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Early TRICO test footage (year+ old) -- READ FIRST POST
- Thread starter BlazingDarkness
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BlazingDarkness
Member
anyone wanna set up a 'GAF plays' ICO/SotC thread?
I'm just startin on SotC this evening =D
I'm just startin on SotC this evening =D
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Durante, do you have those pictures in an even higher resolution?
Issun23, thanks for posting your avatar in high res!
Issun23, thanks for posting your avatar in high res!
Ether_Snake
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Oh shit I think I figured out the link between SotC and Ico, it actually makes perfect sense!
Edit: Edited to be more accurate.
It was said originally on the SotC website (maybe even in the manual? too lazy to read), that shadows is merely a visual representation of what lies beyond the mortal world. When we see a shadow in SotC, it is merely a glimpse of the entity that exists beyond the mortal world, the only part we can see of it is the shadow.
So the giant shadow colossus at the end is not a separate entity or all of it, it is the part of Dormin that we CAN see (the shadow). Emon simply "erases" it by casting a spell that absorbs it in the seal, he doesn't get rid of Dormin. He gets rid of its physical presence in our world, probably only temporarily. A sort of weakening spell.
Dormin still lives on, but we don't see it anymore.
Mono is probably now the "host" of Dormin, and the baby is a small fragment of its power.
In Ico, we can imagine that this being much later, every time a horned baby was sacrificed it returned some power to the host of Dormin's (Mono or a descendant of hers). It is probably a process that is occurring again and again over time.
The shadows that engulf the queen simply represent the visual representation of Dormin's power. So since the queen is engulfed in shadows, we can imagine that it means that Dormin is gaining its power back. But the queen says her body is getting old and she needs a new host, and Yorda will be that host.
After the queen is stabbed by Ico, we see Yorda get blasted by lightning, and then all that is left is a shadowy silhouette or Yorda.
At the end, Dormin has transferred host. Like the queen said it was too late for Ico (the sacrifices needed were probably enough before Ico was even brought, but the villagers don't know, it doesn't matter, if they have a horned boy they bring it anyway, it's part of the cycle). This probably happened many times before as the villagers sacrificed horned boys, it allowed Dormin to transfer into new hosts continuously. Maybe if it kept doing that further it would one day return to its full power.
Anyway, the shadowy girl we see that puts Ico in a boat is not really Yorda. It is just the visual representation of Dormin's power.
Yorda wakes up at the end on the beach, her body is no longer made of light. Proof is that during the game the character was never receiving shadows on her, but Ico was. When she wakes up at the beach, she has self-shadows on her, you can see that she has become a normal person.
It's a lot like the end of SotC, where Mono is the host of Dormin, as a regular human being, and the giant colossus is its shadow (the visual representation of it). But Emon was there to weaken Dormin in SotC, leaving only the host behind, powerless. Not so at the end of Ico. But both are separated, Yorda (host of Dormin, like Mono was) living on with Ico, but its "power" remaining at the castle.
Ta dum dum!
So the giant shadow colossus at the end is not a separate entity or all of it, it is the part of Dormin that we CAN see (the shadow). Emon simply "erases" it by casting a spell that absorbs it in the seal, he doesn't get rid of Dormin. He gets rid of its physical presence in our world, probably only temporarily. A sort of weakening spell.
Dormin still lives on, but we don't see it anymore.
Mono is probably now the "host" of Dormin, and the baby is a small fragment of its power.
In Ico, we can imagine that this being much later, every time a horned baby was sacrificed it returned some power to the host of Dormin's (Mono or a descendant of hers). It is probably a process that is occurring again and again over time.
The shadows that engulf the queen simply represent the visual representation of Dormin's power. So since the queen is engulfed in shadows, we can imagine that it means that Dormin is gaining its power back. But the queen says her body is getting old and she needs a new host, and Yorda will be that host.
After the queen is stabbed by Ico, we see Yorda get blasted by lightning, and then all that is left is a shadowy silhouette or Yorda.
