am anxious to hear your explanation, considering the awful PS4 framerate you detailed (which has been proven false, at least in relation to the Xbox One version) has been proven to be really wrong.


Maybe I am being too hard, maybe not. Its just with all the hyperbole your review's title had in it, and all your statements in the review. Its comical in my opinion. It all backfired, which wouldn't be a big deal if you didn't make such exact statements about the framerate.

And....silence.

LOL.

 

[Gestault]

He also said that Ryse at 900p towers over the rest of next-generation games at launch.

To be totally fair, that's a damn fine looking game. The combination of resolution and their AA solution gives it beautiful IQ on a 1080p display.

 

[Bundy]

The PS4 version could run so much better if they lowered the resolution. Why go 1080p if the game runs like crap? Stupid decision.

No need to lower the resolution. The PS4 could handle this game without any problems.
It's just the game that sucks. It went through development hell and runs like shit on nearly every platform.

 

[CoG]

More than anything what Thief does is show that when you don't spend enough time polishing a game before release, you get really, really bad results.

In all seriousness, when you're on update #4 of your original article maybe you should consider if writing is the best career path for you.

 

[benny_a]

To be totally fair, that's a damn fine looking game. The combination of resolution and their AA solution gives it beautiful IQ on a 1080p display.

Me citing Ryse as an example of what he said is just an illustration that obviously 1080p can't be so important, because Ryse at 900p "towers over the rest" of the launch titles.
It doesn't barely edge out to be the best looking game, but it towers over everything else.

inb4 "towers over the rest" doesn't mean what you think it means.

Have you played Ryse though?

I have no clue how that has any relevancy to me using dark10x's praise for Ryse as evidence that Digital Foundry thinks 900p is a good resolution.

Unfortunately I can't find the article any more where this point was argued.

 

[admartian]

So X1 does last-gen graphics better confirmed?

 

[funkystudent]

Any more UE3 games in the pipeline? I think its UE4 from here on out unless we see ports of the batman games and a few other things

 

[Iced_Eagle]

He also said that Ryse at 900p towers over the rest of next-generation games at launch.

Have you played Ryse though?

Crytek had a great AA solution for the game. Jaggies were never a problem. Sure, the gameplay got repetitive by the end, but I agree that it is the best looking next-gen game on either console platform. The character and facial animations were excellent and in my opinion sets the bar for what devs should be aiming for. Thief unfortunately falls quite short, let alone the dialog is frequently out of sync with the facial animations. It's quite awful actually.

 

[RoboPlato]

Have you played Ryse though?

Crytek had a great AA solution for the game. Jaggies were never a problem. Sure, the gameplay got repetitive by the end, but I agree that it is the best looking next-gen game on either console platform. The character and facial animations were excellent and in my opinion sets the bar for what devs should be aiming for. Thief unfortunately falls quite short, let alone the dialog is frequently out of sync with the facial animations. It's quite awful actually.

I hope something like Crytek's T1x SMAA solution catches on among other engines. It shouldn't be too much of a resource drain and it's far superior to most other post process AA techniques.

 

[Neuromancer]

dat PS4

I saw this happen today during a cutscene (PS4.) My game is fully installed and I didn't skip to any particular chapter.

 

[Oemenia]

Im surprised there are no conspiracy theories here yet. Oh well plenty of salt at least.

 

[djblackice]

No because downplaying resolution and framerate in favor of filtering.

Funny, no response from him. Not shocked and/or surprised.

 

[Zen]

They say in the update that it was fully installed.

I think they booted it up and went directly to chapter select on the PS4 vs. a playthrough from prologue until Chapter 4 on the Xbone.

This is absurdly sloppy for a site that's suppose to be conducting technical comparisons.

 

[Makai]

Holy sgit does it seem like they were reaching hard for an Xbox One win over the PS4.

They're kinda out of a job next gen if they give victory to PS4 in every comparison, especially since they don't offer 60fps videos anymore.

 

[Zen]

They're kinda out of a job next gen if they give victory to PS4 in every comparison, especially since they don't offer 60fps videos anymore.

The Xbox 360 largely dominated multi platforms for a LONG time during the last generation and that's largely when they rose to prominence. I would say that this generation is exactly why they should no declare a winner. Just list pros and cons at the end and let people make up their own minds.

Or they could come to absurd conclusions that call their professionalism or competency into question for massive controversy and clicks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/VinceZampella/status/439496742871269376?p=p

Surprised no thread was made already.

I don't have a twitter account, what does it say?

 

[Chobel]

I don't have a twitter account, what does it say?

 

[adamsapple]

I can't open the DF article at work, can someone tell me if it compares the current-gen versions as well ??

I ask because I had eyes-on experience with the PS3 version yesterday, while ugly (probably sub HD) at the least the frame rate seemed a solid 30 during the opening of the game.