Support NeoGAF

[BHK3]

When's the last time you saw anyone jungling in a competitive game though, other than offlane darkseer going there cause he's getting brutalized in his lane. We need incentive for people to pick shit in the jungle again and the new item seems pretty good for that. Chen buffs, Enigma buffs, Lycan buffs, it's jungle time.

Aether lens though I don't know. I mean it sounds really nice for a lot of heroes and shit but might end up being broken? Or might not, it's hard to say how much of an impact 200range would have, on most stuff it wouldn't really be a huge deal. Some shit though, it's quite big. Witch Doctor with 675range maledict and dropping death ward like 300units away from him is quite a big deal for example. Shaker fissure blocks from fog are a ton easier if you add 200units to it.

Still happy to see large changes, makes the game fun. It'll probably be shit until the first or second patch though.

The cast range is 50% of the OPness of the item. The other is that it provides a lot with cheap components and all in 1 slot. As a pudge player this is definitely my favourite item, bigger hook, dismember all while giving HP regen, a mana pool boost and making me tankier because of the resistance. Also increases zeus bolt hit range to 1275 up from 1075(700 cast range + 375 search radius). Veil + Lens gives like 20 hp regen together. Vengefuls stun is now a great cast range and level 6 swap isn't trash anymore. I honestly can't think of many heros that shouldn't buy this item, just get it on everyone what's the harm?

I think Dragon Lance is worthless outside of Luna/TA, Faerie Fire is even more worthless and will need the mango treatment of like 4-5 buffs in a row to get bought because I have no clue what it's for. Iron Talon you can purchase outright + Tangos and is gonna be my go to build in the jungle.

 

[NormalFish]

Wait lens effects bolt? I would think that would be considered an aoe

 

[Pyros_Eien]

Dragon Lance is pretty good on TA/Gyro too. Low range attack centric heroes. Gyro can generally do fine with Flak, but for TA it's pretty solid and could arguably make it worth picking over blink, since the main point of blink is getting in range to attack, but if you have good base range, it might not be super needed.

Might also be cute on long range heroes, Lina, Drow and WR and stuff, can attack towers from out of range.

Buildup isn't bad either especially since it can be disassembled. Ogre Club into BKB or Sange and Staff into Butterfly. Just in general it gives good stats for a good price.

Wait lens effects bolt? I would think that would be considered an aoe

Bolt is single target? It has an aoe targetting thing but that doesn't matter, plus it still would work even if it was aoe. It wouldn't increase the actual radius of the aoe, but would let you cast the aoe further.

 

[Acinixys]

IF Stealing abilities from HotS like its fucking nothing

SF aghs ult is Diablos upgraded Fire Stomp
Venge aghs is Skeleton Kings ult

Also Jakiro is going to be AIDS in lane now

Liquid fire + 7 base damage

Enjoy hating every second of the lane-ing stage

 

[Volodja]

Wait lens effects bolt? I would think that would be considered an aoe

I think when they said that AoE range isn't buffed, they meant AoE effects centered on the hero, like Ravage, RP and such. Also the radius of all AoE abilities.
Casting range for AoE abilities that have to be aimed seems to be buffed by the Lens (at least based on the ones I've tried).

 

[Monochromaticx]

does lens increase the range for exorcism?

also the evil genuis PPD doing patch analysis/reading http://www.twitch.tv/ppd

 

[Maddrical]

I think when they said that AoE range isn't buffed, they meant AoE effects centered on the hero, like Ravage, RP and such. Also the radius of all AoE abilities.
Casting range for AoE abilities that have to be aimed seems to be buffed by the Lens (at least based on the ones I've tried).

That would make the most sense. Mystic Flare deals its damage in an aoe but I'd assume Aether Lens increases the range of it because it's targetable.

 

[Pyros_Eien]

IF Stealing abilities from HotS like its fucking nothing

SF aghs ult is Diablos upgraded Fire Stomp
Venge aghs is Skeleton Kings ult

Also Jakiro is going to be AIDS in lane now

Liquid fire + 7 base damage

Enjoy hating every second of the lane-ing stage

Venge agh is quite different than Leoric's passive. It spawns an illusion that can be killed and still does damage, and when she respawns she still respawns in the fountain.

SF is a lot closer to Diablo's talent though yeah, then again the concept isn't very original, Razor's Plasma Field is basically the same thing only a circle instead of individual projectile.

 

[BHK3]

I remember Enigma getting a very small +25 cast range on black hole many patches ago and the pros saying it has to be really small to not be broken...

 

[Pyros_Eien]

does lens increase the range for exorcism?

also the evil genuis PPD doing patch analysis/reading http://www.twitch.tv/ppd

Just checked, it doesn't.

