how many convictions are there yearly for rape? It seems incredibly implausible that there could be a conviction in any rape case considering the demands of the law, which in turn makes the law functionally useless (ie. rape isn't punishable by law to any greater extent than non-marital sex).
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Dubai: woman sentenced to 1 y 4 mos for reporting rape (update: pardoned)
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how many convictions are there yearly for rape? It seems incredibly implausible that there could be a conviction in any rape case considering the demands of the law, which in turn makes the law functionally useless (ie. rape isn't punishable by law to any greater extent than non-marital sex).
Rape is punishable by death in those countries because it rejects a woman's honor in one of the worst of ways. They were just not punished for rape because the lack of witnesses they use to prove it in the legal system.
And I have no idea how many convictions there are but I agree with you that the law should be changed. Moreso, I feel the death punishment probably played into making it harder to convict.
Erm, that is a very soft and polite version of what Buddhists have been doing lately. My wife works for a charity organisation that has set up camps to try and help displaced or affected Rohingyas. It's straight up ethnic cleaning. Countless Rohingyas burned alive, beaten, raped, tortured and more. World doesn't seem to care much though because trade agreements with Burma and because the victims have no country, state or proper identity, and worse still they're Muslims...The global double standards in reaction and media coverage are mind numbingly frustrating.
Not that I am advocating invasion or anything else as stupid as that, the majority of the post was shite, but since when does shit like this deserve tolerance?
that's my point. It is so unlikely that anyone would be convicted of rape that the law only exists on paper.
When you realize what intolerance constitutes basically. All it leads to is imperialistic attitudes and practices.
Consumerism will win out after all.
Nope. I will not tolerate these sorts of laws. I will not ever be in a position to change them, but I'll be buggered if I will say they should be tolerated or accepted.
No "should" about it, buddy. You think what you think. You have the freedom to choose.
?
I'm tolerating your point of view. I'm not telling you what you "should" feel about something.
On a side note, I don't think you need the witnesses to prove rape, pretty sure they use similar policies as Western countries when required, including DNA evidence.
There was this case where there was a conviction based on evidence as oppose to witness testimony.
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/businessman-wins-appeal-in-job-seeker-rape-case-1.1129391
There was this case where there was a conviction based on evidence as oppose to witness testimony.
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/businessman-wins-appeal-in-job-seeker-rape-case-1.1129391
That's what I thought. So no discussion of opposing beliefs is to be done in the name of tolerance. Yay! So society progresses how? Tolerance of stupidity and hate is not needed, tolerating that shit is just appeasement.
For fucks sake. False equivalences and apologists ahoy.
Have fun defending bullshit guys.
Very interesting. I got the "witness" claim from the OP. An Australian attorney said that in the second link about their laws. Could that attorney be lying?
Dammit, Man, there is no reason to discuss it because it was already discussed throughout the thread and we have come to our conclusions. I felt there was not much else to say.
I'll admit I don't know a great deal about the law. Or this other side of the story. Mind enlightening me? Seems like you've got more to say beyond just superficially reprimanding us.
Devolution
Member
Disgusting laws are disgusting laws but imprisoning victims of rape is a whole other ball park.
sixteen-bit
Member
How shitty.
Devolution
Member
Women are employed and get sent places. Women are in the military. Women live there.
Second link as in Blaze? That's a site run by lunatic right winger Glenn Beck, so you gotta be careful there, or just out right ignore the site. BBC are covering this now too, that's a far better source.
Sometimes they're even born there.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Women get raped and are convicted and jailed because they were raped. What could the other side of "the story" be?
I'm obviously speaking of women that choose to go there.
You couldn't pay me enough to and I'm a man.
Please reply to my post. So familiar with these laws and the other side of the story as you are, you're in a perfect position to explain exactly why we're so ignorant, and help us correct that.
Wasn't mocking you, but the countries themselves.
Well yes, The Blaze. Didn't know who owned that though nor the leanings of the attorney.
However, why are they jailed for something which could have been non-consentual? The rape offender in question got his time for sex outside marriage and alcohol consumption, not rape. Has the conviction not happened yet and they lock them both up in the meantime? Was it found to be consentual or not enough proof to find it as anything but consentual? Is her sentence to happen regardless if it's confirmed to be rape or not?This is very odd and needs more clarification to me.
Why? Because most of the "men" in charge are misogynistic, sexist assholes. You really think they care what "the law" says?
Well, pre marital sex happens all the time in Dubai. A lot of attractive women out there, and a lot of tourists and ex pats (85% of the population is foreign). Obviously they go out, get drunk, have a good time.
