I'd say all the other factors you mentioned have a much greater importance regarding this issue, since gaming alone doesn't seem to be correlated with sexist attitudes.
It would certainly help though.
I'd say all the other factors you mentioned have a much greater importance regarding this issue, since gaming alone doesn't seem to be correlated with sexist attitudes.
Yeah, not trying to deny that.It would certainly help though.
But... it IS coming naturally.
Seriously, look at the current indie lineup on Steam and GOG. And compare it with the games on offer 5 years ago.
This change is happening, simply because the people who wanted to see it happen most are now making it happen by making the games they always wanted to see.
And those games are catching on. Because people want this diversity. They don't want games to be a boys' club anymore.
Fighting it in the manner displayed here in this topic will not make it happen any quicker or slower. If you want it to happen faster... then go make a game of your own. That's what other people are doing, and it's totally working. And it's really the one and only way it's going to continue happening, IMHO -- lip service won't make any difference, it's programming and creative design that's going to oust the old and replace it with something newer and better.
...Seriously, check out Steam and GOG. It's impossible to miss.
-Tom
This just comes off silly to me, there are plenty of people who end up horrible misogynists while having completely "normal" school lives or not playing video games. Certainly people thought this way before video games and they'll probably think this way after whatever critical amount of female representation you think will solve it. Video game pandering to me is almost white noise vs. seeing a football start beat his girlfriend to almost no social, legal, or league responses.Having so very little female representation in video games, combined with the stigma against video game, turning nerds vindictive against girls that wouldn't go out with them because they were weird, had poor hygeine, and were super nerdy and awkward, plus add in the fact that the only friends these guys have also have those same attitudes which reinforces them, leads to a lot of sexism.
But unfortunately, the West has a preconceived notion and disgust for Idol Culture.
Yeah, the Zelda costume and Zero Suit outfit.. awful, just awful, its why I won't buy Hyrule Warriors, or Smash Bros.
/s?
well... Zelda costume is kinda weird, Zero Suit is sad but canon... and Smash is fanservice by itself. Didn't like this too, but having teens running around in lingerie in a suvival horror is another level.
Yes. I just facepalm went people assume more sexualized men is a decent solution instead of a better depiction of female. It often feels like we are in some bargaining stage where we will trade more sexualization of men if you'll just stop talking about our fanservice and sexualized female designs.
There's ways to fight it though in a civil manner versus personal crass attacks, this topic has been civil recently with Tom, along with Crossing posting some level rebuttals. But Shanny and Jumplion speak with disrespect and snark on the matter. In fact, I still haven't see Shanny rebuttal to Tom's reply about Idol Culture, but instead he picks at something else.
But what's the idea just pause fan service until we get to some acceptable gender split in development, writing, and the board room and come around creating games with fan servicing that has equally heterosexual/homosexual and equally male/female audiences? Also I guess we wait for it to happen in Japan? I mean, I and a lot other people are not going to stop enjoying the pandering because of the inequity in pandering, the same way conflict in the middle east doesn't make me stop putting gas in my car.
I think the whole idea of being 'against' fan service just leads to a lot of nit picking as well. Like earlier some Overwatch art got criticized for being escher and too boob socky? I honestly couldn't see it at all, I thought the stuff looked fine, and I felt like because it looked fine people were working extra hard to find an issue with it. It just seemed like some throwing shit to see what sticks.
I think games are getting better, but I don't think it's going to happen fast or soon and I'm just not going to start swearing off certain foreign games over it. Actually I really doubt my purchasing habits are driving any Japanese trends. Also for reference here is my FFXIV character, which is actually a really good game I think in regards to MMO gear for male/female
Me in the back of course.
Actually I would say there is a pretty big divide between a gender revolution in Japan and the posts on this forum.
I'd say all the other factors you mentioned have a much greater importance regarding this issue, since gaming alone doesn't seem to be correlated with sexist attitudes.
They are referring to those things having been censored in the Western release, meaning you don't have teens running around in lingerie in a survival horror game.
