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[Playsage]

Anybody that thinks it won't clearly didn't learn their lesson yet.

Anybody that expects mandatory downgrades clearly hasn't paid attention lately

 

[thelastword]

OP, for someone with a Gon Freecs avatar, you sure are a pessimist.

OT: I honestly don't think that Anthem looks any better than some games already released. Horizon ZD is in my opinion a much more visually impressive game. Don't get me wrong, Anthem looks superb, but I don't particularly think it's doing anything that we haven't already seen on PS4, much less PS4 Pro and the XB1X.

There's no reason to expect a visual downgrade, imho. Given that it's running on Frostbite (the engine that allowed for stunning BattleFront visuals at 60fps on consoles) and the fact that Bioware Edmonton actually know what they're doing, if anything, I'd argue that it'll likely see some improvements prior to release.

Have a bit more faith OP... just like Gon

It's not so much that Anthem looks unbelievably good and can't be done, but some of the effects, water quality, lighting and lighting effects, foliage if it's not (photogrammetry) will have to be toned down. Some of these effects are expensive and nobody in their right mind should believe that the quality of these effects will be maintained across a huge open world game. What the demo showed was just several linear sections dialed up to 11 in terms of effects quality, it's not an indicator of what the final game will be.

Look at the storm, you would need a good CPU to handle the physics there. People are saying the XBONEX will do this no problem, but there are several layers to a game, everything is not about the GPU, animation quality is already not that great in the title. So when all is said and done they will have to hit a balance, and that predominantly means downgrades in several aspects to complement others. At the end of the day "framerate is king", not my words...... and you can't just give people a couple of scripted gameplay sequences and tell them it's an open world......

First of all because you get the very nice textures from it, so you dont need to rely as much on shape data for natural objects, while still look as "good" (subjective measurment, but still). Setting up a material library? What are you talking about, that doesnt have anything to do with photogrammetry per se? Delighting the albedo is pretty much completely automated process, there are tons of options there, plenty of software that do it for you. You also dont need to have a clean room for scanning. You can get quite good scans even going out with an iphone and scanning these days

I think he is trying to make photogrammetry exceedingly more complex than it is. As you said, any descent phone camera would suffice. The most important consideration for taking photos for games is to ensure that there is neutral lighting, too strong a light source from either direction can be a problem. So when you set up your camera on a rotator you only have to ensure that the light source is not too pervasive....That could be handled with some umbrellas and fluore lights....

More importantly, Capture tools/software can easily export a 3D mesh of your photo/s, which can then be easily imported to anything like Unity, UE4, Frostbite etc...Ehhh, the post processing work you will want/need to do can also be easily automated with freeware like Meshlab after import..and I'm sure there are tonnes of other software now. So I really don't get the difficulty there, especially when you compare it to traditional methods of art creation....Hey, one of the advantages of photogrammetry is that it's much faster to create vs the traditional way, like in everything in life, anything that comes too fast or too cheap will also have setbacks or some unwanted limitations, which is quite evident in battlefront imo...

yes.

Hey, people never learn.....Still I'm not even sure that making such a visual will deter people. Even though Andromeda hits severe downgrades on all platforms, some will still say the PC at max comes close or matches the initial reveal...Look at Witcher 3, you have people saying it looks like that on their PC maxed out.... So it's a slippery slope really.

 

[retardedrockstar]

Yes...

 

[Mr. Phellps]

Using Andromeda as a reason to believe there will be a downgrade is silly. You're essentially comparing a game that went through five years of messy development by an unexperienced, overly ambitious team to a game that's being developed by the main BioWare team with decades of experience.

So far, BioWare has never showed a game with visuals that didn't match its release state. Mass Effect: Andromeda is not the rule; it's the exception.

So, no, I don't believe there will be a downgrade. It could happen, but there's nothing that makes me believe it will.

 

[gafneo]

I think what we saw was a future HD remake of the real game.

 

[BigEmil]

Anthem is likely built from the ground up on Xbox One X hardware then downgraded, ported to other systems

 

[TheFatMan]

I don't expect there to be as much lighting and extra effects, but I feel the main graphics will stay the same.

They always sugar coat shit in reveal trailers so I'm sure it won't look like that come next year.