Generally people only get convicted on it on extremely rare occasion or when there's more to it. Eg having sex publicly on a beach (they had to keep face and let the Emirates know the country is still Islamic), another was where the wife of a man is the one who reported him for having sex with another women. Instead of being charged with adultery, they (he and this other women) were both charged with pre marital sex lol. There are really shitty rules and injustices, but they are extreme outliers and generally get sorted anyway.
Bump this thread later down the line and I'm sure she'll have won her appeal in September. Unless there's some strong evidence against her or something.
I don't know, I try to use proof or evidence to show intent if not told directly. I don't feel assumptions are useful.
it is not the "handful of instances that do not work for the system", it's the system that doesn't work. Victims of rape are forced to incriminate themselves in order to report the crime that was committed against them. The system isn't just not perfect, it's abhorrent.
So you're saying the case ended and it was confirmed as consentual by the courts? That's why it's an appeal she's doing? Or is it the case for rape hasn't occured yet?
I'm sure there are many wonderful and interesting people and sights in Dubai, but as long as reporting rape subjects the victim to jail time (thus, protecting rapists), the threat is simply too great to justify travelling there.
ConfusingJazz
Member
But she shouldn't have to appeal. The fact that she does is itself barbaric.
Hahahaha insane convert-GAF never disappoints...should've known that the real victim here, once again, is Islam.
For those making excuses how western women suffer from various expectations that lead to eating disorders :
It just so happens that 99.3% of Egyptian girls said they have been sexually harassed. What do you think the % is for other Muslim countries? Living in peace and harmony means that you accept your lowly place in society unless you were born into a powerful family. And this is for Muslim women who will struggle if they wish to be economically active and what not. Non-Muslim girls and women are worth less than a rock and often considered to be foreign whores without any decency. Abusing them is a non issue if it doesn't draw in international attention.
It just so happens that 99.3% of Egyptian girls said they have been sexually harassed. What do you think the % is for other Muslim countries? Living in peace and harmony means that you accept your lowly place in society unless you were born into a powerful family. And this is for Muslim women who will struggle if they wish to be economically active and what not. Non-Muslim girls and women are worth less than a rock and often considered to be foreign whores without any decency. Abusing them is a non issue if it doesn't draw in international attention.
Always and forever. If only someone would interpret it correctly.
Yes, crime exists everywhere, and I'm sure rapes are very rare in Dubai, but at least in the west we don't condemn the victim of a rape to a prison sentence.
Dubai looks like a very modern city, but it's ultimately still a muslim state with muslim laws, even when those laws are customarily disregarded for westerners in most circumstances. But not all of the time. And then you read in the paper about a westerner facing prison time for breaking the law like being drunk, someone else getting 4 years of jail time for carrying a tiny speck of canabis seed under the sole of his shoe or another man getting a jail sentence for eating a bread roll with poppy seeds in Heathrow before entering Dubai. But convicting a rape victim for extra marital sex takes the cake.
I'd never ever go to a place like that.
Meus Renaissance
Member
The real problem here is not the misconceptions but that some Islamic countries make it impossible to bring forth claims of rape. It is as simple as that
The frustrating thing is that it can change without undermining Shariah: treat rape as a crime of violence so you don't need four witnesses.
The frustrating thing is that it can change without undermining Shariah: treat rape as a crime of violence so you don't need four witnesses.
Vivalaraza
Member
Tragic and ironic considering prostitutes operate quite openly in Dubai hotels.
archnemesis
Member
That's not enough. They also need to decriminalize premarital, extramarital and homosexual sex. It's not the government's concern who people have sex with, as long as it's consensual.
Captain_Spanky
Member
Civilized nations should just pull the fuck out of Dubai until it gets its shit together and feels ready to join the rest of the world. You do not get to benefit from Western tourist money and vast amounts of support and economic wealth if you are going to keep having this horrific, anti-human laws. Stop going, stop giving them money.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Not enough according to secular standards. Using that logic, they should decriminalise alcohol and legalise same sex marriage. The problem is the government themselves believe they answer to a higher power that is opposed to such ideas, and so with their position of authority, matters relating to "social morality" are of particular concern; they can't allow what they can prevent
archnemesis
Member
Yes, belief in a higher power is one of the main issues with the region. As long as they continue to mix church and state affairs there is little hope for improvements.
Egypt has had a unique sexual harrassment/assault problem for decades.
I've always felt that as long as you had people educated in their beliefs these kinds of things could happen even without religion. We had secular arguments against alcohol, even in the west for a time. These standards are based on their morality and honor code which I feel could exist on its own even if a person turned atheist.
AP reporting that she has been pardoned
e: http://www.thelocal.no/20130722/dubai-pardons-jailed-norwegian-rape-victim
e: http://www.thelocal.no/20130722/dubai-pardons-jailed-norwegian-rape-victim
Forsythia
Member
Let's hope this is true. She shouldn't have been convicted in the first place.
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