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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

Boem

Member
They were going to kill the Trickster off if SJA had continued. Also, Jo Grant was going to reappear and they wanted Ace to show up as well. :(

Yeah, RTD even said that his idea for Ace would be to show a flashback to young Ace saying goodbye to the McCoy Doctor. In a faraway shot probably (assuming they couldn't get McCoy for such a short thing), but man.

It's impressive how healthy and full of life Liz Sladen appeared in those final episodes. If you didn't know what was going on behind the scenes, you'd never guess she was seriously ill. Truly a legend.
 
I really hope one day the Doctor bumps back into some of the kids from SJA. They're all still acting, all in their 20s. I always thought Clyde was the greatest companion the Doctor never had of the recent era - something which comes through in his interactions with Tennant and Smith in the episodes they appeared in. I think eventually we will reach the time when the Liz wounds aren't so raw that we can have Luke appear and reveal that in-universe Sarah Jane has passed on. Give her a goodbye. Maybe he'll be the Kate Stewart figure in 20 years' time, heh.

To be fair to what you are saying, you could have removed Jack, Sarah Jane and Martha Jones from the whole script and barely any of the episode would have changed. The only important players in the episode were Rose, Donna and the Doctor. Everyone else was plot fluff.

I honestly disagree with this as Jack has a clear role - like in Series 1's finale, he's there to be the one willing to commit violence. An enormous part of the emotional point of the whole episode is when he and Sarah Jane - two unlikely allies, given the antithesis of what their two shows are about - team up, his know how, her technology, the plan literally to perform a suicide bombing. The episode needed that beat, and so Jack and Sarah are actually pretty key in an emotional sense, if not in a plot nuts-and-bolts thing.

Jackie and Mickey don't have anything to do, though, and it's clear RTD struggled - in the writers' tale he talks about removing Jackie from the script, but laments that they'd already booked Camille Coduri for the weeks and he went back and forth about just having her on Bad Wolf Bay at the end, but then kept her in throughout. Mickey I think fits as good window-dressing - there's a good dynamic between him and Jack, and there was a real-world reason for putting him in because at the time the plan was for him to join Torchwood full-time... then his directing career took off and that killed that idea, but still.

Martha, however - I think she belongs, but I do think Journey's End shows, for better and for worse, how she's the odd one out. Everyone else is interacting all the time. The show goes to pains to put all of the 'true' companions together by the end of part one - Rose, Jack, Donna and the Doctor, together in the TARDIS. Martha is left behind. It takes care to give Jack and Sarah scenes together, to stitch Torchwood and SJA together. Jack and Mickey have a great relationship. But it's strange, honestly - like Jack and Martha don't interact one-on-one at all really, something strange considering she's actually been a temporary member of the Torchwood team at that point.

Even towards the end - everyone is sort of pairing off as the Dalek plan backfires. Donna and the two Doctors are together, doing the work. But then you get shots of people teaming up - Jack tossing Mickey a gun and the pair of them holding up Davros, Sarah and Rose greeting each other while pushing away a helpless Dalek. Martha gets a shot on her own.

She doesn't fit with the group. (Though she fits in the episode for similar reasons to Jack/Sarah). She never did. But that, I suppose, is in many ways the point of her character.
 

Jofamo

Member
I haven't watched anything since the last Christmas Special, but I'm gonna be fairly light on work over this weekend so I thought I'd spend some time catching up on this Series.

Of what's been shown so far, are there any duds? I honestly found the last Christmas Special really poor. After being a fan of the show for so long, it really soured me.

However, I watched The Pilot and it was actually pretty good!

Are there any safe skips on what's been shown so far, or should I suck it up and watch them all?
 

M.Bluth

Member
Are there any safe skips on what's been shown so far, or should I suck it up and watch them all?

Yeah, just watch it all. I've enjoyed this season, though I think there are two episodes I consider completely skippable. But the thing this thread taught me is, you never know what you'll end up liking, so if you have the time, why skip anything?

If you're a Who fan, you've already watched far shittier episodes
 
Watched 'An Adventure in Space and Time' last night. Really good stuff. Glad Mark Gattis was able to make it, didn't realize he had been trying since the 90's.
 

