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[StrongGuy]

I took 3 pills of finasteride several years ago and it changed my life forever.

My hair started falling out much faster, my scalp was itching 24/7, I was losing muscle mass everywhere, I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis and osteoporosis, I was unable to eat anything, I had erectile dysfunction and I had insomnia. It was living hell.

At my worst point, most of my muscles broke down and couldn't support my back very well. There was so much pain everywhere in my body. I couldn't even leave my bed.
Miraculously, my bones stopped deteriorating and my cartilages are regrowing. My doctors told me it was a miracle and they've never seen anyone recover from osteoporosis and osteoarthritis.

I'm now doing better, but I still haven't fully recovered. I honestly don't think I'll ever fully recover.

I'm one of the worst cases of PFS. Does anyone else here have PFS?

 

[Sakura]

3 pills of finasteride? Sorry but I don't buy that fin is what caused your osteo problems.

 

[DESTROYA]

Isn’t that for hair loss ? Did you have a allergic reaction to it because those are strange symptoms to have for this type of medication especially after just 3 pills.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Isn’t that for hair loss ? Did you have a allergic reaction to it because those are strange symptoms to have for this type of medication especially after just 3 pills.

More common side effects
The more common side effects that can occur with finasteride include:

• decreased sex drive
• trouble getting or keeping an erection
• ejaculation disorder
• increase in breast size and tenderness
• skin rash

If these effects are mild, they may disappear within a few days or a couple of weeks. If they’re more severe or don’t disappear, talk to your doctor or pharmacist.

Serious side effects
Call your doctor right away if you have serious side effects. Call 911 if your symptoms feel life-threatening or if you think you’re having a medical emergency. Serious side effects and their symptoms can include the following:

• swelling of your lips, tongue, throat, or face
• depression
• lumps or pain in your breasts
• nipple discharge

Holy shit man, I'll just shave my head like Rogan once my hair starts falling.

 

[haxan7]

I stopped using Rogaine a couple years ago. I just accept my hair loss.

 

[StrongGuy]

3 pills of finasteride? Sorry but I don't buy that fin is what caused your osteo problems.

Most people with PFS get it after only a few doses. Check out the member stories at propeciahelp.
Researchers at the PFS Foundation believe that PFS is caused by genes, because 2 brothers who started finasteride at the same time both developed symptoms at the same exact time.

Fin is what definitely caused my osteo problems. The effects were immediate and there is no other explanation. That is also why I recovered from osteo, because the cause of my osteo problems was not due to normal circumstances. If I had to guess, it's because my androgen receptors got upregulated too much. Finasteride has been shown to upregulate androgen receptor density, which has an inverse-U effect with testosterone levels. Past a certain density point, testosterone destroys your body.

 

[StrongGuy]

Isn’t that for hair loss ? Did you have a allergic reaction to it because those are strange symptoms to have for this type of medication especially after just 3 pills.

Yes, it is for hair loss. I doubt it's an allergic reaction. Some of the symptoms are still there.

It is hard to believe, but it's the truth. THe vast majority of people who have PFS only took 1 or a few pills. It has something to do with your genes.

 

[StrongGuy]

More common side effects
The more common side effects that can occur with finasteride include:

• decreased sex drive
• trouble getting or keeping an erection
• ejaculation disorder
• increase in breast size and tenderness
• skin rash

If these effects are mild, they may disappear within a few days or a couple of weeks. If they’re more severe or don’t disappear, talk to your doctor or pharmacist.

Serious side effects
Call your doctor right away if you have serious side effects. Call 911 if your symptoms feel life-threatening or if you think you’re having a medical emergency. Serious side effects and their symptoms can include the following:

• swelling of your lips, tongue, throat, or face
• depression
• lumps or pain in your breasts
• nipple discharge

Holy shit man, I'll just shave my head like Rogan once my hair starts falling.

LOL... Trust me, those are the milder symptoms, even the ones they label as "serious".
The actual serious sides are when you're in pain 24/7, losing height, and completely bed-bound.

 

[nbcjr]

Rogaine is minoxidil, not finasteride.

 

[StrongGuy]

Rogaine is minoxidil, not finasteride.

