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EDGE: Respawn on Titanfall and breaking free of CoD's ‘spawn-die-spawn-die loop

Dabanton

Member
Just saw this pop up on my FB feed pretty good read. Especially for those gaffers who still seem to think Titanfall is just "Cod with Mechs"

Word spread fast. Titanfall was demoed at August’s Gamescom show and, by day two, players were queuing for up to eight hours for a single 15-minute game, because once you play it you want to tell people about it. Titanfall is a mechanised and rocket-propelled anecdote generator, a meme with an Xbox One controller, a six-on-six multiplayer shootout where every moment is worth recounting, from the time you racked up a 20-man killing streak fighting alongside your own AI-controlled mecha to the moment an enemy Titan gunned down your armoured suit and you ejected straight onto the killer’s hull. Titanfall’s systems seem purpose-built to make stories happen.

“There were three core mechanics we wanted,” explains producer Drew McCoy. “Mobility, survivability and scale. Once the Titans started to come in you naturally started to get this longer lifespan, and even if you get destroyed you can eject and keep living. A lot can happen in a single life.”

“Because you move so fast, it’s not about who [aims quickest]; it’s about who outmanoeuvres the other. I think it’s a response to the fact that we’re all getting older and our reaction times aren’t what they used to be. I want to hop into a game and not feel like every 14-year-old is going to dominate me. I want a fighting chance and I don’t want to feel I’m screwed if I didn’t get in on the first week.”

Such survivability should prohibit large bodycounts but Titanfall’s maps are target-rich environments, populated by dozens of AI soldiers run by Microsoft’s dedicated servers. All of them put up a decent enough fight to be trouble, but they’re thick and flimsy enough to be worth fewer points than a Pilot or Titan kill. “AI grunts keep that quick time-to-kill feedback loop,” says McCoy. “When you can kill three guys in eight seconds, that’s good – but when you’re on the other side of that, it’s not. If you run into a group of AI [units] you can take them out, and you still have that gameplay loop of doing things, achieving things, killing people.”
Respawn rejects the word ‘bot’ for its AI units, but like all bots, Titanfall’s grunts are terrible in concept – a legion of semi-coordinated goons – except here, they work so well that Titanfall wouldn’t be Titanfall without them. “They’re not bots,” says McCoy. “They’re not meant as a human replacement. They’re a different class of people. Pilots are these super-awesome soldiers that have the gear to do double jumps, the weapons to take down Titans, but the AI are the low-level guys that are always on the ground – they’re not double-jumping and they’re really weak, but the purpose they serve design-wise is multifaceted. They show new players where to go. And once they start fighting, they’re usually fighting other AI because all the experienced players are fighting on walls and rooftops. New players start getting kills on AI, when usually in multiplayer games they’re getting completely whacked.”

Mobility, survivability and scale are Respawn’s buzzwords but players leaving EA’s booth at Gamescom were more inclined to mention how the game feels. Titanfall doesn’t play like other modern shooters; when asked for influences McCoy mentions Quake, Tribes, Doom and Street Fighter.

Doom is actually where some of the Titan combat came from. That dance you did, strafing back-and-forth with rocket launchers; you felt like you could actually evade their fire. Titans can fire a slow [missile barrage] by holding the trigger, and that’s actually a fighting game inspiration. Like in Street Fighter, if you throw a fireball you can force your opponent to jump over them and do another move to take them out.”

This is zoning in an FPS. While Pilots zip around with their sticky boots and jetpacks, Titans play a slower, more tactical game of move and counter-move. “Maybe you’re really good at moving around the level, timing your Vortex to block their fire then dashing at a Titan, reading your opponent’s tells. It feels like a fighting game,” says McCoy.

It feels different and new, the way Modern Warfare felt in 2007 and no major console shooter has felt since. Our story goes like this: we spawn and rush forward, moving ahead of the AI grunts and breaking off from our five teammates to climb the tower in the centre of the Angel City map. This is a mission torn from the campaign, a plot-driven deathmatch where the enemies are real players, and from that vantage point we can pick off grunts two or three at a time while firing on Pilots still too attached to the ground beneath their feet.