Jofamo

Member
Yeah, just watch it all. I've enjoyed this season, though I think there are two episodes I consider completely skippable. But the thing this thread taught me is, you never know what you'll end up liking, so if you have the time, why skip anything?

If you're a Who fan, you've already watched far shittier episodes

Understood. Out of interest, what did you think of the last Christmas Special?
 

Tregard

Soothsayer
Not looking for spoilers, but what are the odds on the regeneration being this episode? Do we still not know one way or the other?
 
Amazingly, whatever is going to happen today is still pretty much secret.

There's been a rumor that got out, but it seems unsourced/unconfirmed. But nothing appears to have been legitimately spoiled.

Well, at least not for the next few hours, that is.
 

iMax

Member
Not looking for spoilers, but what are the odds on the regeneration being this episode? Do we still not know one way or the other?

There are some rumblings that an official announcement of the next Doctor will follow immediately after the episode, so a tease at the very least is likely.
 

Blader

Member
But Moffat was pretty specific that the Doctor had only thirteen lives, we know all of them, they were all at the final battle at Gallifrey and none of them was a woman. Just stupid IMO.
I think you're overthinking it. It's just a joke about the distinction between male and female not being as clear to the Doctor.
 

Boem

Member
There are some rumblings that an official announcement of the next Doctor will follow immediately after the episode, so a tease at the very least is likely.

Could be, although at the same time, it was always going to be announced before the Christmas episode actually aired, so it would make sense to do it now as the show is still (somewhat) in the public consciousness.

But if they actually pulled off showing him/her (it's going to be a him) tonight without it leaking, that would be incredible. But I don't really think so honestly.
 

JoeM86

Member
I really do hope we get the regeneration, or part of it, in the show today. Having it not leak out who it is would be nothing short of phenomenal in this day and age, and if they manage to pull it off then I will be very impressed and excited.

We haven't had a new Doctor reveal (excluding John Hurt) in the show since the revival began. It always leaked out. I think they tried to do it with Tennant, but after it leaked that Eccleston was leaving, it then leaked that it was Tennant. But alas.

When's the next series being filmed?
 

iMax

Member
Could be, although at the same time, it was always going to be announced before the Christmas episode actually aired, so it would make sense to do it now as the show is still (somewhat) in the public consciousness.

But if they actually pulled off showing him/her (it's going to be a him) tonight without it leaking, that would be incredible. But I don't really think so honestly.

Would be fucking amazing if the 13th Doctor shows up to rescue the 12th.
I really do hope we get the regeneration, or part of it, in the show today. Having it not leak out who it is would be nothing short of phenomenal in this day and age, and if they manage to pull it off then I will be very impressed and excited.

We haven't had a new Doctor reveal (excluding John Hurt) in the show since the revival began. It always leaked out. I think they tried to do it with Tennant, but after it leaked that Eccleston was leaving, it then leaked that it was Tennant. But alas.

When's the next series being filmed?

I seem to remember the Eccleston leaving announcement came about 1 week into series one—was very quick!
 
I really do hope we get the regeneration, or part of it, in the show today. Having it not leak out who it is would be nothing short of phenomenal in this day and age, and if they manage to pull it off then I will be very impressed and excited.

We haven't had a new Doctor reveal (excluding John Hurt) in the show since the revival began. It always leaked out. I think they tried to do it with Tennant, but after it leaked that Eccleston was leaving, it then leaked that it was Tennant. But alas.

When's the next series being filmed?

S11 should be filming this fall.
 
Would be fucking amazing if the 13th Doctor shows up to rescue the 12th.


I seem to remember the Eccleston leaving announcement came about 1 week into series one—was very quick!

The 12th doctor gives one of his hearts to save Bill, then the 13th gives one of his hearts to 12 so he has enough hearts so in the future he can give one to himself.
timey wimey.
 

Boem

Member
I seem to remember the Eccleston leaving announcement came about 1 week into series one—was very quick!