Rogaine is actually a lighter 5AR inhibitor, so there are people who took Rogaine who developed PFS, though it's far rarer than finasteride-induced PFS.

 

[M1chl]

I will gladly donate some of my hair on head, because I have normal hair after liver transplant, now I have too much of them. It's bullshit, especially during pandemic and high heat...

 

[StrongGuy]

I will gladly donate some of my hair on head, because I have normal hair after liver transplant, now I have too much of them. It's bullshit, especially during pandemic and high heat...

I wish you the best. I remember a time when my hair was my biggest concern.
The sad part is that if I just did nothing, I'd probably still have almost a full head of hair. I wasn't even thinning that much. Fin destroyed my hair in 3 months. I was losing thousands of hair every day (I actually counted).

 

[M1chl]

I wish you the best. I remember a time when my hair was my biggest concern.
The sad part is that if I just did nothing, I'd probably still have almost a full head of hair. I wasn't even thinning that much. Fin destroyed my hair in 3 months. I was losing thousands of hair every day (I actually counted).

I hope you recover as much as possible, it sounds like what I experienced post-transplant, but that all vanished and I recovered from this in 1 month.

 

[StrongGuy]

I hope you recover as much as possible, it sounds like what I experienced post-transplant, but that all vanished and I recovered from this in 1 month.

Thanks, man.

To anyone with hairloss reading this, avoid finasteride. It's not worth it.
The side effect rate is grossly understated, and the stated side effects don't capture the most debilitating sides you can get.
That .3% side effect rate only looks at people who completed the 5-year testing period, which is completely deceptive (As admitted by Merck's own employee in court), since people who get sides and drop-out aren't counted.

 

[M1chl]

Thanks, man.

To anyone with hairloss reading this, avoid finasteride. It's not worth it.
The side effect rate is grossly understated, and the stated side effects don't capture the most debilitating sides you can get.
That .3% side effect rate only looks at people who completed the 5-year trial period, which is completely deceptive, since people who get sides and drop-out aren't counted.

Not sure if I am getting this right, but all of this, just because of some cure for hair loss?

 

[StrongGuy]

Not sure if I am getting this right, but all of this, just because of some cure for hair loss?

Yes. At that time, I was still young and sleeping with as many girls was still my #1 priority.
Of course, now I don't care about sleeping around. I still have lower libido than pre-fin.

 

[M1chl]

Yes. At that time, I was still young and sleeping with as many girls was still my #1 priority.
Of course, now I don't care about sleeping around. I still have lower libido than pre-fin.

This broke more than one man, including me (even if that's not really in the text, but you cannot write all of that on the internet).

PSA: Don't drink alcohol too much. Liver transplant experience. NeoGAF special edition.

Prequel: So.... I've been planning to write this in here for some time, but let's say it's not that easy to talk about that. I've been preparing this in my head, how to write something for this wonderfull community, which imrpoved my mental state a lot. I was abstinent, till my 22 years old. I...

www.neogaf.com

Men have really great ability to self-destroy.

 

[Sakura]

Most people with PFS get it after only a few doses. Check out the member stories at propeciahelp.
Researchers at the PFS Foundation believe that PFS is caused by genes, because 2 brothers who started finasteride at the same time both developed symptoms at the same exact time.

Fin is what definitely caused my osteo problems. The effects were immediate and there is no other explanation. That is also why I recovered from osteo, because the cause of my osteo problems was not due to normal circumstances. If I had to guess, it's because my androgen receptors got upregulated too much. Finasteride has been shown to upregulate androgen receptor density, which has an inverse-U effect with testosterone levels. Past a certain density point, testosterone destroys your body.

Yeah I know how fin works, I've taken it myself (currently on duta). While it's true fin will increase testosterone because less of it is being converted to DHT, it's a modest amount and still well within normal limits. Furthermore fin has a short half life, just three pills and your levels would've been back to normal pretty fast, as shown in any study on the drug.
Fin is not definitely what caused your osteo problems. I've read numerous studies on fin, including lots not done by companies selling it, and while yes there are side effects like erectile dysfunction (which in studies at least seem to almost always resolve after discontinuing), I have never heard of it causing osteo issues, nor do I even see how that would be logically possible.
I'm sorry to hear about your problems man, but most of the people I've talked to and the stories I've heard about on propeciahelp seem to be people who were already somewhat unstable before hand (not entirely surprising as balding, especially premature balding can cause depression in men), and I have a hard time taking their claims that all their medical problems are caused by 1 or 2 pills seriously, especially when there isn't any hard science to back it up.

