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[Sectorseven]

Either way the game industry always wanted to become like Hollywood at that is what is happening .

Hollywood has a mid tier, it's those direct to video knock offs of major motion pictures.

Would you settle for a AA market akin to this? I'm being serious here. These are relatively cheap and profitable.

 

[spookyfish]

"What could possibly go wrong!?"

In other news, developers trying to ensure a short generation?

 

[DocSeuss]

....what

I have to admit this is why I am relishing the indie games hater patrol. They are going to be so miserable this gen.

edit: Oh I think I see. You are saying you think the midtier will be more populous instead of AAA. I think it is more likely AAA is just depopulated and indies fill in the rest and no one makes anything else due to the costs and risk.

I dunno, what about games like Dead Rising: Case Zero/West, Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon, Call of Juarez: Gunslinger, and stuff like that? Ubisoft called it "mini-AAA." What if we see more of that?

Sounds awesome.

I'd gladly pay for, like, a $15 Halo FPS on my PC with significant replayability.

Hollywood has a mid tier, it's those direct to video knock offs of major motion pictures.

Would you settle for a AA market akin to this? I'm being serious here. These are relatively cheap and profitable.

The horror movie genre on the whole is Hollywood's mid/low-tier. They're super cheap to make but get huge returns.

 

[saunderez]

What is mid tier in this day and age .
A lot of games we call mid tier are are now indies , imo tech is what kill the mid tier market .
Either way the game industry always wanted to become like Hollywood at that is what is happening .

That's just it, indie games are ridiculously impressive these days, often having higher production values and just as much content as the mid tier titles of yesteryear. Consider something like The Stanley Parable for instance. Technology had allowed indies to do what only major devs could do 10 years ago and as far as I am concerned are raising the bar for indie titles very rapidly.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I still believe the Mid Tier wouldn't have died if they had been priced accordingly. $30-40 instead of $60.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

What would something like Sniper elite 3 be considered? Its definitely not AAA and also not budget or indie so imo that would fit the mid tier level.

I don't know, games like that are a weird outliers. Like what is dark souls? It ain't indie or AAA but mid tier I'd hesitate to call too.

Geez, a linear blockbuster title should NEVER cost that much. EVER.

Prepare to be disappointed.

 

[Tobor]

A good example of this is EA, who at the start of last gen released 86 retail titles in a single fiscal year, whereas in the fiscal year that just ended, they only released 11.

Now, they do have some mobile and digital output that they didn't at the same time here, but the decline in retail titles is stark.

Yep. EA has been upfront about this for years now. They announce a reduction in retail titles every year.

 

[Hubble]

Mobile / tablet gaming is taking over.

 

[Majukun]

the aaa market is going to implode this gen.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

the aaa market is going to implode this gen.

Pretty sure it imploded last gen.

 

[antibolo]

And also three times more handholding and three times less difficulty.

 

[PlumCantaloupe]

I think the term AAA was a crutch and thrown around too loosely anyway.
Companies took it for granted and banked on budget and name and stopped focusing on the game experience and quality.
AAA Gaming has become Michael Bay bullshit and many devs have snuck in and proven that it can be done better without falling into that trap.

Wow. I can't disagree though. The time has now come to adapt or die. I still believe because of these issues primarily this will be the last traditional console generation and no console (even PS4) is going to get anywhere close to 100 million.

 

[Callibretto]

I wonder what's the budget for infamous second son, sucker punch team size are not that big.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Hollywood has a mid tier, it's those direct to video knock offs of major motion pictures.

Would you settle for a AA market akin to this? I'm being serious here. These are relatively cheap and profitable.

Indies are also the mid tier thanks to tech , that is what people are not seeing .

 

[Lunar15]

In terms of production levels, I feel like indie is fast approaching mid-tier, or at least our idea of what mid-tier was a few years ago. I'm really excited about that, personally.

It really is a shame our hobby became so unsustainable for so many companies.

