I've heard this from others as well but on my end fraps works without problem up to 3840x2160 resolution.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Downsampling, a simple method for making your pc-games look better.
- Thread starter Corky
- Start date
I've heard this from others as well but on my end fraps works without problem up to 3840x2160 resolution.
Then all you gotta do is to set the ingame resolution, doing things like tabbing out should bring you to a desktop that has your native resolution.
Cannon Goose
Member
If you did it from 1920x1200 and used some SMAA or FXAA it'd probably look pretty nice.
PowerK
Member
Nice thread! This downsampling method is just another way to achieve OGSSAA. Indeed, this downsampling method can be very useful for games (especially old games) where the games do not support any form of AA.
However, with pretty much majority of modern games, you can achieve better results by forcing SSAA in Nvidia inspector. (I said better because you get no scaling artefacts from extra scaling process in the chain from using custom resolution downsampling).
In Nvidia Inspector, you have...
OGSSAA (ordered grid supersampling):
1x2 SSAA (2xSSAA)
2x1 SSAA (2xSSAA)
2x2 SSAA (4xSSAA)
3x3 SSAA (9xSSAA)
4x4 SSAA (16xSSAA)
HSAA (hybridsampling, MSAA + SSAA + auto lod bias):
4xS (2xMSAA + 2xSSAA)
8xS (4xMSAA + 2xSSAA)
8xSQ (2xMSAA + 4xSSAA)
12xS (4xOGMSAA + 4xSSAA)
16xS (4xMSAA + 4xSSAA)
32xS (8xMSAA + 4xSSAA)
However, with pretty much majority of modern games, you can achieve better results by forcing SSAA in Nvidia inspector. (I said better because you get no scaling artefacts from extra scaling process in the chain from using custom resolution downsampling).
In Nvidia Inspector, you have...
OGSSAA (ordered grid supersampling):
1x2 SSAA (2xSSAA)
2x1 SSAA (2xSSAA)
2x2 SSAA (4xSSAA)
3x3 SSAA (9xSSAA)
4x4 SSAA (16xSSAA)
HSAA (hybridsampling, MSAA + SSAA + auto lod bias):
4xS (2xMSAA + 2xSSAA)
8xS (4xMSAA + 2xSSAA)
8xSQ (2xMSAA + 4xSSAA)
12xS (4xOGMSAA + 4xSSAA)
16xS (4xMSAA + 4xSSAA)
32xS (8xMSAA + 4xSSAA)
Can you check what version of Fraps you're running because I'm pretty sure a certain update added the limit.
I'm on version 3.5.9.
If you're on an earlier version I'm definitely downloading it because screenshot size limit is a huge bummer.
Next-Gen, is that you, my friend?
But, yeah, you're going to need some real muscle for that. A GTX670, or 7950 would probably chew through it just fine.
I can't for the life of me get SSAA to work via inspector, I think UT 3 is the one and only game it worked without a massive hassle.
I think there's a console command for P2, something like cl_fov xx where xx is your desired fov, I think I rolled with 90 fov.
I'm using an older version, 3.4.4 I believe.
Oh 3.5.9 actually fixed it apparently. It worked with Dark Souls.
You just change the resolution of the game. Only a few games require you to change desktop resolution.
Barrow Roll
Member
Keep your desktop monitor at your native resolution. Change the in-game resolution only.
So let's say a game doesn't have resolutions above 1080p to choose from will this work by doing it in the desktop as well? I was thinking that the game would change it back once you got in.
Downsampling only works with games that read the list of supported resolutions from the driver, and some ENBs can crash if desktop and game resolution don't match. If games just provide a list of standard resolutions (eg Prototype, Halo 2 and Darksiders I've heard) you have to use hex editing or other solutions to get it working.
Thank you!
Well I'm trying SGSSAA in Inspector and get not satisfying results (FIFA13)
I'd like to know how to make it make it work because I don't really understand. You need to put SGSSAA and MSAA to the same level and adjust negative lod bias? Because when I put 4SGSSAA and 4MSAA with a -1 lodbias there's a grain filter effect and colors look washed out. It's better when using -0.5 but still not perfect. Can someone clarify all that mess please?
Mithos
Member
I'm trying to get AA in an older game Tomb Raider Anniversary (was on steamsale yesterday).
Problem with TRA is that if you use the ingame AA option shadows goes POFF, turn AA off and shadows appear.