...I hesitated whether or not to post this, but decided in the end that I probably should. So forgive me for jumping back in, but I feel this needs to be said.
You feel this view marginalizes a large group of people, and that's OK -- you're entitled to that opinion. But I actually hold this opinion for somewhat personal reasons, at least regarding the E3 badge argument.
Back in 2001-2003, I taught at two Japanese junior high schools through the JET Programme, and got to know quite a few of the students while I was there. And there were a sizable number of them who dreamed of becoming pop idols -- male students as well, though admittedly mostly female. They would have pictures with them of the pop idols they looked up to most, and while some were more modest (Mini Moni and the like), there were a few with outfits that I'd peg as distinctly similar to Rise's.
The girls all felt these outfits were incredibly cute, and I recall some mentioning that they were even working on making costumes of their own based on the ones they were seeing. They weren't doing this for the sake of attracting boys, but because they truly desired to wear similar outfits, and look adorable in them, and perform on stage in front of crowds, and become famous. For them, that was an actual dream -- something they were working toward, honing their vocal talents and dance choreography alike after school every single day.
Now, you may say that this dream is the result of a society that encourages women to objectify themselves for fame and glory, and that's fair enough. But actually being there, and seeing the spark in these girls' eyes... I can honestly say that it was making them happy. They were putting tremendous effort into attaining the closest thing to pop idol status they possibly could -- more effort than they put into their schoolwork, honestly -- and the passion they had for this goal was absolutely undeniable.
So when I hear someone say that Rise's outfit on that E3 badge is objectifying, or shows too much skin, or is too sexualized for the character... I can't help but think back to those girls, and imagine you telling THEM that. And if you did... I think they'd be absolutely crushed. They weren't even aware of objectification, or sexualization, or anything of that nature -- they just wanted to look cute, dance in sync with one another, sing bubbly songs, and have fun. Not for anyone else's sake, but for their own.
I feel that when people speak out against this kind of thing, it's like telling these girls that they're wrong for pursuing this particular dream -- that they put their eggs in the wrong basket and should reconsider all their life choices.
In short... I actually feel that public disgust for things like this is, in its own way, marginalizing the hopes and dreams of these girls. It's telling them, "There is only one way a girl should conduct herself, and this is not it." And that's not something you should ever tell a kid -- especially when their dreams are giving them something to be passionate about.
To me, it's kind of like when people made fun of me in high school for playing video games too much.
I just think it's important to keep an open mind, and to understand that while Western culture teaches us that outfits like this are sexual and "wrong," Eastern culture embraces them not for objectification, but for empowerment. It's "girly," sure... but it's something that a lot of girls in Japan really look up to and aspire to emulate, and I genuinely don't think that's wrong. Anything that can bring so many girls so much joy and camaraderie isn't something I can rightfully condemn.
...So yeah, I doubt this will change anyone's mind, but I felt it was something worth sharing, to give a different perspective on things -- and maybe help you understand where I'm coming from a little, if nothing else.
Sorry for the long response!
-Tom
Then his/her post makes no sense. I thought he is talking about costumes in Hyrule Warriors and Smash.
...I hesitated whether or not to post this, but decided in the end that I probably should. So forgive me for jumping back in, but I feel this needs to be said.
You feel this view marginalizes a large group of people, and that's OK -- you're entitled to that opinion. But I actually hold this opinion for somewhat personal reasons, at least regarding the E3 badge argument.
Back in 2001-2003, I taught at two Japanese junior high schools through the JET Programme, and got to know quite a few of the students while I was there. And there were a sizable number of them who dreamed of becoming pop idols -- male students as well, though admittedly mostly female. They would have pictures with them of the pop idols they looked up to most, and while some were more modest (Mini Moni and the like), there were a few with outfits that I'd peg as distinctly similar to Rise's.
The girls all felt these outfits were incredibly cute, and I recall some mentioning that they were even working on making costumes of their own based on the ones they were seeing. They weren't doing this for the sake of attracting boys, but because they truly desired to wear similar outfits, and look adorable in them, and perform on stage in front of crowds, and become famous. For them, that was an actual dream -- something they were working toward, honing their vocal talents and dance choreography alike after school every single day.