At the end, Dormin has transferred host. Like the queen said it was too late for Ico (the sacrifices needed were probably enough before Ico was even brought, but the villagers don't know, it doesn't matter, if they have a horned boy they bring it anyway, it's part of the cycle). This probably happened many times before as the villagers sacrificed horned boys, it allowed Dormin to transfer into new hosts continuously. Maybe if it kept doing that further it would one day return to its full power.
Anyway, the shadowy girl we see that puts Ico in a boat is not really Yorda. It is just the visual representation of Dormin's power.
Yorda wakes up at the end on the beach, her body is no longer made of light. Proof is that during the game the character was never receiving shadows on her, but Ico was. When she wakes up at the beach, she has self-shadows on her, you can see that she has become a normal person.
It's a lot like the end of SotC, where Mono is the host of Dormin, as a regular human being, and the giant colossus is its shadow (the visual representation of it). But Emon was there to weaken Dormin in SotC, leaving only the host behind, powerless. Not so at the end of Ico. But both are separated, Yorda (host of Dormin, like Mono was) living on with Ico, but its "power" remaining at the castle.
Ta dum dum!
Edit: Edited to be more accurate.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
He's right - Ico was running in 512x240 resolution, where ever other horizontal line would be blank, instead of duplicate of previous line. This allowed them to have some pretty insanely fillrate heavy effects, as well as real antialiasing (probably 2x supersampled) in the game.bounchfx said:
freethought
Member
Ether_Snake said:
In all honesty, and I say this as a huge fan of Team Ico (bought Ico on day fucking one) but I think you put more thought into that post than Ueda did into the plots of either game.
Ether_Snake
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Vexidus said:
No I meant that maybe
at the end of SotC, Emon manages to get rid of Dormin's power, and Mono lives on as the "host" of the Dormin entity. But over time, every time a horned boy dies (or is sacrificed, I don't know), Dormin's power might grow (or under the right ritual anyway).
So in ICO, it would be that the queen has the horned boys sacrificed over time, which is used to create a new host, then she takes over the new host, and the cycle continues, becoming stronger and stronger over time, until presumably one day Dormin returns completely or who knows.
So at the end of ICO the queen succeeds (she said it was too late) and the new host is created, but it seems that Yorda manages to "win" her freedom, in the sense that she lives on as a normal person and the power remains separated from her under another entity, unlike the queen which seemed to be both the host and the power together (she was made of light and darkness, which sounds like Dormin).
So it seems like Yorda "won" her freedom in the end, and maybe the whole story comes to a closure in Ico. Like, Ico and Yorda broke the cycle started in SotC where Dormin was resurrected, then split by Emon. Now Dormin is split permanently, by choice or love or whatever
So in ICO, it would be that the queen has the horned boys sacrificed over time, which is used to create a new host, then she takes over the new host, and the cycle continues, becoming stronger and stronger over time, until presumably one day Dormin returns completely or who knows.
So at the end of ICO the queen succeeds (she said it was too late) and the new host is created, but it seems that Yorda manages to "win" her freedom, in the sense that she lives on as a normal person and the power remains separated from her under another entity, unlike the queen which seemed to be both the host and the power together (she was made of light and darkness, which sounds like Dormin).
So it seems like Yorda "won" her freedom in the end, and maybe the whole story comes to a closure in Ico. Like, Ico and Yorda broke the cycle started in SotC where Dormin was resurrected, then split by Emon. Now Dormin is split permanently, by choice or love or whatever
sentry65 said:
Yeah I agree, it's just speculation, I like the fact that not everything is clearly connected or explained, we can imagine how without much effort. It's good this way, the story won't fall apart a la MGS as such
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I can't get the PAL version of SOTC to run at any frame rate resembling playable, and I have a strong-ass PC.
here's my simplistic take on the ICO and SotC stories/endings
SotC:
ICO:
SotC:
Wanderer brings the girl back to life and Dormin resurrects himself via Wanderer's body.
Dormin gets dealt with and sucked into the portal while Wanderer gets transformed into a baby and has horns.
