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Hitman: Absolution and Tomb Raider 2013 led to a "it hurts when breathe" scenario.
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Does Anyone Else Feel Disconnected From the Modern PC Gamer?
- Thread starter DocSeuss
- Start date
Hitman: Absolution and Tomb Raider 2013 led to a "it hurts when breathe" scenario.
Personally I find PC landscape the most diverse of the main platforms supporting gaming (not counting iOS/Android as I hardly ever use those two and barely know them for games).
Of course, with the advent of internet coupled with the huge spread of PC gaming culture the most popular trends will longways seem to be dominating and they will - by the nature of any medium when it gets popular enough - lean to the homogeneous choices of the day.
The diversity is there but it's not going to be apparent looking at the most popular Steam titles - those will skew exactly as you've noticed. It doesn't mean lots of Steam gamers aren't playing other stuff (I am for example) but it's not going to show up in that way.
As an analogy - which is probably a mistake but I'll try anyway - look at films. You'd think from 2012 all anyone watched was The Avengers, The Dark Knight Rises, Skyfall and Spiderman. Yet I only watched two of those and mostly watched (and enjoyed) other films that simply won't get the same general market visibility of being popular - sure it'd be nice to feel that movie going in the West wasn't all about a few relatively similar blockbusters that have the broadest appeal and tap into the most popular genres, but it's just the nature of the beast and it doesn't mean the other stuff (and people enjoying that stuff) aren't out there : they're just less noticeable that's all.
Of course, with the advent of internet coupled with the huge spread of PC gaming culture the most popular trends will longways seem to be dominating and they will - by the nature of any medium when it gets popular enough - lean to the homogeneous choices of the day.
The diversity is there but it's not going to be apparent looking at the most popular Steam titles - those will skew exactly as you've noticed. It doesn't mean lots of Steam gamers aren't playing other stuff (I am for example) but it's not going to show up in that way.
As an analogy - which is probably a mistake but I'll try anyway - look at films. You'd think from 2012 all anyone watched was The Avengers, The Dark Knight Rises, Skyfall and Spiderman. Yet I only watched two of those and mostly watched (and enjoyed) other films that simply won't get the same general market visibility of being popular - sure it'd be nice to feel that movie going in the West wasn't all about a few relatively similar blockbusters that have the broadest appeal and tap into the most popular genres, but it's just the nature of the beast and it doesn't mean the other stuff (and people enjoying that stuff) aren't out there : they're just less noticeable that's all.
Just look at Far Cry 3 and Tomb Raider for examples of too much gaminess. Unnecessary xp and skill trees, icons of junk missions and busywork filling the map to pad the game, mini map and other hud elements thrown on the screen (versus something like Far Cry 2's cool map system).
I think my tastes are a bit wider than OP's so I don't really perceive it as much, but I still get what he's saying. I do wish more ambitiously designed, single player oriented and "complex" experiences were available, instead of the hand-holding and "quick fun" games that seem to dominate the industry.
However, seeing how game development is an industry, and is thus mostly motivated by money, I'd say I'm content with the amount of experiences like those that we do get, since I'm conscious studios are being risky by making them in the first place. XCOM:EU, the Civilization games, the Double Fines (some), FTL, etc... (Planetary Annihilation by Uber also comes to mind) I perceive as being ambitiously designed and are really enough for me to get into for a good while, mixing them with the more "casual, hand-holding" ones while I wait for another to come out.
However, seeing how game development is an industry, and is thus mostly motivated by money, I'd say I'm content with the amount of experiences like those that we do get, since I'm conscious studios are being risky by making them in the first place. XCOM:EU, the Civilization games, the Double Fines (some), FTL, etc... (Planetary Annihilation by Uber also comes to mind) I perceive as being ambitiously designed and are really enough for me to get into for a good while, mixing them with the more "casual, hand-holding" ones while I wait for another to come out.
I'm just picking this one point out of the huge post, but I can at least answer that one. X³: Albion Prelude was out last year, and X Rebirth is set for 2013.
Plus Elite IV should be arriving around the same time. Maybe if these two kick off in a big way we could see Koch and Volition get behind a real-deal PC-only 'Freespace 3'. I take it that would be to Lime's liking.
Don't known if these are exact matches: but some suggestions based on your list.