Now, you may say that this dream is the result of a society that encourages women to objectify themselves for fame and glory, and that's fair enough. But actually being there, and seeing the spark in these girls' eyes... I can honestly say that it was making them happy. They were putting tremendous effort into attaining the closest thing to pop idol status they possibly could -- more effort than they put into their schoolwork, honestly -- and the passion they had for this goal was absolutely undeniable.
So when I hear someone say that Rise's outfit on that E3 badge is objectifying, or shows too much skin, or is too sexualized for the character... I can't help but think back to those girls, and imagine you telling THEM that. And if you did... I think they'd be absolutely crushed. They weren't even aware of objectification, or sexualization, or anything of that nature -- they just wanted to look cute, dance in sync with one another, sing bubbly songs, and have fun. Not for anyone else's sake, but for their own.
I feel that when people speak out against this kind of thing, it's like telling these girls that they're wrong for pursuing this particular dream -- that they put their eggs in the wrong basket and should reconsider all their life choices.
In short... I actually feel that public disgust for things like this is, in its own way, marginalizing the hopes and dreams of these girls. It's telling them, "There is only one way a girl should conduct herself, and this is not it." And that's not something you should ever tell a kid -- especially when their dreams are giving them something to be passionate about.
To me, it's kind of like when people made fun of me in high school for playing video games too much.
I just think it's important to keep an open mind, and to understand that while Western culture teaches us that outfits like this are sexual and "wrong," Eastern culture embraces them not for objectification, but for empowerment. It's "girly," sure... but it's something that a lot of girls in Japan really look up to and aspire to emulate, and I genuinely don't think that's wrong. Anything that can bring so many girls so much joy and camaraderie isn't something I can rightfully condemn.
...So yeah, I doubt this will change anyone's mind, but I felt it was something worth sharing, to give a different perspective on things -- and maybe help you understand where I'm coming from a little, if nothing else.
Sorry for the long response!
-Tom
amen...I hesitated whether or not to post this, but decided in the end that I probably should. So forgive me for jumping back in, but I feel this needs to be said.
You feel this view marginalizes a large group of people, and that's OK -- you're entitled to that opinion. But I actually hold this opinion for somewhat personal reasons, at least regarding the E3 badge argument.
Back in 2001-2003, I taught at two Japanese junior high schools through the JET Programme, and got to know quite a few of the students while I was there. And there were a sizable number of them who dreamed of becoming pop idols -- male students as well, though admittedly mostly female. They would have pictures with them of the pop idols they looked up to most, and while some were more modest (Mini Moni and the like), there were a few with outfits that I'd peg as distinctly similar to Rise's.
The girls all felt these outfits were incredibly cute, and I recall some mentioning that they were even working on making costumes of their own based on the ones they were seeing. They weren't doing this for the sake of attracting boys, but because they truly desired to wear similar outfits, and look adorable in them, and perform on stage in front of crowds, and become famous. For them, that was an actual dream -- something they were working toward, honing their vocal talents and dance choreography alike after school every single day.
Now, you may say that this dream is the result of a society that encourages women to objectify themselves for fame and glory, and that's fair enough. But actually being there, and seeing the spark in these girls' eyes... I can honestly say that it was making them happy. They were putting tremendous effort into attaining the closest thing to pop idol status they possibly could -- more effort than they put into their schoolwork, honestly -- and the passion they had for this goal was absolutely undeniable.
So when I hear someone say that Rise's outfit on that E3 badge is objectifying, or shows too much skin, or is too sexualized for the character... I can't help but think back to those girls, and imagine you telling THEM that. And if you did... I think they'd be absolutely crushed. They weren't even aware of objectification, or sexualization, or anything of that nature -- they just wanted to look cute, dance in sync with one another, sing bubbly songs, and have fun. Not for anyone else's sake, but for their own.