 

[thelastword]

Anthem is likely built from the ground up on Xbox One X hardware then downgraded, ported to other systems

Why XBONEX and not PC? Do they have a marketing deal with MS? Remember MS said XB1 owners will not be left back.....If this is a ground up game on XBONEX, then this means XB1 owners will be left behind the eight ball, since the disparity in GPU between the consoles is pretty significant as it is....

 

[Mifec]

Anthem is likely built from the ground up on Xbox One X hardware then downgraded, ported to other systems

http://www.pcgamer.com/ea-says-all-its-games-are-developed-for-high-end-pcs-first/

Nah

 

[hesido]

Frostbite says "Hello", and then, "No"

 

[Patryn]

Conception started sometime in 2013, not long after ME3's Citadel DLC was out and the trilogy ended.

Nope. They were already working on it in 2012, and it had begun before that (likely in 2011).

In fact, it was playable in 2013.

 

[Markitron]

I have no reason to doubt Bioware, and it's the same engine as Battlefront so it's certainly possible. Everyone accused DICE of this when they released the Battlefront trailer and that game looked just as good when it released.

They are getting the benefit of the doubt from me.

 

[BigEmil]

http://www.pcgamer.com/ea-says-all-its-games-are-developed-for-high-end-pcs-first/

Nah

What's a year old article got to do with this? Not like things can't change

 

[ViolentP]

2017 and some people still think conference presentations are accurate depictions of final products.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Foregone conclusion.

Shit, I also expect some scope changes as well and it won't look and play like that "gameplay" trailer. Either.

Watch them hype this game up and then not be able to deliver. Because they needed more time.


Hope I'm wrong though. Still it's a trend.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

I hope not. Yes it looks fantastic but it doesn't look impossible to me. And let's not forget it won't be out until late next year if there isn't another delay.

 

[Always-honest]

Anthem is likely built from the ground up on Xbox One X hardware then downgraded, ported to other systems

Likely not.

 

[InsaneTiger]

Sure, AI is an example. But it can be way more than that. There could be no inventory system running. There could be no real netcode. Effects could be completely fake for the demo. There are tons and tons of things that could be going on here, not to deceive anyone, but to show what the developer feels is a good representation of the final game, which again, is a year and half off.

I think people miss that what is usually shown is their vision as you explained. Developers have an idea of what they think they can deliver but as development rolls along and more systems comes into place that vision changes.

That is why I don't get mad when the Witcher 3 looks different than what was shown.

 

[Vooduu]

.

 

[ElfArmy177]

No. Battlefield 1 looks absolutely insane on consoles compared to other fps games. Frostbite is a beast and this game will look the same on Xbox one x. Save this post... Lol

 

[zoukka]

Personally I don't care at all. The devs don't owe me anything, the games and tech go through changes and optimization before release and everyone can go watch DF analysis videos before they buy the game.

 

[elelunicy]

I don't think it will get downgraded, as I'm not too impressed by it graphically & don't see anything that can't be done on the current hardware.

 

[Markitron]

I don't think it will get downgraded, as I'm not too impressed by it graphically & don't see anything that can't be done on the current hardware.

I think the doubt comes from the genre of game it is, if it was a linear single-player game I don't think anybody would be saying anything about it. Open-world multiplayer MMO-lites can go thru plenty of changes during development.

As I said earlier I don't think it's gonna change much myself.

 

[Ushay]

Why XBONEX and not PC? Do they have a marketing deal with MS? Remember MS said XB1 owners will not be left back.....If this is a ground up game on XBONEX, then this means XB1 owners will be left behind the eight ball, since the disparity in GPU between the consoles is pretty significant as it is....

Yes, MS has marketing on this. Thought this was common knowledge by now.

They most likely built it on PC first and then port down from that point.

 

[DOWN]

I thought Frostbite games were pretty on point compared to their E3 reveals? Battlefront and Battlefield 1 looked about spot on when playing on PC no?

 

[Always-honest]

I don't think it will get downgraded, as I'm not too impressed by it graphically & don't see anything that can't be done on the current hardware.

Well, a lot of people won't even be able to tell the difference anyway.
The game will look fine. Just not exactly like that i think. This was scripted and i guess with that lack of interactivity, more was possible on the effects and iQ side of things.

