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DoJ takes a step back from effort to protect transgender people under existing law
- Thread starter Tovarisc
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timetokill
Banned
Just sad as hell.
I think our best bet may actually be economic pressure... the financial hit NC is seeing from losing sports hosting as well as the NFL pushing (slightly for now) against Texas... well, hopefully the almighty dollar changes their tune, if general decency is off the table.
I think our best bet may actually be economic pressure... the financial hit NC is seeing from losing sports hosting as well as the NFL pushing (slightly for now) against Texas... well, hopefully the almighty dollar changes their tune, if general decency is off the table.
pigeon interrupted
Member
Tbh, America was always teetering on the brink with separation of church and state, and it was one of my dearest hopes that something like this wouldn't happen but the rise in anti-intellectualism suggested it really could. And now the cabinet has become the legion of doom. It's still so surreal. What a difference a month makes. Trans has joined an active target list now, alongside Muslims, women's reproductive rights, those with medical conditions and Mexicans. People need to stand up and be counted. I don't wan't to have to quote Martin Niemoller's maxim just yet, but a pattern is becoming obvious.
Well, my mother is East Asian, so I'm lucky in some respects (unlucky in others, lol): short stature, Trumpian-small hands
, high cheekbones. Sometimes I pass, othertimes I don't. Derision I can deal with and have dealt with. It bothers me but as long as nobody lays hands on me, I just deal. I don't feel I have to put on airs and graces; these days I don't care if people know I'm not cis. I like being who I am. I'm 36, almost 37, and what kept me in the closet for 34 of those years was primarily the violence doled out to LGBT persons. What brought me out was a marked change in attitude, and seeing trans women in the media being treated respectfully. I knew things were far from perfect but it was the best it had ever been. Now we are faced with this negative environment where the US government says, in not so many words, that it's okay to discriminate against us. It hurts to be treated as subhuman and to be painted as unworthy of empathy/equity. Economic hardships aside, any action by the government perceived as anti-us puts our lives in mortal danger. All we need is sanctuary. People need to speak up now if they really do care and hold the values they say they do. I don't want to feel like myself and people I care about are fair game because we don't meet an impossible standard. So, bump
Sorry mods, I know I shouldn't use the b word ;_;
SpaceCadetKeon
Banned
Fuck, if that's true, then I need to finish updating the rest of my identification ASAP. Also, I'm fortunate to have a family and friends who accept me, but I still live in Arkansas. This shit makes me nervous.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Ugh, expected but still disgusting.
One thing that always confused me is when trans protection or advocacy is brought up I sometimes only see transwomen mentioned. This specific twitter poster even did it when they said "One vulnerability they've consistently turned up is transmisogyny. Lots of groups can be induced to vilify or wish away trans women. Useful!". What's the point of pointing out transwomen only? I'm sure these groups just hate trans people, so I'm not even sure if it is wrapped up in the misogyny part of it.
Are transmen just rarer or are they forgotten?
One thing that always confused me is when trans protection or advocacy is brought up I sometimes only see transwomen mentioned. This specific twitter poster even did it when they said "One vulnerability they've consistently turned up is transmisogyny. Lots of groups can be induced to vilify or wish away trans women. Useful!". What's the point of pointing out transwomen only? I'm sure these groups just hate trans people, so I'm not even sure if it is wrapped up in the misogyny part of it.
Are transmen just rarer or are they forgotten?
Some people have a real problem with the idea that equality and equal rights means everybody.Same.
This shit just makes my blood boil tbh. The fact that this thread only has 3 pages is absolutely ridiculous. Everybody deserves human rights and I will not stand idly by as people continue to be oppressed by the so called "moderates".
If you fight for your group, or some groups, but not all groups your not looking for equality, you just want your group to be able to sit at the privilege table.
As a cis person I find this one of the most important things to fight for. Trans people are marginalized even by other minority groups, and no one other than them and the rare person who cares are willing to stand up.
Bottom line Trans Rights are Human Rights and there is no equal rights until we are all equal and group privelige is a thing of the past.
SpaceCadetKeon
Banned
It just occurred to me, even if Trump was serious about protecting LGBTQ individuals, he'd still sign an EO hurting us because he doesn't read the damn things.