Full article here.

It's great to hear them discuss the actual feel of the game finally got to play this at the EG show and it feels great to control.
 
change?

The lumpenproletarier do not like change.

Speakin seriously though, it is good to hear their inspiration for the game design. It does admittedly loko fresh.

All the need to do is toss out all XP mechanics and hit markers and make ADS nothing like COD ADS.
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
Mobility, survivability and scale are Respawn’s buzzwords but players leaving EA’s booth at Gamescom were more inclined to mention how the game feels. Titanfall doesn’t play like other modern shooters; when asked for influences McCoy mentions Quake, Tribes, Doom and Street Fighter.

I like that they're trying to go for the arena FPS feel (even if it is unlikely they'll follow through with this because evidence seems to indicate this is not what the kids want), but what the fuck is with this? I'm desperately trying to grasp at what they could mean by this, are you going to have to go into a practice mode and figure out the active frames for your goddamn rocket launchers?

Are the titan
mechs
going to have a complex melee system? Perhaps they mean that they're going for the competitive scene that the game has? But then if that's the case why not just leave it at Quake, hell why not mention counter strike instead? Could they possibly mean that the game has similarities to the arcade feel of Street Fighter? But then, why not just mention Counter Strike, which is basically an arcade game?

I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WOULD MENTION STREET FIGHTER

I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE THROW OUT INFLUENCES LIKE THIS

MY MIND IS SHATTERING
 
I like that they're trying to go for the arena FPS feel (even if it is unlikely they'll follow through with this because evidence seems to indicate this is not what the kids want), but what the fuck is with this? I'm desperately trying to grasp at what they could mean by this, are you going to have to go into a practice mode and figure out the active frames for your goddamn rocket launchers?

Are the titan
mechs
going to have a complex melee system? Perhaps they mean that they're going for the competitive scene that the game has? But then if that's the case why not just leave it at Quake, hell why not mention counter strike instead? Could they possibly mean that the game has similarities to the arcade feel of Street Fighter? But then, why not just mention Counter Strike, which is basically an arcade game?

I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WOULD MENTION STREET FIGHTER

I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE THROW OUT INFLUENCES LIKE THIS

MY MIND IS SHATTERING

If only the game had the over the top, fun personality and tone of Street Fighter. Pilot's screaming and shouting attacks, posing while driving mechs and announcing stuff like, "GIGA DRILL BREAKER!!!"

Too bad COD kiddies think that is TEH GHEY!
 

sonicmj1

Member
I like that they're trying to go for the arena FPS feel (even if it is unlikely they'll follow through with this because evidence seems to indicate this is not what the kids want), but what the fuck is with this? I'm desperately trying to grasp at what they could mean by this, are you going to have to go into a practice mode and figure out the active frames for your goddamn rocket launchers?

Are the titan
mechs
going to have a complex melee system? Perhaps they mean that they're going for the competitive scene that the game has? But then if that's the case why not just leave it at Quake, hell why not mention counter strike instead? Could they possibly mean that the game has similarities to the arcade feel of Street Fighter? But then, why not just mention Counter Strike, which is basically an arcade game?

I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WOULD MENTION STREET FIGHTER

I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE THROW OUT INFLUENCES LIKE THIS

MY MIND IS SHATTERING

... Did you read the OP? He explains his reasoning right there.

“Doom is actually where some of the Titan combat came from. That dance you did, strafing back-and-forth with rocket launchers; you felt like you could actually evade their fire. Titans can fire a slow [missile barrage] by holding the trigger, and that’s actually a fighting game inspiration. Like in Street Fighter, if you throw a fireball you can force your opponent to jump over them and do another move to take them out.”

