Bits N Pieces
Member
Can someone explain to a dummy like me when they talk about a game being 4K on the PS4 Pro, is it native 4K or it something else?
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Digital Foundry: Three Hours with the PS4 Pro
- Thread starter RoboPlato
- Start date
That sounds better for sure. I was going by what some were saying in this thread.
it uses upgraded hardware and some fancy gpu tricks to give you a 4k output, but its not native rendering 4k. think of it just as really fancy upscaling, so the picture is MUCH better than 1080p but not quite as good as a real 4k native render you'd get on a pc with a beefy graphics card
but considering this is coming from a 400 dollar box, i think sony did a good job balancing horsepower and price. they clearly are still being conservative with their hardware so they can actually make profit and not be stuck in another ps3 situation
Primethius
Banned
Pro can do native 4k, and some games I'm sure will be native 4k.
However most are doing, from my understanding, a combination of techniques to achieve 4k (but obviously, not as crisp as the real thing). One of these is checkerboard rendering which Pro provides hardware wise.
CaptainSmirnov
Member
Every article on every site is filled with comments saying "UPSCALE" "PS4 FAKE 4K" when most of these people have probably not even seen actual 4k in person.
Playing native 4k on pc for a while has been great but i had to shell out the money for 2 1080s (about... $2000 CAD?). Watching the ps4 pro demos on my tv has been quite extraordinary considering the price of the box.
No it's not just an upscale, plug in an OG ps4 to a 4k tv and there's your upscale.
The upscale is whatever the difference is between base resolution and 4k, if there is one. They may be checkerboarding all the way to 4k.
Playing native 4k on pc for a while has been great but i had to shell out the money for 2 1080s (about... $2000 CAD?). Watching the ps4 pro demos on my tv has been quite extraordinary considering the price of the box.
No it's not just an upscale, plug in an OG ps4 to a 4k tv and there's your upscale.
The upscale is whatever the difference is between base resolution and 4k, if there is one. They may be checkerboarding all the way to 4k.
pixellated_man
Member
No it's not.
I suggest reading a little more before posting. Looks like you have a lot of catching up to do.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
diaspora is pretending to be confused to try and confuse others.
One guess who didn't read the article.
More than not clarifying, they haven't spoken about that at all yet.
Xbox has the weaker hardware, much weaker now. Wait 'til you see the Battlefield 1 comparisons.
No. Upscaling is just a simple upsize of an image. When you're talking about reconstruction that generates additional information it doesn't make sense to call it the same thing.
If I'm not mistaken. Games at 1080P should have an improvement in graphics, and performance. Because of the cpu up lock, and the better gpu.
For a $100 I'd go for that one, but that's just me.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Thanks guys, I still don't get it though that's just me not understanding the finer aspects of all the cool tricks the Pro can pull.
Horizon looks glorious though, no matter the resolution.
Horizon looks glorious though, no matter the resolution.
Suzushiiro
Banned
Yeah, I would presume that any game that's already punching well below the PS4's weight (indies, remasters, mid-tier titles like what Gust, Idea Factory, etc. put out) will usually do a "true" 4K because it's not hard to do whereas anything that's pushing the hardware remotely hard will do the checkerboard thing.
My one question is: if you're running on a 1080p display, will games in Neo mode using the checkerboard thing render at 4k and then scale down to 1080p? If so, will that look worse than a native 1080p non-checkerboard render?
My one question is: if you're running on a 1080p display, will games in Neo mode using the checkerboard thing render at 4k and then scale down to 1080p? If so, will that look worse than a native 1080p non-checkerboard render?
Scrotum Phillips
Member
What it seems like to me is that the developers can decide what to do with that extra power on 1080p tv's. So, theoretically better framerate could definitely be something they could decide or they could focus on maxing out graphical fidelity on 1080 or some combination of both. Multiplayer games will run at same framerates to not create disadvantages but with likely better graphics. All games starting I believe in late September will have to have a "Pro" mode.
An example I can see many developers following is what Tomb Raider is said to be doing. Next Tomb Raider will have 3 modes. A 4k mode, 1080p graphical "bells and whistle" mode and also a 1080p mode with less graphical fidelity but better framerate.
Frankly, if you're concerned about better framerate AND you're definitely buying a PS4, i'd recommend spending the extra $100 for the PS4 pro. That's what i'm doing and for the foreseeable future I'll not have a 4K tv. If you have an OG PS4, it probably isn't a bad idea to wait to see some of these policies in action first.
To hit checkerboard 4K it has to natively render around 2880x1620. I assume it uses that as the base for super sampling.
Well... having an OG PS4 will sound most disappointing after Nov 10th.
There's no "simple" upsizing. You need to some algorithm to generate the new pixels, whenever is just plain pixel duplication, to nearest-neighbor or other sampling techniques (what most TV's do) to fancier techniques that take samples from multiple frames, like the PS4 pro is doing.