 

[Richard Packer]

How's your penis these days op?

 

[StrongGuy]

Yeah I know how fin works, I've taken it myself (currently on duta). While it's true fin will increase testosterone because less of it is being converted to DHT, it's a modest amount and still well within normal limits. Furthermore fin has a short half life, just three pills and your levels would've been back to normal pretty fast, as shown in any study on the drug.

I am not talking about testosterone. I'm talking about androgen receptors, which get overly expressed.

A group of Italian researchers gave finasteride to rats and noticed that the number of androgen receptors in their brains went up. Moreover, the effects persisted long after the drug had been discontinued… [T]hey then called in men with PFS, took skin from the penis and found that the density of androgen receptors in men with PFS was about twice that of those without. Now, remember the idea of the testosterone bell curve and damping effects (little testosterone, little growth, more testosterone, more growth, even more testosterone, reduced growth)? I think this is what we are seeing here. With a greater concentration of receptors, the organ becomes more sensitive to testosterone and at a certain point, paradoxically, that sensitivity may shut down.

— Charles J. Ryan, M.D., Distinguished Professor of Clinical Medicine and Urology at the University of California, San Francisco

Fin is not definitely what caused your osteo problems. I've read numerous studies on fin, including lots not done by companies selling it, and while yes there are side effects like erectile dysfunction (which in studies at least seem to almost always resolve after discontinuing), I have never heard of it causing osteo issues, nor do I even see how that would be logically possible.

It is a rare condition, but there are many people on propeciahelp who developed osteoarthritis and osteoporosis.
It is logically possible, because finasteride mutates your androgen receptors, and without proper utilization of testosterone due to loss of sensitivity, your bones and cartilages break down. Why is it so hard for you to admit that for some people, this could be possible? Just because it's uncommon doesn't mean it's impossible. There is already proof that men with PFS have twice the androgen receptor density as men without PFS. Just people most men don't have an androgen receptor upregulation from fin doesn't mean that all men don't get that upregulation.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems man, but most of the people I've talked to and the stories I've heard about on propeciahelp seem to be people who were already somewhat unstable before hand (not entirely surprising as balding, especially premature balding can cause depression in men), and I have a hard time taking their claims that all their medical problems are caused by 1 or 2 pills seriously, especially when there isn't any hard science to back it up.

The problem with your position is that you assume you understand all the interactions that the drug does on your body and that it's settled science, when it's not. No one knows everything about this drug. It was only recently discovered that this drug also blocks the 5AR3 enzyme, not just 5AR2.
I also doubted the stories on propeciahelp until I got PFS.
It doesn't hurt to be a little more open-minded that everyone's body is different and some people could respond badly to the drug.

 

[StrongGuy]

How's your penis these days op?

Pretty good. I can still get and maintain erections pretty easily.

 

[Richard Packer]

Pretty good. I can still get and maintain erections pretty easily.

Sick.

 

[Sakura]

I am not talking about testosterone. I'm talking about androgen receptors, which get overly expressed.

I'm going to need to see the study, not a quote from a book. Were these people who had taken 3 pills or people who had been on fin for years? Huge difference. Furthermore, this is in regards to erectile dysfunction, which I know is a possible side effect.

The problem with your position is that you assume you understand all the interactions that the drug does on your body and that it's settled science, when it's not. No one knows everything about this drug. It was only recently discovered that this drug also blocks the 5AR3 enzyme, not just 5AR2.
I also doubted the stories on propeciahelp until I got PFS.
It doesn't hurt to be a little more open-minded that everyone's body is different and some people could respond badly to the drug.

