Chuck Norris
Banned
Hmm, I mean he is the brother of 18 and Krillin. Him knowing about Buu is no more illogical than Roshi or Bulma knowing for example
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Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
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It's more than that actually.
This episode confirmed :
1) 17 was conscious within Cell since he knew he blew himself up (so that means he heard 16's speech to Gohan and is probably why he became a nature protector). Which helps clarify how 17 knew Trunks' name and Goku's "voice".
2) 17 knew Buu because of the genkidama, which also means Babidi's telepathy somehow didn't get through him as I theorized a few days ago.
3) He didn't forget about Buu I assume, for the same reason Shenron couldn't turn him human. "I can't affect people that are stronger than my creator".
This episode confirmed :
1) 17 was conscious within Cell since he knew he blew himself up (so that means he heard 16's speech to Gohan and is probably why he became a nature protector). Which helps clarify how 17 knew Trunks' name and Goku's "voice".
2) 17 knew Buu because of the genkidama, which also means Babidi's telepathy somehow didn't get through him as I theorized a few days ago.
3) He didn't forget about Buu I assume, for the same reason Shenron couldn't turn him human. "I can't affect people that are stronger than my creator".
Romars202129
Member
I dont know if any of that is confirmed actually. He could have known all that from heresay.
But I cant believe they dropped nothing here. I hope its a case of saving that info for later and not they're never explaining anything. Welp.
Tien dojo time!
don't think this episode confirms anything about babidi's telepathy
but maybe once 17 meets the actual buu we will see
but it is also worse than that, since there was a wish to the dragon to make everybody forget about Buu
not sure anyone should even remember Buu's name
the whole thing about "stronger than the creator" I think only applies to damaging people; obviously he could piece together Freeza but he didn't because he wasn't asked to
maybe I could buy the wish not affecting him if he did remember everyone getting genocided
also we don't know if 17 was aware of being inside Cell
but maybe once 17 meets the actual buu we will see
but it is also worse than that, since there was a wish to the dragon to make everybody forget about Buu
not sure anyone should even remember Buu's name
the whole thing about "stronger than the creator" I think only applies to damaging people; obviously he could piece together Freeza but he didn't because he wasn't asked to
maybe I could buy the wish not affecting him if he did remember everyone getting genocided
also we don't know if 17 was aware of being inside Cell
Felt like a pretty useless episode. :/
Felt weird for #17 to agree after refusing last episode where it felt he never got a good reason to reconsider.
The exploding joke doesn't really work with King kai and group being dead either since that would end WORSE for them. It'd only work if they were already brought back to life.
Felt weird for #17 to agree after refusing last episode where it felt he never got a good reason to reconsider.
The exploding joke doesn't really work with King kai and group being dead either since that would end WORSE for them. It'd only work if they were already brought back to life.
Romars202129
Member
I never liked the idea of brainwash dragon. Just because the possibilities are crazy. Like could you just wish an enemie's entire memory away and leave them a babbling toddler?
NeonZ
Member
It also couldn't turn 17 and 18 into humans, just remove their bombs, since they were stronger than it. I'd guess anything that could be considered some kind of attack would fail (and erasing memories would fit there).
that's kind of really random, since Shen Long readily takes off the bombs away from them
besides, the whole thing with "stronger than the creator" means anyone stronger than Dende will remember...and there must be a bunch of people like that
aah, if he remember Trunks from being inside Cell, he'd expect the adult super saiyajin, not the little kid
it's really odd, since people forgot about Piccolo, who conquered the world, only because Piccolo Jr wears a turban
just give a hat to Buu and people will go "who is this guy"
Distresssss
Member
I don't know. I was rewatching it this morning and Mystic Gohan got thrashed by Super Buu but SSJ3 Goku was at least able to hit him. After Buu absorbed Gohan though it was over. No question Buu was stronger with Gotenks/Gohan inside of him but I'd heavily debate Mystic Gohan being stronger than Goku's SSJ3. I doubt Gotenks was stronger either.