This is zoning in an FPS. While Pilots zip around with their sticky boots and jetpacks, Titans play a slower, more tactical game of move and counter-move. “Maybe you’re really good at moving around the level, timing your Vortex to block their fire then dashing at a Titan, reading your opponent’s tells. It feels like a fighting game,” says McCoy.
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
... Did you read the OP? He explains his reasoning right there.

I did but that zoning and emphasis of movement and map knowledge is existent in other FPS's as well, like counter strike and TRIBES which they actually mentioned. So really mentioning street fighter comes off as peculiar.
 

Dabanton

Member
I like that they're trying to go for the arena FPS feel (even if it is unlikely they'll follow through with this because evidence seems to indicate this is not what the kids want), but what the fuck is with this? I'm desperately trying to grasp at what they could mean by this, are you going to have to go into a practice mode and figure out the active frames for your goddamn rocket launchers?

Are the titan
mechs
going to have a complex melee system? Perhaps they mean that they're going for the competitive scene that the game has? But then if that's the case why not just leave it at Quake, hell why not mention counter strike instead? Could they possibly mean that the game has similarities to the arcade feel of Street Fighter? But then, why not just mention Counter Strike, which is basically an arcade game?

I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WOULD MENTION STREET FIGHTER

I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE THROW OUT INFLUENCES LIKE THIS

MY MIND IS SHATTERING

They explain it in the article

Titans can fire a slow [missile barrage] by holding the trigger, and that’s actually a fighting game inspiration. Like in Street Fighter, if you throw a fireball you can force your opponent to jump over them and do another move to take them out.”

So it's more about putting your opponent on the back foot. Like how a fireball would make your opponent either have to fireball back themselves or jump over your projectile.

Either way they would no longer be attacking you.
 

geordiemp

Member
I guess the longevity of it as a good multiplayer game will depend on the fun factor and how balanced it is as a game.

The old IW team, now Respawn, gave us OMA and Danger close in MW2 that made it a noob tube and explosive unbalanced game.

So, it remains to be seen if Titanfall has serious legs or whether the Live community will find an overpowered class / tactic that will make many loose interest. We shall see.

Might get it on 360, but not buying a ONE even though I like the look of this game
 

sonicmj1

Member
I did but that zoning and emphasis of movement and map knowledge is existent in other FPS's as well, like counter strike and TRIBES which they actually mentioned. So really mentioning street fighter comes off as peculiar.

FPS zoning is very different from fighting game zoning. He was describing something more like the latter, where both combatants are out in the open and countering each other's attacks using their own abilities. You're not shooting down grenades in CS, but in Titanfall if you prepare right you can reflect an opponent's barrage to gain the initiative, the same way that Rose can reflect Sagat's tiger shots.

Populating the map with dumb AI for people to feed on seems both completely ridiculous and potentially ingenious. Everyone can feel like they're making a difference, even if the truly skilled players will be the ones feasting on human enemies instead of the AI. Combining that with a faster pace of play and freedom of movement would create a very different feel from any other shooter on the market. It sounds really interesting.
 

suedester

Banned
Let's be honest here, anything that is AI controlled cannon fodder are bots; and killing them isn't particularly thrilling. Still, I'm sure the game is fun.
 
6vs6 with maps filled with bots sounds terrible. And calling them a different class of people and not bots is hilarious. I guess all the different types of bots in perfect dark were just many different classes of people. Lol.
 

Foghorn Leghorn

Unconfirmed Member
So in simple terms a futuristic shooter, that is very similar to how L4D worked. Hordes of AI zombies and 4 real players as opponents but on a larger scale.
 

MutFox

Banned
I'll probably get this on PC.
Just depends if there will be actual dedicated servers and if each server can be customized.
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
FPS zoning is very different from fighting game zoning. He was describing something more like the latter, where both combatants are out in the open and countering each other's attacks using their own abilities. You're not shooting down grenades in CS, but in Titanfall if you prepare right you can reflect an opponent's barrage to gain the initiative, the same way that Rose can reflect Sagat's tiger shots.