He ends up being the first of the horned breed of humans.
Mono's "cursed fate" is that she raises and takes care of Wanderer at the end and that's why she was originally sacrificed. The irony is her death is what ended up causing the events in SotC in the first place
Dormin gets dealt with and sucked into the portal while Wanderer gets transformed into a baby and has horns.
He ends up being the first of the horned breed of humans.
Mono's "cursed fate" is that she raises and takes care of Wanderer at the end and that's why she was originally sacrificed. The irony is her death is what ended up causing the events in SotC in the first place
ICO:
ICO is a descendant of Wanderer
You and Yorda both die.
You meet up on the beach in the afterlife which is pretty much an alternate reality of normal life
The Queen is just another character and the village people sacrifice horned people because they are said to be cursed and it keeps the queen from bothering them.
You and Yorda both die.
You meet up on the beach in the afterlife which is pretty much an alternate reality of normal life
The Queen is just another character and the village people sacrifice horned people because they are said to be cursed and it keeps the queen from bothering them.
Ether_Snake
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No way that Ico and Yorda dies. Yorda's shadowy form puts him in a boat and sends him away, and when he wakes up the boat is there. And like I mentioned, in the game Yorda is made of light, like the queen (engulfed in shadows), but when she wakes up on the beach she is no longer a light being, she is a normal human
that's your interpretation
mine is just as plausible
mine is just as plausible
IMO Yorda died and thus was a shadowy figure. She put ICO on the boat (she says "goodbye" just as she sends him off), but he was either already dead or was about to die.
Yorda couldn't leave the castle until it was fully destroyed, or she probably would have gotten on the boat with him...
When the boat arrived on the beach, ICO woke up on the "other side" and Yorda looked normal because he had also died
IMO he didn't save her from the "shadow world"
He joined her in it. The Queen said it was too late in that Yorda was already dead.
Yorda couldn't leave the castle until it was fully destroyed, or she probably would have gotten on the boat with him...
When the boat arrived on the beach, ICO woke up on the "other side" and Yorda looked normal because he had also died
IMO he didn't save her from the "shadow world"
He joined her in it. The Queen said it was too late in that Yorda was already dead.
Callibretto
Member
with all the fans speculating in search for the 'truth'. I wonder if there really is a 'truth'. I mean, did Ueda really think this connection between these two games that make sense. or did he just take something here and there just to give it a nice unifying theme in his games.
Ether_Snake
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Callibretto said:
He confirmed SotC is set in the Ico world, and that
Wander is the first horned-human
!!!Btw guys, I have GREAT NEWS!!!!.
I visit a CG forum, and there's a guy there who works at Santa Monica. Well he just said that he originally saw this exact trailer in fall 2007 (along with a Heavy Rain trailer).
This confirms what I thought; that this trailer is nearly two years old.
Prepare. For your mind. To be fucking blown at E3!
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
That's crazy but not surprising. These things are put together way ahead of time in most cases. Can't wait to see it now.
Ether_Snake
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They ran their hiring campaign in early 2008 if I recall. That means they were probably about to enter full production, meaning: producing all the maps, characters, etc. Basically, the scope of the game was probably pretty clear by then. So I expect early 2010 release.
I would say it is in its third year, having started in early 2006.
I would say it is in its third year, having started in early 2006.
here's the complete scripts for ICO and SotC
http://rca.vmk.zhdk.ch/mirrors/thegia/sites/www.thegia.com/news/0203/n31b.html
http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=112027&rid=104297
http://rca.vmk.zhdk.ch/mirrors/thegia/sites/www.thegia.com/news/0203/n31b.html
http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=112027&rid=104297
Ether_Snake
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sentry65 said:
Ha, that's much better!
Forget it... you're too late.
This body will soon perish...
Yorda will be revived as my successor.
That is Yorda's fate... she will be the receptacle for my soul, so to speak.
When she awakes, her memories of you will have vanished.
Now put the sword down and leave this place.
Yorda would have wanted that, too.