1) Drox Operative. Basically you're doing a Space ARPG in the middle of a Space 4X game. Not an exact fit, but a really interesting concept and fun game. It's indie but extremely well-polished.
2) There's plenty of those on Steam right now- it's not like those games require a huge budget.
3) Singleplayer campaign space RTS- Sins is the best one in recent history. These aren't that common.
4) Dungeonland comes out this week- Paradox is aiming for a spiritual successor, but Paradox's 3rd-party record is spotty, with some gems and bombs, so buyer beware.
5) No idea.
6) Startopia?
7) THe folks who did that game have had some bad times- and are putting their future on a Kickstarter named Wildman. Concept looks good but I suspect it will end up being more than they can chew- kinda like Stardock with War of Magic.
The Diversity is out there, you just gotta look around a bit, retail isn't around anymore. (and the end of retail has massively expanded diversity)
Games can be either overt or covert about their rules and mechanics. A game with a covert sense of mechanics is, like, STALKER, where everything is as real-time and close to reality as it can be. Abstractions are, as best as possible, kept at a minimum (used primarily in place of various animations). In STALKER, players 'level up' by getting better equipment and artifacts--it's all fairly rational and real-world.
A game with an overt sense of mechanics is a game like Far Cry 3, where players are constantly seeing XP, watching journal entries getting unlocked, having tooltips pop up in the game, and so on and so forth. Things are so much more abstracted. If you stab a guy, you're going to play one of a select series of animations to do so. If you skin an animal, you're going to have to cycle though the same series of animations.
STALKER tries its best to obfuscate the fact that it's a game and tries to get players to accept that it's a virtual reality.
Far Cry 3, in contrast, is constantly screaming at the player "HEY! I'M A GAME! PLAY ME!"
I prefer the former style of game design, but it's become increasingly uncommon, much to my chagrin.
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I'm going to commit heresy to go a step further and suggest that "games" are a bad name for the medium and overtly restrictive in terms of overall digital entertainment. In particular, it pushes away from the notion of virtual realities, and demands that everything have some sort of win/loss scenario or 'rules.'
It's all interactive digital entertainment, in the end, whether it's Dear Esther or Unreal Tournament or Tetris or Planescape: Torment.
I tried to dip my toes into the X games, but they don't hit the same buttons that X-Wing or Wing Commander does.
Sins is 4X, not RTS. Sins =/= Homeworld
When people talk about Adventure Games, they generally refer to LucasArts and Sierra titles. The LucasArts-style games in particular seem nonexistent.
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Stalker's fetch quests are about as gamey as it gets.
And I fucking love Stalker more than damn near every other shooter.
And I fucking love Stalker more than damn near every other shooter.
I kind of agree. I was a huge PC gamer in the 98-04 timeline but nowadays I just can't get interested in the games people play on PC. I think a big reason why this is so is that nowadays almost everything that is on PC is also found on other platforms. It wasn't this way 10-15 years ago.
But I have to say that I'm happy that cRPGs are booming in current kickstarters. I have missed that genre.
But I have to say that I'm happy that cRPGs are booming in current kickstarters. I have missed that genre.
My memories of STALKER, admittedly, are clouded by my memories of modded STALKER.
I can't agree with this. There are more exclusives on PC than ever before, of that I have no doubt. They may not appeal to your tastes, but they are definitely there.
The majority of my gaming over the past 5 years or so has been PC exclusives, and not just sticking to a handful of games for hundreds/thousands of hours either. I mean going from game to game like your average CoD gamer.
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The side quests are literally the exact same kind of busywork that Far Cry 3's are, but people look past it because it's a more compelling experience overall.
Yeah, it is one of the best aspects of that game. You "level up" by just becoming better at the game. When I first played SOC I died so many times doing the first mission. When I finally did complete it all my companions had died and I was almost dead. The game is hard right from the start and requires you to come to grips with it rapidly, but learning how to play is so much more rewarding that way. Now I can breeze through that mission no problem. It's just one reason that game is so different from anything else I have played.
The cancelling of Stalker 2 was a huge loss for PC gaming. I believe in those guy so I am optimistic about their new game, but it just seems kinda strange for them to make that kind of game.
These days CD Project Red are making the games I am most excited about. I can't wait for The Witcher 3.