Probably because the majority of anti-trans rhetoric specifically targets and demonizes trans women.
"Men posing as women to enter the women's bathroom to rape your daughter."
That kind of stuff. Similarly, gay / bisexual men were the primary target of anti-gay-marriage rhetoric. Lesbian / bisexual women were less the specific target of that anti-gay rhetoric, probably in part because of ideas like "But lesbians are hot!".
I assume some of the most vocal anti-gay-marriage people see trans women as gay men, as in "Men who refuse to admit they're actually just gay." - falsely relating sexuality to gender. Trans men are less common, which probably plays a part in them not being the main target, but they are also still seen as women by many anti-trans people, and painting women as sexual predators is not something you can successfully do in our current culture. Most anti-trans bullshit is also drenched in 'regular' sexism, like the idea that cis women need 'protection'. It's a combination of a ton of existing toxic / sexist / bigoted sentiments and ideas.
You could write several papers on the layers of toxic underlying ideas, but the short version is that the rhetoric specifically targets trans women because we can be vilified easier and it taps into existing anti-gay sentiments.
As has been pointed out, there is a contingent of left leaning people that view trans rights as something that can be side-lined. People I know that I would consider progressive in all other aspects just can't seem to wrap their heads around trans issues (the whole Jordan Peterson thing last year exposed some regressive tendencies in people I thought were above that).
I hope there's more push back against this. Fuck the Trump administration.
I hope there's more push back against this. Fuck the Trump administration.
Transgender Law Center
Trans Lifeline
Trans Student Educational Wellbeing
Lambda Legal.
There's some more listed here.
This post more or less hits all the right points. It's an unfortunate side effect that trans men aren't often discussed in part because transwomen are most often targeted. To those who hate the trans community, it almost seems transmen don't exist. Which is a dangerous line of thought for anyone to carry. It delitigmizes the potential pain and fear that transmen also go through when we as a community are attacked. I do want transmen to feel welcome and that in part requires more acknowledgement period. That said, transwomen are unfortunately often highlighted not just by our tormentors but also by the media at large. We have been the butt of "jokes" for decades at this point and there's not much else to say there. Transwomen are given way more exposure via sexist tropes and it's unfair to us and transmen.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
I hate to even make this comment, but I feel like the immigration / refugee ban was intentionally miss handled to exhaust people from fighting for stuff like this.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
They're not that competent. The ban fired people up, and got everyone's attention on the Hill. Notice how the Congress GOP has been dead silent outside of the Cabinet?
Now Sessions is somewhat competent so they are testing the waters and not breaking windows like before. We'll see once a formal change in policy happens.
TenCentCoast
Banned
People have been intentionally ignoring and harming us for far longer than that.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
I guess I'm just hoping there was a little more faith in the voice of people considering everything going on, but given the amount of backlash I've seen with the womans march and now these postings I should accept that's not the case.
Ive seen said from day 1 of Trump in the primaries and I still stand by people are completely underestimating what he and his inner circle are capable of.
I shake my head every time someone non ironically says this. You can't debate with someone that sees your existence as less than their own.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
You're giving them waaay too much credit here..try aunt that savvy.
Exactly..
Ivanka is definitely in dc. I saw her at a solidcore class. It was kind of surreal.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Personally I think it's the opposite. People give him too much credit. There is so much thinking that there is secret Trump or having ulterior motives. Take what he does at face value, this is who he is and how he acts. He really is this stupid.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Is there one that you recommend above others?
SerTapTap
Member
Someone in my Discord server who is allegedly trans (but also a pathological liar so I don't believe anything she says) and says she voted for trump because he was pro LGBT and not all trans people think alike and my opinion is valuable but I'm not a bigot and blah blah blah
I later banned her for pestering someone else in DMs for posting about Trump. The person they were harassing was an actual trans person too.
I'd say they'd feel like an idiot now but I know they've never defended Trump in good faith. They're probably happy more people will suffer, that's Trump's whole platform.
Agreed, people fear a bumbling idiot like him but when/if he is impeached and the Pence adminstration is leading without having the added stress of doing damage control for this twitter happy orange oaf.