I don't assume to understand all the interactions. The problem with your position is that you assume any kind of ailment occurring after taking the drug, is caused by the drug and nothing else.
Millions of people take these drugs. A handful of people report serious side effects like osteo. What is more likely? That after just 3 pills of an androgen inhibitor with a half-life of 6 hours they got osteoporosis? Or that they got osteoporosis unrelated to the drug? I take the more likely stance.
Like I said, I'm sorry about your situation, and I'm sorry for attacking you. But I've seen people claim their bone structure in their face was changed after a couple pills (when they literally look the same), and I've seen people claim their health issues, mental or otherwise, are caused by the drug when they admit to also using hard recreational drugs, and it gets annoying. It's almost like a religious fervor with these people.

 

[PSYGN]

Pretty good. I can still get and maintain erections pretty easily.

StrongGuy stays strong.

 

[StrongGuy]

I'm going to need to see the study, not a quote from a book. Were these people who had taken 3 pills or people who had been on fin for years? Huge difference. Furthermore, this is in regards to erectile dysfunction, which I know is a possible side effect.

Here is the study: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0100237

Our findings revealed that modulation of local AR levels might be implicated in long-term side effects of finasteride use. This provides the first evidence of a molecular objective difference between patients with long-term adverse sexual effects after finasteride use versus drug untreated healthy controls in certain tissues.

You really think that androgen receptor density upregulation would be limited to only the genitals when the drug lowers DHT throughout your body? That's a huge claim and I believe the burden of proof for that claim is on you.

I don't assume to understand all the interactions. The problem with your position is that you assume any kind of ailment occurring after taking the drug, is caused by the drug and nothing else.
Millions of people take these drugs. A handful of people report serious side effects like osteo. What is more likely? That after just 3 pills of an androgen inhibitor with a half-life of 6 hours they got osteoporosis? Or that they got osteoporosis unrelated to the drug? I take the more likely stance.
Like I said, I'm sorry about your situation, and I'm sorry for attacking you. But I've seen people claim their bone structure in their face was changed after a couple pills (when they literally look the same), and I've seen people claim their health issues, mental or otherwise, are caused by the drug when they admit to also using hard recreational drugs, and it gets annoying. It's almost like a religious fervor with these people.

The problem with your argument is that you offer no other explanations for why osteo problems occur. Just that "it must be something else". Well, what is that "something else"?
Why would an otherwise healthy 20-year-old male develop osteoporosis and osteoarthrisis? Furthermore, why is it that many people with PFS recover from osteoporosis and osteoarthritis when these conditions are supposed to be uncurable? Aside from a few unlucky folks, we all follow the same pattern of muscles, bones and cartilage breaking down and then sudden recovery after a few months or years. It heavily implies that our osteo conditions aren't like others with osteo problems and the only common element is that we all took finasteride.

Another ding on your argument is that it's logically possible that the drug could lead to your bones and muscles breaking down via androgen desensitization.
So we have a possible *logical* cause via finasteride, but in your mind, it definitely must be something else.

Also, androgens are also important for generating neurosteroids, so it's again, logically possible for finasteride to cause mental problems.

Finally, you're being disingenuous when bringing up the half-life of the drug, and you know it. The AR upregulation from the drug could last years and even for the rest of your life. It took 5 years for my AR density to come down. My muscles started growing again, my bones stopped degenerating, and my cartilages started growing. My testosterone levels were about the same throughout the 5 years.

 

[teezzy]

More common side effects
The more common side effects that can occur with finasteride include:

• decreased sex drive
• trouble getting or keeping an erection
• ejaculation disorder
• increase in breast size and tenderness
• skin rash

If these effects are mild, they may disappear within a few days or a couple of weeks. If they’re more severe or don’t disappear, talk to your doctor or pharmacist.

Serious side effects
Call your doctor right away if you have serious side effects. Call 911 if your symptoms feel life-threatening or if you think you’re having a medical emergency. Serious side effects and their symptoms can include the following:

• swelling of your lips, tongue, throat, or face
• depression
• lumps or pain in your breasts
• nipple discharge

Holy shit man, I'll just shave my head like Rogan once my hair starts falling.

Balding is often caused by an excess of testosterone.

Look at those side effects. Sounds like this crap turns you into a bitch. Lmao.

Sorry OP. Just shave your head like I did. Jesus Christ. I still fuck dude.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

I still fuck dude.

does dude appreciative you though?

 

[teezzy]

does dude appreciative you though?

