checkpoints and health regen are what I usually associate with "accessibility" in games.
I wouldn't mind a checkpoint (not bonfire) before a boss fight, but that would ruin all the dread and fear which were half of the fights, you had to control yourself...
make it optional difficulty setting, Ninja Dog something.
Didn't the director hint at difficulty settings in some interview or did that end up being a translation error?
But when the first details of Dark Souls emerged it wasn't "We're going to make it accessible." It was "This shit is hardcore, you gonna die motherfuckaaaa."
Hoo boy, I don't like the sound of that quote. A big part of the beauty of the Souls games is the mystery of it all. I like having to figure out stuff that's not easy to understand, it makes me feel accomplished when I do. It's what sets these games apart from shallow drek like Skyrim. Change this and you run a great risk if losing fans that made the series big.
To a degree, yes. One of the greatest things about the game is the constant feeling of having to explore a highly hostile land that well and truly feels dangerous and foreign. The game, and by extension the world, being complex and obfuscated contributes wonderfully to this mood, because it transfers the feeling of the unknown directly to the player.
This is one of the subtle things that so many other developers completely fail to grasp. They think they're "being helpful" by explaining everything, hence shitty GPS systems with 10,000 icons that explain everything and ruin all sense of discovery, fast travel that kills level design for the sake of instant gratification, and ham-fisted stories shoved in your face because they really want every single person to understand it.
Of course, I'm in no way implying that Dark Souls II is going to have shitty GPS/tutorials/story because this blurb said it was going to be accessible, but it suffices to say the lack of accessibility is actually a good thing in the game, because it works wonderfully in contributing to the overall feeling of venturing into a deep unkown that both your character and you have to actively work toward understanding.
To a degree, yes. One of the greatest things about the game is the constant feeling of having to explore a highly hostile land that well and truly feels dangerous and foreign. The game, and by extension the world, being complex and obfuscated contributes wonderfully to this mood, because it transfers the feeling of the unknown directly to the player.
This is one of the subtle things that so many other developers completely fail to grasp. They think they're "being helpful" by explaining everything, hence shitty GPS systems with 10,000 icons that explain everything and ruin all sense of discovery, fast travel that kills level design for the sake of instant gratification, and ham-fisted stories shoved in your face because they really want every single person to understand it.
Of course, I'm in no way implying that Dark Souls II is going to have shitty GPS/tutorials/story because this blurb said it was going to be accessible, but it suffices to say the lack of accessibility is actually a good thing in the game, because it works wonderfully in contributing to the overall feeling of venturing into a deep unkown that both your character and you have to actively work toward understanding.
Adding onto this, I can definitely see where people are coming from when they say that some of this game is far too obtuse -- and it's true, there are some things in this game that have no hint of even existing, like
Gwyndolin and Darkstalker Kaathe
. Those people might argue that if you have to look up this information online, what's the point? And yet, I think even that has a kind of magic to it that simply explaining it in-game wouldn't -- you're essentially becoming a part of a world of players who are all struggling against the game to uncover its secrets, which is precisely what Dark Souls is all about. And because the information you obtain is player-generated, you never know if you have the full story, which really lends to that feeling of mystique.
Now, with that said, I don't think that information needed in progressing in the main quest should be all that hidden. If the game didn't even hint at how the
invisible paths in the Crystal Caverns worked
, or if the Orange Charred Ring in
Lost Izalith
were hidden somewhere and I had no idea it existed -- I think I would complain about that, because there, progression in the main level design would actively conflict with my lack of knowledge over completely hidden information. That's like that thing in Simon's Quest where you have to crouch against the wall. Generally, though, Dark Souls gives you just what you need. The Orange Charred Ring drops right in front of you after you
kill the Centipede Demon
, and the Skull Lantern can be found right when
Patches kicks you into the pit
. The hidden stuff, like covenants, are not integral to playing the game, and the players figure it out together.
Their descriptions of how they intend to mould Dark Souls II into a more approachable form seem reasonable. But Shibuya admits that their approach will be influenced by their individual characters. I personally am the sort of person who likes to be more direct than subtle, he tells us. [Dark Souls II] will be more straightforward and more understandable.
Accessibility doesn't simply mean making a game easier. Simple steps like explaining menu options and having a better translation makes the game accessible without touching the difficulty.