Populating the map with dumb AI for people to feed on seems both completely ridiculous and potentially ingenious. Everyone can feel like they're making a difference, even if the truly skilled players will be the ones feasting on human enemies instead of the AI. Combining that with a faster pace of play and freedom of movement would create a very different feel from any other shooter on the market. It sounds really interesting.

Yeah I suppose that's true, it does sound like you can actively fight against the obstacles keeping you from advancing instead of having to deal with them in another way, but honestly if you mention quake I'm going to think of zoning already. Just like how you can use a molotov in CSGO to block off a hall redirecting enemies down another route, or just like how you can have a good awper holding tunnel on italy. But I suppose you (and respawn) are right when stating that their zoning idea is more fighting game than it is traditional FPS zoning.

Even then, I still think counter strike should have been listed up there, CS is really heavy on movement and map awareness more than it is on actually being a good shot (though that does help a lot). Which is something they seem to be striving for, but who am I to say what they're influence by right?
 
Mobility, survivability, scale.... so... more and more like Halo. Less like COD.

Jetpacks/enhanced movement... longer time to kill... larger more complex maps... winning gunfights more on skill and tactics vs. twitch reaction-first-to-strike...

Yup... It was done years ago... it's called Halo.
 

Morzak

Member
I really have to try this out, I hope there will be a PC beta at some point. All I hear is how fast the game is and how it's a throwback to older style arena shooters. But when I see gameplay footage it doesn't look that fast and the Wall running seems to be for specific areas on the map. Overall it looks like a pretty standard ADS shooter with a bit more movement, not that this is necessarily bad but after hearing people talk about it I expected something more.
 

jet1911

Member
Mobility, survivability, scale.... so... more and more like Halo. Less like COD.

Jetpacks/enhanced movement... longer time to kill... larger more complex maps... winning gunfights more on skill and tactics vs. twitch reaction-first-to-strike...

Yup... It was done years ago... it's called Halo.

Titanfall looks to play way faster than Halo.
 

The Crimson Kid

what are you waiting for
This statement is concerning to me:

“Because you move so fast, it’s not about who [aims quickest]; it’s about who outmanoeuvres the other. I think it’s a response to the fact that we’re all getting older and our reaction times aren’t what they used to be. I want to hop into a game and not feel like every 14-year-old is going to dominate me. I want a fighting chance and I don’t want to feel I’m screwed if I didn’t get in on the first week.”

They're making a fast-paced competitive shooter, all of which depend mostly on split-second reflexes to determine the victor of each confrontation. Not only is the aiming as quick as a CoD game, they've raised the skill ceiling further by placing such a priority on player movement as well. That's not going to level the playing field. It's only going to make the difference between a skilled player and someone with crummy reflexes even more apparent. It's fine to get the drop on another player, but it won't matter if you fail to execute on your advantage. Even moreso if that player can easily escape due to enhanced mobility.

The idea of having AI teammates would help with making the game feel more alive and let players live longer and feel more accomplished than your normal CoD, but that isn't going to stop that 14-year old from wiping the floor with you. The AI buddies sound like more capable versions of the creeps in a MOBA, and creeps never made the difference in a player with better reflexes stomping you or not.

The positive takeaway from this is that they seem to be building a game where strategy and positioning are more important and vital to success in the game than most other competitive FPS, which is something I can really get behind. There's nothing I enjoy more in an FPS than getting the drop on enemies due to me out thinking them.

I guess I'm more skeptical of this game than most because their last game, Modern Warfare 2, was extremely impressive in the first 15 minutes, but as players got used to the game and I got more familiar with it, it revealed itself to be a poorly-balanced mess in several frustrating ways. I care much more about how it will be played against experienced players once people are accustomed to the game than the current state, where people really enjoy playing for 15 minutes against others who are unfamiliar with the game. Plus they haven't confirmed whether the PC version will have feature parity with the XB1 version or not, which matters to me mostly because this game BEGS for mouse and keyboard control to me. High-speed and high-fidelity FPS like Quake just don't work on a controller, and this seems closer to that than a CoD in terms of game speed and player mobility.
 