The one thing that was kinda weird for me was that there was still pop-in.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

What are Frostbite games usually like for downgrades? It's one of the most visually impressive engines out there, right? I can see the PC version looking pretty close to this. Probably the Scorpio version too. PS4 and Xbone vanilla won't look nearly this nice though.

I thought Frostbite games were pretty on point compared to their E3 reveals? Battlefront and Battlefield 1 looked about spot on when playing on PC no?

Yeah, this. Battlefront 1 still looks sensational.

 

[anothertech]

The battlefront straight up looks like cgi tagged as in engine

As does the realeased game at 60fps no less

BF2 looks even more impressive at 60fps on the same engine.

 

[Falchion]

Probably but I'm sure it'll still look really good in another year or so when it comes out.

 

[Alpha Phoenix]

Nope. They were already working on it in 2012, and it had begun before that (likely in 2011).

In fact, it was playable in 2013.

I figured it might have been earlier, but they didn't really start teasing it until after ME3 was done.

 

[Messofanego]

I love that in this thread someone who's not a game developer (Vigilant Walrus) is devsplaining to an AAA games developer (Snefer) lol

Generally what you do is that you make a target presentation/demo/showpiece that displays the level of quality you're aiming for.

They spend time on polishing up a tech demo- not just for trade show marketing purposes, but also to internalize as a team that this is the level of quality they are going for.
It's quite motivating and encouraging.
Normally, a game is not coming together until near the end. This can leave many people who work on the project for years, somewhat clueless and give them a sense of having no clear vision.


The more correct question would be; Can the full game they are making, reach the visual fidelity by this demo? To which the answer is probably not completely, but one would assume they'll try to get somewhat close.

As more gameplay systems, objects, enemies and so on enter the game, more hits are made on performance, and uncomfortable darlings will need to be killed. It's always like this. That tiny bit of post-processing that looks ohh so nice might very well be sacrificed because it just isn't worth the 10 fps hit when you're playing it moment to moment.

Which is to say, that it is very nice when developers give players the option to choose between lower framerates with more eye candy, or more smooth gameplay with some of the fancier bells and whistles disabled. We can hope the PC version will have a Ultra/High end mode that can take it to this level.

Not quite how things go down. E3 demos are rarely target renders nowadays (or target renders at all, cant think of a game in many years that actually did that, one thing to capture it on powerful hardware, one way to actually make it prerendered). E3 segments do naturally get more polish of course, and the optimisation part is more or less true (even though you would never make a postprocess effect that eats 10 fps unless you are a complete idiot)

Every games development is different, but I disagree with what you're saying completely.

It is a huge waste of time productivity wise to make a demo. It can easily take 6+ months just to focus on getting a demo ready, and it's largely doing work that you will need to go back and revise later.
I think you're gravely underestimating the the effort that goes into polishing something to make it look ready for a game that hasn't even had all of its systems developed.


And they are by definition target renderes. This whole thread, and all the drama that has followed similar outrages in the past are a testament to that.

I have worked on 20+ AAA games, I am fully aware of the work involved in E3 demos Its not at all by definition target renders. A target render is when you make a non-realtime render, and then you try to achieve that visual quality, its quite different. Sometimes that is being presented at E3 and is indeed a fake demo, but thats rarer than people on gaming forums think.

I think we're talking past each other here. I am not talking about a target renderer as in a Killzone 2 demo showing, I'm talking about polishing parts of a game prematurely for marketing and promotional purposes on a trade show.


Also, 20+ AAA games is a lot of games under your belt. Holy cow! I don't work in the games industry, but have worked a lot with software, and usually what we'd do is that we'd go out of our way to polish up a part of the app to show the client how it would feel across the spectrum.
it helps give the client a good idea of how the entire finished product could look like.

But of course it's only a tiny bit we've built, and we don't always are able to hit that level of quality across every aspect of the software, but we do try, and my experience has been that it's a motivator.
I just assumed it would be the same on many development teams.

Yeah, alright then Its just that target render tend to mean something else in a game production, is all. But yes, E3 demos are prematurely polished. If done well its a benefit to the game, if done in a bad way its a timesink. Hehe, yeah I managed to put my fingers into a lot of games over the years.

 

[icecold1983]

As does the realeased game at 60fps no less

BF2 looks even more impressive at 60fps on the same engine.