"All" I'm trying to do is add that same AA the game uses internally (whatever it is) at the same "quality" 16xAA.
BUT, Nvidia Inspector isn't really my thing yet.
Anyone knowledgeable around to give me some help?
Problem with TRA is that if you use the ingame AA option shadows goes POFF, turn AA off and shadows appear.
"All" I'm trying to do is add that same AA the game uses internally (whatever it is) at the same "quality" 16xAA.
BUT, Nvidia Inspector isn't really my thing yet.
Anyone knowledgeable around to give me some help?
Coolbgdog12
Member
I might have to upgrade my video card seriously If I want to power through some more recent games. Dmc
evil May Cry plays at 30-60fps on 2560x1440. I rather 60fps all the time. If only I could sell my graphics card and update.
evil May Cry plays at 30-60fps on 2560x1440. I rather 60fps all the time. If only I could sell my graphics card and update.
PowerK
Member
The results can vary depending on particular game and AA compatibility bit. It sounds like you're on the right track with matching MSAA samples with SGSSAA samples with negative LOD bias adjustment.
However, I cannot really comments on FIFA13 as I've never tried that game. Have you searched for alternative AA bit ?
Barrow Roll
Member
Try updating your drivers and leaving LOD Bias at 0.00/Automatic. The latest drivers should automatically adjust the LOD Bias. Not sure why it looks grainy though, but I don't have Fifa.
Is this only for monitors? I know monitors need RGB Full on when you plug a system in through HDMI like a ps3 but my pc is connected to a HDTV, would I need the fix? I believe RGB option is for monitors only.
The problem is mainly that Fifa doesn't accept "override AA settings" and you need some flag saying override = enhanced or application controller".
As far as I knew there isn't an AA flag specifically for FIFA 13. Fuck that shit...
B-B-Bomba!
Member
Can we clarify that this simply doesn't apply in instances where graphics processing switches between integrated and specialised cards (eg laptops that do this to save power consumption)?
If that's the case could it please be added to the OP? I have had a frustrating and disappointing 15 minutes.
Or is it possible that I can temporarily override Optimus? Would love some pointers if so. Tx
If that's the case could it please be added to the OP? I have had a frustrating and disappointing 15 minutes.
Or is it possible that I can temporarily override Optimus? Would love some pointers if so. Tx
I don't hink it does, I don't have a laptop to try it on unfortunately.
As mentioned, I have no experience with laptops so I don't know whether or not it works. If someone could give me a confirmation that it does/doesn't then I'll add it to the OP.
It will help in literally every single game if they let you do it.
Which from my experience has been every single game I tried other than the few I can count on one hand.
- Darksiders 1 being one of them, the game won't let you render above 2560xY without doing some hex-editing.
Then there's always 2D indiegames, or just smaller titles in general for that matter, that sometimes don't even have visual options to begin with where in any case downsampling would do squat diddly.
Barrow Roll
Member
Pretty sure it doesn't work on Mass Effect 3.
You can also use SGSSAA in hybrid modes, this turns the 32xS mode to proper 32xSGSSAA. (with interesting 4OG*8SG sample pattern.)
This looks very nice, although not many games are really playable with the setting.
By creating these custom resolutions, they'll show up in the options menu of your games. It would be just the same as picking 1280x720 or 1920x1080 in the menu of your game. Now though, you'll also see any custom resolutions you've created.
So it would be on a game by game basis.
I feel like someone could probably word that a whole lot better, than i did. But hopefully you get the idea.
PedroPanache
Member
Just tried this out with my 670 and the latest Nvidia drivers, and my only issue is is that I can't select GPU instead of display in the "Perform Scaling" tab; other than that, it seems to work, the resolution setting I maxed out at was 3200x1800, and it seems fine so far, the custom resolutions show up in my games and work. Does the fact that I can't select GPU matter at all?
I've bumped into this before and I honestly don't know if it is a bug or if indeed it is the display that's actually doing the scaling. If someone more knowledgeable could chime in I'd appreciate it. In the end, if it still works then I say go for it, you're still downsampling.
I think there's a word or two missing in that first sentence
With regards to sgssaa, you want at least equal amounts of msaa, in other words :
4xSGSSAA + 4xMSAA
4xSGSSAA + 8xMSAA
8xSGSSAA + 8xMSAA, and so forth.