To those who keep saying "don't be ridiculous...they won't ruin their own serie" I'll say that videogame history is full of series that started wonderfully until someone decided to make it more this or that (ALWAYS in the same direction: accessibility....cause they think accessibility=sales...in DS's case, i am pretty sure they are wrong). The fact that they changed the director is highly worrying.
And the director already said that the game would be less obscure and less mysterious...it s obviously not just an addition of an easy mode.
Again: so many series were ruined by directors that tried too hard to prove they are better than the one who created the serie in the first place.
Accessibility doesn't simply mean making a game easier. Simple steps like explaining menu options and having a better translation makes the game accessible without touching the difficulty.
This quote demonstrates a real lack of understanding about why the series has been so successful. The game is direct AND subtle. The two are not always opposed.
An eternal battle rages at the heart of Dark Souls II. On one side stands the stern force of challenge, the very soul of the Souls series. It has inspired thousands of fans to hack their way through two of the most demanding and rewarding games of an era, fans who expect at least the same test on the next go around. On the other side is the bright promise of accessibility. And why not? Why shouldnt FromSoftware and Namco Bandai open Souls up to a wider audience when it could otherwise be in danger of becoming stuck in a cult cul-de-sac?
Adding onto this, I can definitely see where people are coming from when they say that some of this game is far too obtuse -- and it's true, there are some things in this game that have no hint of even existing, like
Gwyndolin and Darkstalker Kaathe
. Those people might argue that if you have to look up this information online, what's the point? And yet, I think even that has a kind of magic to it that simply explaining it in-game wouldn't -- you're essentially becoming a part of a world of players who are all struggling against the game to uncover its secrets, which is precisely what Dark Souls is all about. And because the information you obtain is player-generated, you never know if you have the full story, which really lends to that feeling of mystique.
Now, with that said, I don't think that information needed in progressing in the main quest should be all that hidden. If the game didn't even hint at how the
invisible paths in the Crystal Caverns worked
, or if the Orange Charred Ring in
Lost Izalith
were hidden somewhere and I had no idea it existed -- I think I would complain about that, because there, progression in the main level design would actively conflict with my lack of knowledge over completely hidden information. That's like that thing in Simon's Quest where you have to crouch against the wall. Generally, though, Dark Souls gives you just what you need. The Orange Charred Ring drops right in front of you after you
kill the Centipede Demon
, and the Skull Lantern can be found right when
Patches kicks you into the pit
. The hidden stuff, like covenants, are not integral to playing the game, and the players figure it out together.
I was hyped for DSII, but, now I'm no longer interested. I've seen it enough times, I have, the game is going to be Skyrim 2.0. I'm pissed as hell. I knew it would be bad, I knew From Software would cave in.
I'm cautious too, but some of the reactions to this seem a little premature. FROM talked about making Dark Souls more accessible before it came out, and they made good on those promises without "selling out."
Was bound to happen. I just hope it retains it's 'soul' when all is said and done. I will trust them for now not to butcher it and ruin what makes it what it is.
I was hyped for DSII, but, now I'm no longer interested. I've seen it enough times, I have, the game is going to be Skyrim 2.0. I'm pissed as hell. I knew it would be bad, I knew From Software would cave in.
DARK SOULS RETROACTIVELY DUMBED DOWN AND RUINED FOREVER CONFIRMED.
I was hyped for DSII, but, now I'm no longer interested. I've seen it enough times, I have, the game is going to be Skyrim 2.0. I'm pissed as hell. I knew it would be bad, I knew From Software would cave in.
Would love to know if Miyazaki is in any way involved with the making of Dark Souls II. I'm afraid these two don't understand what made Demons Souls and Dark Souls what it is today.
Would love to know if Miyazaki is in any way involved with the making of Dark Souls II. I'm afraid these two don't understand what made Demons Souls and Dark Souls what it is today.
I was hyped for DSII, but, now I'm no longer interested. I've seen it enough times, I have, the game is going to be Skyrim 2.0. I'm pissed as hell. I knew it would be bad, I knew From Software would cave in.
Would love to know if Miyazaki is in any way involved with the making of Dark Souls II. I'm afraid these two don't understand what made Demons Souls and Dark Souls what it is today.
He's supervising, I imagine he'll still have a lot of input in where to take the series, but I'll imagine since it's the same team it won't be such a major change.
This interview doesn't make rooting for the new guys easy, though.
Honestly I think Skyrim is a shitty game and would probably not even consider purchasing a Souls game made in that mold, but I'm willing to wait for some game play videos and fan impressions before I start overreacting.