“Because you move so fast, it’s not about who [aims quickest]; it’s about who outmanoeuvres the other. I think it’s a response to the fact that we’re all getting older and our reaction times aren’t what they used to be. I want to hop into a game and not feel like every 14-year-old is going to dominate me. I want a fighting chance and I don’t want to feel I’m screwed if I didn’t get in on the first week.”

So no meaningless grindfest Perk system? Hmmm?
 

BigDug13

Member
This statement is concerning to me:



They're making a fast-paced competitive shooter, all of which depend mostly on split-second reflexes to determine the victor of each confrontation. Not only is the aiming as quick as a CoD game, they've raised the skill ceiling further by placing such a priority on player movement as well. That's not going to level the playing field. It's only going to make the difference between a skilled player and someone with crummy reflexes even more apparent. It's fine to get the drop on another player, but it won't matter if you fail to execute on your advantage. Even moreso if that player can easily escape due to enhanced mobility.

The idea of having AI teammates would help with making the game feel more alive and let players live longer and feel more accomplished than your normal CoD, but that isn't going to stop that 14-year old from wiping the floor with you. The AI buddies sound like more capable versions of the creeps in a MOBA, and creeps never made the difference in a player with better reflexes stomping you or not.

The positive takeaway from this is that they seem to be building a game where strategy and positioning are more important and vital to success in the game than most other competitive FPS, which is something I can really get behind. There's nothing I enjoy more in an FPS than getting the drop on enemies due to me out thinking them.

I guess I'm more skeptical of this game than most because their last game, Modern Warfare 2, was extremely impressive in the first 15 minutes, but as players got used to the game and I got more familiar with it, it revealed itself to be a poorly-balanced mess in several frustrating ways. I care much more about how it will be played against experienced players once people are accustomed to the game than the current state, where people really enjoy playing for 15 minutes against others who are unfamiliar with the game. Plus they haven't confirmed whether the PC version will have feature parity with the XB1 version or not, which matters to me mostly because this game BEGS for mouse and keyboard control to me. High-speed and high-fidelity FPS like Quake just don't work on a controller, and this seems closer to that than a CoD in terms of game speed and player mobility.

Yep, I still don't get how people think this is going to be mainstream. It sounds even more hardcore and anti-casual more like Tribes. The jet packs, double jumps, fast movement, it all needs a level of skill that is far beyond CoD and I think casuals will be turned off.

It will be great fun for FPS fans, but anyone expecting this to be the next CoD franchise and usher in the next system seller, I just don't see it.

I look forward to owning it on PC, where the quick aiming will be easier to pull off while simultaneously double jumping and jetpacking.
 

rvy

Banned
So, the mechs aren't mechs. The bots aren't bots. Really?

Sounds good, hopefully it gets a PS4 release, don't wanna get it on 360.
 
Man this sounds interesting as hell... like serious old school PC tribes and such vibes.
This and Dead Rising are making me seriously reconsider my no Xbox ever stance...
 

evangd007

Member
If only the game had the over the top, fun personality and tone of Street Fighter. Pilot's screaming and shouting attacks, posing while driving mechs and announcing stuff like, "GIGA DRILL BREAKER!!!"

Too bad COD kiddies think that is TEH GHEY!

You've made me really desire that someone make a G Gundam game.

Shoddy Schwarz Bruder.

This statement is concerning to me:



They're making a fast-paced competitive shooter, all of which depend mostly on split-second reflexes to determine the victor of each confrontation. Not only is the aiming as quick as a CoD game, they've raised the skill ceiling further by placing such a priority on player movement as well. That's not going to level the playing field. It's only going to make the difference between a skilled player and someone with crummy reflexes even more apparent. It's fine to get the drop on another player, but it won't matter if you fail to execute on your advantage. Even moreso if that player can easily escape due to enhanced mobility.