The dragon ball rules always inconsistent on what it can and can't do with stronger foes
I truly hope in the very start of the torunament everyone just piles on on Goku and he's knocked out of the arena right away lol.
Lol, well there was this one episode where Goku went to his planet and King Kai was like get the fuck out of here as soon as he saw Goku lol.
NeonZ
Member
Do you mean Super Buu (Gotenks)? Goku facing him was anime-only. Goku in the manga refused to fight Super Buu without anyone absorbed later.
And anyway if you go by the anime, Gohan kept up with him for half an episode before he started losing, while Goku was quickly losing once they started exchanging blows. It's only Kai where it gets kind of odd since they cut the initial anime-only part of Gohan vs Buu (Gotenks), jumping straight to the manga scenes where Gohan is completely outdone from the start, but kept Goku vs Buu (Gotenks).
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
They need to bring tracksuit Goku back. Much better than gohans
Goku's always been a dick disguised as a hero, but they've really ramped it up this arc. It was especially revealing during his last conversation with 17.
GuessMyUserName
Member
But he can finally achieve his dream of owning a boat now.
donkey show
Member
Ehm, 17 doesn't need the Super Dragon Balls to fulfill his wish, does he?
I feel like that's a weak justification for him to join.
I was half expecting the ship to actually blow up, and the regular Dragon Balls not be strong enough to revive every animal on the ship due to some of them being from planets way too far away from Earth, and thus be 17's motivation to join the team.
I feel like that's a weak justification for him to join.
I was half expecting the ship to actually blow up, and the regular Dragon Balls not be strong enough to revive every animal on the ship due to some of them being from planets way too far away from Earth, and thus be 17's motivation to join the team.
Romars202129
Member
Does this mean 17 gets the wish at the end of the tourney? Guess that theory about wishing the erased universes back isnt happening.
Fulminator
Member
That was against Buuhan. Of course there was no way Goku and Vegeta could defeat Buu with Gohan, Gotenks, and piccolo absorbed. HeroR is talking about base super Buu.
Fat Buu is the weakest Buu
This is not how the dragon balls work. They can absolutely affect people who are stronger than the creator, otherwise Goku would not have been able to be wished back after the Saiyan saga.
The dragon balls can't grant wishes that exceed the power of their creator.
So I guess turning an Android human is something Dende can't handle, but he can revive all the people on Earth lol.
17 knowing about Buu and the Genkidama even though he shouldn't know cause of the wish is just Toei being Toei. I wouldn't put too much thought into anything and just be happy that they try to aknowledge some few things. Everything else is just "how do we make more money or stretch it for the manga`to catch up a bit?"
To be fiar there are two Fat Buus, our fat buu is the weakest buu who suddenly after like a day training became the strongest buu.
Also he power of the creators simply mean what is convenient since i doubt Dende or Kami can resurrect and create entire planets and such or it could just mean Ki level more likely
Fulminator
Member
Im pretty sure fat Buu in the Buu saga (at his introduction) is weaker than kid Buu
It's irrelevant whether or not the power of the creators is changed to be whatever is convenient, it's still a false statement to say that shenron can't affect beings stronger than himself
If I remember right with the Dragon's wish on people stronger then him, the one being affected has to be willing to have whatever's happening to him happen.
With Goku, Shenron had to ask Goku if he wanted to come back after Namek blew up, and Goku said no. Presumably Shenron couldn't wipe 17's memory because he wasn't willing. Or he heard about Buu from 18. Frieza obviously would be willing to be healed, or in a state where he couldn't give acknowledgement that he wanted to be healed..
With Goku, Shenron had to ask Goku if he wanted to come back after Namek blew up, and Goku said no. Presumably Shenron couldn't wipe 17's memory because he wasn't willing. Or he heard about Buu from 18. Frieza obviously would be willing to be healed, or in a state where he couldn't give acknowledgement that he wanted to be healed..