That's not true, as there's more exclusives on PC this generation than any other platform thanks to an almost 'B-tier' games market that's being propped up by DD, that market has pretty much gone extinct elsewhere thanks to AAA saturation. The multiplatform 'revolution' also helped more console-oriented games find their way onto PC. The trouble is everything is getting a bit too homogenous and 'simple' with big budget titles.
trab pu kcip
Member
to all the people praising stalker...have you tried metro 2033? reminded me of stalker in a very good way. especially in the ranger hardcore setting shit literally "get's real"
I do agree with Far Cry. Great world and decent mechanics but man they really really created a terrible story and characters. Dishonored was the same way. I do not understand why people dislike Dota 2 or multiplayer gaming...that's one of the strengths of the platform. I loved NOLF and NOLF 2 but really they were just really solid heavily scripted shooters. If I had to take that or Dota2, I'd take the multiplayer game every time.
Well for one the DOTA community is not the most welcoming group of people, but the main thing is that some people just dont really care for MP. I enjoy both, but I do think that single player is my favorite. When it comes to immersing yourself into a world it really does have to be single player. I also like it because it gives you more freedom to manipulate the game world and play around. Usually MP games are so focused that you dont really get the sandbox effect. Even when single player games are not open world you get to mess around in them.
Lasthope106
Member
PC gaming has never been better IMO. Sure, we don't get AAA exclusive games anymore, but I'm ok with that. For the past 4-6 years we have gotten the best versions of AAA multiplatform games.
Indie games on pc are on their own league. Not to mention this year we'll start to see if Kickstarter is indeed a viable way to get the pc games we want made.
I don't play multiplayer games, and hell... my Steam backlog is huge! How can OP have played everything that has come out on pc in the last few years?
You want a recommendation OP? You are saying you want a hardcore single-player game, then go play Dark Souls.
edit: S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is not becoming Survarium. The S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series is dead. It's the same developers, but don't expect to get the same experience.
Indie games on pc are on their own league. Not to mention this year we'll start to see if Kickstarter is indeed a viable way to get the pc games we want made.
I don't play multiplayer games, and hell... my Steam backlog is huge! How can OP have played everything that has come out on pc in the last few years?
You want a recommendation OP? You are saying you want a hardcore single-player game, then go play Dark Souls.
edit: S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is not becoming Survarium. The S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series is dead. It's the same developers, but don't expect to get the same experience.
I suppose if you like to be immersed in a world. I do get those moments here and there but generally speaking, stories are typically so terrible that mechanics end up being the most important part. In both Far Cry 3 and Skyrim, it's generally just exploration and graphics that drew me in. The second I go from picking berries and killing animals to revisit the story quest, I'm instantly reminded of how bad that part of the game is. Even a game that is well regarded as having some memorable characters and writing like New Vegas is really hit and miss depending on the quest.
Since Baldur's Gate came out, every single rpg has been simply average in comparison. I know that there will never be another rpg as good, Bioware has even admitted as such. So those days are over and we are left with "cinematic" type rpgs. I have some hope for Project Eternity, but I would bet my house that it isn't anywhere near as deep or fun as BG2. It sucks that the average Joe is satisfied with Skyrim.
Contrary to what the internet hordes say, D3 has some really good traits (skill runes, visceral combat) and I really think Blizzard will greatly improve on the game with the expansion. Most of the haters are too young to realize that the same exact thing happened with D2 and look how that turned out...
DOTA2 is simply amazing, nothing else really needs to be said about it. Yes, it's a huge improvement over WC3 DOTA due to the huge feature list. The community is truly poison, but that's not Valve's fault. Only thing missing is a concede feature.
I thougt MMOs were the greatest thing on earth for a few years, but now I realize they're all garbage. GW2 is no exception and I found all the pre-launch hype here hilarious.
SC2 is great but it is a truly difficult game and certainly isn't for everyone. The same could probably be said for COH2.
FPS as a genre is totally dead to me. The Half-Life games are all spectacular, but nowadays there isn't a single fps that I would even bat an eye at. All cater to the lowest common denominator (Dishonored being no exception).
I still love GTA games but why on earth can't we get a PC release. Playing shooters with a controller is so pedestrian.
TLDR: Baldur's Gate is the greatest ever and we will never have another game as good, DOTA 2 is great but the community can go to hell, Diablo 3 will be great with xpac.