 

[StevieP]

I wonder what's the budget for infamous second son, sucker punch team size are not that big.

The size/scope of the game itself reflects that

 

[Coffee Dog]

Good. Just like with the film industry, there will be blockbuster mass market schlock and independent projects focused on pushing the boundaries of the form with a high focus on quality.

More attention for indie devs the better.

 

[saunderez]

In terms of production levels, I feel like indie is fast approaching mid-tier, or at least our idea of what mid-tier was a few years ago. I'm really excited about that, personally.

It really is a shame our hobby became so unsustainable for so many companies.

The beauty is as the AAA devs consolidate and fold the market will continue to open up for indies to enlarge their studios and broaden the scope of their games (not to AAA levels though) and reach a whole new audience in the process.

I mean have you seen some of the recent Kickstarters? Indies are doing incredible things with extremely small budgets, games that just 5 years ago I'd say only a AAA developer would be able to pull off.

 

[Chindogg]

If this means we are heading back to the gc/ps2/xbos era then yes please.

Problem with this statement is that midtier studios are all but dead. It's AAA or indies and clearly AAA is financially unfeasible for them to continue to spend like they do.

 

[Coxy]

What is mid tier in this day and age .
A lot of games we call mid tier are are now indies , imo tech is what kill the mid tier market .

yeah, a lot of what I'd consider mid tier games this gen only happened because of sony handing out PhyreEngine

 

[gruenel]

If CDPR can make a huge and gorgeous 100+ hrs RPG like The Witcher 3 with $15M, I don't understand what all these other companies are using all the money for. Someone explain.

 

[Majukun]

If CDPR can make a huge and gorgeous 100+ hrs RPG like The Witcher 3 with $15M, I don't understand what all these other companies are using all the money for. Someone explain.

i heard that workforce cost less in poland

 

[Heman]

I have an ignorant question (I think ). While it seems logical that with shinier graphics the development costs go up but wasn't the idea behind the ps4 that its really quick and easy to develop for ( with the whole time to triangle speech cerny gave ) thus offsetting ( at least ) the cost somewhat?

 

[SparkTR]

If CDPR can make The Witcher 3 with $15M, I don't understand what all these other companies are using all the money for. Someone explain.

Sure, but first all these devs have to move to Poland and adopt Polish costs of living, and then develop their games only on PC since I don't think that number accounts for the 360 port.

 

[Silky]

Problem with this statement is that midtier studios are all but dead. It's AAA or indies and clearly AAA is financially unfeasible for them to continue to spend like they do.

Fucking. This.

I cringe everytime someone claims mid-tier development is 'dead'

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

If CDPR can make a huge and gorgeous 100+ hrs RPG like The Witcher 3 with $15M, I don't understand what all these other companies are using all the money for. Someone explain.

That's Witcher 2. Haven't seen any figures floating around for Witcher 3.

Also Poland.

 

[Principate]

If CDPR can make a huge and gorgeous 100+ hrs RPG like The Witcher 3 with $15M, I don't understand what all these other companies are using all the money for. Someone explain.

Developers get paid much less in Poland.

It's cheap labour. Honestly they should get paid more hopefully they do.

 

[BlackJace]

I hate how there are basically only two positions on the spectrum of releases.

You're either AAA Blockbuster or a small indie. Mid tier faded away pretty quickly after the 6th generation..

I have no problem with indies though, I just wish midtier was still alive and well....

 

[Tobor]

A point being missed is that this isn't something that's going to happen. It's already happened. Past tense.

It seems new because of the gen switch, but the number of retail releases has been shrinking for years now.

 

[Killroyskbg]

The thing that bothers me is why are they doing this? Is the concept of not having the best looking game to date that terrifying that they risk everything on a single game instead of producing 3 with decent.

 

[gruenel]

Developers get paid much less in Poland.

It's cheap labour.