I feel that when people speak out against this kind of thing, it's like telling these girls that they're wrong for pursuing this particular dream -- that they put their eggs in the wrong basket and should reconsider all their life choices.
In short... I actually feel that public disgust for things like this is, in its own way, marginalizing the hopes and dreams of these girls. It's telling them, "There is only one way a girl should conduct herself, and this is not it." And that's not something you should ever tell a kid -- especially when their dreams are giving them something to be passionate about.
To me, it's kind of like when people made fun of me in high school for playing video games too much.
I just think it's important to keep an open mind, and to understand that while Western culture teaches us that outfits like this are sexual and "wrong," Eastern culture embraces them not for objectification, but for empowerment. It's "girly," sure... but it's something that a lot of girls in Japan really look up to and aspire to emulate, and I genuinely don't think that's wrong. Anything that can bring so many girls so much joy and camaraderie isn't something I can rightfully condemn.
...So yeah, I doubt this will change anyone's mind, but I felt it was something worth sharing, to give a different perspective on things -- and maybe help you understand where I'm coming from a little, if nothing else.
Sorry for the long response!
-Tom
Well my main issue was on the really inaccurate escher complaints, I guess I made a mistake in mentioning boob socks because you primarily focused on that and accidentally disregarded what I was really getting at. People's complaints were the same escher go-to's which have morphed from earnest criticism to something that people will throw out any time someone isn't standing with their arms at their side.When people complain about these sorts of things, take a moment to really think about why they're complaining about it. I would like you to stop and think; why didn't you think some of the women in Overwatch didn't have boob socks?
I don't know, did you ever wonder how hard Vulcan Raven's nipples must be? My guess is pretty fucking hard. They're video games, sometimes things will be impractical. Obviously very often women characters are needlessly sexualized, sure, but I don't ignore inappropriate outfits in cold weather, I recognize it. I'm not going to cop to being more of an idiot than I am.How many women have we seen in our media with jackets half-zipped down in a winter environment, yet don't even notice?
Sure? You can dress your character however you want, I don't see how that's a counter argument. You can be as slutty or non-slutty as you want and there is pretty damn close equality in slutty options between genders with the exception of a single rabbit outfit that everyone loses their minds over.As for your MMO example, I see what you mean, but I'm more pessimistic about it. I'd argue that A) MMOs are built around customization,
I'm using the game as an example, not the nation.B) Japan and other eastern nations are't as good about it as you might think (I'd show off links, but laaaaziness),
Except that gear looks the same on men as women generally. The speedo is gender locked but there is a female equivalent, but a lot of the skimpy gear in this game simply doesn't have a gender lock on it (please any ffxiv players I don't want a side argument about the damn bunny outfit). Certainly a reaction to seeing a man dressed skimpily might be humor because of social norms, but these aren't costumes designed for men to make them look ridiculous, they're costumes in the game which look the same on male and female characters, which I think is a big thing given how often plate greaves turn into thigh highs in WoW. Yeah sure I'm dressed up that way for fun, but that doesn't change the fact that I called a f***ot in game for it a long time ago(the guy got a suspension). What people perceive is still the same.C) Most of the time that kind of get up for men is used as a joke (though, hey, having fun with it is all good on its own).
Of course they would. Like if you have a stockings fetish you're going to find stockings sexy, even outside what is meant to be sexual. So of course different things may be sexually appealing to different people, but I like my character looking beefy once in awhile, and while it might be more of a preference of gay men I don't know if "well this fan service doesn't have enough mass appeal" is a hand wave. I don't care what other people think makes a man sexy frankly. I like my character looking beefy it's funny and it's sexy. Most people in these games like their characters to be appealing in some way.Also understand that what you might think would constitute a "sexualized/fanservicy male character" in a game, other people might have other thoughts on that.
You avoid a lot of games because of this? Really?Avoid a lot of potentially great games because they have half naked "1000 year old demons" plastered all over it.
"In short... I actually feel that public disgust for things like this is, in its own way, marginalizing the hopes and dreams of these girls."