Contrary to what the internet hordes say, D3 has some really good traits (skill runes, visceral combat) and I really think Blizzard will greatly improve on the game with the expansion. Most of the haters are too young to realize that the same exact thing happened with D2 and look how that turned out...
DOTA2 is simply amazing, nothing else really needs to be said about it. Yes, it's a huge improvement over WC3 DOTA due to the huge feature list. The community is truly poison, but that's not Valve's fault. Only thing missing is a concede feature.
I thougt MMOs were the greatest thing on earth for a few years, but now I realize they're all garbage. GW2 is no exception and I found all the pre-launch hype here hilarious.
SC2 is great but it is a truly difficult game and certainly isn't for everyone. The same could probably be said for COH2.
FPS as a genre is totally dead to me. The Half-Life games are all spectacular, but nowadays there isn't a single fps that I would even bat an eye at. All cater to the lowest common denominator (Dishonored being no exception).
I still love GTA games but why on earth can't we get a PC release. Playing shooters with a controller is so pedestrian.
TLDR: Baldur's Gate is the greatest ever and we will never have another game as good, DOTA 2 is great but the community can go to hell, Diablo 3 will be great with xpac.
Riposte
Member
This is partially why people shouldn't hate sequels. Even slightly better versions of games are good given if people stop making games you would probably just play the ones around today forever.
I think it's because STALKER doesn't go "Look at me! I'm a game!" like Far Cry 3 does.
Far Cry 3:
There's an icon on the map. You go there. A guy is standing there. He asks you to go to a mission. A map marker pops up elsewhere. You return. He's standing in the same place. His dialog is entirely canned. XP REWARD flashes on screen.
STALKER: Clear Sky:
You find the captain of a group of stalkers walking throughout The Zone. You talk to him. He asks you to do a favor (usually because he's low on supplies), and you agree. The object is placed, not in your field of view, but on your PDA's map. You consult the PDA to make sure you're heading the right direction. You go there. You get the object. You return. He thanks you and pays you.
It just... STALKER makes it seem like it's a more natural encounter, even though they're both fetch quests.
I accidentally murdered a guy once, so I committed suicide via radiation poisoning.
One thing I love about STALKER is its first level. It's just so... absolutely flawless. If you're willing to think outside of traditional gaming philosophies, things are so much more interesting.
The game teaches you dialog, first aid, interaction with other STALKERs, mission structure, and combat all in one go. Then it introduces you to the soldiers. Thing is, you are basically told "you can either fight them or give them money," but the game doesn't give you enough money.
It never tells you that you can, in fact, sneak around the soldiers. You have to discover that for yourself. Once you start venturing off the beaten path and treating the world like a real space (the entire point of Cordon as a level), you begin to understand how to play the game.
It's so much better than Valve's approach of "here is a series of gradually increasing difficulty puzz--oh. Now the game's over. How about that?"
The problem is that these games tend to appeal more to the Fellowship/Submission/Sensation areas of fun rather than the Expression/Discovery/Challenge kinds of fun.
Occasionally, you'll get challenging games, like Super Meat Boy, but it's still much more about the mechanical sensation than expression and discovery.
Metro 2033 is pretty cool, but its nauseatingly narrow FOV and general sense of linearity made it a bit less interesting to me. I would have enjoyed if it were a lot more free-form.
Not everyone has the same interests.
NOLF and NOLF2 weren't just solid, heavily-scripted shooters. If you want a heavily-scripted shooter, try playing Battlefield 3, which is so bad that it will kill you if you enter a QTE crouching instead of standing, without letting you know that you were supposed to crouch/stand.
I'd argue that it's not better. I'd argue that--as I explained above--it's catering to a select set of fun types that do not appeal to me as a gamer. For me, it's all about expression (that is, playing the game the way I want to play it) and discovery (that is, learning new ways to play a game).
My backlog has about... oh, 190 games in them. Most of them are sensation-based (lizard brain tickling RPG mechanic type games, DOTA-likes and such), narrative based (CRPGs), fellowship-based (all my multiplayer-focused games), and submission based (which again is back to that idea of games as being a bit mindless--like any non-competitive Blizzard experience, for instance).
There are very, very few discovery/expression/challenge based games in my backlog, sadly. Games like Dark Souls tend not to synthesize these things, so while discovery and challenge exists, when fighting enemies, it's not as if you're discovering your own personal favorite way of killing them. It's still a lot about pattern memorization and such.