The queen basically just says that Yorda will wake up with no memories of him. So basically, even when on the beach, it is likely that she has the queen's "soul" in her.
This body will soon perish...
Yorda will be revived as my successor.
That is Yorda's fate... she will be the receptacle for my soul, so to speak.
When she awakes, her memories of you will have vanished.
Now put the sword down and leave this place.
Yorda would have wanted that, too.
The queen basically just says that Yorda will wake up with no memories of him. So basically, even when on the beach, it is likely that she has the queen's "soul" in her.
Or something, I don't know, :lol
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
ba-dum tishStitch said:
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I really, REALLY hope everything about the game's art stays the same, except for the boy being fixed up a bit. All Team ICO has to do is improve the graphics and I'd be happy.
freethought
Member
Stitch said:
Damn, you're one stone cold son of a bitch.
Ether_Snake
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sentry65 said:
She says Yorda can never leave the castle even if he kills her (the queen). I don't know, from the way the queen was talking it was as if everything went according to plan anyway. She never tried to kill Ico until the end, and she didn't try very hard. Heck the only thing she did was close the gates and scold Yorda for messing around with him.
It's possible that indeed she failed since the shadowed Yorda says "goodbye" and saves Ico, but then there is a human Yorda on the beach, so maybe it became two different things.
It's possible that indeed she failed since the shadowed Yorda says "goodbye" and saves Ico, but then there is a human Yorda on the beach, so maybe it became two different things.
Who knows!
I want Trico now damnit.
Ether_Snake
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Just re-read the article on Playstation Lifestyle and they say that this being early footage, the character we see and the scenario might not be like that at all in the final game.
I get the feeling it might be because indeed, a lot may have changed since.
I get the feeling it might be because indeed, a lot may have changed since.
Ether_Snake said:
I think Ueda will think of most of the design factors of the characters as accidental, as not being too important compared to the general tone and design he has laid down in that trailer. The focus will probably still be on Boy and Baby Griff's relationship and adventuring.
SolidSnakex
Member
The creatures design seems final (or close to it). It's much too detailed to just be a placeholder design like the kid.
Ether_Snake
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I wouldn't be surprised actually if it wasn't a young kid.
It really depends on how much input Sony gave his team, and how receptive Ueda is to it. From what I've read of him, he is a down-to-earth developer, not a big ego at all, so if Sony said that a very young character might not work as well as a someone more of the age of Wander, or that the character should have a weapon of some sort, or anything like that, for marketing reasons, he would agree to this. This is actually important for a developer, we make games that are products first and foremost, with millions of dollars handed to us out of trust, but if you are talented then your publishing partner will also seek to let you do your work without too much interference. This being Sony, I'm sure they don't bother Team Ico much with this, but at the same time, Ueda and co. are very talented devs, and this mean they can still make a game that is as true to their vision as ever even with requests as those from Sony.
This is really what defines a talented developer; being able to create incredible games even with technical and marketing constraints. There is probably a lot we don't know about Sony's influence on what SotC turned out to be, but that simply shows that the team is talented because to us it was completely transparent.
So even if the final game is different from the trailer, I hope everyone here will understand that in the end this is no different than the evolution Ico and SotC went through, regardless of the changes, it is still Team Ico's game.
It really depends on how much input Sony gave his team, and how receptive Ueda is to it. From what I've read of him, he is a down-to-earth developer, not a big ego at all, so if Sony said that a very young character might not work as well as a someone more of the age of Wander, or that the character should have a weapon of some sort, or anything like that, for marketing reasons, he would agree to this. This is actually important for a developer, we make games that are products first and foremost, with millions of dollars handed to us out of trust, but if you are talented then your publishing partner will also seek to let you do your work without too much interference. This being Sony, I'm sure they don't bother Team Ico much with this, but at the same time, Ueda and co. are very talented devs, and this mean they can still make a game that is as true to their vision as ever even with requests as those from Sony.
This is really what defines a talented developer; being able to create incredible games even with technical and marketing constraints. There is probably a lot we don't know about Sony's influence on what SotC turned out to be, but that simply shows that the team is talented because to us it was completely transparent.