 

[cris7198]

Dragon Lance is pretty good on TA/Gyro too. Low range attack centric heroes. Gyro can generally do fine with Flak, but for TA it's pretty solid and could arguably make it worth picking over blink, since the main point of blink is getting in range to attack, but if you have good base range, it might not be super needed.

Might also be cute on long range heroes, Lina, Drow and WR and stuff, can attack towers from out of range.

Buildup isn't bad either especially since it can be disassembled. Ogre Club into BKB or Sange and Staff into Butterfly. Just in general it gives good stats for a good price.

Honestly I don't see myself picking it over blink, the thing with blink is you see a squishy fool farming, you blink meld crit him and the fool is dead, but if you try to get near he sees you and runs away/blinks, or might be useful in teamfights or to chase? idk gonna have to test it and see if its worth

I remember Enigma getting a very small +25 cast range on black hole many patches ago and the pros saying it has to be really small to not be broken...

Cliff blackholing? In the roshpit high ground could be huge

 

[NormalFish]

Bolt is single target? It has an aoe targetting thing but that doesn't matter, plus it still would work even if it was aoe. It wouldn't increase the actual radius of the aoe, but would let you cast the aoe further.

I think when they said that AoE range isn't buffed, they meant AoE effects centered on the hero, like Ravage, RP and such. Also the radius of all AoE abilities.
Casting range for AoE abilities that have to be aimed seems to be buffed by the Lens (at least based on the ones I've tried).

I would expect bolt to be programmed like an AoE spell, which hits a single hero within the range of the AoE. It seems odd that the targeting range would be increased, given that's a buff to the area of effect of the spell assuming it is in fact coded the way I think it is. If someone's tested though and it does effect it, then alright.
**
Just realized I misread what he was saying. Though he was adding 200 to the search range. My b.

 

[Hazaro]

Arc Warden seems nutso. He doesn't even need items to fuck people up. Just level 6/7. Even Support Arc with 4 points in Bubble is 10 seconds aoe 100% evasion + tower pushing madness. Vision scouting with wraiths, Ulti can TP to respond to any pushing wave. Like, IDK.

 

[Monochromaticx]

so lens = glimmer cape of this patch?

 

[Hazaro]

so lens = glimmer cape of this patch?

Not even close.

 

[Pyros_Eien]

Some tests with Aether Lens, I'm going through the list of heroes to see which interesting things I can find:

Tiny: Doesn't increase Toss target acquisition range. So while you can toss further, you can't grab someone further away than the normal distance.

Dragon Knight: Does increase Breathe Fire max range, pretty standard but wasn't sure. Seems to increase the range on all these type of projectiles kinda stuff(Dragon Slave, Drow silence etc). Doesn't increase Dragon Form range as expected

Magnus: Does increase Skewer range.

Doom: New Infernal Blade skill shows extrended range UI when you have the Lens, but it still requires to be in melee range to apply even when using the ability+left click. Also it melts high health heroes like wtf, 20% max hp even with magic resist is ridiculous.

Bristleback: Does not increase Aghanim Nasal Goo range, even though it affects the non aghanim version as expected.

SF: No effect on raze distance.

PL/Mirana/Slark: No effect on leap/pounce/charge distance, I assume because of no targetting. Affects blinks and stuff fine.

Puck: No effect on Orb distance(weird for this one I think? might be the distance is tied to the duration of the spell rather than an actual distance value).

Rhasta: No effect on ward attack range, didn't expect it to work but eh. Can assume the same for other wards, too lazy to test.

Rubick: No effect on the 2nd part of Telekinesis(can't throw people further than usual, simply pick them up further).

Razor: Increases both the link range and the link break range. If it was only the link range it'd be terrible since it'd break instantly, but since it also increases max break range, it's actually pretty good.

 

[Shuggananas]

oh man arc warden is hilarious

refresher plus necrobook means you can summon three sets of necro dudes, one from each tempest double

and of course t r i p l e m i d a s g a m i n g

are tempest doubles supposed to spawn with reset cooldowns?

Double necro rfo for 6 necro sets

 

[Acinixys]

Arc Warden seems nutso. He doesn't even need items to fuck people up. Just level 6/7. Even Support Arc with 4 points in Bubble is 10 seconds aoe 100% evasion + tower pushing madness. Vision scouting with wraiths, Ulti can TP to respond to any pushing wave. Like, IDK.

SK stun with Aghs is top tier

 

[Reckoner]

I always thought that Mirana attack range was too high already and she could be a pain in the ass at harassing. It is gonna be so annoying now.

Btw, what about the HUD redesign? Thought it was coming with this.

 

[User 85168]

Some tests with Aether Lens, I'm going through the list of heroes to see which interesting things I can find:

Tiny: Doesn't increase Toss target acquisition range. So while you can toss further, you can't grab someone further away than the normal distance.