Everything I've seen about Survarium indicates it's got a lot of STALKER DNA in it... it's just also not STALKER.
The OP is gonna hate me for saying this, but I checked what I believe to be his Steam profile and I see that he owns Dark Souls[/I]. I'm actually going to suggest that he play that.
Yes, it is a console game through-and-through, designed around a controller to the point where playing it with a keyboard is difficult without mods. Hell, playing it on PC period without mods is difficult due to the game's developer having never made a PC game before. Bear with me though.
It pretty much does none of the things you're pissed about modern games doing, and does a lot of the things you seem to miss in older single player PC games.
It is quite covert about its deeper mechanics (Japanese games in general used to do this in the past, just like your older PC favorites did), generally expecting you to just figure shit out. It plants you in the middle of the world and doesn't tell you where to go, though an NPC might give you a suggestion if you talk to him. I won't say Dark Souls tries to sweep its "gamey" elements under the rug, but it does make a big effort to write them into the context of the world. More importantly, it makes an effort to immerse you in that world by putting very little in the way of you experiencing it.
The main point is that Dark Souls is every bit built on systemic discovery.
Edit: Goddamnit I didn't see that post before I typed this. I don't know if you've actually tried Dark Souls, but I wouldn't say it's linear or directed about how you deal with problems at all. If you read the wiki, every boss or major enemy has at least several viable strategies that players have discovered over the months and years. There is very rarely a "right way" to deal with enemies in that game. Even after you choose from one of its various classes, you still have the option to level up your character or equip gear in a way that draws them in a completely other direction from that class.
Yes, it is a console game through-and-through, designed around a controller to the point where playing it with a keyboard is difficult without mods. Hell, playing it on PC period without mods is difficult due to the game's developer having never made a PC game before. Bear with me though.
It pretty much does none of the things you're pissed about modern games doing, and does a lot of the things you seem to miss in older single player PC games.
It is quite covert about its deeper mechanics (Japanese games in general used to do this in the past, just like your older PC favorites did), generally expecting you to just figure shit out. It plants you in the middle of the world and doesn't tell you where to go, though an NPC might give you a suggestion if you talk to him. I won't say Dark Souls tries to sweep its "gamey" elements under the rug, but it does make a big effort to write them into the context of the world. More importantly, it makes an effort to immerse you in that world by putting very little in the way of you experiencing it.
The main point is that Dark Souls is every bit built on systemic discovery.
Edit: Goddamnit I didn't see that post before I typed this. I don't know if you've actually tried Dark Souls, but I wouldn't say it's linear or directed about how you deal with problems at all. If you read the wiki, every boss or major enemy has at least several viable strategies that players have discovered over the months and years. There is very rarely a "right way" to deal with enemies in that game. Even after you choose from one of its various classes, you still have the option to level up your character or equip gear in a way that draws them in a completely other direction from that class.
I disagree, you just have to look harder. Play some Kerbal Space Program, X3, Inquisitor, Eador, Path of Exile, FTL, Legend of Grimrock, Book of Unwritten Tales, ArmA 2, Crusader Kings 2, Shogun Total War, Mount and Blade, Age of Decadence, Diaspora, Prison Architect, Europa Universalis IV or X Rebirth.
All of those games appeal to Expression/Discovery/Challenge in many ways, in addition to others.
Yeah the so called 'Immersive Sim' either went the way of the dodo or succumbed to lowest common denominator multiplatform development, but that couldn't have been the only PC style of game you enjoyed, right? There really weren't that many of them developed.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Titles like System Shock 2 were niche even back then. It didn't sell well. Homeworld only sold 500k. Grim Fandango flopped. All of those were stellar SP focused games but they were not prominent in the marketplace.
NOLF and NOLF2 definitely did a fine job of injecting memorable characters and humor into a shooter which does deserve some credit. It was a scripted shooter though. I don't remember there being much discovery or sandbox type encounters. I won't disagree with you on the Battlefield 3 campaign which was one of the worst FPS campaigns I played that year. That game has always been about the multiplayer though.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
Using "console" as a definition for a game not being good or creative enough, is really childish.
Things change because of price and demand.
Things change because of price and demand.
