I stand corrected that would be a better way to categorize them for sure. This game sure has a good selection of character types
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Dragon's Crown (Vanillaware PS3/PSV) Sorceress Trailer
- Thread starter Takao
- Start date
I stand corrected that would be a better way to categorize them for sure. This game sure has a good selection of character types
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
LOL if you think the artist hates women you are out of your mind.
it's kinda hard for me to process people defending this:
I mean I get people cheering about it and saying they're all for it when they like that kinda thing, but saying that it shouldnt bother other people?.. :|
Probably for the same reason the same people have been arguing against the proportions in Dragon's Crown for two years. Confrontation because they think their view is important.
Made worse by hyperbolic junk like 'misogynistic'.
Actually you are trying to convince me that I either am for or against this art style as a whole. That's called being a fanboy, annoyed by any criticism and thinking in black and white terms. Calling someone a hypocrite for not liking either all or none of character designs in a game is--frankly--batshit insane.
How about the guy who said, "I understand personal tastes," attempt to display any semblance of such? If anything you're being a hypocrite here. Now stop derailing.
I dont think the male characters are as sexualized or revealing in a sexually emphasized way as the female ones, and I think there's even an example in there of a female character who actually looks good to me (archer?), wich makes it all the more sad.
even if it's meant as an exageration of the typical character traits; it still doesnt help me. I dont like it.
LOL because you can't hate women if you present them as merely a sexual object right? RIGHT?! Clearly you love them!
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yup you have no idea about the lead artist at all. Moving along now.
Is this seriously what you're going for? Are you seriously going out there and saying that George Kamitani hates women?
misogynistic design =/= design made by someone who hates women
And that cuts to the heart of the matter. You don't think a walking slab of man meat is sexualized at all, yet a warrior woman with the stature, musculature and weapon to match is. She's not sexualized, she's just the female version of the Conan-type character. Only this time she's not Red Sonja (stick figure body of a model), she has the body to match her role.
Don't think it's possible nor fair to call it either way. 'Imo' this whole thing is such a non issue. Some people will like it and some won't. No one point of view is more correct than the other
Did I say that? No. I said "LOL because you can't hate women if you present them as merely a sexual object right? RIGHT?! Clearly you love them!" That's a general statement on what misogyny can be. Sexual objectification is absolutely a form of misogyny.
Is this art misogynistic? Yes. Is he a misogynist? I don't know. I don't know the person.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Read the post. I swear....
He is depicting an over exaggeration, a common art technique to emphasis a certain trait. The Amazon has powerful legs since you know she is supposed to be stronger than men. The wizard has male beauty, sorceress has the bust that is over exaggerated and that identifies sexiness in most individuals. Dwarf has massive biceps depicting his strength, archer has slim body meant for movement and the Fighter has a large body around meant for wearing his armor.
Over exaggeration of traits identified with the character in question.
He is depicting an over exaggeration, a common art technique to emphasis a certain trait. The Amazon has powerful legs since you know she is supposed to be stronger than men. The wizard has male beauty, sorceress has the bust that is over exaggerated and that identifies sexiness in most individuals. Dwarf has massive biceps depicting his strength, archer has slim body meant for movement and the Fighter has a large body around meant for wearing his armor.
Over exaggeration of traits identified with the character in question.
Totally understandable that you or anyone else doesn't like the art. As in any other game/media. People complained of the oversexualization of Bayonetta too. I like it and not because of it sexually pandering to my wank needs, it's just because it's a caricature. It's just so over exaggerated that I can't help to laugh. It's pure unabashed comedy.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I'll give you that im mostly talking about the sorceress wich is clearly the best example here
and yeah i'll admit it I dont think this:
is as sexually emphasized as this:
guess im wrong :S
read the full description? including the part he bolded wich is what jackson was trying to say?
personally I wouldnt say that someone objectifying women like that means they HATE them
crimsonspider89
Banned
Wow way to use an in game model and a drawing for another.
Gokurakumaru
Banned
Super hot. If the game is decent in single player I'm there day one.
You need to reread what you wrote. Especially the 'you' parts. Glad you're backtracking though. I'll get you to recant the whole thing in a couple minutes.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I read the full description. The first part is the most important and has to line up with the last, which it doesn't in this games and the artist's designs in general.
As for you not understanding the male female thing, read up on haly's post in your anime game thread.
Even funnier is that there are girls with the sorcs body type. Yet you find it offensive :lol
really dude?
I think what's important is what he bolded.
and I read and understood what haly said. The female characters in this game are far less cartoony than the male ones. The male characters are cartoony and exagerated all around (except maybe the wizard a bit, I guess) while the sorceress looks pretty normal feature-wise except for HUGE BOOBS JIGGLING HUGE ASS
Alright, I'm glad we cleared that up. In the Amazon's case it's actually one of the few times where the artist dared to bulk up the warrior woman to suit her class (rather than being a supermodel posing as one which is the norm).
I'm sure for women who are aroused by muscular men the Dwarf would definitely fall into the "sexualized" category. I think what's exacerbating matters is her her pose in the official art. This reminds me of the series of images posing male superheroes in the same ones as female characters. But enough about that, I want to know when this Lord of Swagger gets his gameplay trailer. I suspect he'll be controlling fire, water, and earth elemental spells since the Sorceress seemingly covered wind, lightning, and ice.