When it comes to negative lod bias the values are ( from what I've understood )
2xSGSSAA : -0.5
4xSGSSAA : -1.0
8xSGSSAA : -2.0
Here's an informative write-up from http://naturalviolence.webs.com/sgssaa.htm
General
SGSSAA can be better or worse than OGSSAA depending on the game. In some games it can be blurry while OGSSAA isn't, and vice versa. It works on pretty much any graphics engine regardless of API (d3d9/10/11/openGL etc.). It works by rendering multiple times to several offscreen intermediate buffers, each time it applies an offset to the sample coordinates in a different direction. Then it resolves (blends) the buffers post-processing. At the present time nobody except nvidia knows for sure if this implementation is hardware or driver (shader) based.
Blurring
SGSSAA does produce blur in some games just like OGSSAA does in the XxX and xS modes. And once again it has nothing to do with LOD. The xS modes have an auto lod adjustment but that doesn't help you when a game is producing a blurry image due to a conflicting post-processing shader.
The story behind SGSSAA:
Nvidia implemented TRSSAA as an alpha test that supersampled pixels that passed. A bug was present in one of the drivers they released for the new fermi cards that caused the alpha test to always pass and therefore apply SGSSAA to all pixels. They fixed the bug in the next release but many users said that they liked the look of fullscene SGSSAA and complained about its removal. This caused nvidia to release a tool that allowed the bug to be re-enabled. Despite the fact that this tool was made by nvidia they do not officially support it, it comes with a nice fat "use at your own risk" warning. The new fermi cards + new drivers made nhancer no longer compatible (since it never got updated for the 200 series drivers) and since the developer of nhancer has dropped off the face of the planet we can expect it to never be updated. However in the meantime another developer made a better app that did the same thing, nvidia inspector. He included the SGSSAA hack in it.
Therefore SGSSAA technically comes in two forms, FSSGSSAA (fullscene sparse gride supersampling anti-aliasing, which is SGSSAA applied to the entire scene) or TRSGSSAA (tranparency sparse grid supersampling anti-aliasing, which is SGSSAA applied only to transparent textures).
As far as nvidia inspector and nvcp (nvidia control panel) are concerned they are listed under the following names:
FSSGSSAA is just called SGSSAA
TRSGSSAA is just called TRSSAA or "Transparency Supersampling"
Technically both of them are SGSSAA, but only the fullscene implementation is called SGSSAA.
How to set it up:
Set AA to 4xMSAA. Set Transparency multisampling to off/supersampling. Set Transparency Supersampling to 4xSGSSAA. Set the AA mode to override. Change the AA comp. bit to whatever the correct combination should be for that game. And set negative lod bias to allow. Make sure you hit apply before closing nvidia inspector (in the upper right corner) or it won't work (this is one thing I really liked about nhancer, it auto-saved your profile settings whenever you changed something)!
Please keep in mind that whenever you use SGSSAA you should always match the number of MSAA samples used to the number of SGSSAA samples used. 8xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA will usually have lower quality than 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA. This is because SGSSAA gets its sample coordinates from the MSAA samples. So if you have more MSAA samples than SGSSAA samples the SGSSAA samples will not be placed in the ideal locations. Also you cannot have more SGSSAA samples than MSAA samples for the same reason (SGSSAA uses the MSAA sample coordinates). Even though it uses MSAA sample coordinates using additional coverage samples will reduce the effectiveness of SGSSAA by changing the grid pattern so that the MSAA samples are placed closer to the center of the pixel (which is a less ideal location). This is why I advised 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA and not 16xCSAA (4xMSAA + 12 extra coverage samples) + 4xSGSSAA.