Dragon Knight: Does increase Breathe Fire max range, pretty standard but wasn't sure. Seems to increase the range on all these type of projectiles kinda stuff(Dragon Slave, Drow silence etc). Doesn't increase Dragon Form range as expected

Magnus: Does increase Skewer range.

Doom: New Infernal Blade skill shows extrended range UI when you have the Lens, but it still requires to be in melee range to apply even when using the ability+left click. Also it melts high health heroes like wtf, 20% max hp even with magic resist is ridiculous.

Bristleback: Does not increase Aghanim Nasal Goo range, even though it affects the non aghanim version as expected.

SF: No effect on raze distance.

PL/Mirana/Slark: No effect on leap/pounce/charge distance, I assume because of no targetting. Affects blinks and stuff fine.

Puck: No effect on Orb distance(weird for this one I think? might be the distance is tied to the duration of the spell rather than an actual distance value).

Rhasta: No effect on ward attack range, didn't expect it to work but eh. Can assume the same for other wards, too lazy to test.

Rubick: No effect on the 2nd part of Telekinesis(can't throw people further than usual, simply pick them up further).

Razor: Increases both the link range and the link break range. If it was only the link range it'd be terrible since it'd break instantly, but since it also increases max break range, it's actually pretty good.

Timbersaw? Can he throw chakram the extra distance? I'm guessing Timberchain is an obvious one.

 

[Shuggananas]

star wars in 10 hours

 

[Pyros_Eien]

Timbersaw? Can he throw chakram the extra distance? I'm guessing Timberchain is an obvious one.

Yeah can throw chakram further. Also works with the Agh one.

For the most part it seems that if it's a targetted ability, it will be improved in range(not radius or width or anything else, just range). However if there's a secondary effect with range, it won't(TK 2nd click for example). Non targetted abilities like pounce/leap/raze also seem to not be affected, even though they probably should be? Doesn't affect any radius stuff, so anything that is centered around you isn't affected either. Also doesn't affect orb stuff even when manually clicked(which makes sense but eh).

It's kinda consistent for the most part.

 

[Shuggananas]

Raze shouldn't be affected
imo leap and pounce should be though

 

[User 85168]

Yeah can throw chakram further. Also works with the Agh one.

For the most part it seems that if it's a targetted ability, it will be improved in range(not radius or width or anything else, just range). However if there's a secondary effect with range, it won't(TK 2nd click for example). Non targetted abilities like pounce/leap/raze also seem to not be affected, even though they probably should be? Doesn't affect any radius stuff, so anything that is centered around you isn't affected either. Also doesn't affect orb stuff even when manually clicked(which makes sense but eh).

It's kinda consistent for the most part.

Seems like a good item. Good build-up, cheap total cost, amazing effects on certain heroes. I think it'll be a core build up for Skywrath for sure, if he ever gets played.

 

[Atlantis]

I always thought that Mirana attack range was too high already and she could be a pain in the ass at harassing. It is gonna be so annoying now.

Btw, what about the HUD redesign? Thought it was coming with this.

She was in the 600 attack range group with like 20 other heroes. Her base damage is terrible, too.

 

[Reckoner]

She was in the 600 attack range group with like 20 other heroes. Her base damage is terrible, too.

I remember picking her and harassing well in pubs and being surprised at how well I could dominate the lane. But I pick TA a lot lmao.

 

[Drkirby]

Undertale won the GameFAQs poll for BEST GAME OF ALL TIME

#1, #1, #1

 

[Kard8p3]

fuck

just cracked my phone

gssdfsd

 

[User 85168]

I always thought that Mirana attack range was too high already and she could be a pain in the ass at harassing. It is gonna be so annoying now.

Btw, what about the HUD redesign? Thought it was coming with this.

You could probably lane her okay in the new offlane now, being able to pull it and just shooting arrows into the hard camp if you get zoned out. But then again... You have a offlane Mirana. I'm not really sure what she offers to the team that others can do much better.

 

[Shuggananas]

I feel like the new doom spell is garbage ?
Sure it ministuns alright, but the effect... on a 2000 hp hero that's "only" 140 bonus damage every 4 seconds ?
Combined with his 2.0 BAT.... ehhhhh

4-4-0-3 build ?

 

[User 85168]

I feel like the new doom spell is garbage ?
Sure it ministuns alright, but the effect... on a 2000 hp hero that's "only" 140 bonus damage every 4 seconds ?
Combined with his 2.0 BAT.... ehhhhh

4-4-0-3 build ?

He can't break linkens anymore either. And his sustain in lane got nerfed too.

 

[Shuggananas]

btw arcane rune on storm spirit LOLOLOLOL

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

SK surely should just go straight aghs, he can burrow without needing blink now?