Diablohead
Member
fluff ep, eh.
I think they're talking about the scene when Goku and Vegeta are inside Buu's body and removing all the people he absorbed. Even after they remove Gohan and the others and revert Buu back to regular Super Buu, Goku says they still can't beat him on their own.
Couldn't goku just pester Bulma or Hercule to just buy him a boat after the tournament?
Fulminator
Member
Yeah this might be true, since Goku also refused to be revived after cell died
So maybe he does need permission, but he can still affect them if they grant it
17 seemed to be under the impression everyone gets a wish. Can't recruit someone without Goku lying.
Romars202129
Member
Well, the shit stirrer in me thinks he only said he wanted to wish for a boat, cause Goku would buy that.
I really think theres a heel turn coming
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Are we really going to start the Buu argument again?
In the anime adaptation Kid Buu is 100% stronger than Super Buu. There is tons of dialogue to support this, it's not debatable.
The manga is up to interpretation for multiple reasons due to odd wording & circumstances.
In the anime adaptation Kid Buu is 100% stronger than Super Buu. There is tons of dialogue to support this, it's not debatable.
The manga is up to interpretation for multiple reasons due to odd wording & circumstances.
NeonZ
Member
The issue is that the anime lines that seemingly make Kid Buu stronger than Super Buu also would make it stronger than Super Buu (Gohan absorbed) and at that point the whole plot just doesn't make any sense.
Well, 17's recruitment could have probably been turned into just one episode. There were some fun parts to this episode though, like Goku taking another bomb to King Kai's planet.
Still, I'm really glad they're taking their time with the recruitment, Krillin's episode is still fantastic, and next week's has potential. We don't need to rush to the tournament, and getting to see more focus on underused characters is great.
Still, I'm really glad they're taking their time with the recruitment, Krillin's episode is still fantastic, and next week's has potential. We don't need to rush to the tournament, and getting to see more focus on underused characters is great.
Super follows Kai, which follows the Manga a lot more closely. So I assume when it comes to Buu, Kid Buu < Super Buu.
Icyflamez96
Member
Wow Piccolo was in my dream last night. He was drowning in some alien goop because he was taking these shiny rocks out of the ground in a place where it was forbidden, so the ground in his area just turned to goop and started sucking him in as punishment. These other people flew over to save him, and then went to the demon realm to save his body in the demon realm or something because the was no way he was getting out of the goop, and saving his body in the demon realm was the only way to keep any part of him alive.
Fulminator
Member
???
It was very ambiguous in the anime as to whether kid Buu was stronger than super Buu
Nobody ever outright says it, it's only ever implied, and never very strongly
Even when super Buu returns to kid Buu form either Goku or Vegeta says they can't tell if he's stronger or weaker than before
next arc confirmed
Fulminator
Member
Well I guess kibito Kai says kid Buu is stronger, but it's been established that he has no idea what he's taking about so
NeonZ
Member
He's said to be the "most dangerous" Buu, in both original anime and manga, but it's in a speech from Kaioshin about how he's pure evil and destruction.
However, the anime adds several lines when Goku SSJ2 is facing Kid Buu (a battle that was completely anime-only) where Goku says that Kid Buu is way beyond the previous forms of Buu. I can't check Kai right now, but I think they kept that battle, so those lines would still be there.
Fucking Toei or Funi or or Tori or whoever
LordOfChaos
Member
"Oh no, not a guy with a button!" - two guys with clear FTE feats.
He was but the anime apparently screws that up through combination of translation and fillers
In the manga it says "the goodness he gained from absorption that also reduced his power is now gone"
So I'd say Kid Buu is definitely not the weakest but it's definitely the fact the he gives no fuck that makes him strong. So he got weaker by absorbing nice but relatively weak people. I'd say it's kinda safe to assume that by the point where he's absorbed Gotenks and Gohan, that version of Super Buu must be stronger than the Kid version.
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