Hours Left
Member
Yeah, I don't think the Dwarf is really bursting with sex appeal despite being almost naked. His physique is drawn in a very decidedly unattractive way. (The way his thighs hemorrhage when he walks? No thanks.)I'll give you that im mostly talking about the sorceress wich is clearly the best example here
and yeah i'll admit it I dont think this:
is as sexually emphasized as this:
And this is coming from someone that finds muscular men very attractive.
I dont know, I think that a sexualized man clearly intended to appeal as sexy to people wouldnt look like that dwarf
at least not in a very standard way, wich is where i'd put the sorceress
But enough about that, I want to know when this Lord of Swagger gets his gameplay trailer.
that animation looks weird compared to the others. Way more stiff
...... :|
How... do the men look "comical"? You really think Kamitani and Co. are sitting there, thinking anything like that for the male or female designs?
Beat 'em Ups are known for basically putting the entire story of their characters into their visual design, because that's almost all you had in the arcades: people needed to know who they were picking, and why, based off a few words, an minimal animation.
Pair that with Kamitani's imagination, and you have these designs. Fighter is his version of the Fighter from King of Dragons. Dwarf is Gillius Thunderhead. Amazon is Tyris. Sorceress looks like his own take on the stock Sorceress such as Evilynn from He-Man. Wizard... is pretty much the D&D Arcade Wizard, without a hat. Elf Archer is Deedlit with... more clothes? Odd...
We're seeing the Good and Bad sides of letting an artist run wild and free in this game.
While I don't personally love all the designs individually, I do have to say I love seeing something that looks like them playable. They're so exaggerated, it's like someone took "in action" tweening frames, and tried to bring them to life as characters. Or maybe we get to see a fully-detailed version of all those larger-than-life evils from anime (especially older ones), that are normally so detailed, that parts are obscured in thick shadows.
What? Backtracking? Wow. Take an English class. First you have no idea what the definition of misogyny is, while trying to point out that I don't.
Now you're saying that my inclusion of the word "you" as a generic singular pronoun to point out that a person can be misogynistic and still present a female as a sexual object was aimed at him and not in a general term? M'kay. I specifically said "present", not draw. It's a generalist statement.
Here's another link for you to learn more today. This time it's about grammar, specifically about the pronoun "you" which could also be interchanged with "one". http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/one-versus-you.aspx
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It doesn't work like that man, the "bolded part" is context for ways a person could hate women. Because a characters design is sexy doesn't mean the person who designed it hates women or views them as merely and object. It can go way further in the other direction. George tends to do exaggerated figures for males and females showing strong points and empowerment the characters have.
The sorc is designed as a woman so alluring sexually that even the dead fall in love with her and bend to her will.
Just as the dwarf is designed as a man so fucking rugged his body is like a rock.
The Amazon as a woman who can fight greater or equal to any man and has the body to prove it.
The knight is a big sturdy wall to protect others.
and the archer is a small, nimble and graceful design.
That's why they have the bishounen Fighter and Wizard. We can't really say that he's not sexualized simply because he may not appeal to everyone like the Sorceress.
Oh crap, you're right. Unfortunately that's the only version I have. I got it from an earlier Dragon's Crown thread.
I get what you're saying but Im not wondering why it happens nor will the reasons make me like the design. It's just a choice that I dont dig. I dont like extremely exaggerated bouncing boobs on my videogames under pretty much any excuse. I think there's a way around this that still stays true to the character without having to make a part of the audience uncomfortable or feeling like they're playing a porn game.
SolidSnakex
Member
In what way does this guy look like he was created for comedy
I think it's rather obvious which audience he's geared toward. And that's perfectly fine.
That's an awesome picture, though the Fighter and Wizard are super bishounen. Holy moley.
Gotta love the Dwarf drinking down in the bottom right of the image. Nothing but beard and booze.
How is that not super-cartoony itself? She looks A LOT like Jessica Rabbit or a Tex Avery character to me.
Anyway, there's a big difference between "I don't like this, it's contrary to my personal tastes" and "this is an embarrassment and offensive to women". Some have definitely said the later and it can come off as a bit hyperbolic.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
crimsonspider89
Banned
The Dwarf isn't supposed to be attractive like the Wizard and Fighter who fall into the same category with there facial designs.
I think it's more like "I dont like this, it's contrary to my personal tastes because I personally find it an embarrasment and offensive to women"
that's more or less what im saying
Not really actively offensive or anything like that, but I dont think going this overboard adds anything, that's all.
It's still very much a personal opinion and it's not like im gonna hate anyone that likes it.
Scribblenauts already has tits in it
but do they have bouncing physics
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I don't believe birds natrually bounce
I find anything 'fantasy' embarrassing. Wizards, warlocks, sorcerers & sorceresses. It's all cheesy nonsense. I just let it slide though. I think you need to be careful when you declare something as 'offensive to women'. Women are perfectly capable of articulating their own grievances and don't need men to do it for them.
Yeah, fair enough.
yeah, I only really used it to follow the thread of connecting the two things he was mentioning there
SolidSnakex
Member
I really like the look of the Amazon in that art. It's pretty rare to see a very muscular woman in games. And that's without her legs being in frame. Those look like tree trunks.
They absolutely can, but I still stand by my statement that the designs are sexually objectifying.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's the entire point of her design, it's supposed to be seductive in an exaggerated way.
Nothing immature about knowing that boobies and tits are birds. It's funny to see the game developer put them in and it educates kids or people that don't know that.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
This game looks awesome though I wish there was a quick melee build.