Lasthope106
Member
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I believe every class of weapon in DS has it's own "move set" (it might be actually every weapon). There are a lot of weapons and learning how to use even one weapon effectively can be very rewarding. Sure the first time you approach an enemy you might have to learn the pattern, but once you have the necessary skills, you can start to do really neat things with the mechanics that the game provides. This same thing extends to boss fights.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that DS gives you the ability to create your own personal and unique fighting style. You get tired of it, then you can go and pick a different weapon and start all over again.
edit: Also it seems like you really enjoy games with sandbox mechanics. You should play Just Cause 2 if you haven't already.
Stallion Free
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The first Stalker game has people who literally have 5 or so random items you can chose to find for them. They give no reason for needing them and they slap a timer on the chore as well. I don't know how it can be any gamier or less natural than that.
People see things the way that the want to see them I guess.
Uh. We're getting new games from Tim Schafer, Al Lowe, Roberta Williams, the Space Quest guys, and the others. That was virtually impossible 5 or 6 years ago. We're in gaming renaissance right now.
This is just bunk. Have you played the game at all? If you don't dig it, just say that. That's fine. But don't claim stuff isn't there.
great recommendations, and the bolded is sadly true as it's one of my favourite kind of games. They have always been pretty rare. Hopefully Minecraft sets a trend for more freeform gameplay outside of the Strategy genre, and i dearly hope it makes a comeback in RPG's. I'll gladly take a hit in presentation for a bigger focus on systems, even if they are a bit janky.
trab pu kcip
Member
actually I thought the timer made it even more "realistic", you can't expect people to wait around for you forever
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actually I thought the timer made it even more "realistic", you can't expect people to wait around for you forever
When they give you zero motivation for retrieving the item and all story missions are devoid of timers it just comes off as bizarre.
actually I thought the timer made it even more "realistic", you can't expect people to wait around for you forever
There are quite a few badly designed things in STALKER but i was so immersed in the game while playing it i didn't notice. Definetly one of the best games at "sucking you in".
trab pu kcip
Member
aw I think that's nitpicking now, of course it's not a simulation or something but plays way more realistic than a lot of other games...at least it feels like it had a certain aspiration to do so. especially on a certain difficulty level
can't think of any other currently prominent fps where your weapon jams e.g.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Look, I love Stalker and I can look past it's flaws, I just think people can have an incredibly narrow view about things (such as Stalker vs. FC3).
Far Cry 2 has weapon jamming as do both Fallout 3 and New Vegas.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
See Path of Exile on why you are wrong.
trab pu kcip
Member
oh sorry you're right, totally forgot about fallout & fallout:nw, probably cause I usually try to keep my weapons in a good condition. but let's just say very few games incorporate things like that anymore. while we're at it: one of the reasons why I also appreciate the hardcore mode in fallout:nw so much. just adds a totally new experience
I haven't played it yet. I wasn't able to justify spending money on it, and then a very kind friend gifted it and KOTOR 2 to me. I still plan to beat KOTOR 2 first. Most of the gameplay videos I've seen have expressed opinions like "this is the way to beat X or Y enemy," as if it's the only way or whatevs, so my understanding of the game has been somewhat limited.
It's clear the videos I have seen have not adequately expressed the versatility of Dark Souls.
I have played some of those games. I like some of those games. I am planning to purchase some of the others in the future. I expect to enjoy some of those games.
Of the ones I have played, I"m not sure they quite nail the kind of fun I am looking for.
Games are limited by their control interface.
Controllers are one of the least versatile forms of game control there is.
I don't feel that suggesting a game is limited by its control interface, making it less desirable to me, is particularly childish.
Shadow of Chernobyl? It's been so long since I played it. The latter two, which I've played in the past year, do a great job of communicating that it's just stuff people need in the world. It feels natural for a guy to go "hey man, I need some grenades," or "hey, some rich hunter is coming in and wants us to pick up a critter for him so he doesn't have to be in danger's way."
It's not like people are going "BRING ME FIVE DOG'S TAILS THX!" (though they might have done that; I can't remember)
But those games aren't out yet--we don't even have pictures of them or anything, last I knew. With Star Citizen, Elite, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, etc, we have a lot more transparency that reminds us these games are coming/exist/etc.
Fallout: New Vegas hardcore mode was... too easy for me. D:
I forgot weapons jammed in those games because it was SO easy to repair them.