The actual game looks nothing like cgi

 

[bonesmccoy]

No, I expect it to look incredible in some spaces and normal/average in others.

But GAF, tell me: Is this game separate from the Mass Effect universe? It looks like it could be ME4

 

[mas8705]

Better question to ask is just how much of a downgrade will the game get when it does come out. Not to throw Anthem under the bus, but it is a song and dance we see all the time. Still, I like to think that it won't be too much at least in terms of EA (although I can't recall that many EA games I've played recently outside of Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare 2 and Titanfall)

 

[yurinka]

I think that in all consoles (including Xbox One X) and 99% of the PCs in the market it will get a massive downgrade.

For the higher end PCs available at launch, the downgrade will be important, but not that big.

The PS5 version will look similar to the video we saw.

 

[Ethelwulf]

I don't think, it will. Notice the coma.

 

[anothertech]

The actual game looks nothing like cgi

Well opinions and such I guess. But honestly I thought the finished game looked better than the initial reveals. Most Frostbite games have looked incredible at launch. And I feel this will too.

 

[icecold1983]

Well opinions and such I guess. But honestly I thought the finished game looked better than the initial reveals. Most Frostbite games have looked incredible at launch. And I feel this will too.

Dont get me wrong, from a visual standpoint its absolutely fantastic. I want that thought to be known, but imo its far below the initial in engine footage and a bit below the first gameplay footage

 

[Hesh]

That's how these things work. The devs work their ass off for one of these trade show demos so that everything runs as smooth as possible along a set path and the tester/producer running through and capturing the video has strict guidelines on what to do and what not to do. Optimization for the gold master is a whole other beast, so you're comparing what can run at 60 FPS in a small slice of the full game Vs. real-world application in the wild for the full game. It just doesn't compare. Even technical wizards will have to make concessions during development to maximize optimization.

I think an important distinction to make is that "downgrades" from trade show demo to retail build are not always because of bullshot or fabrication using pre-rendered footage for a trade show demo. The former is just how things work, but the latter most definitely should be called out and derided whenever it happens.

 

[Equanimity]

If anything, we should see a slight upgrade come release.

Bigs pubs know better than to show a game which won't match its presented form post the Watch Dogs final build fiasco.

 

[The Wheel of Fortune]

This is precisely why I'm not allowing myself to get so excited; we all know what's coming and have no excuse to get our hopes up.

 

[Floody]

Be really impressed if it isn't.

Even if Frostbite and EA have been pretty good at hitting what they show, game looks so much better than anything else, which is sadly just a big red flag for me now, instead of impressive and on top of that hasn't Bioware struggled with Frostbite in the past? I'm just not setting myself up for disappointment.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Be really impressed if it isn't.

Even if Frostbite and EA have been pretty good at hitting what they show, game looks so much better than anything else, which is sadly just a big red flag for me now, instead of impressive and on top of that hasn't Bioware struggled with Frostbite in the past? I'm just not setting myself up for disappointment.

The team that made Andromeda struggled a lot more than the team that had growing pains with Inquisition. This game is a lot closer to what FB is generally good at doing already tho. So can't imagine that they struggled as much.

 

[Alpha Phoenix]

Anthem is likely built from the ground up on Xbox One X hardware then downgraded, ported to other systems

Quite the opposite, actually.

 

[ChackanKun]

It's not that current gen consoles, even base ones, can't do those graphics. Just look at the new GoW or Horizon.

But it is Bioware, so....

 

[Zeus The Dino]

Anthem is likely built from the ground up on Xbox One X hardware then downgraded, ported to other systems

Damn imagine being this ignorant

 

[Inuhanyou]

don't believe E3 demos in general, they don't represent finished products most times.

 

[Christocolus]

For all, we know it could look slightly better at launch. This game has been in development for over 4 years now and I'm certain Dice will be pushing the XI hard as MS keeps optimizing the XDK. It will definitely look amazing on The 1X.

 

[Mifec]

What's a year old article got to do with this? Not like things can't change

Why would they change their whole process for 1 game? Marketing deals have no bearing on this.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's not that current gen consoles, even base ones, can't do those graphics. Just look at the new GoW or Horizon.

But it is Bioware, so....

Dragon Age Inquisition was one of the best looking games of 2014 tho?