Wow. This line of thinking is completely alien to me and I find it ridiculous. God speed, thread.
This articulates some arguments I was going to make very succinctly, thank youRE: differing cultural norms and expression as empowerment:
a) Japan is not America and there's no need to say "well there are places in the world where this is the governing norm". Yeah, okay, and? Japan has quite a lot of weird gender norms, including a sort of pre-1950s view on female workplace participation, pretty restrictive norms on marriageability and spinsterdom, very low female participation in government, weak norms on punishment of public sexual assault, etc.
b) It's possible that an institution can be repressive and restrictive, and people that institution can find it liberating. For example, the niqab as an institution is plainly anti-women, imposed by men, and designed to deny women agency. And yet, in some settings, especially in the west, niqabis find it liberating. This is not mutually contradictory. It's also not mutually contradictory for a feminist to complain about porn as an industry while also recognizing that some porn stars are in full control of their lives and choose to be doing what they are doing. It's also okay to not be able to come to an obvious conclusion. Something like Bayonetta is an example of a sexualized character that has gotten strong negative and positive feedback from people who are generally critics of trashy stuff in games.
c) It's a bit weird that the argument is "A woman could find this liberating" when the person making the argument is a man and the person doing the design is typically a man and the target audience is typically male. I mean, that's not to say that men can't weigh in on gender dynamics or whatever. Its just like... you don't need to construct a hypothetical woman to make the argument for you--we would expect the real ones to weigh in, right?
d) It's a little weird to point out that young girls might like doing something as a defence against the perception that that thing is designed for the entertainment of older men. Girls who compete in child beauty pageants often really enjoy doing it, it doesn't mean we can't criticize their existence in society or the guy in sweatpants and a trenchcoat sitting in the front row of the competition.
It's actually fairly ridiculous because idol culture is awful in Japan and many girls don't ever want to become one because the industry is awful.
d) It's a little weird to point out that young girls might like doing something as a defence against the perception that that thing is designed for the entertainment of older men. Girls who compete in child beauty pageants often really enjoy doing it, it doesn't mean we can't criticize their existence in society or the guy in sweatpants and a trenchcoat sitting in the front row of the competition.
RE: differing cultural norms and expression as empowerment:
a) Japan is not America and there's no need to say "well there are places in the world where this is the governing norm". Yeah, okay, and? Japan has quite a lot of weird gender norms, including a sort of pre-1950s view on female workplace participation, pretty restrictive norms on marriageability and spinsterdom, very low female participation in government, weak norms on punishment of public sexual assault, etc.
b) It's possible that an institution can be repressive and restrictive, and people that institution can find it liberating. For example, the niqab as an institution is plainly anti-women, imposed by men, and designed to deny women agency. And yet, in some settings, especially in the west, niqabis find it liberating. This is not mutually contradictory. It's also not mutually contradictory for a feminist to complain about porn as an industry while also recognizing that some porn stars are in full control of their lives and choose to be doing what they are doing. It's also okay to not be able to come to an obvious conclusion. Something like Bayonetta is an example of a sexualized character that has gotten strong negative and positive feedback from people who are generally critics of trashy stuff in games.
c) It's a bit weird that the argument is "A woman could find this liberating" when the person making the argument is a man and the person doing the design is typically a man and the target audience is typically male. I mean, that's not to say that men can't weigh in on gender dynamics or whatever. Its just like... you don't need to construct a hypothetical woman to make the argument for you--we would expect the real ones to weigh in, right?
d) It's a little weird to point out that young girls might like doing something as a defence against the perception that that thing is designed for the entertainment of older men. Girls who compete in child beauty pageants often really enjoy doing it, it doesn't mean we can't criticize their existence in society or the guy in sweatpants and a trenchcoat sitting in the front row of the competition.
Well my main issue was on the really inaccurate escher complaints, I guess I made a mistake in mentioning boob socks because you primarily focused on that and accidentally disregarded what I was really getting at. People's complaints were the same escher go-to's which have morphed from earnest criticism to something that people will throw out any time someone isn't standing with their arms at their side.