Really, this controversy is hollow and just a matter of marketing shenanigans because, somehow, upscalling became a bad word. Is as stupid as anti-aliasing becoming undesirable because early incarnations of it destroyed the iq of games on the N64 days, an calling the newer techniques reconstructive edge smoothing or whatever.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
and for those who haven't bought a PS4 yet period (like me), it's a great entry point.
I think tandoori is on the same boat. =P
dano1
A Sheep
Well then you should probably just wait till PS5..
MisterR
Member
Seems to be the exact opposite of what Digital Foundry says.
That's interesting. I wondered if some of these games would render at native 1440p or something and then use this new solution to get the rest of the way to 4K.
Personally I still care more about hitting better framerates. With my 1070 I can run a lot of games at 1440p and 60fps and even some last-gen games at 4k60, but I've stuck with 1080p for most games because 1) I'm still on a 1080p TV and have no plans to shell out for a new one anytime soon, and 2) it keeps framerates more stable. I hope more games do the Tomb Raider solution.
So far, yes. My only complaint is the speakers lacking good bass. But a sound system could fix that. There's a forum on it that includes info and calibration settings. HDMI ports 3 and 4 support 4K@60hz
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...e/3207/topics/2461002?page=26&postid=45682609
Right. Though that native resolution will vary. The dev presentation leak listed a number of resolutions, 3200x1800 was one they seemed to really want devs to try and reach.
They specifically mentioned 1440p as not really being enough, in their experience, to look substantially better when upscaled or resampled to 4K. They seem to want more than that, 1800p as a starting point, but I'm sure some games will waiver on that depending on their performance profile. And then on the other end some games will go beyond that up to 4K native.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Maybe a dumb question, but won't HDR increase latency?
So is there no point in buying a 4k TV without HDR?
HDR is expensive as hell tho
Shopping for HDR TVs is messy today, especially for gaming. Enabling HDR can greatly increase input lag. There's a Samsung TV that goes beyond 100ms in lag...
Yeah, it seems to depend on the TV. Some are apparently better with this than others. So...be careful about which TV you get if you're sensitive to that, I guess.
yep
not to mention i would imagine the game mode on most tvs turns off hdr?
i'm hoping when i finally make the jump to a 4k oled, they will have more efficient processing of hdr that doesn't create as much latency
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
From the point of view of outputting HDR, no it shouldn't.
From the point of view of how a display handles processing an HDR input, it depends on the display.
Ah okay. Hopefully they deliver on their promise.
No, not native. They'll be doing what MS has gotten flack for all gen saying how their games are all 1080p upscaled or what have you.
BigEmil
Junior Member
Couple that with TV turned to Game mode and turn off every processing feature the TV has enables by default and it should be good.
poodaddy
Member
Damn I didn't know the upscaling reconstruction had a dedicated chip on the GPU. I wasn't caring at all until I learned that, now I'm interested. Wife would kill me if I bought this new and I don't have a 4K. Hopefully Sony has a bundle of the Pro and one of their high end 4K Bravia together so I can roll the financing plan together when the day comes.
Whats the new USB connection?
I think I will wait for a 4K, low latency, +120Hz, HDR, Oled, adaptive sync monitor...
See you in 2025 ; )
Thus makes zero sense, I'm sorry.
With the new DS4s you can connect them via USB to the PS4/Pro and it will transmit data through the cord, eliminating any wireless latency. Not sure how much latency there is to begin with though.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
You can give a misleading, salty, generalised answer to a question that doesn't have a singular answer all day long but you'll still be exposed for it.
Except Sony's scaling solution seems to result in impressive IQ improvements nearing native 4K, hence the praise they're getting from DF and other reporters who've seen Pro first-hand.
4k is taxing on most gpus. My gpu is much more powerul than a ps4 and can't do 60fps on last gen games at 4k.
BRocknRolla
Member
This is very much not the same thing.
By this logic, Nintendo should be claiming their games are in 4k, because my tv is upscaling them to 4k.
That's not what Sony is doing here. They have a variety of other techniques going in to improve image quality. They aren't just stretching out the image and calling it 4k.
Do you mean to tell me previous DS4s ONLY worked wirelessly, even if they were connected to the PS4 by USB?
WHAT?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
They worked while charging. I don't get why you make that assumption. His post is clear as day.
I think jett is expressing surprise that they were using wireless transmission even while physically connected, not wondering if they didn't work at all while charging.
It is kind of odd, although to be fair, the XB1 controller dropout when you connect and disconnect a controller is sort of annoying. PS4 sticking to 1 communication method does keep it smooth.
That's interesting. Strange it required a revision for this as I'm sure the current controllers transmit via the cable if you connect to a PC or PS3.