Yeah it was insane. And this was even in the days when it wasn't 100% sure that all of the classic Doctors 'counted' - there was even that famous quote in one of RTD's older shows going around about how McGann wasn't a 'real' Doctor, confusing the matter even more.

People very quickly assumed Eccleston was going to regenerate, but there was a little space of time where it actually seemed the show was doomed from the start, with reports from a very troubled production and Billie Piper at that point still mostly being seen as a one hit wonder pop song girl added to the mix.

Things all worked out of course, but it was a very weird thunderstorm right at the start of the show.

Since it came back? Just John Hurt as the War Doctor.

To add to this, the classic Doctors also all got announced in advance.

There are collections of all the old Radio Times announcement articles floating around.
 
I'm actually not sure if the old ones got to surprise audiences or not. It's hard to say for me - My first Doctor was the fourth, via PBS, and I didn't know there were any other doctors for a very long time.

I'd imagine that just due to the nature of media, entertainment media, and the way the show was distributed (such as it was) back then - there were probably a LOT of people who would watch a series and not know there was a regeneration coming until it happened. BBC probably wasn't endeavoring to keep it secret, but a large segment of the audience was also probably not taking care to seek the info out, either.
 

Boem

Member
I'm actually not sure if the old ones got to surprise audiences or not. It's hard to say for me - My first Doctor was the fourth, via PBS, and I didn't know there were any other doctors for a very long time.

I'd imagine that just due to the nature of media, entertainment media, and the way the show was distributed (such as it was) back then - there were probably a LOT of people who would watch a series and not know there was a regeneration coming until it happened. BBC probably wasn't endeavoring to keep it secret, but a large segment of the audience was also probably not taking care to seek the info out, either.

Oh yeah, the US is different of course, but in the UK DocWho was always present enough in the public consciousness that a new actor taking over was very much a known news story. They got press announcements in print media and news reports and everything (and, very relevant in the UK at the time, big Blue Peter specials).
 

Mariolee

Member
I'm keeping expectations low and not expecting to see the new Doctor today. Haven't kept up with spoilers and rumors so don't know how likely it is, but based on one spoiler-free review this episode is surprisingly small and personal for a Moffat finale.

Just hope they can stick the landing after last weeks episode.
 

Boem

Member
Yeah I really don't think they're going to show him tonight. Would be fun but I think they'll save it for Christmas.

Who I do think will show up (confirmed spoiler for Christmas so be warned):
a glimpse/cliffhanger showing the First Doctor popping up in the Tardis or something

I think that's slightly more likely, and just as much of a hype thing to get people to tune in later on.
 

Blader

Member
Hard to believe tonight is Moffat's last finale, and second-to-last-ever episode of Doctor Who. Even harder to believe that its been seven years since S5. It doesn't feel that recent, but it also doesn't feel that long ago either!

As much shit as he's gotten over the years, and as flawed as he may be as a showrunner (as showrunner is), I'm really going to miss the Moffat era. I came in late during RTD's tenure (think I started watching the show sometime between The Next Doctor and Planet of the Dead), so Moffat's is the first one I've watched from start to finish in real time. Tennant may still be "my Doctor" but Moffat's vision of the show is, and might always be, "my Doctor Who" and it'll be very strange when all that ends and changes.

I'm curious to see what Chibnall has cooked up for the show -- though a little wary, as I don't think much of his past Who contributions and thought Broadchurch tanked in S2 after an excellent S1 -- but it's just starting to sink in for me that this is really the end of an era.
 

Santiako

Member
I can't believe we are two hours away of Capaldi's last regular episode. ;_; I'm going to miss him so much, best Doctor by far.
 

Boem

Member
I can't believe we are two hours away of Capaldi's last regular episode. ;_; I'm going to miss him so much, best Doctor by far.

Not to mention very likely Missy's last episode. Best Master after Delgado!

Okay, final, final predictions, just for fun:

- Bill will live.
- Nardole will die.
- Missy won't exactly die (or at least we won't see her regenerate into someone else), but it will be the end to her part of the Master's story and there will be a closer of sorts for her.
- The Doctor's regeneration will be set in motion, but we won't see the next Doctor yet.
- The cliffhanger will have that guest appearance I mentioned in the spoiler above.
- We will actually see/spend time on Mondas. Not sure how it could tie in with the black hole, but it seems relevant.
- K9 turns out to have been Omega all along.
- The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within.