Your father leaves junior mints on my pillow before he leaves for work, yes.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Your father leaves junior mints on my pillow before he leaves for work, yes.

I'm your father though?

 

[StrongGuy]

Balding is often caused by an excess of testosterone.

Look at those side effects. Sounds like this crap turns you into a bitch. Lmao.

Sorry OP. Just shave your head like I did. Jesus Christ. I still fuck dude.

I think it has more to do with your sensitivity to androgens via your receptors.

My friend also took 1 pill of finasteride and got some pretty bad sides, but the drug desensitized his hair follicle's reaction to testosterone and dht. So now, he doesn't take the drug, but he has more hair now than ever before. He said the only con is that he can't seem to build muscle as well as before, since the androgen desensitization also occurred elsewhere in his body, but he's content with the results. The drug literally cured his baldness. He also says he no longer gets that MPB scalp itch anymore.
It's actually pretty amazing, but my friend was extremely lucky. When most people get desensitized to androgens, the desensitization is on the more extreme end and they lose almost all effects of androgens.

Also, he lost 1 inch in height, IIRC, so he's under 6' now. He still prefers the hair.

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm not a doctor or a pharmacist, but from what I understand about the human body and finasteride, the connection between a mere 3 pills and your symptoms seems unlikely. Anecdotal evidence doesn't help either because personally I know several people who have used it for years and are completely normal.

Did the doctors diagnose your condition as being caused by finasteride or is that a self diagnosis?

 

[StrongGuy]

I'm not a doctor or a pharmacist, but from what I understand about the human body and finasteride, the connection between a mere 3 pills and your symptoms seems unlikely. Anecdotal evidence doesn't help either because personally I know several people who have used it for years and are completely normal.

Did the doctors diagnose your condition as being caused by finasteride or is that a self diagnosis?

Endocrine disrupters like finasteride can cause persistent side effects even after only a few doses. The key is how your body responds to the drop in androgens. In some people, AR get massively overexpressed as shown in the studies above.
Again, it's not about how long you take the drug. The issue is how your body decides to respond to the hormone disruption. Unfortunately, some guys' bodies, like mine, decide to go into overdrive and massively upregulate AR to compensate for lower DHT and then the body refuses to downregulate receptor density.
There are also a few people who get high AR density, but it happens slowly over time, so they won't get any symptoms until 15+ years. A propeciahelp user by the name of LazarusRy took finasteride for 15 years until he got AR issues. Now he's suffering from huge health issues, because he didn't connect his problems with finasteride for years and continued taking the drug.

Yes, my doctor said my symptoms are likely due to finasteride, as my symptoms are many and body-wide, which indicates hormonal issues. The acne all over my face and scalp was a dead give-away of hormonal imbalance. He also stated there's nothing he can do about it. He has seen this condition several times already.

 

[MaestroMike]

Osteoporosis and Osteopenia

The best strategy to prevent osteoporosis and osteopenia is a combined approach of maximizing nutrients and exercising to help keep bones strong.

www.drfuhrman.com

Osteoarthritis

A Nutritarian lifestyle, including staying fit and at a healthy, normal weight, is an important strategy in the prevention of osteoarthritis.

www.drfuhrman.com

 

[SpartanN92]

Reset Era users have all the same symptoms but it’s from TDS.

 

[StrongGuy]

Osteoporosis and Osteopenia

The best strategy to prevent osteoporosis and osteopenia is a combined approach of maximizing nutrients and exercising to help keep bones strong.

www.drfuhrman.com

Osteoarthritis

A Nutritarian lifestyle, including staying fit and at a healthy, normal weight, is an important strategy in the prevention of osteoarthritis.

www.drfuhrman.com

PFS osteoporosis and osteoarthritis are different. Many PFS people report connective tissue breakdown after taking vitamin D.
Vitamin K also causes joint issues for us.

 

[MaestroMike]

PFS osteoporosis and osteoarthritis are different. Many PFS people report connective tissue breakdown after taking vitamin D.
Vitamin K also causes joint issues for us.

you still gotta eat a ton of greens with some fats (from whole foods) & fruits on the reg no matter what and get sun/vitamin D on the reg.

 

[StrongGuy]

you still gotta eat a ton of greens with some fats (from whole foods) & fruits on the reg no matter what and get sun/vitamin D on the reg.