Fans of Demon/Dark Souls have every reason to worry. Words and terms thrown out by publishers and developers like "accessibility", "expanding the audience", "We want___ audience" and "We want hardcore gamers and new fans to enjoy it" are well known code words for casualization and dumbing down in this day and age. And the fact that the dev team are look at TES (Skyrim in particular, probably) as something to aspire to only worsen fears.
Yup. Has there been ANY game that turned out well after this kind of talk was thrown about? I'm still very excited but I kind of fear for the game as well.
can anyone point me to a series that had an entry that became "more accessible" that in turn then got a higher metacritic/was generally accepted as a better game by vets of the series?
because this "accessibly" nonsense usual means "we want to sell more so we are going to make a a dumbed down version of this game and hope it sells better"
I was trying to play some dark souls last night and got fucking lost as hell after not playing it since launch. Me and a friend jsut said fuck it, and we decided we are going play demons again. I like the open world with branching paths, but god damn it fucking sucks dick in dark souls.
Fans of Demon/Dark Souls have every reason to worry. Words and terms thrown out by publishers and developers like "accessibility", "expanding the audience", "We want___ audience" and "We want hardcore gamers and new fans to enjoy it" are well known code words for casualization and dumbing down in this day and age. And the fact that the dev team are look at TES (Skyrim in particular, probably) as something to aspire to only worsen fears.
That's perfectly fine. But, I didn't, and thought it was one of the worst games I've ever purchased (this isn't hyperbole, I almost never buy a game that I don't like).
More direct and understandable could mean many things. Could mean less flavour text world lore building and more cutscene/dialogue world building. Could mean unexplained opaque elements like poise, upgrade paths, weapon stats or covenant mechanics will be explained better by the game itself instead of a community-made wiki.
Could be everything hardcore wiki people are hoping it's not (making their efforts to build a comprehensive wiki that's necessary to explain mechanics together with other people useless).
All that said, I don't think From is even capable of making a dumb handholding overtutorialised game the likes of we're used to with mainstream-oriented focus grouped game design, so I wouldn't worry so much, guys.
Accessibility means easier to get into, not easy. Street Fighter is accessible, you pick a character and push the buttons and stuff happens. Street Fighter is also incredibly difficult and layered, but if you want to put the time into learning it the game doesn't have any obstacles for you. It tells you what the buttons do. It tells you what the moves are. Some fighting games even have practice modes that help you figure out what combos into what.
Something being "accessible" has practically no bearing on its difficulty. There are things in Dark Souls that could absolutely stand to be more accessible - covenants, for example, or summoning, or the what the heck "raw" means while enhancing weapons. The menu system in general could be a whole lot less obtuse without eating away at the oppressive and mysterious nature of the game. I don't want the gameplay to be dumbed down, but change is also welcome. I can also speak from experience when I say: there is absolutely nothing immersive or atmospheric about being told something extremely vague by an NPC and then being shown JOIN COVENANT YES/NO.
The "straightforward and understandable" quote in terms of story is the only thing that has me raising an eyebrow so far. The lack of overt narrative in Dark Souls is partially what made it so awesome, and also why I prefer it to Demon's Souls (even though I love both of them). But everyone leaping to conclusions about GPS waypoints, fast travel, turret sequences, whatever - hold yer horses. Like I said earlier, maybe wait until we have actual information outside of a magazine blurb to flip the fuck out and dig a grave for the franchise.
Also, FROM doesn't always make good games, but this is the studio responsible for Chromehounds, the Souls series, Armored Core, and King's Field. Yo... they don't do easy.
Fans of Demon/Dark Souls have every reason to worry. Words and terms thrown out by publishers and developers like "accessibility", "expanding the audience", "We want___ audience" and "We want hardcore gamers and new fans to enjoy it" are well known code words for casualization and dumbing down in this day and age. And the fact that the dev team are look at TES (Skyrim in particular, probably) as something to aspire to only worsen fears.
To be fair, the TES comparison is made by the EDGE guys, not FROM.
But Shibuya admits that their approach will be influenced by their individual characters. I personally am the sort of person who likes to be more direct than subtle, he tells us. [Dark Souls II] will be more straightforward and more understandable. We sympathise if that sort of statement concerns you, but at the same time, we can surely agree that we would all like to see Dark Souls attain as great a presence as The Elder Scrolls.