Wildcard bet that I don't actually believe:

- We'll catch a glimpse of the various classic series Masters. Not a big thing, just a quick old footage shot.
 

Symphonia

Banned
We have two Masters, so why not two Doctors? Thirteen arriving in time to save Twelve by killing the Masters. Twelve, struck by grief by what 'he' just did, banishes Thirteen and 'kills' himself, prompting a regeneration.
 

Boem

Member
We have two Masters, so why not two Doctors? Thirteen arriving in time to save Twelve by killing the Masters. Twelve, struck by grief by what 'he' just did, banishes Thirteen and 'kills' himself, prompting a regeneration.

That sounds way too 90s hardcore comics for this show honestly. The Doctor will never kill himself. I think we had a discussion about that possibility on here a couple of days/weeks ago actually, but nah, really can't see that happening, and I don't think it would be right for what this show is. The Doctor, even if he hates certain parts of himself, celebrates life.

I also think having the new Doctor showing up now is just too early to make sense. There's already a lot going on here. Especially because review copies have already been sent out, and while most sites/publications are generally decent about not spoiling anything, that definitely would have come out at this point. There's actual money to be made in being the first publication to report who the next Doctor is going to be.

I can see the new Doctor having a larger part in the Christmas special though - more than the standard 'final 3 minutes of gibberish' scene.
 
Also - didn't John Hurt technically leak as in America they sent out the DVDs of that series early and had to ask fans nicely not to spoil?
 

Broken Joystick

At least you can talk. Who are you?
One hour
crying-man.gif
 

M.Bluth

Member
We have two Masters, so why not two Doctors? Thirteen arriving in time to save Twelve by killing the Masters. Twelve, struck by grief by what 'he' just did, banishes Thirteen and 'kills' himself, prompting a regeneration.

Part of me feels this should never happen. One, because I prefer the regenerating incarnation to triumph/sacrifice itself in a celebration of that era.

And, two, for crying out loud, people argue often, and at length, that 10's "I don't wanna go" line diminished his character. What would be the reaction to the legacy of an incarnation who not only failed to overcome his last test, necessitating another version to save his ass, but also went as far as to end himself for being sad?

Thing is, Moffat's the guy who went out of his way to lowkey retcon 10's final line to refer to an ultimate end to the Doctor rather than simply not wanting to regenerate, so I feel inclined to expect something more in line with the previous Doctors, especially 11th's—bittersweet and full of hope.
 

Boem

Member
Compared to the money lost by violating the non-disclosure agreement accompanying the review terms?

Well, sure, but that's how publications like Daily Mail get their scoops so early - people breaking NDA's anonymously, sometimes for money.

Also - didn't John Hurt technically leak as in America they sent out the DVDs of that series early and had to ask fans nicely not to spoil?

That is a good point! Totally didn't remember that.
 
So after today's episode, we're going to be waiting for about 5 months for the new Doctor? That sucks.

5 months before we see them for all of 30 seconds at the end of the Christmas Special.

Though i expect at least 5 fakeouts tonight and 3 during the special.

That said, I should think we'll get an announcement of who it is well before Christmas
 

Mariolee

Member
Remember how they had a screening for Clara's reveal in the first episode of Series 7 and they asked no one to let the secret out...and no one did?

Between this and the John Hurt thing Doctor Who fans are insanely loyal.
 
Yeah but nobody leaked it I think.

I think if you hit up the right bit of Gallifrey Base you'd have seen it, but it wasn't widely known. Would need to look back to verify.

Remember how they had a screening for Clara's reveal in the first episode of Series 7 and they asked no one to let the secret out...and no one did?

Between this and the John Hurt thing Doctor Who fans are insanely loyal.

At Capaldi's first episode they asked us not to leak the Matt Smith bit, but that'd already leaked from filming IIRC.
 
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