So even if the final game is different from the trailer, I hope everyone here will understand that in the end this is no different than the evolution Ico and SotC went through, regardless of the changes, it is still Team Ico's game.
Callibretto
Member
SolidSnakex said:
I think the feather will definitely be present, but there might be changes like how big/small the beak is, beak color, horns, eyes, wings, I think they may even change the tail completely. but the feather will stay.
Yoboman
Member
I thought it looked very incomplete. Perhaps the conceptual design is roughly there, but I don't think it's close to complete at all. In fact I would very, very much doubt something so complex and integral to the game wouldn't go through many many iterations. The creature looks quite rough in the video as it isSolidSnakex said:
Callibretto
Member
Ether_Snake said:
I never got the impression that Sony like to 'request' these kind of changes from developer though.
well. I guess Uncharted and Lair going for Teen rating might be one. You can't shoot corpses to move in Uncharted (although you can step on them :lol ). and in Lair, there supposed to be beheaded Rhino's head that you can grab and throw, but supposedly that was cut to get Teen rating.
don't know if it's 'requests' by Sony or ND and Factor 5 decision.
Ether_Snake
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Yes definitly it must look different than it did two years ago
But in the end it will only be an improvement. What was important was probably figuring out if they could give it a life-like feeling. Now, the video is probably not gameplay, but in the end being able to have these two really believable characters in an interactive manner will be the big challenge.
I'm sure everything will look quite different actually. But the idea will be the same.
Well "request" is actually a strong word. What I meant was more, discussions, and objectives.
I'm sure Sony told Team Ico that their next game after Ico should be a bit more mature, a bit more violent or action-oriented, and it was. Now again you see something very much light-hearted like Ico, but with a bit of violence (you can see the creature has been wounded and such). But I wouldn't be surprised if Sony discussed the possibility of having an older character, or a more mature presentation, something closer to SotC than Ico in visual representation.
But in the end it will only be an improvement. What was important was probably figuring out if they could give it a life-like feeling. Now, the video is probably not gameplay, but in the end being able to have these two really believable characters in an interactive manner will be the big challenge.
I'm sure everything will look quite different actually. But the idea will be the same.
Callibretto said:
Well "request" is actually a strong word. What I meant was more, discussions, and objectives.
I'm sure Sony told Team Ico that their next game after Ico should be a bit more mature, a bit more violent or action-oriented, and it was. Now again you see something very much light-hearted like Ico, but with a bit of violence (you can see the creature has been wounded and such). But I wouldn't be surprised if Sony discussed the possibility of having an older character, or a more mature presentation, something closer to SotC than Ico in visual representation.
Callibretto
Member
Ether_Snake said:
I guess so, but like you said, a good developer know how to make anything works as long as they have the vision for it.
anyway, just for curiosity, by 'Sony', are we talking about Shuhei Yoshida? looks like he's the guy in charge of first party games.
Ether_Snake
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Nah, no idea who it would be pass through, but it would be more people than that, a mix of marketing, management, Ueda, the producer (not sure who it is), etc., discussing the objectives they have for the game, etc.
But then again this could have been agreed on before the prototype video, but usually there is a reviewing process at that point before the project is finally greenlit and funds are attributed to hire more people.
Also, it's very likely that Team Ico themselves might have wanted to make changes to the game too as it went forward, refining their vision.
We'll see at E3! I hope
But then again this could have been agreed on before the prototype video, but usually there is a reviewing process at that point before the project is finally greenlit and funds are attributed to hire more people.
Also, it's very likely that Team Ico themselves might have wanted to make changes to the game too as it went forward, refining their vision.
We'll see at E3! I hope
SolidSnakex
Member
Speaking of Yoshida, here's an interesting thing about him and Ueda
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=194535
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=194535
Ether_Snake
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I remember they said that for SotC, they received like 500 applications, and hired two or three people They didn't want a bigger team, and retained only the really talented ones.
They didn't want a bigger team, and retained only the really talented ones.- Status