Sure, but first all these devs have to move to Poland and adopt Polish costs of living, and then develop their games only on PC since I don't think that number accounts for the 360 port.

i heard that workforce cost less in poland

Damn, you're right. I just looked up the average salary in Poland and I was surprised that it is that low.

 

[FACE]

That's Witcher 2. Haven't seen any figures floating around for Witcher 3.

Also Poland.

He's right: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=586441

But yeah, it's Poland.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

this is dissappointing to hear.

 

[Dire]

crash incoming?

It's not like you wake up one day and go "Damn, the game market crashed today."

It's kind of interesting reading about the NA game crash of 1983. Something I recently learned was a contributing factor was declining price of PCs. Today, for the first time ever this close to launch, you can obtain a gaming PC with specs comparable to a brand new console for a comparable price. It seems like we're rapidly recreating every single factor that led to what ending up being called the video game crash of 83. Not like it's a bad thing. It just wipes out the dinosaurs and we start on the cycle again until games once again get taken over by people in it exclusively for the money.

 

[Majukun]

The thing that bothers me is why are they doing this? Is the concept of not having the best looking game to date that terrifying that they risk everything on a single game instead of producing 3 with decent.

shiny graphic it's much easier to obtain than good gameplay and level design

also is flashier and works well with trailers,for good gameplay you need demos

 

[saunderez]

It's not like you wake up one day and go "Damn, the game market crashed today."

It's kind of interesting reading about the NA game crash of 1983. Something I recently learned was a contributing factor was declining price of PCs. Today, for the first time ever this close to launch, you can obtain a gaming PC with specs comparable to a brand new console for a comparable price. It seems like we're rapidly recreating every single factor that led to the crash of 83. Not like it's a bad thing. It just wipes out the dinosaurs and we start on the cycle again until games once again get taken over by people in it exclusively for the money.

Exactly. This is the dawn of a new Golden Age, not the end of gaming as we know it. I'm sure most PC gamers would agree with me.

 

[robertsan21]

I am a total newb to developing games, I know jack shit about it. so forgive me for this most probably stupid question.

I assume the reason why games are so hard and costly to develop today is due to the amount of work need to get the top notch graphics and physics etc.

is there a tool with preset models for walls, trees, etc? that will help developers create a great looking game quickly. and if they want their personal touch to these trees, walls etc they can just pick colours and freely change the shape of the models as they feel like?

I guess unreal engine is a tool like this that will speed up the development of a game?

 

[patapuf]

I have an ignorant question (I think ). While it seems logical that with shinier graphics the development costs go up but wasn't the idea behind the ps4 that its really quick and easy to develop for ( with the whole time to triangle speech cerny gave ) thus offsetting ( at least ) the cost somewhat?

More efficient tools are great but AAA Studios don't produce a fixed amount of content. The games always get bigger, better looking and have more content and they do that at a rate that is a lot faster than the Efficiency gains of new Tools/Hardware.

FF7 wouldn't cost what it did today, but todays open World RPG's also look a lot different than what FF7 did.

 

[Dryk]

I'm looking forward to all of the bullshit AAA devs come up with to try to make their games more mainstream to compensate for that much more cost.

 

[wildfire]

Gee, who didn't see that one coming?

The gaming industry in five years will be so different...

I'll give it 3 tops.

 

[noobasuar]

It's fun to pay $400 for machines that have a majority of their games (indies) that would run just fine on a PS2.

 

[entremet]

I am a total newb to developing games, I know jack shit about it. so forgive me for this most probably stupid question.

I assume the reason why games are so hard and costly to develop today is due to the amount of work need to get the top notch graphics and physics etc.

is there a tool with preset models for walls, trees, etc? that will help developers create a great looking game quickly. and if they want their personal touch to these trees, walls etc they can just pick colours and freely change the shape of the models as they feel like?

I guess unreal engine is a tool like this that will speed up the development of a game?

You still need people to do this. Tools are nice, but people make, sell and help distribute games. And good talent is not cheap.