Red Blaster
Member
reading the OP + the thread creator's long ideological exegeses on why fallout new vegas "doesn't use the first person perspective well" i'm convinced he doesn't actually know what he wants
also stump and stallion free have owned this thread
also stump and stallion free have owned this thread
trab pu kcip
Member
well it's not exactly about easy or hard in this case, you can change the difficulty regardless of hardcore mode, it's more about getting a whole new dynamic into the game. just feels different to be forced to eat, sleep & drink and so on. I really get a lot out of it, especially since I don't boost the survival skill I am really in the need to find food or purified water which adds a nice touch :3
I'm pretty sure arguing that a game doesn't make good use of its perspective well and arguing that a (very different) philosophy of game design is underrepresented in gaming are, in fact, two completely unrelated arguments that in no way contradict each other.
Furthermore, expressing that I want more of one kind of game does not mean that I do not want any other kind of game.
What the hell?
trab pu kcip
Member
haha I don't get why everyone's so upset about this thread, although I don't agree with everyting that's been said I can totally understand the OP
Fudgepuppy
Banned
That's an incredibly closeminded way of looking at it.
If you can't inagine a game being creative without a mouse and a keyboard, I feel sorry for you.
I'd half-agreed with you if your argument was that the console market is much more closed off, but complaining on the gamepads is just sad.
Nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses aside, the landscape back in the 90's was different. These aforementioned genres were prominently listed and exposed at developers events, front covers of magazines, GOTY accolades, publishers' marquee titles. They aren't any longer.
Unfortunately the X-series do not fill the void of a meaningful singleplayer space-sim campaign. Rebirth's promise of a larger focus on character stories might make it different though. Still, thanks for contributing. It's unfortunate that a series like X3 isn't as visible, nor as prominent, as what it might have been 10-15 years ago.
Man, I do sincerely wish that Elite and Star Citizen will rejuvenate the space-sim genre, although I don't have much hope for Koch having the brains to order Volition to commit to a glorious Freespace 3.
I feel like I have to constantly repeat myself. It's not about sales or the marketplace. It's not about success. It's about visiblity, recognition, prominence, exposure, whatever, by the larger gaming industry, marketing and media.
- System Shock 2 wasn't niche in that in many, many magazines (European at least) covered and lauded the game before and after release, it had a large presence on store shelves for a long time, and it was being discussed at industry events. It also received lots of GOTY awards.
- Homeworld was a flagship title by Sierra and even won PC game of the year at IGN and PC Gamer. It resulted in Barking Dog Studios doing a highly anticipated expansion and a later sequel.
- Despite Grim Fandango bombing to hell and back, it still managed to get a lot of awards in its year of release, it was again highly covered by media and marketing, and it influenced much of the industry for good and bad. Useless anecdote incoming: Even my non-gaming friend at the time picked it up thanks to its high visibility.
I still haven't seen a good argument that disproves that my listed genres are no longer as prominent as they used to be. At least you have to agree that they no longer retain their marquee position as they once used to, so I don't know what you're talking about, aside from mod fellatio.
Edit: I don't feel the nostalgia angle holds weight in regards to the OP. He seems to have played a lot of the older games AFTER playing their current gen descendants. I myself didn't play Deus Ex until right before Human Revolution came out, and didn't play System Shock 2 until right before I played BioShock, and I still agree that today's "first person simulation RPGs" are largely simplified versions of their predecessors.
I think that's because they, for the most part, came from basically one "group" of developers and very few studious outside of that. Weren't Ultima Underworld, System Shock, BioShock, and Deus Ex worked on by a lot of the same people? Outside of that nebulous "circle" of people the only other studios that really took their inspiration to heart were Bethesda and Arkane.
I think that's because they, for the most part, came from basically one "group" of developers and very few studious outside of that. Weren't Ultima Underworld, System Shock, BioShock, and Deus Ex worked on by a lot of the same people? Outside of that nebulous "circle" of people the only other studios that really took their inspiration to heart were Bethesda and Arkane.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It relies on assumptions that don't line up well with reality. If the premise was exactly the same as the title no one would have reason to complain.
SaggyMonkey
Member
One of the nice things about PC gaming is that if you feel like everyone else is missing the point, you can make your own game and share it with us.