The same thing with boob sock, I don't really think D. Va is that bad frankly, I think people threw out escher and boob sock because they felt a need to critique out of pure knee jerk. I think that's even more true of Tracer. We're in a fan service thread and someone posted Overwatch characters, obviously then can't be good or even okay because nothing was ever good.
I don't know, did you ever wonder how hard Vulcan Raven's nipples must be? My guess is pretty fucking hard. They're video games, sometimes things will be impractical. Obviously very often women characters are needlessly sexualized, sure, but I don't ignore inappropriate outfits in cold weather, I recognize it. I'm not going to cop to being more of an idiot than I am.
... I'm not just fumbling with things beyond my understanding because I'm straight.
You avoid a lot of games because of this? Really?
d) It's a little weird to point out that young girls might like doing something as a defence against the perception that that thing is designed for the entertainment of older men. Girls who compete in child beauty pageants often really enjoy doing it, it doesn't mean we can't criticize their existence in society or the guy in sweatpants and a trenchcoat sitting in the front row of the competition.
It seems like a lot of it is typical show business shit, it's certainly exploitative and I really don't echo that guy's sentiments on it, but is there that much more to this "most awful thing" conclusion on it? It just seems that everyone points to that fucked up head shaving thing and that's it. I guess you have Aya Hirano too. I saw some Vice thing about JK idols, but that's really fringe as far as I know.
It's also important to note the idol industry at its base is NOT designed for old men, but everyone, it just happens to attract them, but not as much as it attracts teenagers, girls and boys alike. The producers certainly aren't setting perverted old men as their target demographic except in extremely rare circumstances.
This is pretty much not true. The idol industry, especially nowadays, is designed exactly to pull in lonely otaku men and creepy older ones. Their merchandising schemes, how they engage the media, the conduct required of the idols, etc are all there to promote them for men with a ton of disposable income. In some cases, there will be appeal across demographics but it's not that common. It just looks common because the magnitude of the groups that reach across demos is extremely significant. But looking at it across all groups, it's really rare.
I used to think that was fanservice, stuff like SSB. But now it means sexual pandering, I hardly ever see it used in the former context.I assume this thread only means sexy fanservice, or fapservice, because stuff like Smash Brothers is awesome, which is a monolith of fanservice. Dream fighting matchups between all your favourite Nintendo characters! We need more of that.
Yup. And when it comes to something called fanservice, it's pretty obvious on which side of the fence it falls, heh.The artistic integrity argument becomes muddied once you consider the reality of how most games are made. Auteurs are quite rare in the game industry. What content is determined by focus groups and marketing, and what is a genuine statement by the artist? It's almost impossible to tell. So you can either say the finished original product is sacred, or you allow for the possibility of changes based on feedback.
Now this is the post that deserves all the accolades. Well put.RE: differing cultural norms and expression as empowerment:
a) Japan is not America and there's no need to say "well there are places in the world where this is the governing norm". Yeah, okay, and? Japan has quite a lot of weird gender norms, including a sort of pre-1950s view on female workplace participation, pretty restrictive norms on marriageability and spinsterdom, very low female participation in government, weak norms on punishment of public sexual assault, etc.
b) It's possible that an institution can be repressive and restrictive, and people that institution can find it liberating. For example, the niqab as an institution is plainly anti-women, imposed by men, and designed to deny women agency. And yet, in some settings, especially in the west, niqabis find it liberating. This is not mutually contradictory. It's also not mutually contradictory for a feminist to complain about porn as an industry while also recognizing that some porn stars are in full control of their lives and choose to be doing what they are doing. It's also okay to not be able to come to an obvious conclusion. Something like Bayonetta is an example of a sexualized character that has gotten strong negative and positive feedback from people who are generally critics of trashy stuff in games.
c) It's a bit weird that the argument is "A woman could find this liberating" when the person making the argument is a man and the person doing the design is typically a man and the target audience is typically male. I mean, that's not to say that men can't weigh in on gender dynamics or whatever. Its just like... you don't need to construct a hypothetical woman to make the argument for you--we would expect the real ones to weigh in, right?
d) It's a little weird to point out that young girls might like doing something as a defence against the perception that that thing is designed for the entertainment of older men. Girls who compete in child beauty pageants often really enjoy doing it, it doesn't mean we can't criticize their existence in society or the guy in sweatpants and a trenchcoat sitting in the front row of the competition.