Trump doesn't have the legal or political background Pence does or even half the intellect.
I don't believe for a second Trump had the knowledge required to pen his own EO. He just has a general idea of what he likes and/or wants.
Trump is giant piece of shit but it's Bannon/Pence that are conducting the presidential affairs.
.... no, not even close, it was around 60%, and going right as you get older is a real occurrence.
Yep, this is why I dont care for generational trends because it's just two sides of the same coin.
Today's young liberal is tomorrows older conservative.
And each generation had an older generation that would tell them they're lazy and ruining everything.
Team Alucard
Banned
Not at all. The post puberty effects are extremely subtle and the only people who pass after HRT are individuals who had more androgynous frames to begin with (twinks, people with intersex conditions, and certain people of East Asian descent.)
Passing is 90% bone structure, 10% voice. Neither of which is changed at all by hrt.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
10 years ago when Bush was in office everyone was saying the same thing and here we are with a just a vocal conservative base. You need to stop thinking these things just go away as people die. They don't.
Team Alucard
Banned
The GOP's bread and butter has never been the elderly, but the baby boomers. They were 40-60 years old during Bush and they're 50-70 years old now. Still nowhere near dying off unfortunately.
A Link to the Past
Banned
To be fair, those expectations were due in part to an unexpected turnout by the conservative base. The issue is that younger generations aren't adopting conservative politics as much.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Again, the ideology is not going to just die off. This is a poor way of approaching the current situation when it comes to social issues. It's emphasizing the wait it out approach which is the wrong way to deal with it.
I'd like to be optimistic and think there is some truth to that, but I also have to be realistic and keep in mind it isn't a binary. There are and will be younger conservatives (last college class I was in there were at least a handful of white guys who were Pro-Trump, and at best cold enough on Clinton to not want to vote for her), and if anything the reality probably is that a solid chunk of youth have those leanings AND the viewpoints that are either bigoted or enable those that are, and I half expect some people who are politically neutral as young adults go conservative as they finally decide to get involved.
I mean, they were saying that about Bush 10 years back, but you also look at the polls and see there is still favoring Clinton among 30-40 year olds. Even if change is happening it's a slow process, slow enough to let shit like this happen.
excelsiorlef
Member
Can you stop explaining what I as a trans person actually experienced...
Yeah it's not gonna do wonders for everyone but it absolutely can do wonders for some folks.
Team Alucard
Banned
This is a lie:
Just like many other anecdotal claims about HRT ("I lost 5 inches of height!", "I lost all my facial hair!", "my feet shrank two sizes!") are bald faced lies.
HRT does change soft tissue, but these changes absolutely are not enough for the average adult AMAB to have a frame that is within a few standard deviations of the average adult cis female.
natsuyasumi
Member
Whoa, snap.
Always a treat to see their self-loathing and absurdly reductive pessimism in an OT trans thread.
Alucard, I feel a little bad bein' snide but I know from past threads that it's pointless trying to sway your incredibly negative (to the point of being inaccurate) worldview.
natsuyasumi
Member
I lost at least an inch and went down one shoe size, fwiw.
It did so for me, and other folks I know. Fat placement can work wonders. Not that you care.
Crap, I'm engaging. Pull out, pull out!
TarpitCarnivore
Member
That's exactly the point I'm trying to get at. The assumption that as people die off that the bigotry, racism and hatred will stop is a bit naive. We're still dealing with institutionalized racism.
As far as i know that method doesn't work that well.
excelsiorlef
Member
I said can... and it does. You can see this in a lot of trans folks. Is it going to do wonders for everyone? No but it can
Your absurd insistence that it can't is frankly bizarre
Is it bad that I laughed?
I kind of wanted to say something but as a cis individual didn't feel comfortable or that it was my place.
I like Transgender Law Center. Lambda Legal is cool too. If you want to tackle it from a legal fight standpoint, that'd be the way to go. Trans Lifeline is as the name implies....a lifeline calling center for trans people. And the other one I specifically listed pushes for acceptance of kids who are trans in schooling systems. There's many more tho in the states/around the world.
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