The idea of having AI teammates would help with making the game feel more alive and let players live longer and feel more accomplished than your normal CoD, but that isn't going to stop that 14-year old from wiping the floor with you. The AI buddies sound like more capable versions of the creeps in a MOBA, and creeps never made the difference in a player with better reflexes stomping you or not.

The positive takeaway from this is that they seem to be building a game where strategy and positioning are more important and vital to success in the game than most other competitive FPS, which is something I can really get behind. There's nothing I enjoy more in an FPS than getting the drop on enemies due to me out thinking them.

I guess I'm more skeptical of this game than most because their last game, Modern Warfare 2, was extremely impressive in the first 15 minutes, but as players got used to the game and I got more familiar with it, it revealed itself to be a poorly-balanced mess in several frustrating ways. I care much more about how it will be played against experienced players once people are accustomed to the game than the current state, where people really enjoy playing for 15 minutes against others who are unfamiliar with the game. Plus they haven't confirmed whether the PC version will have feature parity with the XB1 version or not, which matters to me mostly because this game BEGS for mouse and keyboard control to me. High-speed and high-fidelity FPS like Quake just don't work on a controller, and this seems closer to that than a CoD in terms of game speed and player mobility.

I'm sure that the AI is there more to make bad players feel better about themselves, like they are still accomplishing something, than they are to level the playing field. Surviving for a couple of minutes while picking off AI characters before dying to a skilled player will make people feel better than spawning and then dying less than a minute later to some guy you never even saw. Of course, this will cause these bad players to not realize they suck, and therefore not encourage them to get better. Respawn is attempting to hard-wire the Dunning-Kruger Effect into Titanfall.
 

Whools

Member
The bots are probably the most intriguing aspect of titanfall for me, It''l be interesting to see how they work in practice, in terms of predictability, movement and how they engage in combat. If they don't do it very well, it'll be a huge detriment to the game I'd think, but they know what they're doing i'm sure.
 

BigDug13

Member
Man this sounds interesting as hell... like serious old school PC tribes and such vibes.
This and Dead Rising are making me seriously reconsider my no Xbox ever stance...

You can't play a game like old school tribes as effectively with a controller IMO. It only needs a Source capable PC. No dice for you?
 

Abounder

Banned
This is 1 out of the 3 games I'm genuinely excited for (Star Citizen and EQ Next being the other 2)

It won't be as successful as COD was but I think it'll become the most popular online FPS even without a PS4 version
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
mechs that are not mechs

bots that are not bots

not the way it works, Respawn
 

Special C

Member
I hope the "not-bots" have an effect on the objectives sort of like a MOBA or Monday Night Combat. Maybe not as big of a deal, but it would add a layer to the game if hordes of AI start descending on your objective and you have to balance keeping them in check with getting killed by another player.
 

Phades

Member
I did but that zoning and emphasis of movement and map knowledge is existent in other FPS's as well, like counter strike and TRIBES which they actually mentioned. So really mentioning street fighter comes off as peculiar.
It is true that zoning is a real thing in tribes when dueling, but for the competitive CTF stuff, that doesn't really come into play in the outdoors at all. The pacing is just too fast for move/counter move type actions and more of a strike while the iron is hot/victory comes to the bold kind of thing.

There's nothing wrong with the "spawn-die-spawn-die loop" in CoD.

Really? Easily enabling and encouraging spawn camping with game mechanics is a good thing?

... ack my head ....
 

DKo5

Respawn Entertainment
re: my "not bots" comment - its been clarified, but what I was making sure the interviewer knew was that the AI controlled characters in the game won't be wall running, double jumping, or rodeo'ing Titans. Most people when they hear "Bot" assume its an AI controlled character that has all the abilities a human player has - when that isn't the case in Titanfall.

If you guys have any questions about stuff in this article, feel free to ask. Not sure I'm allowed to answer it all, but I'll say what I can :)
 
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