Is it ridiculously egoistical for women to want to be portrayed evenly without tits and ass hanging out all over the place?
You avoid a lot of games because of this? Really?
I figured Tom's view on the idol situation may be warped given his tendencies but i wouldn't comment on something that i have absolutely no clue of. Shouta's posts clarified things.
Again you're completely disregarding that I was more talking about people making invalid escher complaints, that's what I didn't see, I thought I explicitly stated I regretted saying 'boob sock' but here we still are. D'Va had boob socks, Tracer didn't look like she did given the picture, which was ultimately a complaint about her posture not the boob socks. Again people were talking about the poses being impossible, which while a little exaggerated (being cartoony and all) were simply not that bad.Well, I doubt people completely ignored Tracer in their criticism of the boob socks, my main point with that whole spiel was to have you think about why people would be complaining about it. It's so easy to dismiss someone else's complaint because you "just don't see it". I would ask you to think of why you don't see it.
Yeah fine, but I feel like I do realize it a lot of times, especially in reference to things like impractical wardrobes and I typically only ignore it when when everyone is running around in the snow with their shirt off.I'm not talking about whether or not the wardrobe is impractical. I'm talking about understanding how often we, as dudes, are pandered to and we don't even realize it. It has nothing to do with how much of an idiot you are, we're all idiots here.
You really read that as me defending that kind of stuff, my point is that there aren't enough games that include that particular thing to avoid "a lot of games" because of it. It's classic overstatement, that's what I was reacting to, man talk about seeing what you want to.Some people are put off by that kind of stuff. I would ask you to consider why someone would be put off by it. Especially someone who isn't as familiar with gaming, it'd weird them the fuck out to see people take the "It's okay, she's 1000 years old, it's not echii!" thing so seriously.
Yeah, sometimes I wonder if people blow it out of proportion a little. Off the top of my head I'd say it's probably less bad than the NFL but I don't have a lot of insight into it, Well thanks anyway for your response.There's a lot of the dirty show business shit behind the scenes obviously. I don't want to get into a long post but it's really bad when you get into the effect the industry has on the society itself. There are certainly some decent aspects of it but the way it's handled is just ergh.
Honestly I thought it was pretty clear that my issue wasn't that you avoided the games but that you'd said you avoid a lot. Like how many 5 this year? Is that so common in games being localized?...Yeah? Even though I'm an established Weeb, I don't really want to look at (nor be seen playing) a game with drawings of glorified 8 year olds wearing thongs. I'd imagine most people are the same.
Honestly I thought it was pretty clear that my issue wasn't that you avoided the games but that you'd said you avoid a lot. Like how many 5 this year? Is that so common in games being localized?
Also it's not terribly common but pretty rampant? I particularly meant the 1000 year old loli trope. Also I feel like "potentially great" is a little much for a game with a bunch of lolis plastered all over it.I phrased it weird, it's obviously not terribly common. I like JRPGs, though, and it's pretty rampant in them. There's usually at least one bare-ass loli.
To be fair, its one guy's word against the other there, and taking the side you find more appealing is confirmation bias.
I'm speaking from a purely neutral standpoint of course.
Yeah, sometimes I wonder if people blow it out of proportion a little. Off the top of my head I'd say it's probably less bad than the NFL but I don't have a lot of insight into it, Well thanks anyway for your response.
Also it's not terribly common but pretty rampant? I particularly meant the 1000 year old loli trope. Also I feel like "potentially great" is a little much for a game with a bunch of lolis plastered all over it.