LOD Bias
Please read this first if you do not understand what the LOD bias option is for: http://naturalviolence.webs.com/lodbias.htm
Set negative lod to allow and set the lod bias as follows:
1x2 OGSSAA (2 samples): -0.5
2x1 OGSSAA (2 samples): -0.5
2xSGSSAA (2 samples): -0.5
2x2 OGSSAA (4 samples): -1.0
4xSGSSAA (4 samples): -1.0
8xSGSSAA (8 samples): -1.5
3x3 OGSSAA (9 samples): -1.58 (or as close as you can get)
4x4 OGSSAA (16 samples): -2.0
The formula for determining the correct lod bias is "y = -0.5 * log, base 2, of
Please note that despite common belief reducing the LOD bias will not eliminate any blurring issues that you may be having. Blurring issues with SGSSAA are caused by conflicting post processing shaders used by an application (game) and have nothing to do with the texture mapping process. Proper SSAA is supposed to IMPROVE texture quality, even without a negative LOD bias, the ability to use a negative LOD bias without any texture shimmering issues is just a nice bonus. Normally without any form of SSAA 0.0 becomes the most ideal LOD bias in most cases, a lower value will increase shimmering and a higher value will reduce the sharpness of distant textures. However SSAA helps fight the texture shimmering that a low LOD bias normally causes (you can use a lower LOD bias without experiencing texture shimmering, the values provided above should maintain the same level of shimmering that a LOD bias of 0.0 without SSAA would have). This allows you to potentially further improve the sharpness of textures, particularly distant textures. It is quite possible with SSAA + lower LOD bias to achieve much better texture quality in some games than would normally be possible without SSAA. Please also keep in mind that you should only do this with fullscene SSAA implementations like SGSSAA or OGSSAA. TRSSAA does not reduce texture shimmering and therefore gives you no reason to lower the LOD bias. Also keep in mind that this trick will only work with d3d9, d3d8, and openGL applications.
Both ati's RGSSAA and nvidia's HSAA have auto lod bias adjustment built in so when using them do not tweak the lod bias. However you still need to make sure you allow negative lod. If you're not using any SSAA set negative lod to clamp.
SGSSAA and OGSSAA work differently. Because of this a set of AA comp. bits that works perfectly with SGSSAA may not work perfectly with OGSSAA or HSAA, and vice versa.
1st Course
Member
How are you connecting your PC to your monitor/TV?
Hmm.
Tried implementing this last night with my GTX 670.
2560x1440 wouldn't work. Just came up with a black screen, so I proceeded to step 5 and went for 3600x2025, which worked fine but doesn't seem to be allowing audio. I tried running DmC at 3600x2025 and it displayed fine, but I lost all my sound in game.
Is this a regular issue? Any fix? Or am I better off trying a different resolution?
Tried implementing this last night with my GTX 670.
2560x1440 wouldn't work. Just came up with a black screen, so I proceeded to step 5 and went for 3600x2025, which worked fine but doesn't seem to be allowing audio. I tried running DmC at 3600x2025 and it displayed fine, but I lost all my sound in game.
Is this a regular issue? Any fix? Or am I better off trying a different resolution?
Hmm interesting, never heard of this before. What kind of sound setup are you running?
Skyfireblaze
Member
I wonder do any of your downsampling users have heard of a injector called SoftTH? It was supposedly meant to force a game to spawn over three monitors but apparently it can be used for "injector based" downsampling and it's a d3d9.dll with a config file like SweetFX and ENB.
I tested it with Sonic Allstars Racing Transformed so far and it seems to work, I say "seems" because I'm actually not sure as I set the injector to downsample from 2560x1440 and the Steam-Overlay became visually smaller than the game and I had a FPS hit of 20fps but I still saw some aliasing happen but that might be the game itself.
For anyone who wants to try it download it from here: http://www.kegetys.fi/forum/index.php?topic=2123.0 and place the injector next to the .exe of a game like usual. Then when you first start the game SoftTH should ask you if you want to create the default configuration file which you can edit afterwards. The important things to trick it into downsampling are the following:
I'm curious to see what everyone here thinks of this, from what I understand (and that's not alot) this seems to work similar to Durantes DSfix and Emulators.
I tested it with Sonic Allstars Racing Transformed so far and it seems to work, I say "seems" because I'm actually not sure as I set the injector to downsample from 2560x1440 and the Steam-Overlay became visually smaller than the game and I had a FPS hit of 20fps but I still saw some aliasing happen but that might be the game itself.
For anyone who wants to try it download it from here: http://www.kegetys.fi/forum/index.php?topic=2123.0 and place the injector next to the .exe of a game like usual. Then when you first start the game SoftTH should ask you if you want to create the default configuration file which you can edit afterwards. The important things to trick it into downsampling are the following:
Code:
renderResolution=2560x1440 <-- Set that to the games target resolution
forceResolution=1
sourceRect=0,0,2560,1440 <-- Make sure the last two numbers match the resolution you want to downsample from
screenMode=1920x1080 <-- Set this to the actual resolution your monitor hasI'm curious to see what everyone here thinks of this, from what I understand (and that's not alot
) this seems to work similar to Durantes DSfix and Emulators.