 

[saunderez]

It's fun to pay $400 for machines that have a majority of their games (indies) that would run just fine on a PS2.

Because indies can't possibly bring a console or a PC to its knees? Ridiculous. When they're using the same engines as the big boys they can do it every bit as easily.

 

[Principate]

It's not like you wake up one day and go "Damn, the game market crashed today."

It's kind of interesting reading about the NA game crash of 1983. Something I recently learned was a contributing factor was declining price of PCs. Today, for the first time ever this close to launch, you can obtain a gaming PC with specs comparable to a brand new console for a comparable price. It seems like we're rapidly recreating every single factor that led to what ending up being called the video game crash of 83. Not like it's a bad thing. It just wipes out the dinosaurs and we start on the cycle again until games once again get taken over by people in it exclusively for the money.

It's staring to look that way in media create. Sure the warning sigs and negative growth were all thee. but seeing every platform below 20k really does highlight it.

 

[Trickster]

Pretty sure virtually all the franchises that register as AAA in my mind, are still gonna see releases this gen.

I mean we are still gona have assassins creed, mass effect, cod, battlefield, final fantasy, fallout, elder scrolls, gta, god of war, the witcher, uncharted, halo, mgs and so on and so forth.

And we also have new franchises like cyberpunk 2077, destiny, the division, the order 1886 and more

Maybe it's just me completely missing what AAA means. But it seems to me like the amount of AAA games we are gonna get won't change much, if at all.

 

[Principate]

It's fun to pay $400 for machines that have a majority of their games (indies) that would run just fine on a PS2.

Welcome to PC gaming. Of course you can but it's though resolution bumps AA etc rather than the develops themselves pushing I without crappy optimisation.

 

[Freeman]

What is the size of Sucker Punch Studios? They made a very impressive game and I don't think they are a huge studios.

Regardless I think that less AAA and more indies and niche titles are good thing. There are games with very small teams that are extremely impressive now, whether I look at many AAA titles like Assassins Creed and I am completely indifferent to it even if it has a 1000 man team.

AAA games are like blockbuster movies, there is only room for a limited number of them each month.

As an example, Dragon Age 2 was a peak team of about 200 with a 12-15 month development cycle whereas Dragon Age 3 seems to have a peak team size of over 400 and has had a 3.5 year development cycle.

We're taking the same number of staff that used to be one three times as many games and putting them on one third the number of titles instead, with each of those titles being astronomically large.

That is very good news if it is true, I hope they don't mess it up this time.

 

[Orniletter]

It's not like you wake up one day and go "Damn, the game market crashed today."

It's kind of interesting reading about the NA game crash of 1983. Something I recently learned was a contributing factor was declining price of PCs. Today, for the first time ever this close to launch, you can obtain a gaming PC with specs comparable to a brand new console for a comparable price. It seems like we're rapidly recreating every single factor that led to what ending up being called the video game crash of 83. Not like it's a bad thing. It just wipes out the dinosaurs and we start on the cycle again until games once again get taken over by people in it exclusively for the money.

Yamauchi-sama will descend from the videogame heaven and save us all.

Again.

 

[entremet]

What is the size of Sucker Punch Studios? They made a very impressive game and I don't think they are a huge studios.

Regardless I think that less AAA and more indies and niche titles are good thing. There are games with very small teams that are extremely impressive now, whether I look at many AAA titles like Assassins Creed and I am completely indifferent to it even if it has a 1000 man team.

AAA games are like blockbuster movies there is only room for a limited number of them each month.

To be fair, 1st party studios have a lot of benefits:

-Share toolsets
-Optimizing and QA for only one platform generally-this saves a lot of money
-Less financial risk as their purpose exist to make games for the platform holders.

 

[antibolo]

It's fun to pay $400 for machines that have a majority of their games (indies) that would run just fine on a PS2.

The PS4 is easier to develop for than the PS3, so yes there is a point for indies to target the PS4 even though they don't "need" the extra power.