 

[Shuggananas]

eh blink is half the price, gives more range and flexibility, gives much more utility
blink > force > aghs still king tbh

 

[Drkirby]

I feel like the new doom spell is garbage ?
Sure it ministuns alright, but the effect... on a 2000 hp hero that's "only" 140 bonus damage every 4 seconds ?
Combined with his 2.0 BAT.... ehhhhh

4-4-0-3 build ?

Isn't it 40+5% per second, not total?

 

[Anbokr]

aight lycan is actually a god now im rly nervous hes insta fp/fb again

So around 15 minutes into a test client game ive taken rosh, have close to 10cs a minute (iron talon brings back 6.75 pure jungle lycan), and EACH INDIVIDUAL NECRO WARRIOR crits for 300-400 damage under shapeshift. I was literally 1v5ing an entire team killing each hero in 2-3s at the 15 minute mark.

Positive changes:
*30% --->40% crit (remember wolves have ~1 BAT and necro warriors ~0.70 BAT ROFL)
*iron talon + cripple (new wolves ability) allows lycan to be a better jungler than his 6.75 version
*crit necro warriors and wolves with cripple AND crit (180% at level 3 now) deals an INSANE amount of damage, remember the 1.5 --> 1.7 BAT nerf was a ~14% damage decrease, im guna talk out of my ass and say the necro warriors critting is like a raw 50% damage increase to lycan under shapeshift compared to 6.85 (the 40% crit up from 30% and 180% at 16 is probably another ~15-20% dmg increase from 6.85)
*necro3 150g cheaper and better scaling (again)
*other push heroes like dp/ss buffed
*more jungle camps to farm
*rosh got buffed and lycan still one of the few heroes that can fast rosh and solo rosh, rosh buffs actually buff rosh heroes more than non-rosh heroes imo, cuz they become more necessary to take rosh down more quickly and frequently relative to the rest of the pool
*boots and yasha nerf means everyone in the game went down 5 MS (agi heroes that buy yasha another 15-25 MS), big indirect buff
*big winter wyvern nerf and removal from CM--one of the hardest lycan counters and phys dmg counter in general

im guna have a lot of fun this patch boys

 

[Shuggananas]

Isn't it 40+5% per second, not total?

oh.. right nevermind
So on a 2000hp hero that's... 560 damage ?
ok

 

[Wonderboy91]

I wonder if Aether Lens is meant to work on items. Im pretty sure it does currently. Seems way good, especially for the cost. Dragon Lance on the other hand feels pretty underwhelming.

 

[Shuggananas]

Any agi ranged carry will make the lance, it has components from bkb and butterfly... basically just skip drum I feel
No recipe, can be disassembled

Oh it also makes most ranged heroes outrange towers ROFL

 

[Wonderboy91]

Any agi ranged carry will make the lance, it has components from bkb and butterfly... basically just skip drum I feel
No recipe, can be disassembled

Maybe. Its an item that occupies a weird spot for sure.

Map changes always give me such a weird feeling. There's like a weird uncanny valley effect to them.

 

[Trickster]

Just woke up, damn this patch delivers lol. Is it out yet?

 

[Hylian7]

Just woke up, damn this patch delivers lol. Is it out yet?

Only in test client, not in the actual game yet. Hopefully comes out today (Wednesday).

 

[sleverfunk]

Only in test client, not in the actual game yet. Hopefully comes out today (Wednesday).

Hopefully it comes out today or tommorow (thursday) so I can play after star wars.

 

[Anbokr]

aight yeah im just jungling lycan every single game this patch is guna be amazing

 

[kionedrik]

ppd patch analysis

just watching it myself but I'm expecting salt.

 

[Shuggananas]

aight yeah im just jungling lycan every single game this patch is guna be amazing

yeah talon is exactly what lycan needed for early jungle, just start with hard camps and go ham tbh

 

[Anbokr]

yeah talon is exactly what lycan needed for early jungle, just start with hard camps and go ham tbh

yep talon makes him a better jungler than he was when he was OP in 6.75 and giving necro units critical strike gives him more damage than when he was OP in 6.81, and on top of that he got 522 --> 650 MS shapeshift since then, and still does the exact same battering ram damage to towers

.

this makes me believe that the early leak from nrootn (dp rework, radiant jungle rework, lycan aghs) was 100% accurate and the lycan aghs was just removed at some point during testing because it woulda been way too much/strong in one single patch combined with his other direct and indirect changes

 

[Shuggananas]

fuck cloud bayo is the biggest thing to happen to smash

 

[Lotto]

DESERT MAP LOOKS GLORIOUS

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Still salty over Huskar's nerfs. What was IF thinking?