Actually, the only known cure for finasteride-induced osteo problems is time. The cause is likely due to androgen desensitization, and so hopefully your body can reverse the process over time.

 

[MaestroMike]

Actually, the only known cure for finasteride-induced osteo problems is time. The cause is likely due to androgen desensitization, and so hopefully your body can reverse the process over time.

Whats ur diet like?

 

[nbcjr]

Do you recomend minoxidil?

 

[V4skunk]

Remember to take all the pills and vaccinations like good sheeps!

 

[ipukespiders]

I never heard of this before, but what a wild outcome.

 

[StrongGuy]

Whats ur diet like?

Very healthy. No junk food or fast food.
Broccoli, bell peppers, lettuce, chicken breast, steak, salmon, eggs, sweet potatoes, a small amount of brown rice, and a few more things. I've had an extremely strict diet for the past 8 years.

Do you recomend minoxidil?

It works for most people. I'm not denying that finasteride and minoxidil does work for most people, and most people don't get permanent symptoms, but there is always a risk. There are people who got PFS from minoxidil, as it was recently found that minoxidil acts as a 5AR inhibitor, similar to fin.

 

[StrongGuy]

I never heard of this before, but what a wild outcome.

Most people haven't, even most doctors. It is a very rare condition that affects a small number of people. When you try to alter your hormones, your body tries to fight back to preserve homeostasis. For most people who take fin, that means a slight uptick in androgen receptors. It's not enough to cause any harm to the body.
There are, unfortunately, people like me whose bodies go into overdrive and massively overproduce androgen receptors and reduce androgen sensitivity. This is when physical problems such as osteoporosis, osteoarthritis, muscle loss, height loss, and other nightmarish symptoms occur.

Just remember that everyone is different, and the way your body sensitizes/desensitizes androgen receptors may differ depending on the tissue. My friend, for example, only saw a slight desensitization in his muscles but a large desensitization in his scalp. Therefore, he lost a bit of muscles, but he now has a full set of hair and no scalp itch. The drug didn't just treat his hairloss; it literally cured it.
There are many different combinations. For some people, there was a massive desensitization everywhere in the body, so the drug also cured their hairloss, but they have muscle and bone degeneration.

 

[Elcid]

Fuck dude, that shit sucks. Making me glad I never tried it. I'm just rocking my bald spot lol

 

[triplestation]

what in tarnation

 

[Dr_Salt]

You can´t get PFS if you only took 3 pills. This is nocebo to the next level.

 

[StrongGuy]

You can´t get PFS if you only took 3 pills. This is nocebo to the next level.

Wrong. PFS is based on your genes and most people with persistent sides only took 1 or a few doses. This is why the 1 year side effect rate is at 4% while the 5-year side effect rate is at .3%. The probability of you getting PFS/sides does NOT scale with duration of the drug intake. If your body reacts adversely from the drug, you'll get it very shortly after taking it, similar to lactose intolerant people getting explosive diarrhea after ingesting only a bit of milk. It's the same with finasteride. If your genes make you susceptible to PFS, you will get it after 1 or a few doses.

This is why there are only a few members such as LazarusRy who has taken the drug from years while most member stories deal with people taking it after a few days/weeks.

I didn't imagine having 100x more zits on my face and scalp 1 day after taking fin.
The AR density upregulation happen immediately.

 

[Dr_Salt]

Wrong. PFS is based on your genes and most people with persistent sides only took 1 or a few doses. This is why the 1 year side effect rate is at 4% while the 5-year side effect rate is at .3%. If your body reacts adversely from the drug, you'll get it very shortly after taking it.

I didn't imagine having 100x more zits on my face and scalp 1 day after taking fin.
The AR density upregulation happen immediately.

About 3/4 people who are on fin actually improve on their acne since DHT makes you produce more sebum. Seems to me you have been lurking around propeciahelp for too long and developed a pretty severe nocebo effect. Having long term PFS after 3 pills is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Durask]

Well, when you get old and your prostate becomes the size of a grapefruit, it will be either finasteride or the roto-rooter.
Something to look forward to I guess.

 

[MaestroMike]

are you gonna get a hair transplant like musk?